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Date: 23 Nov 2008 05:18:05
From: Sanny
Subject: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.
Help Bot was able to trap the Rook of Easy Level and then win the
game.

28th move Rxb3 is this sacrifice of Rook for a Knight a good move?

Game Played between help bot and easy at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
easy: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM30982&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(easy) -- (help bot)

1. e2-e4{0} c7-c5{6}
2. Nb1-c3{134} a7-a6{22}
3. Ng1-f3{322} g7-g6{40}
4. Bf1-c4{74} Bf8-g7{44}
5. Nc3-d5{60} b7-b5{48}
6. Bc4-d3{322} Bc8-b7{30}
7. c2-c4{80} e7-e6{62}
8. Nd5-e3{48} Ng8-e7{50}
9. Ke1-g1{48} Ke8-g8{18}
10. Nf3-g5{76} h7-h6{66}
11. Ng5-f3{20} d7-d5{44}
12. e4-d5{40} e6-d5{940}
13. c4-d5{148} Ne7-d5{50}
14. Rf1-e1{62} Nd5-f4{470}
15. Bd3-c2{0} Nf4-d3{64}
16. Bc2-d3{134} Qd8-d3{14}
17. Kg1-h1{96} Nb8-d7{72}
18. h2-h3{248} Ra8-d8{34}
19. Re1-f1{52} Rf8-e8{104}
20. Rf1-g1{54} Nd7-f8{58}
21. a2-a3{102} c5-c4{62}
22. Ne3-g4{34} Nf8-e6{148}
23. Rg1-e1{46} Ne6-c5{202}
24. Re1-e8{0} Rd8-e8{4}
25. a3-a4{24} Bb7-f3{170}
26. g2-f3{0} Nc5-b3{72}
27. Ra1-a3{20} b5-b4{8}
28. Ra3-b3{20} c4-b3{10}
29. Ng4-e3{124} Re8-c8{58}
30. f3-f4{212} Kg8-h7{88}
31. f4-f5{114} g6-f5{40}
32. Kh1-h2{42} f5-f4{40}
33. Ne3-g4{28} f7-f5{36}
34. Ng4-h6{28} Kh7-h6{46}
35. h3-h4{144} f4-f3{106}
36. Qd1-g1{152} Bg7-e5{60}
37. Kh2-h3{88} Be5-f4{66}
38. Qg1-h1{94} Rc8-g8{66}
39. a4-a5{32} Bf4-c7{54}
40. Qh1-e1{16}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
easy: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM30982&game=Chess

Was GetClub playing stronger than earlier? What do Help Bot think
about the recent strength?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html




 
Date: 27 Nov 2008 04:31:06
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.
On Nov 27, 4:09=A0am, Martin Brown <

 
Date: 26 Nov 2008 08:22:51
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.
> =A0 Even in the game we have been
> discussing, against GetClub's Easy level,
> I could not calculate the forced mate--
> though Rybka saw it instantly, and yes,
> even GetClub's Easy level saw it, for it
> stopped the game and credited me with
> the win. =A0

Thats because now GetClub is much improved.

Now Beginner Level can see Mate in 10

Easy Level can see Mate in 12

Normal Level can see Mate in 14

Play with Easy Level and you will get a quick & Strong game. Playing
higher level will take longer.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html




 
Date: 26 Nov 2008 08:20:16
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.
> I started a new game against the Advance
> level because the ratings of all the other levels
> are "not worth shooting at". Of course, it just
> won't move. (Maybe I should just play Baby
> level and run it down to a zero rating?)

Worst thing to play with Advance Level. It will think upto 6 hours on
some moves. And for most moves take 2-3 hours / move.

I think you should have played with Master Level instead. which playes
4 times faster than Advance Level.

Incase you are unable to complete the game inform me I will delete
this game So that you may start a new game.

With recent improvements Now, Even Easy level will play a strong game.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


 
Date: 26 Nov 2008 06:54:31
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.
On Nov 26, 9:27=A0am, Martin Brown <

  
Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.


 
Date: 26 Nov 2008 05:54:00
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.
On Nov 26, 4:15=A0am, Martin Brown <

  
Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.


 
Date: 25 Nov 2008 10:08:43
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.
> a later ...Nc6, White can take on c6 and
> no matter which way Black recaptures,
> there is a gaping hole on b6 and/or the
> Black King is exposed in the center
> (after Qxd8+).
>
> =A0 Rest assured, no "improvement" is
> necessary, for I will try to remember
> not to make this same mistake again.

Simmilar mistakes were done by GetClub now penalty is given for weak
moves. Play a few games with Easy Level and lets see if the new
improvements make any difference in style of play of GetClub.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html




 
Date: 25 Nov 2008 09:01:11
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.
On Nov 25, 11:11=A0am, Sanny <softta...@hotmail.com > wrote:

> > =A0 Any idea why your program plays silly
> > moves like R-g1, R-f1, then R back to e1?
>
> It had no good move So it played Rook from here to there.


What about opening the a-file? That's the
file on which White's Rook already sat. As
MB already noted, there were /several/
opportunities for White to activate the Rook
by playing p-a4, but instead the GC program
just messed around, and then ultimately
sacrificed the exchange on b3.


> > =A0 As for what was the correct move, MB
> > insists that my second move, ...a6, is
> > inferior due to the normal reply 2. d4 by
> > White. =A0 Apparently, the weakness of the
> > b6 square is a tactical problem /against
> > strong play/ (hypothetically speaking, as
> > we are talking about GC).
>
> This problem was corrected. Now GetClub will not create weakness at
> b6.
>
> Now, It will play stronger as it will avoid weakness in pawn
> formations.


The weakness at b6 was mine, not GetClub's.
By playing a very early p-a6, I weakened the b6
square and made it awkward to develop all my
pieces smoothly after my subsequent p-g6.

I ran this sequence through Rybka and she
went for an unsound pawn sacrifice, something
along these lines:

1. e4 c5

2. Nc3 a6

3. Nf3 g6

4. d4 Bg7 (Rybka's choice)

5. dc Bxc3+

6. bxc3 Qa5


White is clearly on top, in spite of the
ugly tripled pawns.

A major issue is that after 4. d4 cd, if
Black attempts to develop normally with
a later ...Nc6, White can take on c6 and
no matter which way Black recaptures,
there is a gaping hole on b6 and/or the
Black King is exposed in the center
(after Qxd8+).

Rest assured, no "improvement" is
necessary, for I will try to remember
not to make this same mistake again.


-- help bot


 
Date: 25 Nov 2008 08:11:47
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.
> =A0 Any idea why your program plays silly
> moves like R-g1, R-f1, then R back to e1?

It had no good move So it played Rook from here to there.

> =A0 As for what was the correct move, MB
> insists that my second move, ...a6, is
> inferior due to the normal reply 2. d4 by
> White. =A0 Apparently, the weakness of the
> b6 square is a tactical problem /against
> strong play/ (hypothetically speaking, as
> we are talking about GC).

This problem was corrected. Now GetClub will not create weakness at
b6.

Now, It will play stronger as it will avoid weakness in pawn
formations.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


 
Date: 24 Nov 2008 22:58:33
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.
On Nov 25, 1:31=A0am, Sanny <softta...@hotmail.com > wrote:

> > no longer graphs the game-- a handy device
> > for pinpointing GetClub's most atrocious
> > blunders; I used to be able to just glance at
> > the graph, and then jump to the point in a
> > game where "a mountain" was born, or to
> > where it fell into "the ocean", speaking in
> > terms of position score.

> Which were the moves where you see Mountains and Oceans for GetClub
> Moves?
>
> Where were the points where GetClub made Tactical Error and how many
> points were lost by that move and what was the correct move?


As I just explained, my system no longer
shows the game's progress on the graph;
the graphing area in the Arena interface is
still there, but it is now always *blank*.

Several times in this game the GetClub
program hopped its pieces around
aimlessly, which gave me "free moves"
in which to get ahead in development.
I "cashed in" by doubling White's pawns
at f3, and by bouncing a Knight into the
hole at b3, which won material by force.

Any idea why your program plays silly
moves like R-g1, R-f1, then R back to e1?

As for what was the correct move, MB
insists that my second move, ...a6, is
inferior due to the normal reply 2. d4 by
White. Apparently, the weakness of the
b6 square is a tactical problem /against
strong play/ (hypothetically speaking, as
we are talking about GC).
This ...a6 problem has come up before,
but I simply forgot. Indeed, I was not
focused on playing the theoretically best
moves with a home-brewed TN stinger
at the end; that is a game for the book
monkeys.


-- help bot



 
Date: 24 Nov 2008 22:31:33
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.
> no longer graphs the game-- a handy device
> for pinpointing GetClub's most atrocious
> blunders; I used to be able to just glance at
> the graph, and then jump to the point in a
> game where "a mountain" was born, or to
> where it fell into "the ocean", speaking in
> terms of position score.

Which were the moves where you see Mountains and Oceans for GetClub
Moves?

Where were the points where GetClub made Tactical Error and how many
points were lost by that move and what was the correct move?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


 
Date: 24 Nov 2008 18:54:35
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.
On Nov 24, 9:10=A0am, Martin Brown <

  
Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.


 
Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.


 
Date: 23 Nov 2008 09:45:24
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Please Analyze this game between Help Bot and Easy Level.
On Nov 23, 8:18=A0am, Sanny <softta...@hotmail.com > wrote:

> Help Bot was able to trap the Rook of Easy Level and then win the
> game.
>
> 28th move Rxb3 is this sacrifice of Rook for a Knight a good move?


The alternative, 28. Ra2, loses even more
material (to ...Qb1).


> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM30982&game=
=3DChess
>
> Was GetClub playing stronger than earlier? What do Help Bot think
> about the recent strength?


The funny Knight moves which lose time
seem to make it fairly easy for me to win.

I expect there is a bonus added to the
position score for "attacking moves", and
this is backfiring because the "attacks"
are ill-timed and toothless. Basically, it
is not wise to "attack" like this with just
one piece for the target will be easily
defended, the attacker driven back with
a loss of time. These losses of time, or
tempos, can add up to significant gains
for the opponent.


-- help bot