| |
Main
Date: 01 Oct 2006 04:37:51
From: Ray Gordon, creator of the \pivot\
Subject: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
USCF needs to modernize its rules to stop cheaters.
--
Money is not "game."
Looks are not "game."
Social status or value is not "game."
Those are the things that game makes unnecessary.
A seduction guru who teaches you that looks, money or status is game is not
teaching you "game," but how to be an AFC. He uses his students' money to
get women and laughs that "loser AFCs pay my rent."
|
|
| |
Date: 09 Oct 2006 13:00:26
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
Rob wrote:
> > Certainly seems like a plausible assumption, though -- if you're
> > running a free server, it's hard to understand how the business model
> > could include paid professional anti-cheat teams.
> >
> > Randy Bauer
>
> But I agree, it is possible but improbable to expect any great level of
> oversite without a reliable revenue stream.
The first assumption is logical. It's improbable FICS's anti-cheat team
is paid because the site has only limited sponsorship.
However, volunteers can and sometimes do equal or even in some ways
surpass for-profit corporations. Consider Internet Explorer vs Firefox,
IIS vs Apache, or Unix vs Linux. FICS does reasonably well handling
abuse cases, with the caveat that you may have to wait for up to a
week. They handle cases in batches to maximize efficiency, unless an
abuser is particularly disruptive.
---
likesforests
Become a Chess Expert -- http://likesforests.blogspot.com/
|
| | |
Date: 09 Oct 2006 21:20:45
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
[email protected] wrote:
> The first assumption is logical. It's improbable FICS's anti-cheat team
> is paid because the site has only limited sponsorship.
>
> However, volunteers can and sometimes do equal or even in some ways
> surpass for-profit corporations. Consider Internet Explorer vs Firefox,
True - firefox is much better
> IIS vs Apache,
True, Apache is much better.
> or Unix vs Linux.
Not quite so sure I agree with you 100 % of that one, but its not
important.
> FICS does reasonably well handling
> abuse cases, with the caveat that you may have to wait for up to a
> week. They handle cases in batches to maximize efficiency, unless an
> abuser is particularly disruptive.
Someone I know who has an ICC account for many years, has just has his
ability to send tells disabled for a weak. The reason? He sent what
appears to me to be quite a reasonable message to someone who was taking
the *** out of him.
The person doing this was on the "free week" From what I gather, if ICC
decide to ban you for a week, you don't even get a chance to defend
yourself. ICC had not asked for his comments - they just told him tells
were disabled for a week on his account. I don't know how common this
is, but it seems to me that if one person decides you are guilty of
something, there is no right of appeal.
--
Dave (from the UK)
Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.
http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)
|
| |
Date: 06 Oct 2006 09:57:02
From: Rob
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
Randy Bauer wrote:
> Duncan Oxley wrote:
> > "Chess Freak" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > > How do you know that FICS has no revenue stream to pay
> > > for professional anti-cheat teams?
> >
> > --
> >
> > I don't know for sure. You got me there. I have talked to people
> > involved with FICS and that is what I had gathered. But I should
> > not have made that statement without knowing for sure. Sorry CF.
> >
> > --Duncan
>
> Certainly seems like a plausible assumption, though -- if you're
> running a free server, it's hard to understand how the business model
> could include paid professional anti-cheat teams.
>
> Randy Bauer
there are some websites whose entrie revenue is from Google Adsense.
But I agree, it is possible but improbable to expect any great level of
oversite without a reliable revenue stream.
Rob
|
| |
Date: 06 Oct 2006 09:48:40
From: Randy Bauer
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
Duncan Oxley wrote:
> "Chess Freak" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> > How do you know that FICS has no revenue stream to pay
> > for professional anti-cheat teams?
>
> --
>
> I don't know for sure. You got me there. I have talked to people
> involved with FICS and that is what I had gathered. But I should
> not have made that statement without knowing for sure. Sorry CF.
>
> --Duncan
Certainly seems like a plausible assumption, though -- if you're
running a free server, it's hard to understand how the business model
could include paid professional anti-cheat teams.
Randy Bauer
|
| |
Date: 05 Oct 2006 20:23:11
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
Matt Nemmers wrote:
>... Much like Old Haasie consistently repeats his Mensa model mantra --
> which may or may not be a good idea; ...<
======================
The Mensa model as it would apply to chess is not only a good idea, it
is the best way to organize a national chess federation. The HQ
centric USCF is doing little or anything for chess. The Mensa model
would capitalize chess at the basic ket level ... which is the metro
scale in most cases.
R S Haas
|
| |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 22:37:40
From: Matt Nemmers
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot" wrote:
> >>USCF needs to modernize its rules to stop cheaters.
> >
> > Suggestions? (Other than making all tournaments Bullet)
>
> Treat a tournament chess game as you would the SAT exam (where kids have
> also cheated, hmmm).
>
> How about shortening the games to 30 minutes per side, no spectators,
> cameras in the tournament halls, and no baggage/equipment allowed, with
> roaming referees.
>
> Ideally, gamies should be played over something like ICC anyway (in a live
> setting) so that spectators could watch it, and the games could be recorded
> with the rules being checked.
Much like Old Haasie consistently repeats his Mensa model mantra --
which may or may not be a good idea; I doubt we'll ever have the
opportunity to see it in action -- Ol' Gordo has never missed an
opportunity to throw his "Make All Tournaments G/30!" trolling
catchphrase into the fray, all in the name of stopping "the rampant
cheating" that he ignorantly claims takes place in USCF tournaments.
This ridiculous suggestion -- made by a non-member who hasn't played a
rated game in more than 15 years no less -- has been discussed several
times in previous threads and always rightfully been dismissed as being
completely absurd.
Gordo likes to make these kinds of one-liner trolls that have had zero
thought put into them and that contribute nothing. He does this about
once or twice a month re: this particular subject. We were about due
for one, I guess. After all, it *is* October now.
|
| |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 18:30:50
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
Duncan Oxley wrote:
>> ICC? You've got to be kidding. I'll bet more than half the 'players'
>> on ICC cheat. Besides, why pay for ICC when FICS is free?
> FICS is much worse. They don't have the revenue stream to pay
> for a professional anti-cheat team.
ICC awards $500 cash prizes for tournament winners, so a professional
anti-cheat team may be necessary. FICS has free tournaments, so its
all-volunteer computer abuse team has proved sufficient for my needs.
In 250+ FICS games I've never faced a strong computer program.
|
| |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 16:21:36
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot" wrote:
> USCF needs to modernize its rules to stop cheaters.
>
>
Players to sit on commodes.
--
Dave (from the UK)
Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.
http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)
|
| |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 07:44:29
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
On Sun, 1 Oct 2006 04:37:51 -0400, "Ray Gordon, creator of the
\"pivot\"" <[email protected] > wrote:
>USCF needs to modernize its rules to stop cheaters.
Suggestions? (Other than making all tournaments Bullet)
|
| | |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 15:05:59
From: Ray Gordon, creator of the \pivot\
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
>>USCF needs to modernize its rules to stop cheaters.
>
> Suggestions? (Other than making all tournaments Bullet)
Treat a tournament chess game as you would the SAT exam (where kids have
also cheated, hmmm).
How about shortening the games to 30 minutes per side, no spectators,
cameras in the tournament halls, and no baggage/equipment allowed, with
roaming referees.
Ideally, gamies should be played over something like ICC anyway (in a live
setting) so that spectators could watch it, and the games could be recorded
with the rules being checked.
--
Money is not "game."
Looks are not "game."
Social status or value is not "game."
Those are the things that game makes unnecessary.
A seduction guru who teaches you that looks, money or status is game is not
teaching you "game," but how to be an AFC. He uses his students' money to
get women and laughs that "loser AFCs pay my rent."
|
| | | |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 16:31:11
From: Chess Freak
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
ICC? You've got to be kidding. I'll bet more than half the 'players'
on ICC cheat. Besides, why pay for ICC when FICS is free?
"Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot"" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>>USCF needs to modernize its rules to stop cheaters.
>>
>> Suggestions? (Other than making all tournaments Bullet)
>
> Treat a tournament chess game as you would the SAT exam (where kids have
> also cheated, hmmm).
>
> How about shortening the games to 30 minutes per side, no spectators,
> cameras in the tournament halls, and no baggage/equipment allowed, with
> roaming referees.
>
> Ideally, gamies should be played over something like ICC anyway (in a live
> setting) so that spectators could watch it, and the games could be
> recorded with the rules being checked.
>
>
> --
> Money is not "game."
> Looks are not "game."
> Social status or value is not "game."
> Those are the things that game makes unnecessary.
>
> A seduction guru who teaches you that looks, money or status is game is
> not teaching you "game," but how to be an AFC. He uses his students'
> money to get women and laughs that "loser AFCs pay my rent."
>
>
>
|
| | | | |
Date: 02 Oct 2006 11:12:18
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
Chess Freak wrote:
> ICC? You've got to be kidding. I'll bet more than half the 'players'
> on ICC cheat. Besides, why pay for ICC when FICS is free?
Have you any evidence that more than half cheat on ICC?
--
Dave (from the UK)
Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.
http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)
|
| | | | | |
Date: 05 Oct 2006 02:55:06
From: Ray Gordon, creator of the \pivot\
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
>> ICC? You've got to be kidding. I'll bet more than half the 'players'
>> on ICC cheat. Besides, why pay for ICC when FICS is free?
>
> Have you any evidence that more than half cheat on ICC?
Check their toilets.
--
Money is not "game."
Looks are not "game."
Social status or value is not "game."
Those are the things that game makes unnecessary.
A seduction guru who teaches you that looks, money or status is game is not
teaching you "game," but how to be an AFC. He uses his students' money to
get women and laughs that "loser AFCs pay my rent."
|
| | | | |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 21:24:41
From: Ray Gordon, creator of the \pivot\
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
I meant using the interface at a live tournament, not playing tournaments
over it.
"Chess Freak" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ICC? You've got to be kidding. I'll bet more than half the 'players'
> on ICC cheat. Besides, why pay for ICC when FICS is free?
>
>
> "Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot"" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>>>USCF needs to modernize its rules to stop cheaters.
>>>
>>> Suggestions? (Other than making all tournaments Bullet)
>>
>> Treat a tournament chess game as you would the SAT exam (where kids have
>> also cheated, hmmm).
>>
>> How about shortening the games to 30 minutes per side, no spectators,
>> cameras in the tournament halls, and no baggage/equipment allowed, with
>> roaming referees.
>>
>> Ideally, gamies should be played over something like ICC anyway (in a
>> live setting) so that spectators could watch it, and the games could be
>> recorded with the rules being checked.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Money is not "game."
>> Looks are not "game."
>> Social status or value is not "game."
>> Those are the things that game makes unnecessary.
>>
>> A seduction guru who teaches you that looks, money or status is game is
>> not teaching you "game," but how to be an AFC. He uses his students'
>> money to get women and laughs that "loser AFCs pay my rent."
>>
>>
>>
>
>
|
| | | | |
Date: 01 Oct 2006 17:33:52
From: Duncan Oxley
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
Not true. The cheating is at a bare minimum at ICC where
they have a full time team of professionals who make sure
ICC members do not have to worry about cheating.
FICS is much worse. They don't have the revenue stream to pay
for a professional anti-cheat team.
--Duncan
"Chess Freak" <[email protected] > wrote
> ICC? You've got to be kidding. I'll bet more than half the 'players'
> on ICC cheat. Besides, why pay for ICC when FICS is free?
>
>
|
| | | | | |
Date: 03 Oct 2006 07:19:28
From: Chess Freak
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
How do you know that FICS has no revenue stream to pay
for professional anti-cheat teams? (professional anti-cheat,
I didn't realize it was a profession!!!)
"Duncan Oxley" <No@Thanks > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Not true. The cheating is at a bare minimum at ICC where
> they have a full time team of professionals who make sure
> ICC members do not have to worry about cheating.
>
> FICS is much worse. They don't have the revenue stream to pay
> for a professional anti-cheat team.
>
> --Duncan
>
> "Chess Freak" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> ICC? You've got to be kidding. I'll bet more than half the 'players'
>> on ICC cheat. Besides, why pay for ICC when FICS is free?
>>
>>
>
>
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 03 Oct 2006 09:02:15
From: Duncan Oxley
Subject: Re: CHEATING is rampant in chess
|
"Chess Freak" <[email protected] > wrote
> How do you know that FICS has no revenue stream to pay
> for professional anti-cheat teams?
--
I don't know for sure. You got me there. I have talked to people
involved with FICS and that is what I had gathered. But I should
not have made that statement without knowing for sure. Sorry CF.
--Duncan
|
|
