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Main
Date: 25 May 2005 20:11:38
From: Gareth J Dykes
Subject: Bird's Opening - Defence
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I am looking for a reasonable defence to Bird's Opening, ideally one that
will give me a closed, positional game.
Recommendations, please.
Gareth
--
For essential news about Huddersfield Town Football Club join the Terriers
Mailing List at www.Terriers.me.uk .
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Date: 29 Jun 2005 17:37:06
From:
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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Mr. Kingston wrote:
> The title of that thread is confusing. They discuss 1.f4, which is
> Bird's Opening. But the Bird Defense is a line in the Spanish, 1.e4 e5
> 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nd4.
Mr. Kingston is absolutely right. I missed the mistake in the heading
completely, and my use of the terms "Bird's" without "opening" or
"defense" attached confused things further. Thanks to him for pointing
this out.
To clarify, for an interesting thread in the ChessPublishing forum on
the Bird's Opening (1.f4!?) and some possible Black responses thereto,
try:
http://altmax.com/cgi-local/cpf/YaBB.cgi?board=daringdefences;action=display;num=1094652439
(and don't be mislead by the name of the thread.
For those who are interested in Bird's Defense (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5
Nd4!?), there are threads discussing this defense in the
ChessPublishing forum at:
http://altmax.com/cgi-local/cpf/YaBB.cgi?board=1-1e4e5;action=display;num=1118828898
and
http://altmax.com/cgi-local/cpf/YaBB.cgi?board=1-1e4e5;action=display;num=1119919635
I don't recommend either the Bird's Opening or the Bird's Defense, by
the way, as they are both rather insipid openings IMO.
- Geof Strayer
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Date: 29 Jun 2005 14:53:16
From:
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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[email protected] wrote:
> For a discussion of the Bird's and some of the more challenging
> responses by Black, you might take a look at the "Why Is the Bird's
> Defense So Unusual" thread at the ChessPublishing forum:
> http://altmax.com/cgi-local/cpf/YaBB.cgi?board=daringdefences;action=display;num=1094652439
The title of that thread is confusing. They discuss 1.f4, which is
Bird's Opening. But the Bird Defense is a line in the Spanish, 1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nd4.
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Date: 29 Jun 2005 14:07:08
From:
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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For a discussion of the Bird's and some of the more challenging
responses by Black, you might take a look at the "Why Is the Bird's
Defense So Unusual" thread at the ChessPublishing forum:
http://altmax.com/cgi-local/cpf/YaBB.cgi?board=daringdefences;action=display;num=1094652439
- Geof Strayer
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Date: 29 Jun 2005 00:52:14
From:
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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In my database, Black scores excellently by playing d5 and following up
by treating the Bird as a reversed Dutch. If this is as good as the
results suggest, it seems like an "easy" solution for the Black side
against the Bird.
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Date: 04 Jul 2005 18:37:52
From: N & H
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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Danish GM Henrik Danielsen only plays the bird with the white pieces and
with good results
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Date: 30 Jun 2005 07:30:57
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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> In my database, Black scores excellently by playing d5 and following up
> by treating the Bird as a reversed Dutch. If this is as good as the
> results suggest, it seems like an "easy" solution for the Black side
> against the Bird.
The "easiest" way to confront the Bird (and the most risk-free) is to play
1...e6 and treat it like an avoidance line of the French played by White.
Of course, I play the French and don't do this myself, because I like the
From Gambit!
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Date: 30 Jun 2005 08:46:32
From: Jason`
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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"Ray Gordon" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> In my database, Black scores excellently by playing d5 and following up
>> by treating the Bird as a reversed Dutch. If this is as good as the
>> results suggest, it seems like an "easy" solution for the Black side
>> against the Bird.
>
> The "easiest" way to confront the Bird (and the most risk-free) is to play
> 1...e6 and treat it like an avoidance line of the French played by White.
That doesn't "confront" anything you <1500 rated imbecile. 1....e6 allows
white the luxury of playing ANY VARIATION HE WISHES.
Are you really this incredibly dumb Ray, or is this an act?
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Date: 29 Jun 2005 12:38:25
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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> In my database, Black scores excellently by playing d5 and following up
> by treating the Bird as a reversed Dutch. If this is as good as the
> results suggest, it seems like an "easy" solution for the Black side
> against the Bird.
Black should be able to equalize this way, but you better learn the Dutch
Stonewall.
I prefer the From Gambit myself.
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Date: 29 Jun 2005 20:36:57
From: Jason`
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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"Ray Gordon" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> In my database, Black scores excellently by playing d5 and following up
>> by treating the Bird as a reversed Dutch. If this is as good as the
>> results suggest, it seems like an "easy" solution for the Black side
>> against the Bird.
>
> Black should be able to equalize this way, but you better learn the Dutch
> Stonewall.
>
> I prefer the From Gambit myself.
What line of the From Gambit do you play Ray? This I gotta hear!
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Date: 30 Jun 2005 07:29:44
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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>> Black should be able to equalize this way, but you better learn the Dutch
>> Stonewall.
>>
>> I prefer the From Gambit myself.
>
>
> What line of the From Gambit do you play Ray? This I gotta hear!
You still think of openings in terms of "lines?" My god, how 20th Century.
Ever see "Demolition Man?" In that movie, Stallone's character didn't
understand how to use the "three seashells" to wipe his ass after taking a
shit. He simply couldn't comprehend it.
Which line of the From? Whichever one White forces me to play, but it'll be
the best move in that line.
Then I get a middlegame I'm very familiar with, and good luck hanging onto
that pawn.
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Date: 30 Jun 2005 08:44:52
From: Jason`
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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"Ray Gordon" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>> Black should be able to equalize this way, but you better learn the
>>> Dutch Stonewall.
>>>
>>> I prefer the From Gambit myself.
>>
>>
>> What line of the From Gambit do you play Ray? This I gotta hear!
>
> You still think of openings in terms of "lines?" My god, how 20th
> Century.
>
> Ever see "Demolition Man?" In that movie, Stallone's character didn't
> understand how to use the "three seashells" to wipe his ass after taking a
> shit. He simply couldn't comprehend it.
>
> Which line of the From? Whichever one White forces me to play, but it'll
> be the best move in that line.
>
> Then I get a middlegame I'm very familiar with, and good luck hanging onto
> that pawn.
Ok, you've made it quite clear that you're <1500. White doesn't define the
from, black does. Do you even know what a from gambit is moron?
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Date: 29 Jun 2005 09:55:48
From: Jason`
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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You forget that black is down a move.
Jason
<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In my database, Black scores excellently by playing d5 and following up
> by treating the Bird as a reversed Dutch. If this is as good as the
> results suggest, it seems like an "easy" solution for the Black side
> against the Bird.
>
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Date: 29 Jun 2005 12:38:38
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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> You forget that black is down a move.
In a DUTCH.
Big deal.
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Date: 29 Jun 2005 20:36:17
From: Jason`
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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"Ray Gordon" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> You forget that black is down a move.
>
> In a DUTCH.
>
> Big deal.
Yeah, to a know-nothing idiot like you a vital tempo is no big deal. Try
learning a bit about chess before you open your yap.
I happen to be a person who regularily plays both the Dutch with black
(Larsen type setup, with queenside fianchetto), and the Larsen Bird with
white: 1.f4 d5 2.b3 etc. These are vastly different systems. Sure the
resultant pawn-structures are the same and therefore the endgames will
generally have alot in common, but the tactics are completely different and
the games have very different ideas involved. These are not closed positions
where tempi have limited significance.
Jason
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Date: 30 Jun 2005 07:25:28
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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>>> You forget that black is down a move.
>>
>> In a DUTCH.
>>
>> Big deal.
>
>
> Yeah, to a know-nothing idiot like you a vital tempo is no big deal. Try
> learning a bit about chess before you open your yap.
Let's see, if I got to 2000 without learning chess, 3000 should be a breeze
once I learn it!
> I happen to be a person who regularily plays both the Dutch with black
> (Larsen type setup, with queenside fianchetto), and the Larsen Bird with
> white: 1.f4 d5 2.b3 etc. These are vastly different systems. Sure the
> resultant pawn-structures are the same and therefore the endgames will
> generally have alot in common,
Sounds like "vastly different" to me!
>but the tactics are completely different and the games have very different
>ideas involved. These are not closed positions where tempi have limited
>significance.
Perhaps your pattern recognition abilities and general capacity for abstract
thought aren't what you believe.
The Dutch is a shit defense for Black, which means White can only hope for
equality in the "reversed" lines.
You got a rating?
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Date: 30 Jun 2005 07:29:50
From: Jason`
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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"Ray Gordon" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>>> You forget that black is down a move.
>>>
>>> In a DUTCH.
>>>
>>> Big deal.
>>
>>
>> Yeah, to a know-nothing idiot like you a vital tempo is no big deal. Try
>> learning a bit about chess before you open your yap.
>
> Let's see, if I got to 2000 without learning chess, 3000 should be a
> breeze once I learn it!
>
>
>> I happen to be a person who regularily plays both the Dutch with black
>> (Larsen type setup, with queenside fianchetto), and the Larsen Bird with
>> white: 1.f4 d5 2.b3 etc. These are vastly different systems. Sure the
>> resultant pawn-structures are the same and therefore the endgames will
>> generally have alot in common,
>
> Sounds like "vastly different" to me!
>
>
>>but the tactics are completely different and the games have very different
>>ideas involved. These are not closed positions where tempi have limited
>>significance.
>
> Perhaps your pattern recognition abilities and general capacity for
> abstract thought aren't what you believe.
>
> The Dutch is a shit defense for Black, which means White can only hope for
> equality in the "reversed" lines.
>
> You got a rating?
>
>
Gordon, you're a complete fucking imbecile! Lots of grandmasters still play
the Dutch defense regularily so you've just proven to all beyond a shadow of
a doubt that you don't know jack about chess, or probably anything else.
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Date: 13 Jun 2005 22:31:54
From: longlivedemocracy
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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Show some analyses, Blind Thief. Exactly HOW is Black "much worse here"
? Tell it to me and the public.
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Date: 14 Jun 2005 06:21:57
From: Zyklon Dreams
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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Show some analysis as to why you think 1...h6 leads to a "decent game" for
black and i'll show you how easy it is to refute.
"longlivedemocracy" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Show some analyses, Blind Thief. Exactly HOW is Black "much worse here"
> ? Tell it to me and the public.
>
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Date: 08 Jun 2005 17:32:54
From: longlivedemocracy
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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This is correct. However, after 1 f4 h6! 2 b3 g5 3 Bb2 Nf6 4 d3 Bg7
Black has a decent game.
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Date: 09 Jun 2005 10:30:28
From: Blind Thief
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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Bullshit!
1...h6? Black is much worse here.
"longlivedemocracy" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is correct. However, after 1 f4 h6! 2 b3 g5 3 Bb2 Nf6 4 d3 Bg7
> Black has a decent game.
>
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Date: 07 Jun 2005 06:56:45
From:
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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[email protected] wrote:
> 1. f4 d5 2. b3 Nf6 3. Nf3 g6 4. Bb2 Bg7 5. e3 c5 6. Be2 O-O 7. O-O Nc6
> 8. Ne5 Bd7 9. d3 Ne8 10. Nxc6 Bxc6 11. Bxg7 Nxg7 = David-Botvinnik,
If White avoids an early e2-e3 in favor of 2/3.b3, then d5-d4 is
quite effective, e.g. 1.f4 d5 2.b3 Nf6 3.Bb2 d4! 4.Nf3 c5 =/+ (Keene &
Levy). It rather gums up White's development, since now Nb1-c3 is
prevented, and he can't play e2-e3 without forfeiting castling rights.
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Date: 05 Jun 2005 19:54:06
From: longlivedemocracy
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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Oh, please. Why don't you take matters into your own hands and dictate
play yourself?
Play something your opponent does not know about.
HOBBS-ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
1 f4 h6 2 Nf3 g5!
After 3 fg5 hg5! Black gets decent compensation. Play might continue 4
Nxg5 d5!
with the idea 5...Qd6, ...Nh6-g4
Eric Schiller has some brief analysis in UNORTHODOX CHESS OPENINGS II
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Date: 06 Jun 2005 01:38:01
From: Chris F.A. Johnson
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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On 2005-06-06, longlivedemocracy wrote:
> Oh, please. Why don't you take matters into your own hands and dictate
> play yourself?
> Play something your opponent does not know about.
>
> HOBBS-ZILBERMINTS GAMBIT
>
> 1 f4 h6 2 Nf3 g5!
2. b3
> After 3 fg5 hg5! Black gets decent compensation. Play might continue 4
> Nxg5 d5!
> with the idea 5...Qd6, ...Nh6-g4
>
> Eric Schiller has some brief analysis in UNORTHODOX CHESS OPENINGS II
--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org >
==================================================================
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress
<http://www.torfree.net/~chris/books/cfaj/ssr.html >
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Date: 04 Jun 2005 05:36:22
From:
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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I like to play a set-up with ..d5, ..c5, ..Nf6, ..g6, ..Bg7,..Nc6.
Here are two classic examples:
1. f4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 g6 4. d3 Bg7 5. Be2 O-O 6. O-O c5 7. Qe1
Nc6 8. Qh4 b6 9. Nbd2 Ba6 10. Ne5 Nxe5 11. fxe5 Nd7 = Larsen-Benko,
Portoroz (izt) 1958
1. f4 d5 2. b3 Nf6 3. Nf3 g6 4. Bb2 Bg7 5. e3 c5 6. Be2 O-O 7. O-O Nc6
8. Ne5 Bd7 9. d3 Ne8 10. Nxc6 Bxc6 11. Bxg7 Nxg7 = David-Botvinnik,
Leningrad 1938
Hope this helps,
Richard Stanz
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Date: 03 Jun 2005 04:43:02
From: Blind Thief
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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Why do you want a closed, positional game. Try a sharp, double-edged From
gambit against 1. f4
"Gareth J Dykes" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am looking for a reasonable defence to Bird's Opening, ideally one that
>will give me a closed, positional game.
>
> Recommendations, please.
>
> Gareth
>
> --
> For essential news about Huddersfield Town Football Club join the Terriers
> Mailing List at www.Terriers.me.uk .
>
>
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Date: 25 May 2005 14:01:04
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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I like 1. f4 c5 and playing for a Q-side B fianchetto, as well as d6.
The idea to not allow Bb5 pinning or exchanging and giving him the
control he wants over e5. I keep it closed; transpositions (eg., 1. f4
c5 2. e4) are your main worry.
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Date: 14 Jun 2005 00:52:07
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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[email protected] <[email protected] > wrote:
> I like 1. f4 c5 and playing for a Q-side B fianchetto, as well as d6.
> The idea to not allow Bb5 pinning or exchanging and giving him the
> control he wants over e5. I keep it closed; transpositions (eg., 1. f4
> c5 2. e4) are your main worry.
I'd agree, except that I wouldn't be worried about transpositions to the
Sicilian Grand Prix attack as I rather like playing that kind of position
as black.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Evil Incredible Car (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ high-performance luxury car but it'll
blow your mind and it's genuinely
evil!
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Date: 14 Jun 2005 03:14:13
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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>> I like 1. f4 c5 and playing for a Q-side B fianchetto, as well as d6.
>> The idea to not allow Bb5 pinning or exchanging and giving him the
>> control he wants over e5. I keep it closed; transpositions (eg., 1. f4
>> c5 2. e4) are your main worry.
>
> I'd agree, except that I wouldn't be worried about transpositions to the
> Sicilian Grand Prix attack as I rather like playing that kind of position
> as black.
The From Gambit is where it's at if you can handle the massive
complications.
--
Ray Gordon, Author
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
Four FREE books on how to get laid by beautiful women
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Date: 14 Jun 2005 03:43:00
From: Zyklon Dreams
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
|
"Ray Gordon" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>> I like 1. f4 c5 and playing for a Q-side B fianchetto, as well as d6.
>>> The idea to not allow Bb5 pinning or exchanging and giving him the
>>> control he wants over e5. I keep it closed; transpositions (eg., 1. f4
>>> c5 2. e4) are your main worry.
>>
>> I'd agree, except that I wouldn't be worried about transpositions to the
>> Sicilian Grand Prix attack as I rather like playing that kind of position
>> as black.
>
> The From Gambit is where it's at if you can handle the massive
> complications.
Play either side of a From Gambit in a one minute game on PlayChess is the
"crack-cocaine" of internet chess.
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Date: 14 Jun 2005 04:29:27
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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>> The From Gambit is where it's at if you can handle the massive
>> complications.
>
> Play either side of a From Gambit in a one minute game on PlayChess is the
> "crack-cocaine" of internet chess.
Why? It's a tame opening compared to most of the stuff I play for Black.
--
Ray Gordon, Author
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
Four FREE books on how to get laid by beautiful women
Seduction Made Easy: http://www.cybersheet.com/easy.html
Get this book FREE when you purchase ANY affiliated product!
Visit our FREE SPEECH SEDUCTION REVIEW message boards at:
http://cybersheet.com/eve/ubb.x
Compare over a dozen different seduction e-books and get SME for FREE if you
buy!
http://www.cybersheet.com/chess.html
Free Chess E-book: Train Like A Chess Champion
Don't buy anything from experts who won't debate on a free speech forum.
|
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Date: 14 Jun 2005 06:20:44
From: Zyklon Dreams
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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What is your rating Ray?
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Date: 15 Jun 2005 00:36:41
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Bird's Opening - Defence
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> What is your rating Ray?
Quit as a 1900 USCF (peaked at 2000) in 1991, been training full time for
about a year now on the servers and with software, and now play at about a
2150-2300 level (not sure what the OTB rating will be but it's definitely
going well over 2000).
--
Ray Gordon, Author
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
Four FREE books on how to get laid by beautiful women
Seduction Made Easy: http://www.cybersheet.com/easy.html
Get this book FREE when you purchase ANY affiliated product!
Visit our FREE SPEECH SEDUCTION REVIEW message boards at:
http://cybersheet.com/eve/ubb.x
Compare over a dozen different seduction e-books and get SME for FREE if you
buy!
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Free Chess E-book: Train Like A Chess Champion
Don't buy anything from experts who won't debate on a free speech forum.
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