| |
Main
Date: 05 Nov 2005 10:33:02
From:
Subject: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
So, my copy of Fritz 9 arrived in the mail yesterday (excellent fast
service from Chess House), and of course I installed it right away.
My question is this: while "The Turk" is visually slick (even if the
moving hand freezes over the board at times) and the full-physics model
of piece movement on full-screen 3d boards is rather astounding (even
if at times it reluctantly recognizes my attempted move) .... why do I
care?
I fail to really understand the trend to larger and larger programs
that have all sorts of graphical doodads, varieties of sound, and
music, and so on.
I thought, perhaps mistakenly, the idea was to play chess.
Of course, Fritz 9 certainly plays chess very well and provides the
usual highly useful analysis and training features. But one thinks
this could have been accomplished, indeed done better, without all the
time and money spent on whiz-bang features that have nothing to do with
playing chess, per se.
|
|
| |
Date: 06 Nov 2005 08:50:04
From:
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
This was exactly my point; considerable time and effort, which
translates into cost, had to have gone into the "fluffy" features.
This either made the product more expensive, or detracted from
additional serious-minded features, or most likely both.
I grudgingly admit to the marketing necessities which perhaps require
some of this largely extraneous content; and I also admit that I
purchased the product with my eyes open. But if you wish to save money
and just get the basics, the comparison between $50 for a flashy Fritz
9 and $0 for a more primitive but still quite workable interface (and
certainly enough playing strength for the vast majority) in the
WinBoard/Crafty combo, among others, is something to consider.
|
| | |
Date: 07 Nov 2005 01:10:48
From: CeeBee
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
chipschap@gmail.com wrote in rec.games.chess.computer:
> This was exactly my point; considerable time and effort, which
> translates into cost, had to have gone into the "fluffy" features.
> This either made the product more expensive, or detracted from
> additional serious-minded features, or most likely both.
All the former releases have been at least as expensive as the current
release. So the "fluffy" features didn't make it more expensive.
Also, the engine hasn't become weaker, but stronger with every new release,
so no distraction there. What "additional serious-minded features" do you
miss in Fritz 9 that were present in Fritz 5, 6 7 or 8, then costing the
same? Fritz 8 had the same price at release, a few years back. So Fritz 9
basically has become cheaper.
--
CeeBee
***Ancient Wisdom in a Crunchy Treat***
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2005 20:47:30
From: Angelo DePalma
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
"CeeBee" <ceebeechester@start.com.au > wrote
> All the former releases have been at least as expensive as the current
> release. So the "fluffy" features didn't make it more expensive.
You're missing the point. Obviously, CB must do *something* to justify a new
release. We are arguing that the improvements are superficial, and therefore
not worth the money.
I can never prove this of course. Nobody from CB ever says anything. We'll
never know the sales of Fritz 9. If I had to guess I'd say that since
version 6 or so sales have stayed about the same. They probably get a
sizable jump after a new release, but sales decay to a steady state or
baseline thereafter.
> Also, the engine hasn't become weaker, but stronger with every new
> release,
> so no distraction there. What "additional serious-minded features" do you
> miss in Fritz 9 that were present in Fritz 5, 6 7 or 8, then costing the
> same? Fritz 8 had the same price at release, a few years back. So Fritz 9
> basically has become cheaper.
No-one is saying that version 6 was better than version 9. Again, that's not
the point. Who cares if the engine plays 2739 now instead of 2703?
In an ideal world the engine gets a bit better with each new release, but
the functionality would improve substantially, noticeably, from version 5,
to 5.2, 6, etc.
It all comes down to: Why pay $49 (a very reasonable price, by the way)
for -- perhaps -- a program that's $5 better? I would pay $149 for a program
with serious training capability.
adp
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Nov 2005 10:03:59
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
Angelo DePalma <angelodpnospam@nospam.gmail.com > wrote:
> "CeeBee" <ceebeechester@start.com.au> wrote
>> All the former releases have been at least as expensive as the current
>> release. So the "fluffy" features didn't make it more expensive.
>
> You're missing the point. Obviously, CB must do *something* to justify a
> new release. We are arguing that the improvements are superficial, and
> therefore not worth the money.
Chess engines these days are so strong that it's unlikely that you'll see
anything other than superficial increases in engine strength. Bug fixes
will be seen by most people as superficial (``Why should I pay you money
to fix things you should have got right before?'') so about the only thing
left is better dumbed-down play. And that's a seriously difficult thing
to do.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Evil Slimy Radio (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ radio but it's covered in goo and
genuinely evil!
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Nov 2005 04:27:54
From: Michael Vondung
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 20:47:30 -0500, Angelo DePalma wrote:
> It all comes down to: Why pay $49 (a very reasonable price, by the way)
> for -- perhaps -- a program that's $5 better?
To encourage further development. There have been games (and books for that
matter) that I bought two identical copies of, only to support the
developer and give them a reason to keep working on the product. Also, I'll
buy every Go program out there just because I want to make it attractive
for companies to put more effort into this area. Small contributions,
certainly.
That said, I think Chessbase rightly counts on the "higher versions number
lure". I am pretty sure that many Fritz owners will get the new version
simply because there *is* a new version, whether or not they actually need
it. New releases also mean new press releases and news articles. Fluff
stuff like the Turk result in even more press coverage. For chess it's a
Good Thing. Now I just wish someone put the same effort into Go software.
*sigh*
M.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 07 Nov 2005 09:22:17
From: Angelo DePalma
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
"Michael Vondung" <mvondung@gmail.com > wrote
> On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 20:47:30 -0500, Angelo DePalma wrote:
>
>> It all comes down to: Why pay $49 (a very reasonable price, by the way)
>> for -- perhaps -- a program that's $5 better?
>
> To encourage further development. There have been games (and books for
> that
> matter) that I bought two identical copies of, only to support the
> developer and give them a reason to keep working on the product.
You're a better man than I am.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 07 Nov 2005 20:17:53
From: Michael Vondung
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 09:22:17 -0500, Angelo DePalma wrote:
> You're a better man than I am.
Just being selfish, really. There are some authors and developers that I
really want to succeed, because I want to see sequels/updates, or new
books.
M.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 08 Nov 2005 09:26:44
From: Angelo DePalma
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
I believe the term is "enlightened self-interest." :)
"Michael Vondung" <mvondung@gmail.com > wrote
>Angelo DePalma wrote:
>
>> You're a better man than I am.
> Just being selfish, really. There are some authors and developers that I
> really want to succeed, because I want to see sequels/updates, or new
> books.
|
| | | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2005 21:12:16
From: Jerry Creed
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
Angelo, I'm roughly in agreement with you, although I wouldn't let it out
that I'd pay 150..............you know what's happened to oil.
My point is this: I have to deal with enough idiots anyway, who know
nothing about chess computation and all that stuff. But if I were to
attempt to show them how a program can analyze the game and find tactical
blows, etc. and they ever catch sight of one of those alien pieces jumping
up and down, they are going to have one very large, Jupitertian laugh on me.
Who's gonna take seriously a chess program with little toy boys in it?
"Angelo DePalma" <angelodpnospam@nospam.gmail.com > wrote in message
news:9eqdnXxf4bimL_PeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
>
>
> "CeeBee" <ceebeechester@start.com.au> wrote
>
>> All the former releases have been at least as expensive as the current
>> release. So the "fluffy" features didn't make it more expensive.
>
> You're missing the point. Obviously, CB must do *something* to justify a
> new release. We are arguing that the improvements are superficial, and
> therefore not worth the money.
>
> I can never prove this of course. Nobody from CB ever says anything. We'll
> never know the sales of Fritz 9. If I had to guess I'd say that since
> version 6 or so sales have stayed about the same. They probably get a
> sizable jump after a new release, but sales decay to a steady state or
> baseline thereafter.
>
>> Also, the engine hasn't become weaker, but stronger with every new
>> release,
>> so no distraction there. What "additional serious-minded features" do you
>> miss in Fritz 9 that were present in Fritz 5, 6 7 or 8, then costing the
>> same? Fritz 8 had the same price at release, a few years back. So Fritz 9
>> basically has become cheaper.
>
> No-one is saying that version 6 was better than version 9. Again, that's
> not the point. Who cares if the engine plays 2739 now instead of 2703?
>
> In an ideal world the engine gets a bit better with each new release, but
> the functionality would improve substantially, noticeably, from version 5,
> to 5.2, 6, etc.
>
> It all comes down to: Why pay $49 (a very reasonable price, by the way)
> for -- perhaps -- a program that's $5 better? I would pay $149 for a
> program with serious training capability.
>
> adp
>
>
|
| | |
Date: 06 Nov 2005 18:29:17
From: Angelo DePalma
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
You hit the nail on the head. CB products are professional-level, or at
least try to be.
When the Fruit guy and the Arena guy get together to work on a bundled
program which addresses chessplayers' needs for analysis, training, and
contex-sensitive (ie handicapped) competition, CB will go out of business.
<chipschap@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1131295804.952960.244420@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> This was exactly my point; considerable time and effort, which
> translates into cost, had to have gone into the "fluffy" features.
> This either made the product more expensive, or detracted from
> additional serious-minded features, or most likely both.
>
> I grudgingly admit to the marketing necessities which perhaps require
> some of this largely extraneous content; and I also admit that I
> purchased the product with my eyes open. But if you wish to save money
> and just get the basics, the comparison between $50 for a flashy Fritz
> 9 and $0 for a more primitive but still quite workable interface (and
> certainly enough playing strength for the vast majority) in the
> WinBoard/Crafty combo, among others, is something to consider.
>
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2005 21:11:11
From: Jerry Creed
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
I perfectly agree with you about the bullshit that has become of Fritz. The
Turk and Mia graphics are shitty on my system, freezing all over the place.
The other board options are too much trouble to configure. The 2D boards,
especially gris with crystal pieces are great. The analysis is good,
accurate I suppose. I'm playing rated games and losing every one but still
holding at 1700 after 25 -30 games and I am now an Ambitioned Chess Player,
whatever the hell that is.
I also just bought Hiarcs 9 on the promise that the positional play is
something to behold. I haven't worked with it as extensively, having just
received Fritz and Hiarcs this past week, I still need food and sleep and I
have a life, etc.
Chessbase is going to do whatever they decide will effect their bottom line
most positively. I remember articles, ads and other testimonials from guys
like Kasparov and a few others, you know, Fritz is strong and the choice of
the professional player. I wonder if Garry will recommend it now, you know,
recommend the freezing Turk and the hopping, jumping graphics that take half
the night to configure. I can't see it. But then he's out of chess for
now, right?
I just want a strong chess program to play with, learn, challenge, etc. I
hate what they have done to our Fritz and its not like they don't know,
don't know the crappy, showbiz type of schlock they're putting out. Or,
could it be that they just have no concept of good taste. Or, could it be a
form of publish or perish in that unless they come up with something new and
fabulous to make the market swoon, they won't be there anymore?
We can be sure of one thing. There will someday
be............................Fritz10!!!
<chipschap@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1131215582.522617.265720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> So, my copy of Fritz 9 arrived in the mail yesterday (excellent fast
> service from Chess House), and of course I installed it right away.
>
> My question is this: while "The Turk" is visually slick (even if the
> moving hand freezes over the board at times) and the full-physics model
> of piece movement on full-screen 3d boards is rather astounding (even
> if at times it reluctantly recognizes my attempted move) .... why do I
> care?
>
> I fail to really understand the trend to larger and larger programs
> that have all sorts of graphical doodads, varieties of sound, and
> music, and so on.
>
> I thought, perhaps mistakenly, the idea was to play chess.
>
> Of course, Fritz 9 certainly plays chess very well and provides the
> usual highly useful analysis and training features. But one thinks
> this could have been accomplished, indeed done better, without all the
> time and money spent on whiz-bang features that have nothing to do with
> playing chess, per se.
>
|
| | |
Date: 07 Nov 2005 09:56:17
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
Jerry Creed <jerrycreed@comcast.net > wrote:
> Chessbase is going to do whatever they decide will effect their bottom
> line most positively. I remember articles, ads and other testimonials
> from guys like Kasparov and a few others, you know, Fritz is strong and
> the choice of the professional player. I wonder if Garry will recommend
> it now, you know, recommend the freezing Turk and the hopping, jumping
> graphics that take half the night to configure.
Kasparov will look at the strength of the engine and recommend it on that
basis if at all. If he doesn't like the flashy graphics, he'll turn them
off and you should too.
> I just want a strong chess program to play with, learn, challenge,
> etc.
You already have one.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Swiss Electronic Sword (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a razor-sharp blade but it
uses electricity and it's made in
Switzerland!
|
| | |
Date: 06 Nov 2005 05:32:45
From: CeeBee
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
"Jerry Creed" <jerrycreed@comcast.net > wrote in rec.games.chess.computer:
> I perfectly agree with you about the bullshit that has become of Fritz.
> The Turk and Mia graphics are shitty on my system, freezing all over the
> place. The other board options are too much trouble to configure. The
> 2D boards, especially gris with crystal pieces are great. The analysis
> is good, accurate I suppose. I'm playing rated games and losing every
> one but still holding at 1700 after 25 -30 games and I am now an
> Ambitioned Chess Player, whatever the hell that is.
>
> I also just bought Hiarcs 9 on the promise that the positional play is
> something to behold. I haven't worked with it as extensively, having
> just received Fritz and Hiarcs this past week, I still need food and
> sleep and I have a life, etc.
>
> Chessbase is going to do whatever they decide will effect their bottom
> line most positively. I remember articles, ads and other testimonials
> from guys like Kasparov and a few others, you know, Fritz is strong and
> the choice of the professional player. I wonder if Garry will recommend
> it now, you know, recommend the freezing Turk and the hopping, jumping
> graphics that take half the night to configure. I can't see it. But
> then he's out of chess for now, right?
>
> I just want a strong chess program to play with, learn, challenge, etc.
> I hate what they have done to our Fritz and its not like they don't
> know, don't know the crappy, showbiz type of schlock they're putting
> out. Or, could it be that they just have no concept of good taste.
> Or, could it be a form of publish or perish in that unless they come up
> with something new and fabulous to make the market swoon, they won't be
> there anymore?
>
> We can be sure of one thing. There will someday
> be............................Fritz10!!!
ChessMaster is a program with a lot of these similar features and has been
doing very well for years and years. 3D boards with reptiles and insects,
nuts and bolts, weird opponents to play against. For everyone here asking
about removal of fluff there's a message asking about where to get the
"extra crystal chess set in the spanish room in "Fritz X".
Both parties are being catered more and more, you as well as the others. I
wonder what your problem is. Why bickering over Turk or Mia graphics
freezing when you're only interested in a very strong engine? Fritz 9 is a
very strong engine to play with, learn, challenge, so you got what you
wanted and I don't get what exactly your problem is.
Make your interface as clean and simple as possible and tax Fritz 9 to the
limit. Or run it in any GUI you prefer prior to this GUI, and it'll run.
Let the fluff for those who want the fluff. Use of it is not compulsory.
--
CeeBee
***Ancient Wisdom in a Crunchy Treat***
|
| | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2005 01:23:32
From: Angelo DePalma
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
The problem is that programming time and effort was wasted on features that
do not interest most serious chess players. This effort could have been
devoted to making Fritz a better, more functional, more robust, less buggy
training partner. I have purchased every version of Fritz from 5.0 through
8, plus Shredder 7 and ChessBase 7-9. The media system is the only
significant improvement I've seen over the years. The negatives are too
numerous to mention. For example, I'm much more interested in reliable,
user-friendly, functional handicapping, printing/publishing, and other
training features than snazzy graphics. Serious players purchase these
programs with the expectation that their chess will improve, not to be
intertained by the Turk.
"CeeBee" <ceebeechester@start.com.au > wrote
> Both parties are being catered more and more, you as well as the others. I
> wonder what your problem is. Why bickering over Turk or Mia graphics
> freezing when you're only interested in a very strong engine? Fritz 9 is a
> very strong engine to play with, learn, challenge, so you got what you
> wanted and I don't get what exactly your problem is.
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Nov 2005 09:59:20
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
Angelo DePalma <angelodpnospam@nospam.gmail.com > wrote:
> The problem is that programming time and effort was wasted on features
> that do not interest most serious chess players. This effort could have
> been devoted to making Fritz a better, more functional, more robust,
> less buggy training partner.
I very much doubt that The Turk was written by the same people who do the
engine. Although salary bills are, of course, an issue, having more
people working on the user interface does not detract from the quality of
the engine programming team.
> I have purchased every version of Fritz from 5.0 through 8, plus
> Shredder 7 and ChessBase 7-9. The media system is the only significant
> improvement I've seen over the years. The negatives are too numerous to
> mention.
Why do you keep paying money for the software, then? We're back in the
``Doctor, it hurts every time I do this'' situation.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Expensive Dictator (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ totalitarian leader but it'll break
the bank!
|
| | | | | |
Date: 07 Nov 2005 09:21:15
From: Angelo DePalma
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
I've decided I will no longer purchase upgrades for those programs unless
they incorporate the features I want. I was "tricked" -- perhaps too strong
a word -- into buying Shredder 7 because I believed CB had finally addressed
the need for training capability. They didn't. The opening training is
extremely buggy and limited, and the endgame training is an embarassment. I
purchased CB 9 because I believed it would be more stable than CB 8. It
is -- barely -- but it still causes my computer to freeze.
"David Richerby" <davidr@chiark.greenend.org.uk > wrote
> Why do you keep paying money for the software, then? We're back in the
> ``Doctor, it hurts every time I do this'' situation.
|
| | | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2005 10:03:57
From: Karl Müller
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
They should offer the engine alone for less money, so that we can play it on
arena or chess base and avoid
these 3D-sheet, or make an extra program for kids and one for chessplayers.
If they do one day, I will buy again. In the past I bought every Fritz as a
must have program.
But Fritz 9 is absolutly not for me.
"Angelo DePalma" <angelodpnospam@nospam.gmail.com > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:stCcnS90xLj1PPDeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
> The problem is that programming time and effort was wasted on features
> that do not interest most serious chess players. This effort could have
> been devoted to making Fritz a better, more functional, more robust, less
> buggy training partner. I have purchased every version of Fritz from 5.0
> through 8, plus Shredder 7 and ChessBase 7-9. The media system is the only
> significant improvement I've seen over the years. The negatives are too
> numerous to mention. For example, I'm much more interested in reliable,
> user-friendly, functional handicapping, printing/publishing, and other
> training features than snazzy graphics. Serious players purchase these
> programs with the expectation that their chess will improve, not to be
> intertained by the Turk.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2005 18:25:14
From: Angelo DePalma
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
You can already get the last free version of Fruit for free. It's probably
as good as Fritz 7-8. It's certainly as good as Shredder 7.
adp
"Karl Müller" <Umberto@Telering.at > wrote in message
news:dkkgv6$b8u$1@mmailnews02.mgmt.1012internet.at...
> They should offer the engine alone for less money, so that we can play it
> on arena or chess base and avoid
> these 3D-sheet, or make an extra program for kids and one for
> chessplayers.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2005 19:14:09
From: Michael Vondung
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 10:03:57 +0100, Karl Müller wrote:
> They should offer the engine alone for less money,
Am I the only one who thinks that 49 Euro is already a very low price for a
game/software that you use constantly and spend a lot of time with? If you
just want a strong engine, I think Fruit is a bit less expensive (and
reportedly stronger than Fritz 9).
As for the thread: Personally, I see nothing wrong with making chess
software more attractive for a broader, more casual audience. Then again, I
am a gamer and have a machine that doesn't choke on 3D stuff.
M.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2005 23:34:04
From: Karl Müller
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
> Am I the only one who thinks that 49 Euro is already a very low price for
> a
> game/software that you use constantly and spend a lot of time with?
The price is OK if everything runs well. No doubt about it.
> If you just want a strong engine, I think Fruit is a bit less expensive
> (and
> reportedly stronger than Fritz 9).
I don´t believe Fruit to be stronger than Fritz 9 or even Shredder 9, sorry
and I don´t want to pay first and later I the key to run it. Its great to
get it on
CD and pay after recept, the old fashioned way.
>
> As for the thread: Personally, I see nothing wrong with making chess
> software more attractive for a broader, more casual audience.
Chessbase image was to be professional, not primarly for kids.
Thats the reason why I never bought CM and loved to work with Chessbase.
But why not two versions in the future?
One home edtition for a broader market, one professional edition for real
chessplayers.
> Then again, I am a gamer and have a machine that doesn't choke on 3D
> stuff.
Great for You, after the latest GUI updates, my machine does also well with
the 3D stuff. But for me its only bullsheet. I want to analyse games on high
level, improve my openings, find out blunder and be delighted on great
moves.
Elbro
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 07 Nov 2005 01:04:38
From: CeeBee
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
"Karl Müller" <Umberto@Telering.at > wrote in rec.games.chess.computer:
> Great for You, after the latest GUI updates, my machine does also well
> with the 3D stuff. But for me its only bullsheet. I want to analyse
> games on high level, improve my openings, find out blunder and be
> delighted on great moves.
.... which Fritz 9 does. You got yourself the newer engine you wanted, with
some extra ballast you don't have to use for the same price as the previous
release without the fluff.
Now exactly what's the problem?
--
CeeBee
***Ancient Wisdom in a Crunchy Treat***
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 06 Nov 2005 20:54:03
From: Jerry Creed
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
CeeBee. Are you being too reasonable, like father knows best? We want to
feel like real contenders, not treated like cub scouts at Lollipop Land.
"Hi there, wanted to show you my 100% genuine Dick Tracy Chess Program.
You'll have to forgive his funny name, Frrrittttzzzzzz and please don't let
the little rubber chess pieces suggest anything about my level of maturity,
sexuality or my ability to pick out a game appropriate for an ADULT!!!"
"No I am not a prevert.................I don't even play with
Mia..................no, I do not have any nude shots of her.............no,
the Turk is not a blow up doll."
"Hi, honey, I have some nice little chess people that you can play with, he
he he he, yes, just follow me home. My name is Michael!
"CeeBee" <ceebeechester@start.com.au > wrote in message
news:Xns97071521C9F44ceebeechesterstartco@213.75.12.165...
> "Karl Müller" <Umberto@Telering.at> wrote in rec.games.chess.computer:
>
>
>> Great for You, after the latest GUI updates, my machine does also well
>> with the 3D stuff. But for me its only bullsheet. I want to analyse
>> games on high level, improve my openings, find out blunder and be
>> delighted on great moves.
>
> .... which Fritz 9 does. You got yourself the newer engine you wanted,
> with
> some extra ballast you don't have to use for the same price as the
> previous
> release without the fluff.
>
> Now exactly what's the problem?
>
>
> --
> CeeBee
>
> ***Ancient Wisdom in a Crunchy Treat***
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2005 13:36:37
From: Inconnux
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
is the analysis and training improved? I own Fritz7 and 8 and am
debating whether it is worthwhile
to pick up version 9
J.Lohner
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2005 20:49:01
From: The Man Behind The Curtain
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
While this alone would not make me buy it, and I have no interest in the
stupid Turk, I am wondering if they fixed bugs such as clocks that don't
remember the time in the current game after you save and quit.
John
--
Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
|
| | |
Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2005 19:45:13
From: GSV Three Minds in a Can
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
Bitstring <1131215582.522617.265720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com >, from
the wonderful person chipschap@gmail.com said
<snip >
>I thought, perhaps mistakenly, the idea was to play chess.
Go to the bottom of the class. It's been obvious for ages that most game
developers think that 'frills sell', also known as 'nice form, shame
about the function'.
It's a pity if it has reached Fritz (well actually it's been there a
while - I mean who needs a =talking= chess program?) but it's pretty
apparent that for most computer games the visuals and noises long ago
eclipsed any concept of actual =game play=.
--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.
|
| | |
Date: 07 Nov 2005 09:51:09
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
GSV Three Minds in a Can <GSV@quik.clara.co.uk > wrote:
> I mean who needs a =talking= chess program?
If you have a DGT board, you can use that and the talking feature to avoid
having to use the screen during games.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Indelible Radio (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ radio but it can't be erased!
|
| |
Date: 05 Nov 2005 19:14:43
From: Terry
Subject: Re: Fluff in Fritz 9
|
<chipschap@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1131215582.522617.265720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> So, my copy of Fritz 9 arrived in the mail yesterday (excellent fast
> service from Chess House), and of course I installed it right away.
>
> My question is this: while "The Turk" is visually slick (even if the
> moving hand freezes over the board at times) and the full-physics model
> of piece movement on full-screen 3d boards is rather astounding (even
> if at times it reluctantly recognizes my attempted move) .... why do I
> care?
>
> I fail to really understand the trend to larger and larger programs
> that have all sorts of graphical doodads, varieties of sound, and
> music, and so on.
>
> I thought, perhaps mistakenly, the idea was to play chess.
>
> Of course, Fritz 9 certainly plays chess very well and provides the
> usual highly useful analysis and training features. But one thinks
> this could have been accomplished, indeed done better, without all the
> time and money spent on whiz-bang features that have nothing to do with
> playing chess, per se.
>
It the fluff that sells.
Regards
|
|
