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Date: 19 Jun 2006 22:52:40
From: Sanny
Subject: Chess game improved further with double pawns
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Now the game will prevent double pawn formation. I hope it will give a
better game.
Play Chess at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
1. I feel the Opening is complete as it memorizes opening moves.
2. Now it plays Middle Game quite better. and understands basic rules
of Middle Game.
a- Centre Play
b- Prevent Double Pawn
c- Develop pieces to attack opponent.
Now it is time to improve its End game. Well if anyone knows any thing
about End game let me know. And also if you find the game is still not
playing well in Middle game then let me know it.
Play a game at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
I am always able to beat its beginner level.
Easy level gives good Challenge, Sometimes I win and Sometimes the
Computer.
Normal Level is very difficult. I played it once and it kicked me like
a baby.
Master Level can be beated only by Taylor Kingston. No other player was
able to win a game with Master level. But with slight improvement in
Middle game I feel it will now give tough competition to Taylor
Kingston also.
I feel Taylor Kingston should tell me the weaknesses in the game and
the reasions why he is able to win so easily. As it is very difficult
to improve a game which plays better than you.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
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Date: 24 Jun 2006 01:20:32
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Sanny's chess game slower than a snail on valium
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The program takes different time for different moves.
You can see some moves were made in just 10-15 seconds by master level.
While even Beginner level takes 1 minutes for difficult move. So the
level take longer when they find they are going to loose.
Play Chess at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
Say, Master level sees its Bishop is going to be killed. So it thinks
longer on how to save its bishop. if it makes move quickly it will
loose the match so it thinks longer to find some way out.
Recently after looking your's and Bob's games a few modifications were
done. Now Easy level will play nicely, No need to play with higher
levels. Normal is only for strong Players. And Master Level is for
those who want a tough game.
Bye
Sanny.
Play Chess at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 10:29:37
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Sanny's chess game slower than a snail on valium
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Sanny wrote:
>
> At first I though you will loose because you are pawn down (Was that a
> sacrifice? ) As that move was not needed. What did you get by giving up
> a pawn?
Yes, it was a gambit. In return for the pawn, I obtain an ideal pawn
center. After 180 years of analysis, it's unclear who has the edge.
rnbqk1nr/pppp1ppp/3b4/8/2BPP3/8/P4PPP/RNBQK1NR b KQkq - 0 6
http://tinyurl.com/pf9ww
> It was a difficult game. And if you feel it is making any wrong move
> (strategy/calculation) just let me know and that mistake will be removed for ever.
I was satisfied with the program's strength. It made no 1- or 2-move
blunders, and its lack of strategy allowed me to find a mate-in-3.
> I feel you started playing this game before the Modification. With new
> modification It has become more difficult.
I started playing after you sent your message, "However strong players
will find tough competition only with Normal/Master levels."
> If we neglect last move I see that All moves were made in a minute
> time. Is this timing wrong then let me know.
> 6,2
> 36,0
> 12,60
> 18,94
> 62,68
> 8,24
> 88,90
> 32,84
> 88,64
> 276,54
> 22,146
> 152,12
> 34,10
> 16,20
> 82,20
> 32,18
The times are probably correct for my moves. The times are not correct
for the computer moves. Moves 1-2 took less than one minute and moves
3-16 took five minutes. I was fine with that level of performance.
> 0,0
> 0,0 ARE these 0seconds correct (or it is wrong information.)
> 0,0
> 0,0
This is when it became pulling-teeth slow... ten minutes per move!!
> 0,210
> 2858,136
I waited 25 minutes for the program to move. I then left for an hour.
When I returned the program had taken a move. It's possible I took 60
minutes, but the program took at least 25 minutes to make a move.
Doesn't this happen when you play?. All my games have been slow, and
from other peoples' comments this seems like the common case.
> 72,626 (Well this move it took 10 minutes.)
Can't you program it to stop thinking after the allotted time + 25% or
somesuch? In other words, after 1 minute 15 seconds it plays a move.
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 08:18:44
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Sanny's chess game slower than a snail on valium
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Yes,
Here is the Recorded game,
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM1327&game=Chess
At first I though you will loose because you are pawn down (Was that a
sacrifice? ) As that move was not needed. What did you get by giving up
a pawn?
Secondly below is the time taken by Both. I find it was you who took
lot of time the computer responded quite fast.
Below is the time you and computer took.
White, Black
LikesForrest, Normal Level
6,2
36,0
12,60
18,94
62,68
8,24
88,90
32,84
88,64
276,54
22,146
152,12
34,10
16,20
82,20
32,18
0,0
0,0 ARE these 0seconds correct (or it is wrong information.)
0,0
0,0
0,210
2858,136 (Here you took 1 hour The computer had replied in 2 minutes.)
72,626 (Well this move it took 10 minutes.)
42,4
Source of above timing from your recorded game
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM1327&game=Chess
If we neglect last move I see that All moves were made in a minute
time.
Is this timing wrong then let me know. It was a difficult game. I feel
you started playing this game before the Modification. With new
modification It has become more difficult.
And if you feel it is making any wrong move (strategy/calculation) just
let me know and that mistake will be removed for ever.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 02:38:22
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Sanny's chess game slower than a snail on valium
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[email protected] wrote:
> Sanny wrote:
> >
> > Now only if you have very strong tactics that you can beat the Normal/
> > Master Level.
> PGN: 1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 Bc5 3. b4 Bxb4 4. c3 Bd6 5. d4 exd4 6. cxd4 Bb4+
> 7. Bd2 Bxd2+ 8. Nxd2 Nc6 9. Ngf3 Na5 10. Qa4 Nxc4 11. Qxc4 c6 12. O-O
> b5 13. Qc3 f6 14. Rfe1 Ne7 15. Nf1 Bb7 16. Ne3 Qb8 17. Nf5 Nxf5 18.
> exf5+ Kd8 19. Re3 Rg8 20. Rae1 a5 21. Re7
It finally moved!! The game finished like so:
... g6 22. Rxh7 gxf5 23. Qc5 Qf4 24. Qe7+ Kc8 25. Qxd7+ Kb8 26. Qxb7#
23. ... Qf4 is a huge blunder, allowing checkmate. I think its play
overall is reasonable, as a sparring partner for a class-level player.
It could use some strategic know-how for when the tactical path is not
clear--but speed is the key. A game shouldn't take all night.
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 01:00:37
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Sanny's chess game slower than a snail on valium
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[email protected] wrote:
>
> FEN: rq1k2r1/1b1pR1pp/2p2p2/pp3P2/3P4/2Q2N2/P4PPP/4R1K1 b - - 0 21
To be more accurate, I'm slightly ahead. I'm a pawn down but with a
rook on my opponent's seventh rank. However, the software is weakest at
endgames whereas I've been studying those so I should win. Its moves
were mostly fine--it's the speed that's the problem.
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Date: 23 Jun 2006 00:41:11
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Sanny's chess game slower than a snail on valium
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Sanny wrote:
>
> Now only if you have very strong tactics that you can beat the Normal/
> Master Level.
>
> The game is working a bit faster now, Thanks to my Programmers for
> great Job they have done.
Even I can still beat Normal level, but after TWO HOURS I'm only on
move 21.
Moves 1-2 took 1 minute, moves, 3-17 took 5 minutes, moves 18-20 took
10 minutes, 21 has been stuck over 25 minutes. Yet again, I am winning
but won't be able to complete due to your program being too slow.
PGN: 1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 Bc5 3. b4 Bxb4 4. c3 Bd6 5. d4 exd4 6. cxd4 Bb4+
7. Bd2 Bxd2+ 8. Nxd2 Nc6 9. Ngf3 Na5 10. Qa4 Nxc4 11. Qxc4 c6 12. O-O
b5 13. Qc3 f6 14. Rfe1 Ne7 15. Nf1 Bb7 16. Ne3 Qb8 17. Nf5 Nxf5 18.
exf5+ Kd8 19. Re3 Rg8 20. Rae1 a5 21. Re7
FEN: rq1k2r1/1b1pR1pp/2p2p2/pp3P2/3P4/2Q2N2/P4PPP/4R1K1 b - - 0 21
If you have programmers, fire them! Ask their replacements to LIMIT THE
PROGRAM TO THE POSTED TIME OR RESIGN IF THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE.
How fun is it to play for 2 hours then have the game get stuck?!
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 22:00:50
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Chess game improved further with double pawns
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Your points were sent to my programmers they have understood what to do
and made all needed improvements.
Play wt Normal Level at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
Now even with Beginner level, it is difficult to get a win.
However strong players will find tough competition only with Normal/
Master levels.
For me even the Beginner level has become quite difficult to win.
Now only if you have very strong tactics that you can beat the Normal/
Master Level.
It is becomming tougher and tougher every day. and soon all players
will agree with me.
The game is working a bit faster now, Thanks to my Programmers for
great Job they have done.
Bye
Sanny.
Play Chess at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 07:34:39
From:
Subject: Re: Chess game improved further with double pawns
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Sanny wrote:
> Moreover Bob will find it difficult to attack the king as the king will
> make better defence from now.
>
Oh I wouldn't say that........
[White "Bob"]
[Black "Master Level"]
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Be7 4.e5 Nh6 5.Ndf3 O-O 6.Bxh6 gxh6 7.Qd2 Na6
8.Bxa6 bxa6 9.Qxh6 Rb8 10.h4 Rxb2 11.Ng5 Bxg5 12.hxg5 Re8 13.g6 fxg6
14.Qxh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Kf7 16.Rh7#
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 03:26:29
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Chess game improved further with double pawns
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Now it would be difficult game for Bob and Taylor Kingston to win with
Normal/Master Levels
I have added two openings which will not allow trapping pieces.
Moreover Bob will find it difficult to attack the king as the king will
make better defence from now.
Play a game: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
>From now on any opening which is not in computers book, I will add
automatically after looking your recorded games. I feel this way soon
all openings will be added to the Computer. And then it would be very
difficult to win. As the computer will learn as you play and makes
better and better moves.
So any line you find is wrong just let me know it and it will change
the move in next game.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
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Date: 22 Jun 2006 19:16:56
From: Bjoern
Subject: Re: Chess game improved further with double pawns
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Sanny wrote:
> Now it would be difficult game for Bob and Taylor Kingston to win with
> Normal/Master Levels
What gives you that idea? The only explanation for that would be that
the time management has gone wrong again, the normal level certainly
takes twice as long as it claims it should.
> I have added two openings which will not allow trapping pieces.
> Moreover Bob will find it difficult to attack the king as the king will
> make better defence from now.
Like in this wonderful example
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM1309&game=Chess
12...0-0 castles right into a mate.
And talking about the the title of your post, note the wonderful
doubled-pawn caused by 5...h6?, which is just a horrible move. And while
you can fix this one line with your opening book, you simply can't keep
the computer from playing this kind of nonesense in very similar
positions unless you improve his calculation ability and/or positional
evaluation algorithm.
>
> Play a game: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
>
>>From now on any opening which is not in computers book, I will add
> automatically after looking your recorded games. I feel this way soon
> all openings will be added to the Computer. And then it would be very
> difficult to win. As the computer will learn as you play and makes
> better and better moves.
The depth of your opening book is quite shallow, but that's really not
the problem, the playing strength once the program is out of the book is
the problem, really.
>
> So any line you find is wrong just let me know it and it will change
> the move in next game.
If you insist, then the game above is an issue.
--Bj�rn
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Date: 21 Jun 2006 08:37:42
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Chess game improved further with double pawns
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Claus-J=FCrgen Heigl wrote:
> but I think 7...d5 may be actually one of the best moves
<many promising lines snipped >
8=2E Bxd5 Nf6 9. Bg5 O-O 10. O-O c6 11. Bc4 h6 12. Bxf6 Qxg6
8=2E Bxd5 Nf6 9. Nc3 Ba5 10. Bb2 Bxc3 11. Bxc3 Nxd5 12. exd5 Qxd5
8=2E exd5 Ne7 9. Nc3 O-O 10. O-O
Interesting. Now, I wish I could have finished the game.
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Date: 20 Jun 2006 23:47:24
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Chess game improved further with double pawns
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Sanny wrote:
> Now the game speed has been further improved and with your suggestions
> the new improvements make it play better.
> Today it is playing brilliantly
I played another "Master" game. Moves 1-2 were fast, moves 3-7 were
slow, but on move 8 it got stuck... I gave up after waiting 20 minutes.
Also, it hung a pawn by move 8. In my book, that's neither master-level
nor brilliant play. 1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 Bc5 3. b4 Bxb4 4. c3 Bc5 5. d4 exd4
6. cxd4 Bb6 7. Nf3 d5 8. Bxd5 *
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Date: 21 Jun 2006 13:32:46
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Claus-J=FCrgen_Heigl?=
Subject: Re: Chess game improved further with double pawns
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[email protected] wrote:
> Also, it hung a pawn by move 8. In my book, that's neither master-level
> nor brilliant play. 1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 Bc5 3. b4 Bxb4 4. c3 Bc5 5. d4 exd4
> 6. cxd4 Bb6 7. Nf3 d5 8. Bxd5 *
I'm not particular impressed by Black's fourth move (Bb4+ should be a
better move), but I think 7...d5 may be actually one of the best moves
in the position. Black gives back the pawn to speed up his development.
If Black just develops with 7...Nf6 White can play 8. Ba3 where White
has a serious initiative and Black has some difficulties with his king.
But after 7...d5 8. Bxd5 Nd5 the counterattack against the bishop gives
Black good counterplay. If 9. Bg5 0-0 10. 0-0 (10. e5? Qxd5 -/+ or -+)
10...c6 11. Bc4 h6 12. Bxf6 (after 12. Bh4 g5 13. e5 gxh4 14. exf6 h3
15. g3 Qxf6 White has problems, 13. Nxg5 hxg5 14. Bxg5 Bxd4 15. Nbd2 Qa5
doesn't look convincing at all) 12...Qxf6 plan Bg4 it looks like Black
has equalized. If 9. Ba3 Ba5+ 10. Nbd2 Nxd5 11. exd5 Qd5 12. 0-0 Be6 the
black king will find security on the queenside and I'm not sure if White
has compensation for the pawn (rather not).
Claus-Juergen
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Date: 20 Jun 2006 22:37:42
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Chess game improved further with double pawns
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Yesterday many players played with Master Level it means the game speed
has improved earlier it used to take lot of time.
Now the game speed has been further improved and with your suggestions
the new improvements make it play better.
Today it is playing brilliantly
Play at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
I am waiting to see the day when it will beat every player playing it.
(within a week or two)
Bye
Sanny.
Play Chess at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
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Date: 20 Jun 2006 22:32:45
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Chess game improved further with double pawns
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Thanks for the suggestions the game has been improved further tonight
with more emphasis on Board Position.
Today it is playing brilliantly
Play at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
I am waiting to see the day when it will beat every player playing it.
Bye
Sanny.
Play Chess at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
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Date: 20 Jun 2006 21:26:33
From: Bjoern
Subject: Re: Chess game improved further with double pawns
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Sanny wrote:
> Now the game will prevent double pawn formation. I hope it will give a
> better game.
me - "master" strength
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 d4 4.Nf3 Bb4+ 5.Bd2 Bxd2 6.Nbxd2 f6 7.exf6 gxf6
8.g3 Bg4 9.Bg2 Nc6 10.0-0 f5 11.Nb3 Bxf3 12.Bxf3 Qg5 13.Bxc6+ bxc6
14.Qxd4 Qf6 15.Qe3+ Qe7 16.Qf3 Qe4 17.Qh5+
Now black escapes from my mating attack using an illegal move. The
computer still does those a lot. I also believe it still keeps on
putting pawns on the first or eigth rank without promoting them...
17...0-0-0 18.Rfd1 Rxd1 19.Rxd1 Nf6 20.Qf7 Qxe2 20.Rd2 Qe1+ 21.Kg2 Qe4+
22.f3 Qe5 23.Nc1 h6 24.Re2 Qd6 25.c5 Qf8 26.Qb3 Nd7 27.Nb3 Nb8 28.Qe6+
Kb7 29.Na5+ Ka8 30.Qb3 Qc8 31.Re7 Re8 32.Rxe8 Qxe8 33.Qb7#
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
>
> 1. I feel the Opening is complete as it memorizes opening moves.
See e.g. the first few moves above, moves like 7...gxf6 or 12...Qg5 just
show a complete disregard for any opening principles. In fact even the
first non-theory move 4...Bb4+ is pretty poor.
>
> 2. Now it plays Middle Game quite better. and understands basic rules
> of Middle Game.
> a- Centre Play
> b- Prevent Double Pawn
> c- Develop pieces to attack opponent.
>
> Now it is time to improve its End game. Well if anyone knows any thing
> about End game let me know. And also if you find the game is still not
> playing well in Middle game then let me know it.
I hereby let you know.
> Play a game at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
>
> I am always able to beat its beginner level.
> Easy level gives good Challenge, Sometimes I win and Sometimes the
> Computer.
> Normal Level is very difficult. I played it once and it kicked me like
> a baby.
>
> Master Level can be beated only by Taylor Kingston. No other player was
> able to win a game with Master level.
That's now rectified. At least the problem with the program taking by
far too long for its moves seems to be vaguely under control...
> But with slight improvement in
> Middle game I feel it will now give tough competition to Taylor
> Kingston also.
>
> I feel Taylor Kingston should tell me the weaknesses in the game and
> the reasions why he is able to win so easily. As it is very difficult
> to improve a game which plays better than you.
Presumably he wins so easily due to ... surprise ... the weakness in the
game.
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Date: 20 Jun 2006 07:08:32
From: John J.
Subject: Re: Chess game improved further with double pawns
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Tried it. Slower than molasses.
"Sanny" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Now the game will prevent double pawn formation. I hope it will give a
> better game.
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
>
> 1. I feel the Opening is complete as it memorizes opening moves.
>
> 2. Now it plays Middle Game quite better. and understands basic rules
> of Middle Game.
> a- Centre Play
> b- Prevent Double Pawn
> c- Develop pieces to attack opponent.
>
> Now it is time to improve its End game. Well if anyone knows any thing
> about End game let me know. And also if you find the game is still not
> playing well in Middle game then let me know it.
>
> Play a game at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
>
> I am always able to beat its beginner level.
> Easy level gives good Challenge, Sometimes I win and Sometimes the
> Computer.
> Normal Level is very difficult. I played it once and it kicked me like
> a baby.
>
> Master Level can be beated only by Taylor Kingston. No other player was
> able to win a game with Master level. But with slight improvement in
> Middle game I feel it will now give tough competition to Taylor
> Kingston also.
>
> I feel Taylor Kingston should tell me the weaknesses in the game and
> the reasions why he is able to win so easily. As it is very difficult
> to improve a game which plays better than you.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.softtanks.com/chessgame/Chess.html
>
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Date: 20 Jun 2006 00:09:01
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Chess game improved further with double pawns
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I defeated your Master level. It's simple--make any out-of-book move.
1. e4 Nf6
2. e5 Nd5
3. Nc3 Nb6
By your own rules, your program gets 2 minutes per move. However, it
took 8 minutes to choose its third move. Therefore, your program lost
on time. As a sidenote, your program doesn't recognize a loss on time
as a loss--another thing to fix. Better luck next time.
8min/move x 45moves/game = 6 hours/game
Sanny wrote:
> I am always able to beat its beginner level.
> Easy level gives good Challenge, Sometimes I win and Sometimes the
> Computer.
> Normal Level is very difficult. I played it once and it kicked me like
> a baby.
>
> Master Level can be beated only by Taylor Kingston. No other player was
> able to win a game with Master level. But with slight improvement in
> Middle game I feel it will now give tough competition to Taylor
> Kingston also.
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