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Main
Date: 21 Mar 2006 09:47:08
From:
Subject: Chigorin question 4.d5 Variation
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In the 1d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 dxc4 4.d5 Ne5 5. f4 Andy Soltis in his
book suggests 5...Ng4.He states that after 6.e4 Black responds with e5
which I agree..My question is what does Black do if White plays 6.h3
first?Does black retreat the knight to f6 (which I thought would hinder
the developement of my Kingside minor pieces) or Nh6 which seems to
have drawbacks also.Any help would be appreciated...EJAY
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Date: 29 Mar 2006 20:14:05
From:
Subject: Re: Chigorin question 4.d5 Variation
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10.Nd1 seems better. White has later moves (not necessarily all of
them) Ne3, g3 Bg2 and Ne5. In the case without the King Knights' moves,
even e4 (although I've seen a computer play e4 even with both Knights
on the f-file.
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Date: 29 Mar 2006 11:50:58
From:
Subject: Re: Chigorin question 4.d5 Variation
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1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 dxc4 4. Nf3 Nf6 5.d5 Na5 6.Qa4+ c6 7.b4 and if
7...b5 then Qa5 wins a piece for Some Pawns. On 7...c4xb3, 8.a2xb3
leaves the Knight hanging. Black can still get some Pawns and connected
passed a&b Pawns, but White gets an extra Bishop (or Knight in some
variations.)
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Date: 30 Mar 2006 09:39:56
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Chigorin question 4.d5 Variation
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<[email protected] > wrote:
> 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 dxc4 4. Nf3 Nf6 5.d5 Na5 6.Qa4+ c6 7.b4 and
> if 7...b5 then Qa5 wins a piece for Some Pawns. On 7...c4xb3,
> 8.a2xb3 leaves the Knight hanging.
Well, not hanging because it's Black's move; it can't live, though.
8... b6 9.b4 leaves Black with the choice of either 9... Nc4 10.Qxc6+
or 9... Nb7 10.dxc6 with the unavoidable threat of d7+.
Just goes to show that the Chigorin requires very accurate play and
isn't at all suitable for people who want to avoid theory.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Expensive Beefy Dictator (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a totalitarian leader that's made
from a cow but it'll break the bank!
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Date: 29 Mar 2006 06:44:08
From:
Subject: Re: Chigorin question 4.d5 Variation
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After 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 dxc4 4. Nf3 Nf6 5.d5 Na5, I always liked
Qa4+; even without the two Knight's moves, this is generally slightly
better for White (although very tricky); interpolating the Knight moves
favors White even more. The Piece outweighs the Pawns.
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Date: 29 Mar 2006 22:32:23
From: Stefan Renzewitz
Subject: Re: Chigorin question 4.d5 Variation
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<[email protected] > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
> After 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 dxc4 4. Nf3 Nf6 5.d5 Na5, I always liked
> Qa4+; even without the two Knight's moves, this is generally slightly
> better for White (although very tricky); interpolating the Knight moves
> favors White even more. The Piece outweighs the Pawns.
>
I just copy & paste a game between Meins and Rabiega where I really love the
castle of black on move 12:
(2006649) Meins,G (2426) - Rabiega,R (2487) [D07]
GER-ch Heringsdorf (3), 19.11.2000
1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 dxc4 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.d5 Na5 6.Qa4+ c6 7.b4 b5 8.Qxa5 Qxa5
9.bxa5 b4 10.dxc6 bxc3 11.Rb1 Ba6 12.Ne5 0-0-0 13.Nxf7 c2 14.Rb8+ Kxb8
15.Nxd8 e5 16.c7+ Kc8 17.Kd2 Bb4+ 18.Kxc2 Kxc7 19.Ne6+ Kd6 20.Nxg7 Bb5 21.e4
Rb8 22.Nf5+ Ke6 23.f3 Bxa5 24.Bb2 Nd7 25.Ne3 Ba4+ 26.Kb1 Nb6 27.g3 c3 28.Ba3
Rd8 29.Bc4+ Nxc4 30.Nxc4 c2+ 0-1
At what point what you play different and how? Maybe 10. Nd1 or 10. Na4?
Anyway, this is - as you mention - a really tricky line and I guess you are
not giving back the piece on move 10 do you?
Stefan
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Date: 29 Mar 2006 16:37:38
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Chigorin question 4.d5 Variation
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<[email protected] > wrote:
> After 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 dxc4 4. Nf3 Nf6 5.d5 Na5, I always liked
> Qa4+; [...] The Piece outweighs the Pawns.
Black doesn't need to lose a piece, though, does he? 6... c6 blocks
the check and protects the Na5.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Unholy Peanut (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ roasted nut but it's also a crime
against nature!
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Date: 27 Mar 2006 15:29:59
From:
Subject: Re: Chigorin question 4.d5 Variation
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I always preferred, 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 dxc4 4. Nf3. Then if 4...Nf6
then 5.d5. It's not necessarily better, but Black has a bit less
counterplay.
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Date: 28 Mar 2006 21:46:20
From: Stefan Renzewitz
Subject: Re: Chigorin question 4.d5 Variation
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<[email protected] > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
>I always preferred, 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 dxc4 4. Nf3. Then if 4...Nf6
> then 5.d5. It's not necessarily better, but Black has a bit less
> counterplay.
I play here 4... Nf6 and after 5. d5 Na5. What do you play then? 6. Qa4+ or
e4? With 6. Qa4+ there exists a terrific game between Meins - Rabiega 2000
(German Einzelmeisterschaft).
Regards,
Stefan
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Date: 27 Mar 2006 20:33:18
From: Stefan Renzewitz
Subject: Re: Chigorin question 4.d5 Variation
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Hello,
I've looked up this interesting variation in Bronznik's Chigorin book. If
you don't own it yet have a look at this page (there are several links to
reviews too):
http://www.kaniaverlag.de/htm/englisheditions.html
Bronznik considers two moves for Black as 5th move: 5...Ng4 and 5..Nd7 (Ng6
is considered to lead to a (slighly) inferior position for Black). 5...Nd7
is leading to some funny positions too. Anyway, to get back to your
question. After 6. h3 he gives N4h6?! 7.e4 e6 8. Bxc4 exd5 9. Qxd5 with
clear advantage for white. He recommends N4f6 as was played in a ICC Blitz
game between Dlugy and Morosevitsch. It continued with 7. e4 e6 (he gives
7..b5!? as interesting idea - if you like funny positions, but would you
play the Chigorin otherwise? ;) 8. Nf3 exd5 9. e5 c6!? (very interesting
sacrifice!) 10. exf6 Nxf6 11 Be3 Bd6 12 Qd2 0-0 13 0-0-0?! (13. Be2 b5 14.
a3 a5 15. 0-0 which is also quite interesting for Black) 13...b5 14. Ne5 b5
15. Ne2 Qa5 (15...Ne4)....
This is one of those variations which are really fun to play!
Regards,
Stefan
<[email protected] > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
> In the 1d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 dxc4 4.d5 Ne5 5. f4 Andy Soltis in his
> book suggests 5...Ng4.He states that after 6.e4 Black responds with e5
> which I agree..My question is what does Black do if White plays 6.h3
> first?Does black retreat the knight to f6 (which I thought would hinder
> the developement of my Kingside minor pieces) or Nh6 which seems to
> have drawbacks also.Any help would be appreciated...EJAY
>
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Date: 21 Mar 2006 19:19:09
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Chigorin question 4.d5 Variation
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<[email protected] > wrote:
> In the 1d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nc3 dxc4 4.d5 Ne5 5. f4 Andy Soltis in his
> book suggests 5...Ng4.He states that after 6.e4 Black responds with
> e5 which I agree..My question is what does Black do if White plays
> 6.h3 first?
I'd go for Nh6, with an eye to a later Nf5.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Love Chair (TM): it's like a chair
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ that you can share with someone
special!
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