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Date: 11 Feb 2005 15:29:15
From: chuck
Subject: try this which move is better ? Nf8 or Nh8
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3r2k1/2nqprb1/1p2p1Np/p2nP3/3pBP2/PP4RQ/1B5P/6RK w - - 0 1
the book i get this from said Nf8 but I found Nh8 is better what does
you think
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Date: 13 Feb 2005 14:03:20
From: bruno de baenst
Subject: Re: try this which move is better ? Nf8 or Nh8
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Both lead to resign in 1 so they are equal
"chuck" <[email protected] > schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> 3r2k1/2nqprb1/1p2p1Np/p2nP3/3pBP2/PP4RQ/1B5P/6RK w - - 0 1
>
> the book i get this from said Nf8 but I found Nh8 is better what does
> you think
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Date: 11 Feb 2005 14:37:06
From: Ron
Subject: Re: try this which move is better ? Nf8 or Nh8
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In article <[email protected] >,
chuck <[email protected] > wrote:
> 3r2k1/2nqprb1/1p2p1Np/p2nP3/3pBP2/PP4RQ/1B5P/6RK w - - 0 1
>
> the book i get this from said Nf8 but I found Nh8 is better what does
> you think
Nh8 wins decisively:
1.Nh8 Nxf4 (Kxh8 is mate in three. Rf8/f6/f5 is mate in two.) 2.Qxh6 Nh5
3.Qxh5 mates in four.
but Nf8 also wins decisively:
1.Nf8 Kxf8 2.Qxh6 and how does black meet the threat of Qh8+ & Rg8 mate?
2.... Ne8 3.Rxf4 3.Qxg7+, Bg6+, and Qg8 mate.
Since taking with the rook right away also clearly loses, the only
alternative is a queen retreat.
1.Nf8 Qc6 2.Qxh6 and now Kxf8 3.Qh8+ should be a familiar theme, but
black doesn't have anything else. 2...Rxf8 Rxg7 & Qxg7. 2....Ne8 3.Qh7+
& Qh8!.
I don't see how you can, therefore, call either of these moves "better"
than the other although I found the win after Nh8 easier to see.
-Ron
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Date: 11 Feb 2005 17:08:55
From: chuck
Subject: Re: try this which move is better ? Nf8 or Nh8
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Ron wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> chuck <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>3r2k1/2nqprb1/1p2p1Np/p2nP3/3pBP2/PP4RQ/1B5P/6RK w - - 0 1
>>
>>the book i get this from said Nf8 but I found Nh8 is better what does
>>you think
>
>
> Nh8 wins decisively:
>
> 1.Nh8 Nxf4 (Kxh8 is mate in three. Rf8/f6/f5 is mate in two.) 2.Qxh6 Nh5
> 3.Qxh5 mates in four.
>
> but Nf8 also wins decisively:
>
> 1.Nf8 Kxf8 2.Qxh6 and how does black meet the threat of Qh8+ & Rg8 mate?
>
> 2.... Ne8 3.Rxf4 3.Qxg7+, Bg6+, and Qg8 mate.
>
> Since taking with the rook right away also clearly loses, the only
> alternative is a queen retreat.
>
> 1.Nf8 Qc6 2.Qxh6 and now Kxf8 3.Qh8+ should be a familiar theme, but
> black doesn't have anything else. 2...Rxf8 Rxg7 & Qxg7. 2....Ne8 3.Qh7+
> & Qh8!.
>
> I don't see how you can, therefore, call either of these moves "better"
> than the other although I found the win after Nh8 easier to see.
>
> -Ron
i think Nf6 by white will stop the move Nf8 a little bit longer but Nh8
is the main move but the book i readed say Nf8 instead
but what do think it was a russian book i found alot of mistake in this
book i guess they don't proofread.
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Date: 12 Feb 2005 16:27:10
From: Antonio Torrecillas
Subject: Re: try this which move is better ? Nf8 or Nh8
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En/na chuck ha escrit:
> Ron wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> chuck <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> 3r2k1/2nqprb1/1p2p1Np/p2nP3/3pBP2/PP4RQ/1B5P/6RK w - - 0 1
>>>
>>> the book i get this from said Nf8 but I found Nh8 is better what does
>>> you think
>>
>> Nh8 wins decisively:
>>
>> but Nf8 also wins decisively:
>
> i think Nf6 by white will stop the move Nf8 a little bit longer but Nh8
> is the main move but the book i readed say Nf8 instead
> but what do think it was a russian book i found alot of mistake in this
> book i guess they don't proofread.
Hello,
I suppose that position was taken from an actual game. And I think too
that white was not worried about 1.Nf8 Nf6. Those defences were only
considered by computers because any player would resign before
continuing with 1...Nf6 (and in this case I, as black, would not check
if white has any move more powerful than 2.Nxd7)
AT
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Date: 13 Feb 2005 09:31:58
From: Few Good Chessmen
Subject: Re: try this which move is better ? Nf8 or Nh8
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"Antonio Torrecillas" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> En/na chuck ha escrit:
>
> > Ron wrote:
> >
> >> In article <[email protected]>,
> >> chuck <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> 3r2k1/2nqprb1/1p2p1Np/p2nP3/3pBP2/PP4RQ/1B5P/6RK w - - 0 1
> >>>
> >>> the book i get this from said Nf8 but I found Nh8 is better what does
> >>> you think
> >>
> >> Nh8 wins decisively:
> >>
> >> but Nf8 also wins decisively:
> >
> > i think Nf6 by white will stop the move Nf8 a little bit longer but Nh8
> > is the main move but the book i readed say Nf8 instead
> > but what do think it was a russian book i found alot of mistake in this
> > book i guess they don't proofread.
Perhap the Russian author found the simplicity of Nf8 mating threats
(compared to Nh8) was decisive enough for the audiences and on Black.
>
> Hello,
>
> I suppose that position was taken from an actual game. And I think too
> that white was not worried about 1.Nf8 Nf6. Those defences were only
> considered by computers because any player would resign before
> continuing with 1...Nf6 (and in this case I, as black, would not check
> if white has any move more powerful than 2.Nxd7)
You don't need to put computer on 1. ... Nf6 when obivously it could be
exchanged by the e5-Pawn leading to more pressure (if not by similiar mating
difficulties with 1. Nh8 as understood by White) onto the trapped Black
King.
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Date: 11 Feb 2005 18:05:42
From: Ron
Subject: Re: try this which move is better ? Nf8 or Nh8
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In article <[email protected] >,
chuck <[email protected] > wrote:
> > 1.Nf8 Kxf8 2.Qxh6 and how does black meet the threat of Qh8+ & Rg8 mate?
> >
> > 2.... Ne8 3.Rxf4 3.Qxg7+, Bg6+, and Qg8 mate.
> >
> > Since taking with the rook right away also clearly loses, the only
> > alternative is a queen retreat.
> >
> > 1.Nf8 Qc6 2.Qxh6 and now Kxf8 3.Qh8+ should be a familiar theme, but
> > black doesn't have anything else. 2...Rxf8 Rxg7 & Qxg7. 2....Ne8 3.Qh7+
> > & Qh8!.
> >
> > I don't see how you can, therefore, call either of these moves "better"
> > than the other although I found the win after Nh8 easier to see.
> >
> > -Ron
> i think Nf6 by white will stop the move Nf8 a little bit longer but Nh8
> is the main move but the book i readed say Nf8 instead
> but what do think it was a russian book i found alot of mistake in this
> book i guess they don't proofread.
On what move?
1.Nf8 Nf6? 2.Nxd7 Nxd7 3.Qxh6 Kf8 4.Bc6! with a Rg8+ and Qg6+ deciding
things.
1.Nf8 Qb5 2.Qxh6 Nf6? 3.Rxg7+ is mate in two.
1.Nf8 isn't a typo. It's completely 100% decisive, instantly. Nh8 is an
alternative, fully acceptable solution.
In an ideal world, books would always note these sorts of moves when
they show up.
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Date: 12 Feb 2005 17:51:15
From: Few Good Chessmen
Subject: Re: try this which move is better ? Nf8 or Nh8
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"Ron" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> chuck <[email protected]> wrote:
<snip >
> > > I don't see how you can, therefore, call either of these moves
"better"
> > > than the other although I found the win after Nh8 easier to see.
> > >
> > > -Ron
> > i think Nf6 by white will stop the move Nf8 a little bit longer but Nh8
> > is the main move but the book i readed say Nf8 instead
> > but what do think it was a russian book i found alot of mistake in this
> > book i guess they don't proofread.
>
> On what move?
>
> 1.Nf8 Nf6? 2.Nxd7 Nxd7 3.Qxh6 Kf8 4.Bc6! with a Rg8+ and Qg6+ deciding
> things.
1.Nf8 Nf6 2.Nd7 Ne4 3. Rg2 and Black slips away with more playing chances.
White eventually wins with his Queen Advantage (disgraceful) but not with
any immediate mating moves insight...an Ugly Win. For 1. Nf8 Nf6 better is
2. ef6 (strange he didn't see this easy win).
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