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Date: 04 Dec 2008 00:21:04
From: Sanny
Subject: GetClub playing like a Big Elephant.
Today again GetClub was improved. Now it will play like a big
elephant. And throw big trees to whoever plays with it.

It will be very difficult to get a win now.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html






 
Date: 04 Dec 2008 21:09:49
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub playing like a Big Elephant.
> > Now you will always hear that as GetClub is playing terrefic games.
>
> > Bye
> > Sanny
>
> Sanny, you're a liar, and you will almost certainly never hear from me
> that GetClub plays anything but painfully boring games that it usually
> loses.

I am considering Human Opponents. Try playing yourself instead of
taking help from other computer.


> You lie about the engine's ratings (as we've all told you many times),
> and you lie about how long it takes for the engine to make moves. Once
> again I played a game between Easy and Vlad (a Chessmaster 9000
> personality who plays instantly and is rated about 1850 USCF). Vlad
> won, of course, and this makes the score 2.5 to 0.5 for Vlad.

May be VLAD (Chessmaster) is a strong program. Still it took 90 moves
to win the game that shows Easy Level gave a good Challenge to that
program.


> Your website also claims that Easy takes between 30-40 seconds per
> move. But in this game, as usual, Easy took 2 hours and 10 minutes to
> play 91 moves. That averages out to over 85 seconds per move, which is
> more than twice as long as your website says. There were MANY moves in
> which Easy took longer than 3 minutes, and there were at least two
> moves in which it took more than 5 minutes.

Yes, for most moves it plays in 30-40 sec but for complex positions it
can think longer.


> Here's the game:

Below is the game with Time Taken by both players upto 69 moves..

Game Played between JVMerlino and easy at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JVMerlino: (Black)
easy: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM32098&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(easy) -- (JVMerlino)

1. d2-d4{0} Nb8-c6{18}
2. Ng1-f3{0} d7-d6{6}
3. Nf3-g5{112} Ng8-f6{12}
4. c2-c3{358} h7-h6{8}
5. d4-d5{24} Nc6-e5{8}
6. f2-f4{78} Ne5-d7{16}
7. Ng5-f3{58} g7-g6{18}
8. g2-g3{112} Bf8-g7{14}
9. Bf1-g2{28} Ke8-g8{28}
10. Ke1-g1{128} Nd7-b6{26}
11. Nf3-h4{218} Bc8-d7{20}
12. Nb1-a3{104} a7-a6{12}
13. Na3-c2{400} Rf8-e8{12}
14. Bc1-e3{328} Nb6-c4{16}
15. Be3-d4{70} Nc4-b2{20}
16. Qd1-b1{92} Nb2-c4{10}
17. Qb1-b7{46} Ra8-b8{70}
18. Qb7-a6{76} Bd7-b5{8}
19. Qa6-a7{36} Rb8-a8{8}
20. Qa7-b7{32} Qd8-b8{22}
21. Qb7-b8{104} Re8-b8{10}
22. Rf1-c1{146} Bg7-h8{16}
23. e2-e4{86} Bh8-g7{48}
24. Kg1-h1{26} c7-c5{72}
25. d5-c6{24} Bb5-c6{30}
26. e4-e5{134} Bc6-g2{24}
27. Nh4-g2{20} Nf6-e4{12}
28. e5-d6{30} e7-d6{24}
29. Bd4-g7{20} Kg8-g7{12}
30. Nc2-d4{22} Rb8-b2{10}
31. Rc1-c2{28} Rb2-b6{24}
32. Ra1-e1{30} Ra8-e8{76}
33. Rc2-e2{78} d6-d5{24}
34. Ng2-e3{80} Nc4-e3{96}
35. Re2-e3{0} f7-f5{6}
36. Re1-e2{28} Kg7-f6{8}
37. a2-a3{90} Rb6-a6{10}
38. Kh1-g1{26} Ra6-a3{96}
39. Re2-c2{0} Ra3-a1{14}
40. Kg1-g2{26} Ra1-b1{10}
41. Re3-d3{140} Re8-c8{40}
42. h2-h4{40} Rc8-c4{110}
43. h4-h5{98} g6-h5{36}
44. Rc2-e2{52} Rc4-c5{48}
45. Kg2-h2{40} Rb1-b6{36}
46. Re2-c2{30} Rc5-c8{14}
47. Rd3-f3{122} Kf6-g6{48}
48. Kh2-h1{56} Rb6-b1{20}
49. Kh1-h2{22} Rc8-c4{16}
50. Rf3-e3{24} Rb1-b7{14}
51. Re3-d3{30} Rc4-c5{14}
52. Rc2-e2{66} Kg6-f6{26}
53. Re2-c2{44} Rb7-b6{12}
54. Kh2-h1{22} Rc5-c8{44}
55. Kh1-h2{152} Kf6-g6{10}
56. Kh2-h1{94} Rb6-b1{20}
57. Kh1-h2{42} Rb1-b7{16}
58. Kh2-g1{138} Kg6-f6{8}
59. Rc2-c1{52} Rb7-b2{20}
60. Rc1-a1{24} Rb2-b6{12}
61. Ra1-c1{28} Rc8-c7{12}
62. Rc1-c2{48} Rb6-b1{6}
63. Kg1-h2{26} Rb1-b8{32}
64. Rd3-f3{152} Rc7-c4{16}
65. Rc2-a2{84} Rb8-b6{14}
66. Ra2-a8{72} Kf6-g6{10}
67. Ra8-g8{28} Kg6-f7{10}
68. Rg8-h8{22} Rb6-b2{14}
69. Kh2-h
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JVMerlino: (Black)
easy: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM32098&game=Chess

The recorded game only shows first 70 moves though the game was played
till 90 moves. You can play the animation to see the complete game.

At move 20 Easy was a pawn up.

But on move 40 you recovered that pawn.

On move 70 you got a Knight for a pawn.

On move 80 you were a Rook up.

On Move 90 you got a Queen

On Move 92 Easy Level resigned.

So I think Easy gave a good challenge to VLAD and both are having
roughly same strength. Otherwise the game would have ended before
that.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html





 
Date: 04 Dec 2008 20:57:06
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub playing like a Big Elephant.
> It sounds like you have list of possible moves for a given position, and
> choose a move randomly. =A0 When you are told what is a bad move, you rem=
ove
> that move from the list and claim that "GitClub was improved 57 times
> today"!

In Chess there are millions of positions and I cannot tell what to
move in all positions.

But still there are some rules like not to play pawns infront of King
and never take out King in miffle game.

I was just asking if any such general rule is violated.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html




 
Date: 04 Dec 2008 14:30:40
From:
Subject: Re: GetClub playing like a Big Elephant.
On Dec 4, 7:54=A0am, Sanny <softta...@hotmail.com > wrote:
>
> Now you will always hear that as GetClub is playing terrefic games.
>
> Bye
> Sanny

Sanny, you're a liar, and you will almost certainly never hear from me
that GetClub plays anything but painfully boring games that it usually
loses.

You lie about the engine's ratings (as we've all told you many times),
and you lie about how long it takes for the engine to make moves. Once
again I played a game between Easy and Vlad (a Chessmaster 9000
personality who plays instantly and is rated about 1850 USCF). Vlad
won, of course, and this makes the score 2.5 to 0.5 for Vlad.

Your website also claims that Easy takes between 30-40 seconds per
move. But in this game, as usual, Easy took 2 hours and 10 minutes to
play 91 moves. That averages out to over 85 seconds per move, which is
more than twice as long as your website says. There were MANY moves in
which Easy took longer than 3 minutes, and there were at least two
moves in which it took more than 5 minutes.

So, Sanny, you're a liar. And you know nothing about chess.

Here's the game:

[Date "2008.12.4"]
[White "Easy"]
[Black "Vlad"]
[Result "0-1"]

1.d4 Nc6 2.Nf3 d6 3.Ng5 Nf6 4.c3 h6 5.d5 Ne5 6.f4 Ned7 7.Nf3 g6 8.g3
Bg7
9.Bg2 O-O 10.O-O Nb6 11.Nh4 Bd7 12.Na3 a6 13.Nc2 Re8 14.Be3 Nc4
15.Bd4
Nxb2 16.Qb1 Nc4 17.Qxb7 Rb8 18.Qxa6 Bb5 19.Qa7 Ra8 20.Qb7 Qb8 21.Qxb8
Rexb8 22.Rfc1 Bh8 23.e4 Bg7 24.Kh1 c5 25.dxc6ep Bxc6 26.e5 Bxg2+
27.Nxg2
Ne4 28.exd6 exd6 29.Bxg7 Kxg7 30.Nd4 Rb2 31.Rc2 Rb6 32.Re1 Re8
33.Rce2
d5 34.Ne3 Nxe3 35.Rxe3 f5 36.R1e2 Kf6 37.a3 Ra6 38.Kg1 Rxa3 39.Rc2
Ra1+
40.Kg2 Rb1 41.Rd3 Rc8 42.h4 Rc4 43.h5 gxh5 44.Re2 Rc5 45.Kh2 Rb6
46.Rc2
Rc8 47.Rf3 Kg6 48.Kh1 Rb1+ 49.Kh2 Rc4 50.Re3 Rb7 51.Rd3 Rc5 52.Re2
Kf6
53.Rc2 Rb6 54.Kh1 Rc8 55.Kh2 Kg6 56.Kh1 Rb1+ 57.Kh2 Rb7 58.Kg1 Kf6
59.Rc1 Rb2 60.Ra1 Rb6 61.Rc1 Rc7 62.Rc2 Rb1+ 63.Kh2 Rb8 64.Rf3 Rc4
65.Ra2 Rb6 66.Ra8 Kg6 67.Rg8+ Kf7 68.Rh8 Rb2+ 69.Kh3 Kg6 70.Re8 h4
71.Re6+ Kf7 72.g4 Rxd4 73.gxf5 Rdd2 74.Rxh6 Rh2+ 75.Kg4 Rbg2+ 76.Kh5
Nf6+ 77.Rxf6+ Kxf6 78.Rd3 Kxf5 79.Rxd5+ Kxf4 80.Rd4+ Kf5 81.Kh6 h3
82.Rd3 Rg8 83.c4 Rhg2 84.Kh7 R2g7+ 85.Kh6 Rg1 86.Kh7 h2 87.Rf3+ Kg4
88.Rf2 h1=3DQ+ 89.Kxg8 Qc6 90.Kf7 Rd1 91.Kg7 Kg5 *

jm


 
Date: 04 Dec 2008 09:42:45
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub playing like a Big Elephant.
On Dec 4, 10:35=A0pm, samsloan <samhsl...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Dec 4, 3:21=A0am, Sanny <softta...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Today again GetClub was improved. Now it will play like a big
> > elephant. And throw big trees to whoever plays with it.
>
> This is probably a good expression in some Indian language that Sanny
> speaks, but it looses something in the translation.
>
> Sam Sloan

In India people worship Elephant and they consider them as God
Ganesha.

In India many animals are worshipped like Cows, Goats, etc as they
give milk.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


 
Date: 04 Dec 2008 09:39:54
From:
Subject: Re: GetClub playing like a Big Elephant.
On Dec 4, 12:35=A0pm, samsloan <samhsl...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Dec 4, 3:21=A0am, Sanny <softta...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Today again GetClub was improved. Now it will play like a big
> > elephant. And throw big trees to whoever plays with it.
>
> This is probably a good expression in some Indian language that Sanny
> speaks, but it looses something in the translation.
>
> Sam Sloan

The knacky color that if so shirts will satisfy to all of them.


 
Date: 04 Dec 2008 09:35:29
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: GetClub playing like a Big Elephant.
On Dec 4, 3:21=A0am, Sanny <softta...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Today again GetClub was improved. Now it will play like a big
> elephant. And throw big trees to whoever plays with it.

This is probably a good expression in some Indian language that Sanny
speaks, but it looses something in the translation.

Sam Sloan


 
Date: 04 Dec 2008 09:33:31
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub playing like a Big Elephant.
> No. It may or may not find the same move in less time now (I still have
> to wait a long time), but it simply finds the wrong moves faster.

What were the moves that were wrong and what should it have played in
place of them?

> Loook at how even when given white the computer goes down miserably
> without ever doing anything positive. The program just does not know
> whether a piece is in a good position or not. It also still gives
> material away for no particularly good reason.

Which were the places where pieces should not be moved to? I think you
played with Beginner Level, You should try Easy Level as you are a
good player.


> 1. e2-e4{0} c7-c5{10}
> 2. Ng1-f3{0} e7-e6{2}
> 3. d2-d4{0} c5-d4{2}
> 4. Nf3-d4{0} Nb8-c6{4}
> 5. Nb1-c3{34} Qd8-c7{10}
> 6. h2-h3{8} a7-a6{6}
> 7. Qd1-d3{8} Ng8-f6{10}
> 8. Nd4-c6{24} b7-c6{6}
> 9. Bc1-e3{12} d7-d5{6}
> 10. e4-d5{6} c6-d5{4}
> 11. Bf1-e2{10} Bf8-e7{8}
> 12. Ke1-c1{10} Ke8-g8{8}
> 13. Be3-g5{10} a6-a5{12}
> 14. Bg5-f6{12} Be7-f6{4}
> 15. Be2-h5{16} Bc8-a6{20}
> 16. Qd3-e3{6} Rf8-c8{12}
> 17. Rh1-e1{6} g7-g6{10}
> 18. Bh5-g4{10} Bf6-c3{6}
> 19. Qe3-c3{10} Qc7-c3{4}
> 20. b2-c3{6} Rc8-c3{2}
> 21. Re1-e5{14} Ra8-c8{6}
> 22. Rd1-d2{6} Rc8-c6{8}
> 23. Kc1-b1{12} Ba6-b5{6}
> 24. f2-f4{10} Bb5-a4{6}
> 25. Bg4-d1{26} Rc6-b6{8}
> 26. Kb1-a1{6} Ba4-b5{10}
> 27. Bd1-g4{18} Bb5-c4{6}
> 28. Bg4-f3{8} Rc3-a3{6}
> 29. c2-c3{0} Ra3-c3{4}
> 30. Re5-e1{8} Rb6-b4{12}
> 31. Bf3-g4{12} Rb4-a4{8}
> 32. f4-f5{20} g6-f5{4}
> 33. Bg4-d1{18} Ra4-b4{10}
> 34. Bd1-h5{12} Rc3-a3{6}
> 35. Re1-c1{20} e6-e5{12}
> 36. Rc1-c2{12} Kg8-g7{8}
> 37. Rd2-f2{6} f5-f4{4}
> 38. Rf2-f3{12} Ra3-f3{8}
> 39. Bh5-f3{12} e5-e4{2}
> 40. Bf3-d1{10} Kg7-f6{6}
> 41. h3-h4{8} Kf6-e5{4}
> 42. Bd1-g4{8} f7-f5{4}
> 43. Bg4-h5{10} a5-a4{4}
> 44. Rc2-f2{8} a4-a3{6}
> 45. Rf2-d2{8} Bc4-d3{6}
> 46. Rd2-d1{10} Rb4-b2{4}
> 47. Bh5-f3{6} Bd3-c4{6}
> 48. Rd1-g1{14} Rb2-a2{6}
> 49. Ka1-b1{0} e4-f3{4}
> 50. g2-f3{6} Ra2-f2{8}
> 51. Rg1-c1{18} a3-a2{10}
> 52. Kb1-a1{0} Rf2-f3{4}
> 53. Rc1-h1{6} Rf3-e3{10}
> 54. Rh1-d1{12} f4-f3{4}
> 55. Rd1-f1{26} Bc4-f1{8}
> 56. Ka1-a2{14} Bf1-c4{4}
> 57. Ka2-b1{2}

Well Played but you took 57 moves to win against Beginner Level. Try
Easy Level and that will be tougher.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html



  
Date: 04 Dec 2008 17:45:32
From: Bob Campbell
Subject: Re: GetClub playing like a Big Elephant.
"Sanny" <softtanks@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:3ab4378e-48c7-4c5b-840b-40e3c2a8e853@c36g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> What were the moves that were wrong and what should it have played in
> place of them?
> Which were the places where pieces should not be moved to?

The fact that you always have to ask these questions shows how clueless you
are. You should be able to tell what are good moves and what are terrible
moves.

It sounds like you have list of possible moves for a given position, and
choose a move randomly. When you are told what is a bad move, you remove
that move from the list and claim that "GitClub was improved 57 times
today"!



 
Date: 04 Dec 2008 07:54:08
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub playing like a Big Elephant.
> > Today again GetClub was improved. Now it will play like a big
> > elephant. And throw big trees to whoever plays with it.
>
> An elephant is a good comparison. =A0 Bloated, slow, and hard to turn aro=
und
> once it blunders down the wrong path.

Ok then try to get a win Lets see if you are successful and show us
the recorded game.

Start a Chess Game: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

> > It will be very difficult to get a win now.
>
> Gee, we've never heard THAT one before.

Now you will always hear that as GetClub is playing terrefic games.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html



  
Date: 04 Dec 2008 18:18:49
From: Bjoern
Subject: Re: GetClub playing like a Big Elephant.
Sanny schrieb:
>>> Today again GetClub was improved. Now it will play like a big
>>> elephant. And throw big trees to whoever plays with it.
>> An elephant is a good comparison. Bloated, slow, and hard to turn around
>> once it blunders down the wrong path.
>
> Ok then try to get a win Lets see if you are successful and show us
> the recorded game.

See below. I even took black and let the program play white.

> Start a Chess Game: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
>>> It will be very difficult to get a win now.
>> Gee, we've never heard THAT one before.
>
> Now you will always hear that as GetClub is playing terrefic games.


No. It may or may not find the same move in less time now (I still have
to wait a long time), but it simply finds the wrong moves faster.

Loook at how even when given white the computer goes down miserably
without ever doing anything positive. The program just does not know
whether a piece is in a good position or not. It also still gives
material away for no particularly good reason.

1. e2-e4{0} c7-c5{10}
2. Ng1-f3{0} e7-e6{2}
3. d2-d4{0} c5-d4{2}
4. Nf3-d4{0} Nb8-c6{4}
5. Nb1-c3{34} Qd8-c7{10}
6. h2-h3{8} a7-a6{6}
7. Qd1-d3{8} Ng8-f6{10}
8. Nd4-c6{24} b7-c6{6}
9. Bc1-e3{12} d7-d5{6}
10. e4-d5{6} c6-d5{4}
11. Bf1-e2{10} Bf8-e7{8}
12. Ke1-c1{10} Ke8-g8{8}
13. Be3-g5{10} a6-a5{12}
14. Bg5-f6{12} Be7-f6{4}
15. Be2-h5{16} Bc8-a6{20}
16. Qd3-e3{6} Rf8-c8{12}
17. Rh1-e1{6} g7-g6{10}
18. Bh5-g4{10} Bf6-c3{6}
19. Qe3-c3{10} Qc7-c3{4}
20. b2-c3{6} Rc8-c3{2}
21. Re1-e5{14} Ra8-c8{6}
22. Rd1-d2{6} Rc8-c6{8}
23. Kc1-b1{12} Ba6-b5{6}
24. f2-f4{10} Bb5-a4{6}
25. Bg4-d1{26} Rc6-b6{8}
26. Kb1-a1{6} Ba4-b5{10}
27. Bd1-g4{18} Bb5-c4{6}
28. Bg4-f3{8} Rc3-a3{6}
29. c2-c3{0} Ra3-c3{4}
30. Re5-e1{8} Rb6-b4{12}
31. Bf3-g4{12} Rb4-a4{8}
32. f4-f5{20} g6-f5{4}
33. Bg4-d1{18} Ra4-b4{10}
34. Bd1-h5{12} Rc3-a3{6}
35. Re1-c1{20} e6-e5{12}
36. Rc1-c2{12} Kg8-g7{8}
37. Rd2-f2{6} f5-f4{4}
38. Rf2-f3{12} Ra3-f3{8}
39. Bh5-f3{12} e5-e4{2}
40. Bf3-d1{10} Kg7-f6{6}
41. h3-h4{8} Kf6-e5{4}
42. Bd1-g4{8} f7-f5{4}
43. Bg4-h5{10} a5-a4{4}
44. Rc2-f2{8} a4-a3{6}
45. Rf2-d2{8} Bc4-d3{6}
46. Rd2-d1{10} Rb4-b2{4}
47. Bh5-f3{6} Bd3-c4{6}
48. Rd1-g1{14} Rb2-a2{6}
49. Ka1-b1{0} e4-f3{4}
50. g2-f3{6} Ra2-f2{8}
51. Rg1-c1{18} a3-a2{10}
52. Kb1-a1{0} Rf2-f3{4}
53. Rc1-h1{6} Rf3-e3{10}
54. Rh1-d1{12} f4-f3{4}
55. Rd1-f1{26} Bc4-f1{8}
56. Ka1-a2{14} Bf1-c4{4}
57. Ka2-b1{2}


 
Date: 04 Dec 2008 07:31:06
From: Bob Campbell
Subject: Re: GetClub playing like a Big Elephant.
"Sanny" <softtanks@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:7f8f1cf5-c22d-4882-9cd0-b7b6a1b6a08b@q30g2000prq.googlegroups.com...
> Today again GetClub was improved. Now it will play like a big
> elephant. And throw big trees to whoever plays with it.

An elephant is a good comparison. Bloated, slow, and hard to turn around
once it blunders down the wrong path.

> It will be very difficult to get a win now.

Gee, we've never heard THAT one before.