Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

Date: 03 Aug 2005 00:41:19
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

The idea is to air out White's kingside and then retreat the Queen back to
d8 after 3. g3.

Anyone ever try this?

Date: 06 Aug 2005 09:31:04
From: chasmad
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

Ray Gordon wrote:

<snip >
>
> I have excellent results with this system and can't find a clear advantage
> for White.

Patzer sees a check, gives a check.

Sorry, Ray! There are no GM titles for 1-minute chess!

Charles

Date: 06 Aug 2005 01:50:53
From: matt -`;'-
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

"Ray Gordon" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> The idea is to air out White's kingside and then retreat the Queen back to
> d8 after 3. g3.
>
> Anyone ever try this?
>
>
>
My funny 5 sec thoughts.
1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+ 3. g3 Qd8 4. d4 Bb4+ 5. Bd2 Nc6 6. d5 Bxd2+ 7. Nxd2 exd5 8.
e5 d6 9. Ngf3 dxe5 10. Nxe5 Qe7 11. Be2 Nd4 12. c3 Nxe2 13. Qxe2 f6 14. Nef3
Qxe2+ 15. Kxe2 Bg4 16. h3 Bf5 17. g4 Be4 18. Nxe4 dxe4 19. Nd4 O-O-O 20. Ke3 Re8
21. Rhe1 g6 *

Date: 10 Aug 2005 12:10:05
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

>> The idea is to air out White's kingside and then retreat the Queen back
>> to
>> d8 after 3. g3.
>>
>> Anyone ever try this?
>>
>>
>>
> My funny 5 sec thoughts.
> 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+ 3. g3 Qd8 4. d4 Bb4+

How about 4...d5 instead?

Computer says +0.06 for White.

Hardly a bust.

Date: 05 Aug 2005 04:11:42
From: chasmad
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

Ray Gordon wrote:
> The idea is to air out White's kingside and then retreat the Queen back to
> d8 after 3. g3.
>
> Anyone ever try this?

Beginners.

3.g3 is a useful move for White in a King's Indian Attack setup. With
2...Qh4+ 3.g3 Qd8, Black loses 2 moves to force White to play a move he
wants to play anyway.

What happened to your claim of being able to make 14 perfect moves in
the opening? You can't even make 2.

Charles

Date: 06 Aug 2005 10:40:13
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

>> The idea is to air out White's kingside and then retreat the Queen back
>> to
>> d8 after 3. g3.
>>
>> Anyone ever try this?
>
> Beginners.
>
> 3.g3 is a useful move for White in a King's Indian Attack setup. With
> 2...Qh4+ 3.g3 Qd8, Black loses 2 moves to force White to play a move he
> wants to play anyway.
>
> What happened to your claim of being able to make 14 perfect moves in
> the opening? You can't even make 2.

Just out of curiosity, what is your rating?

Date: 06 Aug 2005 12:38:08
From: Terry
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

"Ray Gordon" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:hs0Je.5944$%[email protected]...
>>> The idea is to air out White's kingside and then retreat the Queen back
>>> to
>>> d8 after 3. g3.
>>>
>>> Anyone ever try this?
>>
>> Beginners.
>>
>> 3.g3 is a useful move for White in a King's Indian Attack setup. With
>> 2...Qh4+ 3.g3 Qd8, Black loses 2 moves to force White to play a move he
>> wants to play anyway.
>>
>> What happened to your claim of being able to make 14 perfect moves in
>> the opening? You can't even make 2.
>
> Just out of curiosity, what is your rating?

Doesnt matter.

Even somebody with a rating of -500 could be right.

>
>
>

Date: 07 Aug 2005 09:40:21
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

>>> What happened to your claim of being able to make 14 perfect moves in
>>> the opening? You can't even make 2.
>>
>> Just out of curiosity, what is your rating?
>
> Doesnt matter.

Of course it doesn't.

Date: 06 Aug 2005 10:39:41
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

>> The idea is to air out White's kingside and then retreat the Queen back
>> to
>> d8 after 3. g3.
>>
>> Anyone ever try this?
>
> Beginners.
>
> 3.g3 is a useful move for White in a King's Indian Attack setup. With
> 2...Qh4+ 3.g3 Qd8, Black loses 2 moves to force White to play a move he
> wants to play anyway.

Odd that the engines don't think it's such a bad move.

> What happened to your claim of being able to make 14 perfect moves in
> the opening? You can't even make 2.

Or can I?

I have excellent results with this system and can't find a clear advantage
for White.

Date: 07 Aug 2005 13:48:21
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

Ray Gordon <[email protected] > wrote:
>> 3.g3 is a useful move for White in a King's Indian Attack setup. With
>> 2...Qh4+ 3.g3 Qd8, Black loses 2 moves to force White to play a move he
>> wants to play anyway.
>
> Odd that the engines don't think it's such a bad move.

Engines aren't all that hot in the opening -- that's why they have opening
books.

> I have excellent results with this system and can't find a clear
> advantage for White.

I'm sure you do have excellent results with this system. At one-minute
chess, playing a surprise move that makes your opponent think for a few
seconds and gets you into a position that you're familiar with and he
isn't is very valuable. In longer time controls, though, the value of
surprise is much less.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Pointy-Haired Sword (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a razor-sharp blade that's completely
clueless!

Date: 10 Aug 2005 12:05:43
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

>>> 2...Qh4+ 3.g3 Qd8, Black loses 2 moves to force White to play a move he
>>> wants to play anyway.
>>
>> Odd that the engines don't think it's such a bad move.
>
> Engines aren't all that hot in the opening -- that's why they have opening
> books.

An engine would still catch a flaw that would leave black a half-pawn down
even there, but says the position is equal.

>> I have excellent results with this system and can't find a clear
>> advantage for White.
>
> I'm sure you do have excellent results with this system. At one-minute
> chess, playing a surprise move that makes your opponent think for a few
> seconds and gets you into a position that you're familiar with and he
> isn't is very valuable. In longer time controls, though, the value of
> surprise is much less.

I don't find that to be the case either, as knowledge of chess is far more
important than the time one is given to make moves.

Fischer used to play entire games in 5-10 minutes while crushing the best
the country (and sometimes the world) had to offer.

3. g3 doesn't seem to give White anything but an exposed kingside, which is
not a good thing to have against the French.

Date: 11 Aug 2005 08:54:34
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

Ray Gordon <[email protected] > wrote:
> Fischer used to play entire games in 5-10 minutes while crushing the
> best the country (and sometimes the world) had to offer.

That would be 5-10 minutes plus whatever time the opponent had used, of
course. Which is hardly the same thing.

Dave.

--
David Richerby Impossible Lotion (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a soothing hand lotion but it can't
exist!

Date: 05 Aug 2005 12:25:49
From: Terry
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

"chasmad" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Ray Gordon wrote:
>> The idea is to air out White's kingside and then retreat the Queen back
>> to
>> d8 after 3. g3.
>>
>> Anyone ever try this?
>
> Beginners.
>
> 3.g3 is a useful move for White in a King's Indian Attack setup. With
> 2...Qh4+ 3.g3 Qd8, Black loses 2 moves to force White to play a move he
> wants to play anyway.
>
> What happened to your claim of being able to make 14 perfect moves in
> the opening? You can't even make 2.
>
> Charles
>

LOL

Date: 04 Aug 2005 03:23:04
From: Frisco Del Rosario
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

In article <[email protected] >, "Ray Gordon"
<[email protected] > wrote:

> The idea is to air out White's kingside and then retreat the Queen back to
> d8 after 3. g3.

If one is serious about the idea, then Keene's 2...Qh4 against the King's
Gambit is perhaps a better way to go about it -- 1. e4 e5 2. f4 Qh4 3. g3
Qe7 -- because the e5-pawn is capable of making another dent in the white
kingside.

--
Frisco Del Rosario
A First Book of Morphy -- http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1412039061

Date: 05 Aug 2005 03:17:12
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

>> The idea is to air out White's kingside and then retreat the Queen back
>> to
>> d8 after 3. g3.
>
>
> If one is serious about the idea, then Keene's 2...Qh4 against the King's
> Gambit is perhaps a better way to go about it -- 1. e4 e5 2. f4 Qh4 3. g3
> Qe7 -- because the e5-pawn is capable of making another dent in the white
> kingside.

I don't want to "dent" the Kingside further, just air it out a bit so that
it's easier to attack from b7 with the "bad" bishop (that isn't so bad all
of a sudden).

Date: 03 Aug 2005 20:12:55
From: Jonathan Lonsdale [despammed]
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

"Ray Gordon" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anyone ever try this?
According to my database - no. No one ever did!

--
Remove numbers from email address to reply

Date: 03 Aug 2005 20:17:49
From: Terry
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

Date: 05 Aug 2005 03:17:55
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

>> The idea is to air out White's kingside and then retreat the Queen back
>> to d8 after 3. g3.
>>
>> Anyone ever try this?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Seems like a loss of tempo. The white B can now play Bg2.

It is a loss of tempo, and if the White bishop leaves g2, the king is
dangerously naked.

Not all losses of tempo are bad.

Date: 05 Aug 2005 17:50:23
From: Spencer R. Lower
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

> It is a loss of tempo, and if the White bishop leaves g2, the king is
> dangerously naked.

The main danger here is that Black will be squeezed; White's space edge +
development keeps his king safe.

> Not all losses of tempo are bad.

True, but this one is.
The correct notation is 1.e4 e6 2.f4?! Qh4+?
White's second move gives Black the chance to play a French where White is
committed to f4. If you play 1...e6 regularly, you know to welcome seeing
an early f4 from White, because you can transpose into lines good for Black
because White has committed himself prematurely. You throw this advantage
away with 2...Qh4+?.

The simple question is where does the queen go after 3.g3 ? d8 may be
best. At h6 it becomes a target to the c1 bishop and an f5 break. At f6 it
may lose a future tempo to e5, which White will reserve for an opportune
moment, or maybe even a future f5 threatening to trap the queen with Bg5.
At e7 the queen interferes with the bishop, and ...g6 is not as attractive
after already weakening the black squares with ...e6. So 3...Qd8 it is.

Now 4.d4 grabs the center. Should Black decide he wants to play a French
after all with 4...d5, White enjoys two extra tempos with an advance
variation, 5.e5. f4 is useful to prepare an attack on e6, and the bishop
may have the opportunity to use h3 for more pressure on e6.

Just compare the position after 5. e5 with the advance variation, 3.e5.

Date: 07 Aug 2005 09:39:50
From: Ray Gordon
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

>> It is a loss of tempo, and if the White bishop leaves g2, the king is
>> dangerously naked.
>
> The main danger here is that Black will be squeezed; White's space edge +
> development keeps his king safe.

White's goal is to win, not draw.

>> Not all losses of tempo are bad.
>
> True, but this one is.
> The correct notation is 1.e4 e6 2.f4?! Qh4+?
> White's second move gives Black the chance to play a French where White is
> committed to f4. If you play 1...e6 regularly, you know to welcome seeing
> an early f4 from White, because you can transpose into lines good for
> Black because White has committed himself prematurely. You throw this
> advantage away with 2...Qh4+?.

I play the French, and find the f4 lines to be annoying as hell, which is
what led me to try this.

> The simple question is where does the queen go after 3.g3 ? d8 may be
> best.

Yes, back to d8.

Date: 02 Aug 2005 17:57:03
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Comments: 1. e4 e6 2. f4 Qh4+!!

Didn't you leave for good, just 3 or 4 weeks ago?