Fast and strong Games at GetClub.com

Date: 07 Dec 2006 02:44:25
From: Sanny
Subject: Fast and strong Games at GetClub.com

Latest news: GetClub Game playing faster and stronger as never before.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html and see for yourself.

Now all critics will praise the game as nothing left to criticize.

Play best Games at: GetClub Chess.

Beginner Level: 10-20 seconds [Now in time]

Easy Level: 30sec - 1 min / move

Normal Level: 1-2 minutes/move

Just play to see how strong it is playing. It will give a great
Challenge now.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 13 Dec 2006 22:20:42
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

Sanny wrote:
> > > Recorded Game is showing discontinious moves. If you tell me correct
> > > moves that were really played I may correct that.
> >
> > I wondered how the instant replay function was
> > going to handle this. I half expected the Rook to
> > magically teleport itself from f8 to h8 in midgame!
> > Instead, there are moves missing from the replay,
> > with the Rook now displayed on its correct square,
> > when during the game, I finished up with the Rook
> > displayed as on h8 in place of f8 -- that is, before
> > I swung it into the attack.
> >
>
> Just fill up the gaps for wrong moves First 13 moves are OK. you may
> recall whar response you made as recorded game is showing some illegal
> moves.
>
> I believe there are 2-3 moves that need to be added then all moves will
> work perfectly.

Okay, on my computer the position showed my
K-Rook back at h8, instead of where it should have
been, on f8, so all my subsequent moves were
chosen based upon *that* different position. If you
change the moves of the game to make it all legal
chess, then it makes my moves appear a bit silly,
for I had a faster attack than in the actual game,
because I had to maneuver my King out of my own
way!

At any rate, on move 22, I played R/h8-b8,
threatening mate. Next, I went R/b8-c8.
(These moves are currently recorded as "-h8-b8" and
"-b8-c8".) Then I played R-c5, threatening to double
on the c-file with the idea of "liberating" the program
via invasion. Once you reach move 25, the program
is back to knowing where my Rooks have come from,
though it clearly had no idea I was contemplating a
mass invasion, or it would have teleported one back
to h8 again!

Master level is soooo easy. I need a level which
can actually put up a fight. Resistance even. Maybe
if the game started with your program having all
Queens on the back row.... ; >D

-- help bot

Date: 13 Dec 2006 21:17:55
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Fast and strong Games at GetClub.com

> > And Beginner level plays in 10-20 seconds only.
> >
> > Bye
> > Sanny
> >
> > Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> Piece of crap engine sucks at chess, crashes all the time, and moves
> terribly slowly and misses obvious moves.
>

Have you ever played a game at GetClub. It makes very fast and good
moves. It plays 4-5 times faster than it used to earlier.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 13 Dec 2006 08:51:37
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Fast and strong Games at GetClub.com

Sanny wrote:
> > Then, 7 minutes, 5 minutes, 6, 1.5, 4.3, 9, and now it is over 20
> > minutes. Yawm...
> >
>
> I saw your recorded games at:
> http://www.getclub.com/cc/showgame.php?num=10
>
> Easy level took arround 30 seconds 1 min / move.
>
> In none of the moves it took more than 2 minutes.
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> And Beginner level plays in 10-20 seconds only.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Piece of crap engine sucks at chess, crashes all the time, and moves
terribly slowly and misses obvious moves.

Who programmed this piece of crap? You?

Good lord...my Bridge Program plays better chess....

Date: 13 Dec 2006 02:23:37
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

> > Recorded Game is showing discontinious moves. If you tell me correct
> > moves that were really played I may correct that.
>
> I wondered how the instant replay function was
> going to handle this. I half expected the Rook to
> magically teleport itself from f8 to h8 in midgame!
> Instead, there are moves missing from the replay,
> with the Rook now displayed on its correct square,
> when during the game, I finished up with the Rook
> displayed as on h8 in place of f8 -- that is, before
> I swung it into the attack.
>

Just fill up the gaps for wrong moves First 13 moves are OK. you may
recall whar response you made as recorded game is showing some illegal
moves.

I believe there are 2-3 moves that need to be added then all moves will
work perfectly.

Ithink it is due to the fact that you told earlier that you had made
Chastling while when you came back the Chastling was undone. Whatever
it is it would be easy for you to find correct move by going through
the recorded game.

Here is the Recorded game for your reference.

http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM5539&game=Chess

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 13 Dec 2006 01:41:42
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

Sanny wrote:

> > BTW, I am playing your Master level, and now the
> > program is making progress. One small snafu is
> > that a couple of days ago I had castled, but when
> > I restarted tonight, I found my castled Rook back on
> > its home square! No matter, it will just take a bit
> > longer for me to win, but this was a strange bug.
> > I tried restarting the game again to see if the position
> > would self-correct, but to no avail. In fact I have now
> > been able to make my way into a heavy-piece
> > ending, and am on a King hunt, just about to
> > deliver checkmate. Your Master level is no match
> > for a chess genius like me.
>
> It looks like the game is not properly recorded can you list the Game
> Moves. (Correct Moves) So that I may update the Recorded game with
> Correct Moves.

Well, I'm sure a REAL chess genius could easily
list all the moves of a game they recently played,
but not me (I'm a fake chess genius, like IM Innes
and all the rest).
Maybe I can reconstruct the exact move order
from your link below. In essence, I lost a bit of
time by having to move my King off the back
rank in order to swing my Rook from h8 (instead
of f8) to the Queenside for the attack. I do recall
that I doubled my Rooks on the c-file and piled up
on the weak Bishop at c4, then later penetrated
first to the seventh, then the eight rank.

> Here is the Recorded game for your reference.
>
> http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM5539&game=Chess
>
> Recorded Game is showing discontinious moves. If you tell me correct
> moves that were really played I may correct that.

I wondered how the instant replay function was
going to handle this. I half expected the Rook to
magically teleport itself from f8 to h8 in midgame!
Instead, there are moves missing from the replay,
with the Rook now displayed on its correct square,
when during the game, I finished up with the Rook
displayed as on h8 in place of f8 -- that is, before
I swung it into the attack.

-- help bot

Date: 13 Dec 2006 01:16:19
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

> > Help Bot has confirmed that game is fast now. Why others are not
> > getting the Faster Game are their computers slow?
>
> Other players are weak. Pay no attention to their
> incessant whining. The program is playing much faster
> than before -- even on my notebook computer, which is
> nowhere near 3 gigahertz.

May be you are correct.

>
> BTW, I am playing your Master level, and now the
> program is making progress. One small snafu is
> that a couple of days ago I had castled, but when
> I restarted tonight, I found my castled Rook back on
> its home square! No matter, it will just take a bit
> longer for me to win, but this was a strange bug.
> I tried restarting the game again to see if the position
> would self-correct, but to no avail. In fact I have now
> been able to make my way into a heavy-piece
> ending, and am on a King hunt, just about to
> deliver checkmate. Your Master level is no match
> for a chess genius like me.

It looks like the game is not properly recorded can you list the Game
Moves. (Correct Moves) So that I may update the Recorded game with
Correct Moves.

Here is the Recorded game for your reference.

http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM5539&game=Chess

Recorded Game is showing discontinious moves. If you tell me correct
moves that were really played I may correct that.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 13 Dec 2006 00:50:16
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

Sanny wrote:
> > According to your clock, playing at the Beginner level, you program took
> > 884 seconds on one move.
> >
> > And then...dropped a piece.
>
> Time Problem rectified Now Computer will play in Time and will not take
> much longer.
>
> I have P-IV 3.0 GHz computer and I played with Beginner Level and was
> able to finish the game in half an hour.

You mean, it was able to finish with YOU. ; >D

> It was taking 20-30 seconds
> per move. That is a great improvement. I want to hear from you too that
> the games are faster than ever.
>
> Help Bot has confirmed that game is fast now. Why others are not
> getting the Faster Game are their computers slow?

Other players are weak. Pay no attention to their
incessant whining. The program is playing much faster
than before -- even on my notebook computer, which is
nowhere near 3 gigahertz.

BTW, I am playing your Master level, and now the
program is making progress. One small snafu is
that a couple of days ago I had castled, but when
I restarted tonight, I found my castled Rook back on
its home square! No matter, it will just take a bit
longer for me to win, but this was a strange bug.
I tried restarting the game again to see if the position
would self-correct, but to no avail. In fact I have now
been able to make my way into a heavy-piece
ending, and am on a King hunt, just about to
deliver checkmate. Your Master level is no match
for a chess genius like me.

-- help bot

Date: 12 Dec 2006 22:24:37
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

> >> Not to mention that it does *not* play in 20-30 seconds per move. See
> >> my previous post, where it took 884 seconds (by its own clock) to make
> >> one move.
> >>
> >
> > The Problem has been rectified play a new game now it will never take
> > such long time.
>
> Want to bet?

I played arround 5 Games here is the results (Beginner Level)
at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

1. I found most of the Moves played within 10-20 seconds. With average
moves made in 15 seconds.

2. In whole game It is only 1/2 moves when it took more than 40
seconds.

3. In 5 games I played In only one Game it took arround 120 Seconds.
{only 1 move}

Earlier it used to take 800 seconds for some moves that have been
reduced to 40 seconds. So the game is arround 10-20 times faster than
it used to play earlier.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 12 Dec 2006 21:11:15
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

> > Playing a game on 10/sec a move now. it just took about a minute.
>
> I was such an optimist. Currently 450 seconds and counting.

Now all moves will be played fast. Show me a recorded game if it takes
time.

Recently I saw a game with Beginner Level with all moves taking 15
seconds on an Average.

here is the recorded game with beginner level.
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM5530&game=Chess

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 12 Dec 2006 21:07:37
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

> This makes no sense. Either the Computer will play in Time...or it will
> not. There is no such thing as "it will play in time...and not take
> *much* longer". Longer is...longer.
>
> Either fix the program to move in the alloted time, or stop lying about it.
>

I saw a recent recorded game in which Beginner level took just 15
seconds/ move on Average.

http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM5530&game=Chess

> Not to mention that it does *not* play in 20-30 seconds per move. See
> my previous post, where it took 884 seconds (by its own clock) to make
> one move.
>

The Problem has been rectified play a new game now it will never take
such long time.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

> >
> > Help Bot has confirmed that game is fast now. Why others are not
> > getting the Faster Game are their computers slow?
>
Soon all will agree with me.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 12 Dec 2006 23:10:12
From: Kenneth Sloan
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

Sanny wrote:
>> This makes no sense. Either the Computer will play in Time...or it will
>> not. There is no such thing as "it will play in time...and not take
>> *much* longer". Longer is...longer.
>>
>> Either fix the program to move in the alloted time, or stop lying about it.
>>
>
> I saw a recent recorded game in which Beginner level took just 15
> seconds/ move on Average.

In other words, it averaged 5 seconds per move TOO LONG?

>
> http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM5530&game=Chess
>
>> Not to mention that it does *not* play in 20-30 seconds per move. See
>> my previous post, where it took 884 seconds (by its own clock) to make
>> one move.
>>
>
> The Problem has been rectified play a new game now it will never take
> such long time.

Want to bet?

--
Kenneth Sloan [email protected]
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/

Date: 12 Dec 2006 13:20:48
From: Rob
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

Ron wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> Ron <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Sanny" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Time Problem rectified Now Computer will play in Time and will not take
> > > much longer.
> >
> > Playing a game on 10/sec a move now. it just took about a minute.
>
> I was such an optimist. Currently 450 seconds and counting.

Ron,
Give Zed a try:

http://tinyurl.com/s8ws3

Rob

Date: 12 Dec 2006 11:40:22
From: Rob
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

Date: 12 Dec 2006 09:20:18
From: Sanny
Subject: Problem Rectified.

> According to your clock, playing at the Beginner level, you program took
> 884 seconds on one move.
>
> And then...dropped a piece.

Time Problem rectified Now Computer will play in Time and will not take
much longer.

I have P-IV 3.0 GHz computer and I played with Beginner Level and was
able to finish the game in half an hour. It was taking 20-30 seconds
per move. That is a great improvement. I want to hear from you too that
the games are faster than ever.

Help Bot has confirmed that game is fast now. Why others are not
getting the Faster Game are their computers slow?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 12 Dec 2006 20:05:47
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

In article <[email protected] >,
"Sanny" <[email protected] > wrote:

> Time Problem rectified Now Computer will play in Time and will not take
> much longer.

Playing a game on 10/sec a move now. it just took about a minute.

Date: 12 Dec 2006 20:09:09
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

In article
<[email protected] >,
Ron <[email protected] > wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Sanny" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Time Problem rectified Now Computer will play in Time and will not take
> > much longer.
>
> Playing a game on 10/sec a move now. it just took about a minute.

I was such an optimist. Currently 450 seconds and counting.

Date: 12 Dec 2006 13:47:19
From: Kenneth Sloan
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

Sanny wrote:
>> According to your clock, playing at the Beginner level, you program took
>> 884 seconds on one move.
>>
>> And then...dropped a piece.
>
> Time Problem rectified Now Computer will play in Time and will not take
> much longer.

This makes no sense. Either the Computer will play in Time...or it will
not. There is no such thing as "it will play in time...and not take
*much* longer". Longer is...longer.

Either fix the program to move in the alloted time, or stop lying about it.

>
> I have P-IV 3.0 GHz computer and I played with Beginner Level and was
> able to finish the game in half an hour. It was taking 20-30 seconds
> per move. That is a great improvement. I want to hear from you too that
> the games are faster than ever.

The game is advertised as "10 seconds/move". 20-30 seconds per move is
not "10 seconds/move".

Not to mention that it does *not* play in 20-30 seconds per move. See
my previous post, where it took 884 seconds (by its own clock) to make
one move.

>
> Help Bot has confirmed that game is fast now. Why others are not
> getting the Faster Game are their computers slow?

no. Your program sucks.

>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>

--
Kenneth Sloan [email protected]
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/

Date: 18 Dec 2006 02:38:45
From: Daniel W. Rouse Jr.
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

"Kenneth Sloan" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sanny wrote:
> >> According to your clock, playing at the Beginner level, you program
took
> >> 884 seconds on one move.
> >>
> >> And then...dropped a piece.
> >
> > Time Problem rectified Now Computer will play in Time and will not take
> > much longer.
>
> This makes no sense. Either the Computer will play in Time...or it will
> not. There is no such thing as "it will play in time...and not take
> *much* longer". Longer is...longer.
>
> Either fix the program to move in the alloted time, or stop lying about
it.
>
[snip...]

To expand on this, just look at older chess programs such as Sargon
II/III/IV or ChessMaster 2000/3000/4000/5000/5500, etc. These are older
programs that still play a very strong game of chess, even though newer
chess programs today have higher resolution graphics and take advantage of
the latest processors with their latest chess engines.

In those games, which didn't use any Java technology or any sort of virtual
machines--if one selects a time control of 10 seconds per move, then the
computer will always move in 10 seconds or less. If an "Easy mode" is not
invoked, then the computer will also continue to "think" (calculate moves)
while the human player is considering their next move. If an "Easy mode" has
been invoked, this further limits the program from thinking about the next
move until the human player has moved. Either way, every move will be made
by the computer in 10 seconds or less, since the time control is 10 seconds
per move.

Extend this to other time controls, such as 30 seconds per move, or 1 minute
per move, etc... the computer will always make its move at the time control
or even before the required time control elapses.

Now, apparently the GetClub chess program uses Java, which of course, runs
compiled bytecodes under a virtual machine runtime... but the time control
issue should still be adhered to by the GetClub chess program.

Simply put, the program should stop thinking and play the best move found,
if the program hasn't already moved when the required time control has
elapsed. Otherwise, the GetClub chess program is not following its own time
control.

Date: 18 Dec 2006 20:40:37
From: LSD
Subject: Re: Problem Rectified.

At the approximate date and time Mon, 18 Dec 2006 02:38:45 -0800,
someone posting as "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." <[email protected] >
posted:

[snip]
>
>Simply put, the program should stop thinking and play the best move found,
>if the program hasn't already moved when the required time control has
>elapsed. Otherwise, the GetClub chess program is not following its own time
>control.

I can already see the subject line of Sammy's next spam message:

"CHESS PROGRAM IMPROVED. NOW SO ST IT EVEN CHEATS!!"

Date: 12 Dec 2006 02:52:08
From:
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

Sanny schrieb:

> > Ron-Sannyboy
> >
> > 1.e4 e5
> > 2.Nf3 Nc6
> > 3.Bc4 Nf6
> > 4.d4 Nxe4 (computer takes >4.5 minutes)
> > 5.de Bb4? (computer takes over two minutes ... I wasn't paying
> > attention, could have been much longer)
> > 6.c3 ...
>
>
> Simmilar game was played by Anderssen,Adolf -Eichborn,Louis
> *0-1*1853*Breslau
>
> 1. e4 e5
> 2. Nf3 Nf6
> 3. d4 Nxe4
> 4. dxe5 Bb4+
> 5. c3 Bc5
> 6. Qd5 Bxf2+

There is a big difference: the bishop on c4. With this Qd5 threatens
mate.

> Here Black wins the Games So may be Computer win the game.

He loses a piece in this position, which does not happen in the
historic game. You can not compare those two games from there on.

Greetings,
Ralf

Date: 11 Dec 2006 21:39:46
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

> Ron-Sannyboy
>
> 1.e4 e5
> 2.Nf3 Nc6
> 3.Bc4 Nf6
> 4.d4 Nxe4 (computer takes >4.5 minutes)
> 5.de Bb4? (computer takes over two minutes ... I wasn't paying
> attention, could have been much longer)
> 6.c3 ...

Simmilar game was played by Anderssen,Adolf -Eichborn,Louis
*0-1*1853*Breslau

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nf6
3. d4 Nxe4
4. dxe5 Bb4+
5. c3 Bc5
6. Qd5 Bxf2+
7. Ke2 f5
8. exf6 Nxf6
9. Qe5+ Kf8
10. Bg5 Bb6
11. Kd1 d6
12. Qf4 Be6
13. Bd3 Nc6
14. Nbd2 Ne5
15. Be4 Ng6
16. Bxg6 hxg6
17. Nh4 Bf7
18. Ne4 Qd7
19. Nxf6 gxf6
20. Bxf6 Rh7
21. Rf1 Kg8
22. Qg3 Qb5
23. Rf5 Qxb2
24. Nxg6 Qxa1+
25. Kd2 Qxa2+
26. Kd3 Bc4+
27. Ke4 Qe2+
28. Kf4 Qf2+

Here Black wins the Games So may be Computer win the game. Play
Recorded games so that you may continue with the game later. And always
start a new game in a new Browser.

As sometimes Browsers get slow as more than one game is played in same
Browser.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 12 Dec 2006 16:59:55
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

In article <[email protected] >,
"Sanny" <[email protected] > wrote:

> Here Black wins the Games So may be Computer win the game. Play
> Recorded games so that you may continue with the game later. And always
> start a new game in a new Browser.

I've played recorded games. When I tried to continue the game later, it
gave me a game I'd never played to complete.

In any event, to suggest there's a similiarity between the game I just
played against the computer and the Andersson game is just silly. The
fact that you suggest it hints at what the real problem is here:

you don't understand chess well enough to program it.

In any event, I won in 14 moves.

-Ron

Date: 11 Dec 2006 07:53:32
From: Ralf Callenberg
Subject: Re: Fast and strong Games at GetClub.com

Sanny wrote:
> With support of Players the game keep developing and today it is
> better than any other chess engine.

Sanny, you are pathetic. Did you ever inform yourself about the current
status of chess programming? Did you ever run your program against
other programs like Fritz, Shredder or at least free programs like
Crafty or Fruit? Let them play one, ten, hundred games. If your program
would win or at least draw a single game against one of those programs,
I would be very surprised. The fact that average tournament players
easily beat your program, while Fritz 10 just has convincingly beaten
the world champion should give you a hint, that it is pure nonsense to
call your engine "good" or even "better than any other chess engine".

I can somehow understand, that you want to generate some interest in
your business, but this is becoming ridiciluos.

Greetings,
Ralf

Date: 11 Dec 2006 02:05:30
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

> > Better you would have tried Master and Normal Level. Advance level is
> > the toughest Level. Even Master takes lot of time to make strong moves.
> > But Advance is not good if you want to finish a game in a day.
>
>
> My mistake. I am actually playing the Master level,
> not Advance. I got tired of winning easily against the
> lower levels, and all this talk about how the program
> is faster now got me thinking I could move up a notch
> and still be okay timewise. I did step up one level at
> a time, and I did notice an improvement in speed
> until this latest game.
>

Yes everyone will see this speed improvement.

> I have also noticed a recent improvement in the
> *displayed* (no guarantees here) search depth, on
> every level I have played. Eventually, I expect to
> have WiMax in place of WiFi, and perhaps this
> problem of mine will simply evaporate into thin air.
> Until then, I must limit my playing time due to the
> fact that this chess program eats my battery
> power like mad, while often as not, making no
> particular progress.

Do not worry about Level going up and down as it is programmed that
way. Internet Connection is needed only when the computer is making
moves and it does not effect game speed. You may disconnect for
sometime and reconnect when you are about to make move without any
problem.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 11 Dec 2006 01:51:37
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

Sanny wrote:

> > Currently, I am playing Advance level, and although
> > while inside of McDonald's I was able to make some
> > headway, now that I am accessing their wireless
> > service from outside the building (they are closed
> > late at night), and now that the position has reached
> > a complex middlegame, I am unable to make any
> > headway. The program simply goes up and back
>
> Better you would have tried Master and Normal Level. Advance level is
> the toughest Level. Even Master takes lot of time to make strong moves.
> But Advance is not good if you want to finish a game in a day.

My mistake. I am actually playing the Master level,
not Advance. I got tired of winning easily against the
lower levels, and all this talk about how the program
is faster now got me thinking I could move up a notch
and still be okay timewise. I did step up one level at
a time, and I did notice an improvement in speed
until this latest game.

> Advance level game will take 3-4 days to finish a game. (Adviced not to
> play)
>
> Master Level can be finished in a day. (Tough Competition)
>
> Normal Level can be finished in 3 hours. (very hard)
>
> Easy Level can be finished in 1.5 hours (tough fight)
>
> Beginner Level can be finished in 30-40 min (good game)

These numbers seem correct were it not for the
retro-analysis problem, where considerable time is
squandered for nothing. At times, such as when I
have had a particularly good internet connection, I
have seen the program make decent progress as
noted above.
I have also noticed a recent improvement in the
*displayed* (no guarantees here) search depth, on
every level I have played. Eventually, I expect to
have WiMax in place of WiFi, and perhaps this
problem of mine will simply evaporate into thin air.
Until then, I must limit my playing time due to the
fact that this chess program eats my battery
power like mad, while often as not, making no
particular progress.

-- help bot

Date: 11 Dec 2006 00:48:45
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

> Currently, I am playing Advance level, and although
> while inside of McDonald's I was able to make some
> headway, now that I am accessing their wireless
> service from outside the building (they are closed
> late at night), and now that the position has reached
> a complex middlegame, I am unable to make any
> headway. The program simply goes up and back

Better you would have tried Master and Normal Level. Advance level is
the toughest Level. Even Master takes lot of time to make strong moves.
But Advance is not good if you want to finish a game in a day.

Advance level game will take 3-4 days to finish a game. (Adviced not to
play)

Master Level can be finished in a day. (Tough Competition)

Normal Level can be finished in 3 hours. (very hard)

Easy Level can be finished in 1.5 hours (tough fight)

Beginner Level can be finished in 30-40 min (good game)

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 11 Dec 2006 00:35:10
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

> > This is roughly the time in which the game will play. Only is very
> > complex position will they go beyond Maximum time.
>
> For your program, every position is very complicated.

OUCH!

Indeed, what Sanny seems to be missing is the fact
that his program quite often goes retrograde in its
analysis, stepping say, from 1, to 2, to 3, to 4, then
back to 3, then maybe 4 and 5, then back to 2, plies
search depth, as displayed in the game window. This
results in a massive loss of time for the user, all
wasted due to some flaw in the program. Were it not
for this problem, the program could very well perform
something like what Sanny claims -- maybe.

Currently, I am playing Advance level, and although
while inside of McDonald's I was able to make some
headway, now that I am accessing their wireless
service from outside the building (they are closed
late at night), and now that the position has reached
a complex middlegame, I am unable to make any
headway. The program simply goes up and back
repeatedly, never getting to the point where it actually
plays a move. I have observed it for hours at a time
(while doing other things, of course), never getting
past the 5th ply and frequently reverting to lower
numbers like two or three plys. Whatever Sanny
claims, I believe this is *somehow* related to the
internet connection, since the degree to which I
have this trouble correlates with my connection
quality. It has been months since I first pointed
this problem out, to no avail.

-- help bot

Date: 11 Dec 2006 00:05:05
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

> > Time Shown in Recorded Game are Correct to +/- 1 Second.
>
> Where are those "recorded times"? They don't appear anywhere that
> I can see.

Now on you can see the Time at Bottom Right Corner of the Screen
telling how much time has elapsed for this move.

> > There may be just a difference of only 1 second from the time shown
> > Not more than that. As it uses the System clock to record number of
> > seconds it takes to make a move.
>
> The program does not play anywhere near that speed. What is it (or
> what do you think it is) timing? Is it recording CPU time? That is
> only a fraction of real time.

You can see the Seconds counter which updates every 2 seconds.

> > You can see Opening Moves are made in 0 seconds as they are produced
> > instantaniously, While other moves with Beginner Level takes 10-20
> > Seconds.

That's it.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 11 Dec 2006 12:20:19
From: Chris F.A. Johnson
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

On 2006-12-11, Sanny wrote:
>
>> > Time Shown in Recorded Game are Correct to +/- 1 Second.
>>
>> Where are those "recorded times"? They don't appear anywhere that
>> I can see.
>
> Now on you can see the Time at Bottom Right Corner of the Screen
> telling how much time has elapsed for this move.

No I cannot. There is nothing there.

What you need is a game listing, preferably in PGN format, with
the time taken, e.g.:

1. f4 {00:10} d5 {00:32}
2. b3 {00:07} c5 {00:41}
...

>> > There may be just a difference of only 1 second from the time shown
>> > Not more than that. As it uses the System clock to record number of
>> > seconds it takes to make a move.
>>
>> The program does not play anywhere near that speed. What is it (or
>> what do you think it is) timing? Is it recording CPU time? That is
>> only a fraction of real time.
>
> You can see the Seconds counter which updates every 2 seconds.

What is that seconds counter showing? If the game being replayed
in real time? If so, why on earth would you do that? Not that it
is really doing that; it is moving far too fast for real time, and
much too slowly for a replay.

>> > You can see Opening Moves are made in 0 seconds as they are produced
>> > instantaniously, While other moves with Beginner Level takes 10-20
>> > Seconds.
>
> That's it.

No, it's nothing like it.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org >
===================================================================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Date: 12 Dec 2006 02:31:19
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

I had an interesting situation.

I was playing a game the other day until the program - for no
discernable reason - bounced me back to the startup screen.

Now I go to start another game, and it puts me in the middle of a game
... albiet not the game I was playing. I have to play some weird
position where "my" side has played very passively for the first several
moves.

Date: 12 Dec 2006 02:40:15
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

Oh, an incidentally, on 10-sec/move level, I just started a new game.

After making all it's book moves quickly, the computer has now spent
over 4.5 minutes on it's first thinking move.

-Ron

Date: 12 Dec 2006 02:50:40
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

In article
<[email protected] >,
Ron <[email protected] > wrote:

> Oh, an incidentally, on 10-sec/move level, I just started a new game.
>
> After making all it's book moves quickly, the computer has now spent
> over 4.5 minutes on it's first thinking move.

All the claims about the game either being stronger or faster than it
was when Sanny first started bragging about it have to be thrown out the
window:

Ron-Sannyboy

1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Bc4 Nf6
4.d4 Nxe4 (computer takes >4.5 minutes)
5.de Bb4? (computer takes over two minutes ... I wasn't paying
attention, could have been much longer)
6.c3 ...

And the computer has spent 10 minutes on it's sixth move. I beat the
computer with this same opening sequence months ago.

This is on the free level, that's supposed to be 10 sec/move.

The computer, by the way, is dead lost at this point. So I'm wondering,
where is the strength? Where is the speed?

-Ron

Date: 10 Dec 2006 22:36:21
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

> > Looking at the recorded games I based my descision about time taken.
> >
> > http://www.getclub.com/cc/showgame.php?num=10 and see the recorded
> > games. They are playing quite fast. And now the computer is winning
> > weak opponents.
>
> The times shown there bear no relation to the time taken in the
> game. If you are using that as a basis for everything, no wonder
> you keep posting rubbish.

Time Shown in Recorded Game are Correct to +/- 1 Second. There may be
just a difference of only 1 second from the time shown Not more than
that. As it uses the System clock to record number of seconds it takes
to make a move.

You can see Opening Moves are made in 0 seconds as they are produced
instantaniously, While other moves with Beginner Level takes 10-20
Seconds.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 11 Dec 2006 23:35:29
From: Kenneth Sloan
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

Sanny wrote:
>>> Looking at the recorded games I based my descision about time taken.
>>>
>>> http://www.getclub.com/cc/showgame.php?num=10 and see the recorded
>>> games. They are playing quite fast. And now the computer is winning
>>> weak opponents.
>> The times shown there bear no relation to the time taken in the
>> game. If you are using that as a basis for everything, no wonder
>> you keep posting rubbish.
>
>
> Time Shown in Recorded Game are Correct to +/- 1 Second. There may be
> just a difference of only 1 second from the time shown Not more than
> that. As it uses the System clock to record number of seconds it takes
> to make a move.
>
> You can see Opening Moves are made in 0 seconds as they are produced
> instantaniously, While other moves with Beginner Level takes 10-20
> Seconds.
>

According to your clock, playing at the Beginner level, you program took
884 seconds on one move.

And then...dropped a piece.

--
Kenneth Sloan [email protected]
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/

Date: 11 Dec 2006 01:58:07
From: Chris F.A. Johnson
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

On 2006-12-11, Sanny wrote:
>> > Looking at the recorded games I based my descision about time taken.
>> >
>> > http://www.getclub.com/cc/showgame.php?num=10 and see the recorded
>> > games. They are playing quite fast. And now the computer is winning
>> > weak opponents.
>>
>> The times shown there bear no relation to the time taken in the
>> game. If you are using that as a basis for everything, no wonder
>> you keep posting rubbish.
>
>
> Time Shown in Recorded Game are Correct to +/- 1 Second.

Where are those "recorded times"? They don't appear anywhere that
I can see.

> There may be just a difference of only 1 second from the time shown
> Not more than that. As it uses the System clock to record number of
> seconds it takes to make a move.

The program does not play anywhere near that speed. What is it (or
what do you think it is) timing? Is it recording CPU time? That is
only a fraction of real time.

Are you basing the timings on the time it takes to play back the
game? If so, why does it take that long to replay a move that has
already been made?

> You can see Opening Moves are made in 0 seconds as they are produced
> instantaniously, While other moves with Beginner Level takes 10-20
> Seconds.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org >
===================================================================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Date: 10 Dec 2006 21:21:12
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

> If you don't know whether it is playing fast or not, why do you
> make the spurious claim that it is?
>
> I just resumed a game (easy level) I started a day or two ago; I
> have been waiting 15 minutes for it to move.
>
> --

Looking at the recorded games I based my descision about time taken.

http://www.getclub.com/cc/showgame.php?num=10 and see the recorded
games. They are playing quite fast. And now the computer is winning
weak opponents.

For very complex position it may think longer but I do not think it
will ever think for more than 15 minutes.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Begiiner 10-20 seconds Maximum: 1 min

Easy 20-40 seconds Maximum: 2 min

Normal 1-2 min Maximum: 4 min

Master 2-4 min Maximum: 8 min

This is roughly the time in which the game will play. Only is very
complex position will they go beyond Maximum time.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 11 Dec 2006 01:16:07
From: Chris F.A. Johnson
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

On 2006-12-11, Sanny wrote:
>
>> If you don't know whether it is playing fast or not, why do you
>> make the spurious claim that it is?
>>
>> I just resumed a game (easy level) I started a day or two ago; I
>> have been waiting 15 minutes for it to move.
>>
>> --
>
> Looking at the recorded games I based my descision about time taken.
>
> http://www.getclub.com/cc/showgame.php?num=10 and see the recorded
> games. They are playing quite fast. And now the computer is winning
> weak opponents.

The times shown there bear no relation to the time taken in the
game. If you are using that as a basis for everything, no wonder
you keep posting rubbish.

> For very complex position it may think longer but I do not think it
> will ever think for more than 15 minutes.

20 and 30 minutes and even longer are not unusual on easy level.

...
> This is roughly the time in which the game will play. Only is very
> complex position will they go beyond Maximum time.

For your program, every position is very complicated.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org >
===================================================================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Date: 10 Dec 2006 07:24:16
From: Sanny
Subject: Game is very fast now.

> Heh. I tried one last time to check it out. It took far longer than a
> minute a move (except for it's one in-book move, I don't think it took
> under 3 minutes, and frequently took much more).
>
Now it moves quite fast Begiiner Level makes move in 10-20 seconds
while Easy level in 20-40 seconds. Easy level takes more than 1 min
time only for a few moves.

Play a new game at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Play again and let me know it is playing fast or not.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 10 Dec 2006 21:31:55
From: Chris F.A. Johnson
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now.

On 2006-12-10, Sanny wrote:
>> Heh. I tried one last time to check it out. It took far longer than a
>> minute a move (except for it's one in-book move, I don't think it took
>> under 3 minutes, and frequently took much more).
>>
> Now it moves quite fast Begiiner Level makes move in 10-20 seconds
> while Easy level in 20-40 seconds. Easy level takes more than 1 min
> time only for a few moves.
>
> Play a new game at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> Play again and let me know it is playing fast or not.

If you don't know whether it is playing fast or not, why do you
make the spurious claim that it is?

I just resumed a game (easy level) I started a day or two ago; I
have been waiting 15 minutes for it to move.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org >
===================================================================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Date: 09 Dec 2006 22:07:59
From: Sanny
Subject: Fritz8 vs GetClub Competition.

Yesterday Taylor Kingston made a Match Between Fritz8 (10 seconds) Vs
Easy Level

Here is the Recorded Game:
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM5512&game=Chess

Fritz8 won the Game. But I have a few Comments on the game.

Fritz8 is working on your computer and is loaded in your windows. So
such Program will always be 10 times faster than Applet Programs which
are dependent only on CPU power the browser provides.

Browser do not give enough resources to Applets so they are 10-20 times

slower than programs loaded in CPU.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

If you are playing Fritz8 at 10 seconds then My Applet program should
be set to 100-200 seconds That is Master/Advance Level.

You played with Easy level then set Fritz8 time to 2 seconds. Then the
computation will be fair.

Once Everone is satisfied with the GetClub Program We will release
downloadable Program that will play better than Fritz8 and will give
tough Competition to Deep Fritz.

With the Downloadable program I believe Master Level will play moves in

10seconds. And then you may equate Fritz8 with the Download Program.

I am happy to see my Program played quite well against Fritz8 despite
the fact it worked on Applet which are 10 times slower than Downloaded
Programs.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 09 Dec 2006 18:50:59
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

Kenneth Sloan wrote:
> Sanny wrote:
> > Yes Speed has increased what about the game play?
>
> Game play is nearly impossible.
>
> The web pages spends all its time blinking buttons and does not
> respond in a timely manner.
>
> When the chess board is first presented, the first and last rank are
> garbled - it takes over a minute for a valid board to be displayed.

This seems to be the result of myriad complaints about
the chess engine's slowness; as far as I can tell, this new
"improvement" is designed to allocate more resources or
time to the calculations, and less to the graphic interface.
Note how the depth of search has made a leap in speed
in return for this minor inconvenience.

> Clicking on a piece elicits zero feedback. One must blindly click on
> the "from" and "to" squares.

This is not all bad. For example, I have yet to accidentally
"release" any man on the wrong square, en route to my
intended destination square. By forcing the human player
to click on each square, these little mishaps are neatly
avoided.

> It takes 15 seconds or so before the program acknowledges your move and
> plays it on the board.

This is *nothing* in comparison to how long the program
takes to move, so what's the big deal?

> the interface appears to be most sluggish when you make an "unexpected"
> move.

Stop your whining. Face it: your own silly moves
have brought this upon yourself. try to focus on
finding the *correct* moves.

> When taken out of book, the program goes even further "out of book" by
> playing very weak moves.

It is every chess player's perrogative to choose their own moves.

> And then, the slow-down begins. By move 6 or so, the program is taking
> 10 times the advertised amount of time on every move.
>
> But...the buttons continue their annoying blinking.

Perhaps this is an IE issue, for using Firefox, I hadn't
noticed any blinking. However, the screen "updates"
far more often now, which is a good thing, for otherwise
an internet connection could "time out" unexpectedly.

> The "10 seconds/move" level just took 5 minutes for a move in the early
> middlegame. It was a weak move.
>
> In the final throes of a dead lost position...it starts throwing pieces
> away, just to live for one more move. Does it not understand "resign"?

Apparently, the program "resigns" only when it detects a
forced mate coming in one, or sometimes two, moves.

> KRNkpp (a&h pawns), it's running both pawns to their certain
> deaths...lemming-like.

Another improvement.

"Passed panws must be pushed!" -- Fred Reinfeld

> It moves a P to the 8th rank, but DOES NOT PROMOTE! perhaps because the
> promoted piece will be immediately captured.
>
> Waiting for it to complete the move......
>
> no luck...the program says it played P-a1. There's a P on a1. Is it a
> Q? a R? a N? a B? No one knows!

Patience! You obviously are lacking in patience. All
things come to those who wait. (In this case, it could
take hours.)

> So...I capture the P on a1,

An illegal move. You must allow your opponent to
complete his move before making one of your own!
Obviously, you are a beginner, quite unfamiliar with
even the most basic rules of chess.

> and it struggles on in KRNkp (h pawn, K
> pinned behind the P on the h file by the R on g1). At least it moved in
> only 30 seconds when there were only 2 legal moves!

See, you complain when it moves quickly, and you
complain when it doesn't. In sum, you are a chronic
complainer.

> Now it has 2 moves, and 1 loses the last P immediately. Is it moving?
> Nope...it's thinking...and thinking...and thinking...and then pitches
> the P!!!

That's nothing. Last night, I was in the process of
checkmating the program when it had but one legal
move. So how long and how deep did it "think" about
what to play? A few minutes, displaying a ply depth
of well over a thousand half-moves! (OTOH, it did find
the "correct" move.)

> Now KRNk...and still we play on. OK - now it has exactly 1 legal move
> (trapped on h7/8) and it's still taking 1 minute per move!

I can see that it's killing you that you failed to outplay
the program sufficiently to deliver checkmate in midgame.
That is because you are a weak player. Keep practicing.

> Finally....with mate in 2 on the board...poof! the board disappears.
> As a resignation, this is roughly equivalent to flipping the board in
> the air, scattering the pieces every which way.

It's called "conditioning". You are subtly being
"programmed" to not win the next time, since it
comes with an annoying consequence. This is
just one of the many advanced features of Sanny's
state-of-the-art chess program. Expect nothing
but the best, most advanced techniques at GetClub.

> What a pleasant chess experience.
>
> bottom line: it's still slow and stupid. (but mostly S l o w)

Pfuscher easily handled the program in just twenty
or thirty moves, on average, suffering none of the
problems you complained about. Perhaps the real
issue here is the grave difficulties you see to have in
tackling Sanny's chess program in an efficient manner,
instead of these mighty endgame struggles, which
remind me of Operation Barbarossa from WWII.

-- help bot

Date: 09 Dec 2006 08:55:09
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

Thanks for your Suggestions. Every Suggestion help us remove mistakes
from the game.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

> The web pages spends all its time blinking buttons and does not
> respond in a timely manner.

Which button Blink and Annoy?

> When the chess board is first presented, the first and last rank are
> garbled - it takes over a minute for a valid board to be displayed.
>
> Clicking on a piece elicits zero feedback. One must blindly click on
> the "from" and "to" squares.
>
> It takes 15 seconds or so before the program acknowledges your move and
> plays it on the board.

It takes time to download the game as it is a large program. If it
blurs it's screen What I do is Scroll down and return back to the game
So that the Applet view is refreshed.

>
> the interface appears to be most sluggish when you make an "unexpected"
> move.
>

Please elaborate what type of response you are looking for.

> When taken out of book, the program goes even further "out of book" by
> playing very weak moves.
>

Good trick but that part of Middle game.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

> KRNkpp (a&h pawns), it's running both pawns to their certain
> deaths...lemming-like.
>

I do not understand this language "KRNkpp"

> Waiting for it to complete the move......
>
> no luck...the program says it played P-a1. There's a P on a1. Is it a
> Q? a R? a N? a B? No one knows!

Yes, Better would be P-a1(Q)

> Now it has 2 moves, and 1 loses the last P immediately. Is it moving?
> Nope...it's thinking...and thinking...and thinking...and then pitches
> the P!!!
>
> Now KRNk...and still we play on. OK - now it has exactly 1 legal move
> (trapped on h7/8) and it's still taking 1 minute per move!
>

Can you give me a link to recorded game. As I can see and analyze with
all moves replayed in front. What is your username by which you play
Games.

We have keep improving the game and I suppose your points will be
understood and corrected.

Thanks for your good suggestions.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 09 Dec 2006 02:31:56
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

> FYI: I am still winning all my games due to my
> tactical superiority. For example, in one recent
> game I played ...N-e4 in the early middlegame,
> "apparently" hanging a pawn. But I easily saw ten
> moves ahead, where a deadly pin would recoup
> the material -- with interest. Your program took

My program never looks 10 moves deeper, How you saw that?

You are taking on average 60 moves to win. Earlier you used to take 40
Moves to win. So with new improvements you have to make 20 extra moves
to win.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

> tonight, I was switching back and forth between
> the game and an argument with Sam Sloan, when
> I noticed I had just moved a piece en prise! After
> your program captured the free piece, I went on to
> win routinely, as such small things are of no real
> significance to a chess genius like myself. ;>D
>

It means you are going to loose in 1/ 3 games with Easy level. Are you
finding the games tougher than earlier Or they play same as a week
earlier. Yes Speed has increased what about the game play?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 09 Dec 2006 02:21:00
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

Date: 09 Dec 2006 09:37:31
From: Kenneth Sloan
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

Sanny wrote:
> Yes Speed has increased what about the game play?
>

Game play is nearly impossible.

The web pages spends all its time blinking buttons and does not
respond in a timely manner.

When the chess board is first presented, the first and last rank are
garbled - it takes over a minute for a valid board to be displayed.

Clicking on a piece elicits zero feedback. One must blindly click on
the "from" and "to" squares.

It takes 15 seconds or so before the program acknowledges your move and
plays it on the board.

the interface appears to be most sluggish when you make an "unexpected"
move.

When taken out of book, the program goes even further "out of book" by
playing very weak moves.

And then, the slow-down begins. By move 6 or so, the program is taking
10 times the advertised amount of time on every move.

But...the buttons continue their annoying blinking.

The "10 seconds/move" level just took 5 minutes for a move in the early
middlegame. It was a weak move.

In the final throes of a dead lost position...it starts throwing pieces
away, just to live for one more move. Does it not understand "resign"?

KRNkpp (a&h pawns), it's running both pawns to their certain
deaths...lemming-like.

It moves a P to the 8th rank, but DOES NOT PROMOTE! perhaps because the
promoted piece will be immediately captured.

Waiting for it to complete the move......

no luck...the program says it played P-a1. There's a P on a1. Is it a
Q? a R? a N? a B? No one knows!

So...I capture the P on a1, and it struggles on in KRNkp (h pawn, K
pinned behind the P on the h file by the R on g1). At least it moved in
only 30 seconds when there were only 2 legal moves!

Now it has 2 moves, and 1 loses the last P immediately. Is it moving?
Nope...it's thinking...and thinking...and thinking...and then pitches
the P!!!

Now KRNk...and still we play on. OK - now it has exactly 1 legal move
(trapped on h7/8) and it's still taking 1 minute per move!

Finally....with mate in 2 on the board...poof! the board disappears.
As a resignation, this is roughly equivalent to flipping the board in
the air, scattering the pieces every which way.

What a pleasant chess experience.

bottom line: it's still slow and stupid. (but mostly S l o w)

--
Kenneth Sloan [email protected]
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/

Date: 09 Dec 2006 15:25:27
From: Chris F.A. Johnson
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

On 2006-12-09, Kenneth Sloan wrote:
> Sanny wrote:
>> Yes Speed has increased what about the game play?
>>
>
> Game play is nearly impossible.
>
> The web pages spends all its time blinking buttons and does not
> respond in a timely manner.
>
> When the chess board is first presented, the first and last rank are
> garbled - it takes over a minute for a valid board to be displayed.
>
> Clicking on a piece elicits zero feedback. One must blindly click on
> the "from" and "to" squares.

I haven't had any of the above problems.

> It takes 15 seconds or so before the program acknowledges your move and
> plays it on the board.

That happens occasionally.

> the interface appears to be most sluggish when you make an "unexpected"
> move.

That's an understatement.

> When taken out of book, the program goes even further "out of book" by
> playing very weak moves.

Ditto.

[snip]
> bottom line: it's still slow and stupid. (but mostly S l o w)

Easy level plays as badly as (or worse than) a program, written in
BASIC, that I had on the Commodore 64 more than 20 years ago. That
program, however, played much faster. I've been waiting more than
30 minutes for the program's 10th move (or thereabouts; why are the
moves not numbered? why are they not in standard algebraic
notation?).

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org >
===================================================================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Date: 09 Dec 2006 12:46:28
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 15:25:27 -0500, "Chris F.A. Johnson"
<[email protected] > wrote:

> I've been waiting more than
> 30 minutes for the program's 10th move (or thereabouts; why are the
> moves not numbered? why are they not in standard algebraic
> notation?).

Why are people still wasting time on this thing ? Weeks and weeks
have passed and people are still reporting the same problems. Right
now, on ebay, Fritz 7 and Shredder 6, together, are going for about
four bucks plus three bucks shipping.

Date: 09 Dec 2006 18:44:56
From: Chris F.A. Johnson
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

On 2006-12-09, Mike Murray wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 15:25:27 -0500, "Chris F.A. Johnson"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> I've been waiting more than
>> 30 minutes for the program's 10th move (or thereabouts; why are the
>> moves not numbered? why are they not in standard algebraic
>> notation?).
>
>
> Why are people still wasting time on this thing ?

"The triumph of hope over experience."

> Weeks and weeks have passed and people are still reporting the same
> problems.

Week? Months!

> Right now, on ebay, Fritz 7 and Shredder 6, together, are going for
> about four bucks plus three bucks shipping.

Does either run on anything other than Windows?

Besides, Crafty costs about $7 less.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org >
===================================================================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Date: 09 Dec 2006 19:50:07
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

In article <[email protected] >,
Kenneth Sloan <[email protected] > wrote:

> The web pages spends all its time blinking buttons and does not
> respond in a timely manner.

Yeah. The responsiveness of the board has clearly gotten worse from the
last time I played it. I make a move, and it hangs - my pawn halfway
from one square to the next. or it makes all the fancy sound effects but
doesn't move the piece to the right square right away.

Date: 09 Dec 2006 13:23:12
From: LSD
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

At the approximate date and time Sat, 09 Dec 2006 09:37:31 -0600,
someone posting as Kenneth Sloan <[email protected] > posted:

[snip]
>Finally....with mate in 2 on the board...poof! the board disappears.
>As a resignation, this is roughly equivalent to flipping the board in
>the air, scattering the pieces every which way.

Don't knock it till you've tried it. There's an undeniable cathartic
effect. ;-)

Date: 09 Dec 2006 02:03:32
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

In recent game with Normal Level you were White or you were Black?

In that game it show Normal Level is having Black and Black wins the
Game.

If you were White then this is my First win by Normal Level.

http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM5503&game=Chess

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 09 Dec 2006 02:03:05
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

Date: 09 Dec 2006 02:02:44
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

Date: 09 Dec 2006 02:02:19
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

In recent game with Normal Level you were White or you were Black?

In that game it show Normal Level is having Black and Black wins the
Game.

If you were White then this is my First win by Normal Level.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 09 Dec 2006 01:01:14
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

Sanny wrote:

> Here is a game played by Nomorechess with Easy Level
>
> After 60 Moves Nomorechess was able to beat the easy level.
>
> 3 times in the game Easy Level had better position against nomorechess.
> Now nomorechess was finding it very difficult to tackle the computers
> move.
>
> Want to go through complete game, Here it is
>
> http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM5485&game=Chess
>
> The game was played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> Here is the opening moves I do not have time to type all moves
>
> 1. d4 d5
> 2. c4 e6
> 3. Nc3 Be7
> 4. cxd5 exd5
> 5. Qd3 Nf6
> 6. Nf3 0-0

I vaguely recall having some issues in this game,
such as perhaps being equal for much longer than
normal for me. If this is the game I mentioned in
another thread, in which I deliberately traded down
to a longwinded Rook ending, that would explain
why I took 60 moves to win this time.

> This is the First game where Easy Level was able to give equally strong
> Moves against Nomorechess.

Perhaps, but not in the endgame. I have little
fear of being drawn in (drawish) endgames at
GetClub, because the program always seems to
drop the ball.
In reality, there have been several games in which
the program gave equally strong moves against me --
until it blundered, that is.

> Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> Yesterday Chrisf played 5 games with Easy level, He won them easily But
> earlier he used to only play with Master Level. Now he is afraid of
> Master Level of Loosing, As even Easy level is playing good enough.

Maybe he doesn't believe he can finish a game
on the highest levels.

> For Nomorechess Easy level will be too tough to win, And I am sure soon
> I will see a few games where Easy level have won Nomorechess.

FYI: I am still winning all my games due to my
tactical superiority. For example, in one recent
game I played ...N-e4 in the early middlegame,
"apparently" hanging a pawn. But I easily saw ten
moves ahead, where a deadly pin would recoup
the material -- with interest. Your program took
the bait, unable to keep up with my superior
tactical ability. OTOH, in a game I played just
tonight, I was switching back and forth between
the game and an argument with Sam Sloan, when
I noticed I had just moved a piece en prise! After
your program captured the free piece, I went on to
win routinely, as such small things are of no real
significance to a chess genius like myself. ; >D

-- help bot

Date: 08 Dec 2006 22:48:09
From: Sanny
Subject: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> I thank all those who helped me in development of the GetClub game.
>

Here is a game played by Nomorechess with Easy Level

After 60 Moves Nomorechess was able to beat the easy level.

3 times in the game Easy Level had better position against nomorechess.
Now nomorechess was finding it very difficult to tackle the computers
move.

Want to go through complete game, Here it is

http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM5485&game=Chess

The game was played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Here is the opening moves I do not have time to type all moves

1. d4 d5
2. c4 e6
3. Nc3 Be7
4. cxd5 exd5
5. Qd3 Nf6
6. Nf3 0-0
------
-------

and the game continued

See Complete game at:
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM5485&game=Chess

This is the First game where Easy Level was able to give equally strong
Moves against Nomorechess.

Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Yesterday Chrisf played 5 games with Easy level, He won them easily But
earlier he used to only play with Master Level. Now he is afraid of
Master Level of Loosing, As even Easy level is playing good enough.

For Nomorechess Easy level will be too tough to win, And I am sure soon
I will see a few games where Easy level have won Nomorechess.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 08 Dec 2006 21:29:58
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Fast and strong Games at GetClub.com

> > The only way to stop that !$%^&2 is for *everyone* to stop responding to
> > his posts. If everyone did that, he might just eventually get bored of it.
>
> I doubt that everyone ever will stop responding to Sanny.
> I suspect that there always will be one or more trolls
> who will like to keep feeding or encouraging Sanny.
>

GetClub Game developed only because it was supported by so many players
here. With support of Players the game keep developing and today it is
better than any other chess engine.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

I thank all those who helped me in development of the GetClub game.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 08 Dec 2006 13:41:58
From: Nick
Subject: Re: Fast and strong Games at GetClub.com

Dave (from the UK) wrote:
> Inconnux wrote (to Sanny):
> > Thanks to all your spamming this will be the LAST place
> > that I will ever play chess. You are driving away people
> > with your constant spamming of these newsgroups.
> > Please stop
> >
> > you have now been added to my twitfilter
>
> The only way to stop that !$%^&2 is for *everyone* to stop responding to
> his posts. If everyone did that, he might just eventually get bored of it.

I doubt that everyone ever will stop responding to Sanny.
I suspect that there always will be one or more trolls
who will like to keep feeding or encouraging Sanny.

--Nick

Date: 07 Dec 2006 22:12:42
From: Sanny
Subject: Lots of games being played at GetClub

Yesterday 10 games were played as the game has speedup, people can play
2-3 games in the time they used to play single game earlier.

Yesterday, HyperModern lost with Easy level.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Now you will see lots of players playing at GetClub so soon you will
find lots of Human Opponents and play with them also.

I am sure Beginner and Easy level will be difficult for most of the
players. Very strong players may play with Normal & Master Levels also
as they too take less time than earlier.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 07 Dec 2006 21:58:14
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Fast and strong Games at GetClub.com

> Then, 7 minutes, 5 minutes, 6, 1.5, 4.3, 9, and now it is over 20
> minutes. Yawm...
>

I saw your recorded games at:
http://www.getclub.com/cc/showgame.php?num=10

Easy level took arround 30 seconds 1 min / move.

In none of the moves it took more than 2 minutes.

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

And Beginner level plays in 10-20 seconds only.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 12 Dec 2006 22:19:09
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Game is very fast now. So fast my head is spinning like a top!

Ron wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Sanny" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Here Black wins the Games So may be Computer win the game. Play
> > Recorded games so that you may continue with the game later. And always
> > start a new game in a new Browser.
>
> I've played recorded games. When I tried to continue the game later, it
> gave me a game I'd never played to complete.
>
> In any event, to suggest there's a similiarity between the game I just
> played against the computer and the Andersson game is just silly. The
> fact that you suggest it hints at what the real problem is here:
>
> you don't understand chess well enough to program it.

Ron, as far as I know Sanny has consistently maintained
that he has a "team" of programmers to do this for him.
Thus, it makes little difference whether Sanny himself is a
strong chess player or a weak one, except insofar as he
directs this "team".

-------------

One thing which I find odd is with all the criticism here
of just how weak the program is, why are there not more
players (rated over 1000) listed at his site? I mean, if
just about everybody can beat the program, why isn't
the list of plus-score opponents a very long one? Is it
because very few have the patience to finish a game
there? Just glancing over the current list, I suspect
several of the names are one and the same person,
namely Phil "Fake IM" Innes, so a simple count of
heads is insufficient. Another example would be
Taylor Kingston, who may have played under any
number of different identities in order to rack up more
prize money by, for example, taking 1st AND 2nd in
the same contest.

-- help bot

Date: 08 Dec 2006 01:28:52
From: Chris F.A. Johnson
Subject: Re: Fast and strong Games at GetClub.com

On 2006-12-08, Sanny wrote:
>
>> Then, 7 minutes, 5 minutes, 6, 1.5, 4.3, 9, and now it is over 20
>> minutes. Yawm...
>>
>
> I saw your recorded games at:
> http://www.getclub.com/cc/showgame.php?num=10
>
> Easy level took arround 30 seconds 1 min / move.

No, it took the times I posted. It is not only the time it takes
that is broken, its record of the times is also broken.

> In none of the moves it took more than 2 minutes.

Not true.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org >
===================================================================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Date: 09 Dec 2006 21:10:09
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Fast and strong Games at GetClub.com

In article <[email protected] >,
"Chris F.A. Johnson" <[email protected] > wrote:

> No, it took the times I posted. It is not only the time it takes
> that is broken, its record of the times is also broken.

Heh. I tried one last time to check it out. It took far longer than a
minute a move (except for it's one in-book move, I don't think it took
under 3 minutes, and frequently took much more).

And then on the computer's 15th move, the program crashed out and sent
me back to the startup screen.

Date: 08 Dec 2006 00:09:39
From: Chris F.A. Johnson
Subject: Re: Fast and strong Games at GetClub.com

On 2006-12-07, Sanny wrote:
> Latest news: GetClub Game playing faster and stronger as never before.
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html and see for yourself.
>
> Now all critics will praise the game as nothing left to criticize.
>
> Play best Games at: GetClub Chess.
>
> Beginner Level: 10-20 seconds [Now in time]
>
> Easy Level: 30sec - 1 min / move

A big improvement at Easy level. It didn't go much over 1 minute
until move 6.

Then, 7 minutes, 5 minutes, 6, 1.5, 4.3, 9, and now it is over 20
minutes. Yawm...

I should have know better than to believe you.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org >
===================================================================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Date: 07 Dec 2006 09:37:19
From: Inconnux
Subject: Re: Fast and strong Games at GetClub.com

Sanny wrote:
> Latest news: GetClub Game playing faster and stronger as never before.
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html and see for yourself.
>
> Now all critics will praise the game as nothing left to criticize.
>
> Play best Games at: GetClub Chess.
>
> Beginner Level: 10-20 seconds [Now in time]
>
> Easy Level: 30sec - 1 min / move
>
> Normal Level: 1-2 minutes/move
>
> Just play to see how strong it is playing. It will give a great
> Challenge now.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Thanks to all your spamming this will be the LAST place that
I will ever play chess. You are driving away people
with your constant spamming of these newsgroups.
Please stop...

you have now been added to my twitfilter

Date: 10 Dec 2006 09:21:28
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Nomorechess played with Easy Level

> > Why are people still wasting time on this thing ?

An excellent question, so I decided to try it myself and indeed wasted
my time. Without registering it plays on the beginner level. I had
white and after my fourth move in the French, Advance Variation, I
waited, and waited, and waited, and the thing never played. An aside:
I tried the "large board" display and it takes up the screen with no
way to close it.

Indeed a waste of time, one that I won't repeat.

Date: 08 Dec 2006 09:07:32
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: Fast and strong Games at GetClub.com

Inconnux wrote:
> Sanny wrote:

> Thanks to all your spamming this will be the LAST place that
> I will ever play chess. You are driving away people
> with your constant spamming of these newsgroups.
> Please stop...
>
> you have now been added to my twitfilter
>

The only way to stop that !$%^&2 is for *everyone* to stop responding to
his posts. If everyone did that, he might just eventually get bored of it.

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)