Main
Date: 22 Aug 2007 02:19:27
From: Sanny
Subject: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
Yesterday GetClub Chess came Online after a few improvements.

I tried to test it against Ludoplayer which says itself as Worlds
Strongest Game.

Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

I tried playing and to my Surprise GetClub.com Beginner Level beat the
Ludoplayer. I am typing below the Game Played between Beginner Level
and Ludochess.

If Beginner is so good then how good are

Easy Level
Normal Level
Master Level
and Advance Levels.

I feel the Players will get tough Competition with even the Beginner
Level.

I played 7 Games and Lost all of them. Then I used Worlds Strongest
Game against GetClub Begineer Level and to my surprise The GetClub.com
Won the Game.!!!.

Here is the Game Played.

Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
White: GetClub.com (Beginner Level)
Black: Ludo Chess
Recorded Game at:
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM7573&game=Chess

1. d4 Nf6
2. c4 g6
3. Nc3 c5
4. Bg5 Qb6
5. Nf3 Qb2
6. Nb5 Bh6
7.Bh6 e5
8. e5 Ng4
9. Bg7 Rg8
10. Qb1 Qb1
11. Rb1 Na6
12.Bf6 Kf8
13. Nd6 h6
14. e4 Nb4
15. Rb2 b6
16. Bd8 Nc6
17. Bh4 Ne5
18. Be2 Nf3
19. f3 g5
20. Nc8 Rc8
21. Bg3 Nd4
22. Be5 Ne2
23. Re2 Ke7
24. Bg3 Rc6
25. h4 Re6
26. g5 g5
27. Rh7 a6
28. Rd2 Rf6
29. Bc7 Rc6
30. Be5 Re6
31. Rg7 Rg7
32. Bg7 f5
33. Rd5 e4
34. Rg5 f3
35. Re5 b5
36. b5 Re5
37. Be5 b5
38. Kd2 d5
39. Bb2 Ke6
40. Kd3 Kf5
41. a4 a4
42. Ba3 c4
43. Kd4 Ke6
44. Bb4 c3
45. Bc3 a3
46. Kc5 a2
47. Bd4 Kf5
48. Kd5 Kg4
49. Ke4 Kh5
50. Kf3 Kg5
51. Ke4 Kg6
52. f4 Kf7
53. Ke5 Kg6
54. f5 Kf7
55. Kd6 Kf8
56. Ke6 Kg8
57. f6 Kh8
58. f7 Kh7
59. f8(Q) a1(Q)
60. Qg7 (CHECK MATE)

Recorded Game:
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM7573&game=Chess

(White Wins.)

Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

And this is how GetClub.com beats worlds Strongest Game. So have fun.
Higher Levels will play even stronger than it.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html





 
Date: 05 Sep 2007 13:09:13
From: Ralf Callenberg
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
22.08.2007 11:19, Sanny:
[x-posting reduced]

> Here is the Game Played.

Jester is indeed quit strong. But the moves it made in this game are
extremely strange. That it makes such a blunder as 6... Bh6 does seem to
be unlikely played by that program. On which level did you put it
(Normal Game or other styles, level, time per move)?

Greetings,
Ralf


 
Date: 24 Aug 2007 08:41:40
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 23, 11:28 pm, Taylor Kingston <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Aug 23, 1:29 pm, help bot <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 23, 3:19 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > I found your Game was not recorded. However I could find arround 10
> > > Games played by other people. So I do not understand why it do not
> > > work on your computer?
>
> > > You took a new username Thats the reasion you were only allowed to
> > > play Beginner & Easy Levels. Once you win 2-3 games with them you can
> > > Play with Normal. And then Master and Then Advance Levels.
>
> > I had trouble with the long winded process of signing
> > up and starting a game. First, I failed to correctly
> > recall my old password, and had to have it emailed to
> > me. Then, after entering the correct password, it was
> > unclear how to get to thechessprogram, to start a
> > game; I wandered around the Web site a while, but
> > finally managed to get there, somehow.
>
> > Even though I had been allowed "in" via my password,
> > it still would not seem t let me play a game until I
> > created a new handle, which only happened because
> > the screen for this popped up in my face. What the
> > heck? I was not getting anywhere so I added or
> > created "help bot", and eventually a screen appeared,
> > asking which color I wanted.
>
> > Other Web sites are annoying in this way too,
> > demanding you join or login with an email thrown into
> > the mix, but other Web sites do not seem to have the
> > inconsistent jumping around at random thatGetClub
> > entails. And the randomized disconnects are really
> > annoying. I suspect that, as discussed many months
> > ago, your Web site does not conform to certain
> > standards, and is essentially buggy. Don't feel bad --
> > Microsoft is number one in the world, and they have
> > always produced buggy software.
>
> > -- help bot
>
> I found it impossible to play a game. After clicking on the "start a
> new game" link, no board appeared. Where the board would normally be,
> was just a blank space with a small "x" in the upper left corner.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes I got the Problem It will be rectified Soon.

Bye
Sanny



 
Date: 24 Aug 2007 08:36:37
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 24, 7:57 pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Aug 24, 9:46 am, Taylor Kingston <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > It means Java is not installed on your System.. Since others are able
> > > to play the game this is what I think.
>
> > Not so; Java _is_ on my system.
>
> Java loads on my system, but I am using the
> Firefox browser, so maybe there is some issue
> with the version of Java which auto-loads and
> the version of Firefox and my OS.
>
> Here's the thing: I have no such troubles on
> otherchessWeb sites, regardless. (That's a
> clue, Sanny).
>
> -- help bot

Are you still unable to login to Play Chess Game? Yesterday you told
you played some game

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html



 
Date: 24 Aug 2007 07:57:50
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 24, 9:46 am, Taylor Kingston <[email protected] > wrote:

> > It means Java is not installed on your System.. Since others are able
> > to play the game this is what I think.
>
> Not so; Java _is_ on my system.

Java loads on my system, but I am using the
Firefox browser, so maybe there is some issue
with the version of Java which auto-loads and
the version of Firefox and my OS.

Here's the thing: I have no such troubles on
other chess Web sites, regardless. (That's a
clue, Sanny).


-- help bot





 
Date: 24 Aug 2007 07:46:17
From: Taylor Kingston
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 24, 1:40 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Aug 23, 11:28 pm, Taylor Kingston <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 23, 1:29 pm, help bot <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 23, 3:19 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > I found your Game was not recorded. However I could find arround 10
> > > > Games played by other people. So I do not understand why it do not
> > > > work on your computer?
>
> > > > You took a new username Thats the reasion you were only allowed to
> > > > play Beginner & Easy Levels. Once you win 2-3 games with them you can
> > > > Play with Normal. And then Master and Then Advance Levels.
>
> > > I had trouble with the long winded process of signing
> > > up and starting a game. First, I failed to correctly
> > > recall my old password, and had to have it emailed to
> > > me. Then, after entering the correct password, it was
> > > unclear how to get to thechessprogram, to start a
> > > game; I wandered around the Web site a while, but
> > > finally managed to get there, somehow.
>
> > > Even though I had been allowed "in" via my password,
> > > it still would not seem t let me play a game until I
> > > created a new handle, which only happened because
> > > the screen for this popped up in my face. What the
> > > heck? I was not getting anywhere so I added or
> > > created "help bot", and eventually a screen appeared,
> > > asking which color I wanted.
>
> > > Other Web sites are annoying in this way too,
> > > demanding you join or login with an email thrown into
> > > the mix, but other Web sites do not seem to have the
> > > inconsistent jumping around at random thatGetClub
> > > entails. And the randomized disconnects are really
> > > annoying. I suspect that, as discussed many months
> > > ago, your Web site does not conform to certain
> > > standards, and is essentially buggy. Don't feel bad --
> > > Microsoft is number one in the world, and they have
> > > always produced buggy software.
>
> > > -- help bot
>
> > I found it impossible to play a game. After clicking on the "start a
> > new game" link, no board appeared. Where the board would normally be,
> > was just a blank space with a small "x" in the upper left corner.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> It means Java is not installed on your System.. Since others are able
> to play the game this is what I think.

Not so; Java _is_ on my system.



 
Date: 24 Aug 2007 03:26:07
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
> Well, I am certainly in no position to judge, being the
> top-rated player in the entire world (at GetClub). ;>D

Were you able to Signup with your Old Nomorechess username?

You can just Signup again with nomorechess as your username. The
Program will automatically join you to your previous account.

Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html

I saw Bonsai doing the same and playing using his old Accounts.

He is rated 6th at GetClub Chess.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html



 
Date: 23 Aug 2007 22:40:08
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 23, 11:28 pm, Taylor Kingston <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Aug 23, 1:29 pm, help bot <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 23, 3:19 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > I found your Game was not recorded. However I could find arround 10
> > > Games played by other people. So I do not understand why it do not
> > > work on your computer?
>
> > > You took a new username Thats the reasion you were only allowed to
> > > play Beginner & Easy Levels. Once you win 2-3 games with them you can
> > > Play with Normal. And then Master and Then Advance Levels.
>
> > I had trouble with the long winded process of signing
> > up and starting a game. First, I failed to correctly
> > recall my old password, and had to have it emailed to
> > me. Then, after entering the correct password, it was
> > unclear how to get to thechessprogram, to start a
> > game; I wandered around the Web site a while, but
> > finally managed to get there, somehow.
>
> > Even though I had been allowed "in" via my password,
> > it still would not seem t let me play a game until I
> > created a new handle, which only happened because
> > the screen for this popped up in my face. What the
> > heck? I was not getting anywhere so I added or
> > created "help bot", and eventually a screen appeared,
> > asking which color I wanted.
>
> > Other Web sites are annoying in this way too,
> > demanding you join or login with an email thrown into
> > the mix, but other Web sites do not seem to have the
> > inconsistent jumping around at random thatGetClub
> > entails. And the randomized disconnects are really
> > annoying. I suspect that, as discussed many months
> > ago, your Web site does not conform to certain
> > standards, and is essentially buggy. Don't feel bad --
> > Microsoft is number one in the world, and they have
> > always produced buggy software.
>
> > -- help bot
>
> I found it impossible to play a game. After clicking on the "start a
> new game" link, no board appeared. Where the board would normally be,
> was just a blank space with a small "x" in the upper left corner.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It means Java is not installed on your System.. Since others are able
to play the game this is what I think.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html



 
Date: 23 Aug 2007 11:28:12
From: Taylor Kingston
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 23, 1:29 pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Aug 23, 3:19 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I found your Game was not recorded. However I could find arround 10
> > Games played by other people. So I do not understand why it do not
> > work on your computer?
>
> > You took a new username Thats the reasion you were only allowed to
> > play Beginner & Easy Levels. Once you win 2-3 games with them you can
> > Play with Normal. And then Master and Then Advance Levels.
>
> I had trouble with the long winded process of signing
> up and starting a game. First, I failed to correctly
> recall my old password, and had to have it emailed to
> me. Then, after entering the correct password, it was
> unclear how to get to the chess program, to start a
> game; I wandered around the Web site a while, but
> finally managed to get there, somehow.
>
> Even though I had been allowed "in" via my password,
> it still would not seem t let me play a game until I
> created a new handle, which only happened because
> the screen for this popped up in my face. What the
> heck? I was not getting anywhere so I added or
> created "help bot", and eventually a screen appeared,
> asking which color I wanted.
>
> Other Web sites are annoying in this way too,
> demanding you join or login with an email thrown into
> the mix, but other Web sites do not seem to have the
> inconsistent jumping around at random that GetClub
> entails. And the randomized disconnects are really
> annoying. I suspect that, as discussed many months
> ago, your Web site does not conform to certain
> standards, and is essentially buggy. Don't feel bad --
> Microsoft is number one in the world, and they have
> always produced buggy software.
>
> -- help bot

I found it impossible to play a game. After clicking on the "start a
new game" link, no board appeared. Where the board would normally be,
was just a blank space with a small "x" in the upper left corner.



 
Date: 23 Aug 2007 10:29:06
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 23, 3:19 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:

> I found your Game was not recorded. However I could find arround 10
> Games played by other people. So I do not understand why it do not
> work on your computer?
>
> You took a new username Thats the reasion you were only allowed to
> play Beginner & Easy Levels. Once you win 2-3 games with them you can
> Play with Normal. And then Master and Then Advance Levels.


I had trouble with the long winded process of signing
up and starting a game. First, I failed to correctly
recall my old password, and had to have it emailed to
me. Then, after entering the correct password, it was
unclear how to get to the chess program, to start a
game; I wandered around the Web site a while, but
finally managed to get there, somehow.

Even though I had been allowed "in" via my password,
it still would not seem t let me play a game until I
created a new handle, which only happened because
the screen for this popped up in my face. What the
heck? I was not getting anywhere so I added or
created "help bot", and eventually a screen appeared,
asking which color I wanted.

Other Web sites are annoying in this way too,
demanding you join or login with an email thrown into
the mix, but other Web sites do not seem to have the
inconsistent jumping around at random that GetClub
entails. And the randomized disconnects are really
annoying. I suspect that, as discussed many months
ago, your Web site does not conform to certain
standards, and is essentially buggy. Don't feel bad --
Microsoft is number one in the world, and they have
always produced buggy software.


-- help bot





 
Date: 23 Aug 2007 10:18:12
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 23, 3:02 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:

> My site gives Prizes every month. So if you are a good player among
> Top 10. You virtually get Games for Free. You can play 100s of games
> at site without paying for free if you are good player.
>
> If you are not good enough then only you need to purchase more games.
> So my site gives free games to Top Players.
>
> For weak players they can play 30 Games for Free. That is enough I
> think.


Well, I am certainly in no position to judge, being the
top-rated player in the entire world (at GetClub). ; >D



 
Date: 23 Aug 2007 10:16:08
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 23, 2:59 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:

> > ... Bh6??
>
> > This move just gives away a piece for no reason.
> > Even blindfold, I could see that. Could this be a
> > case of operator error, or a software malfunction?
>
> There was no move which could save Black at this point. I found The
> other move of King to save the fork was also not as good.


Even so, Black should put up his strongest defense
and not give away anything; White must be forced to
"pry it from cold, dead hands".



> And how the Queen could be trapped please tell those moves?


It's complicated on account of all the other things
going on. White can play p-a3, removing the b4
square as a safe retreat. Generally speaking, the
Rook will do the attacking of the Queen, and so
Black will get at least a Rook for his Queen.

Going after the *undeveloped* Rook on h8 makes
it harder to trap the Queen, if not impossible, since
the Bishop was the preferred piece to interpose at
d2 on any Queen check at c3 or b4 as she flees
the White Rook's attacks or even an attack by one
of the White Knights.


When I tried Jester several months ago, it played
very well and never gave away any pieces like you
say it did against your program. So what is this
Ludochess you keep talking about, and when you
test your own program, do you avert the problems
by playing the program on your own computer, as
one might do with Fritz or Shredder? On my
computer, the Java applet is very slow to load and
has intermittent "issues", like speeding up and
slowing down, or just freezing.


-- help bot







 
Date: 23 Aug 2007 06:15:41
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 22, 11:42 pm, Macchess <[email protected] > wrote:
> Sanny a =E9crit :
>
> > Here is my Ratings.
>
> > Beginner: 1500
> > Easy: 1600
> > Normal: 1700
> > Master: 1800
>
> > I wish above ratings are correct.
>
> Well, they are not.
> Beginner is at about 1100.
> Draw by lack of material is not recognised.
> Draw by 50 moves rule is not recognised.
> If you play very fast, it crashes.
> The screen flashes all the time on Safari.
> The login-credentials are not retained.
> And, there is an anoying sound...
>
> Best regards,

Beginner is weak So one should play with higher levels.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html



 
Date: 23 Aug 2007 01:30:59
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!

> After some trouble logging on, having forgotten my
> old password, etc., etc., I finally get a game going
> under a new handle (help bot). The program seems

You can getback your old Profile by Updating your Username

http://www.getclub.com/Update/Updateit.php?lang=en&upd=username

At above site Login and Change your username to nomorechess and then
you can use your Old Account.

Or Just Signup a new Account with username nomorechess.

Bye
Sanny.



 
Date: 23 Aug 2007 01:19:18
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
> To sum up, the program is too weak for me, and
> the other site issues are not worth all the trouble it
> takes to play half of one game, only to get
> disconnected at random (or perhaps because I was
> winning?).
>
I found your Game was not recorded. However I could find arround 10
Games played by other people. So I do not understand why it do not
work on your computer?

You took a new username Thats the reasion you were only allowed to
play Beginner & Easy Levels. Once you win 2-3 games with them you can
Play with Normal. And then Master and Then Advance Levels.

Beginner & Easy Levels are for newcommers. For you Normal & Master
will be challenging.

I saw recorded games at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html Played by
other Players.

I found yesterday few players played, but all played with beginner
Level which plays in 2-10 seconds.

But as you are good players I think you should beat 2-3 games and play
with Higher Levels.

The Game Resource Hog problem was removed. The Game Play will also be
improved by looking at your suggestions. Did you find the Program
using less resources or not?

Bye
Sanny.





 
Date: 23 Aug 2007 01:02:53
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
>
> But enough about ratings. Your real problem is
> that you are attempting to charge money to play
> games, which is a strategy that won't work. Look
> at the other sites on the Web: they allow non-
> members to play for free, but hit them with a ton

My site gives Prizes every month. So if you are a good player among
Top 10. You virtually get Games for Free. You can play 100s of games
at site without paying for free if you are good player.

If you are not good enough then only you need to purchase more games.
So my site gives free games to Top Players.

For weak players they can play 30 Games for Free. That is enough I
think.

Bye
Sanny.

Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html



 
Date: 23 Aug 2007 00:59:01
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
> ... Bh6??
>
> This move just gives away a piece for no reason.
> Even blindfold, I could see that. Could this be a
> case of operator error, or a software malfunction?

There was no move which could save Black at this point. I found The
other move of King to save the fork was also not as good.

And how the Queen could be trapped please tell those moves?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html



 
Date: 23 Aug 2007 00:56:30
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 23, 12:30 am, "Ruud" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "Sanny" <[email protected]> schreef in berichtnews:[email protected]...
>
> >> I'm just hoping he's not making up lists himself to 'prove' he's better
> >> than
> >> the rest.
>
> > Surely I do not know about those games. There are lots and lots of
> > Chess games arround.
>
> > So I would say, It was First Time GetClub Chess beat any other Chess
> > Program. Earlier It was unable to beat even me. Now it is beating even
> > other Chess Programs. May be later It challenges the Toppers.
>
> As you yourself hopefully understand: it's not saying a lot if your program
> beats another program (or beats you for that matter).
> Telling apart selfproclaimed top-programmers from actual ones is what
> matters, and you seem to have failed there by not producing an worthy
> opponent in your 'strongest game' statement.

Yes, Thats my mistake.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html



  
Date: 23 Aug 2007 15:21:37
From: Ruud
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!

"Sanny" <[email protected] > schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> On Aug 23, 12:30 am, "Ruud" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Sanny" <[email protected]> schreef in
>> berichtnews:[email protected]...
>>
>> >> I'm just hoping he's not making up lists himself to 'prove' he's
>> >> better
>> >> than
>> >> the rest.
>>
>> > Surely I do not know about those games. There are lots and lots of
>> > Chess games arround.
>>
>> > So I would say, It was First Time GetClub Chess beat any other Chess
>> > Program. Earlier It was unable to beat even me. Now it is beating even
>> > other Chess Programs. May be later It challenges the Toppers.
>>
>> As you yourself hopefully understand: it's not saying a lot if your
>> program
>> beats another program (or beats you for that matter).
>> Telling apart selfproclaimed top-programmers from actual ones is what
>> matters, and you seem to have failed there by not producing an worthy
>> opponent in your 'strongest game' statement.
>
> Yes, Thats my mistake.

Can I just ask what level of play you yourself have?
What's your Fide-elo-rating? What's the chessknowledge you have?




 
Date: 22 Aug 2007 20:56:12
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 22, 4:50 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:

> So Nomorechess, Taylor Kingston, Bob, Chrisf, Zebediah WHERE ARE YOU.


Okay, so eventually I went and tried to play some
more chess at Getclub.com, and here's what
happened:

After some trouble logging on, having forgotten my
old password, etc., etc., I finally get a game going
under a new handle (help bot). The program seems
to have no openings book, and at move three is
already slowed to a crawl on the second-weakest
level (I had to choose between weakest or second-
weakest, others were unselectable). I took Black:

1.e3 c5

2.Qf3? Nc6

3.Bb5 Nb4

4.Na3 a6

5.a3 axb5

6.axb4 cb

7.Nxb5 Ra5

8.a4 bxa e.p.

9.Nc3 axb2

10.Bxb2 Rxa1+

11.Bxa1 Qa5

12.Bb2 Qb4

13.Bc1

(the memory fades...)

After a couple more moves, I was up a pawn on the
Queen-side and was permanently preventing White
from castling. At one point, White made yet another
dumb Queen move but one which threatened mate on
the move! Nice. I got castled and was about to swing
my Rook to the a-file for a routine King assault (...R-a1,
say goodnight, Gracie) when the program disconnected
me. I checked and there was nothing wrong with my
internet connection. Strange. The program had been
moving at a fairly reasonable speed, though its moves
hardly impressed.

The good news is the program did not toss away
material that easily, and seemed tactically alert. The
bad news is that it plays poorly, slowly, and there
seem to be disconnection issues. The Java applet
took quite a while to load, and only after I had already
given up on it did the chess board suddenly appear,
ready to rumble. Someone with a faster connection
might have better luck than I did in this game.

To sum up, the program is too weak for me, and
the other site issues are not worth all the trouble it
takes to play half of one game, only to get
disconnected at random (or perhaps because I was
winning?).


-- help bot











 
Date: 22 Aug 2007 14:48:00
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 22, 12:14 pm, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:

> Bobby Fisher is same as Taylor Kingston.

!?!?!


> He is Second best player at
> GetClub after you. IM Innes have not played much games at GetClub So I
> can't say much about him.
>
> Nomorechess Still holds the Crown. Chrisf and Zebediah may Challege
> your Crown As they are the most Aggresive Players I have seen. They
> are driving against the wind.
>
> When Taylor kingston and you used to play Chess at GetClub.com It was
> easy to increase rating You used to get +10 for winning a weak
> beginner Player.

In fact, it seems that those lucky ones who showed
up first had the best of things. As every level began
with a rating of 1000 and was thereafter driven down,
the ones who played rated games *first* gained by far
the most "easy" rating points, not only from the
program, but from anyone they played who had
played it as well.

When I began playing a lot of games, most levels
not only were already driven into the dirt by Taylor
Kingston (among others) having clobbered them
repeatedly, but in addition, your "improvements" had
a significant impact on the strength of the program.

In fact, when the program seemed to me to have
made some real improvement (not just claimed),
this is when most of the old timers stopped playing
rated games, or else switched IDs. Later on, the
"improvements" went in the wrong direction, or else
went in random directions, like a bubble floating in
the wind.

Really, you can't continually make drastic changes
to a chess program and have meaningful ratings. In
addition, you should never have started all the levels
at the same rating -- that is ludicrous. If you must
make drastic changes to the program, its rating
should be reset or else it should be considered as
a new, unrated player until its strength is known.

Think hard: when I beat your program, does it get
any weaker? No, so then, why does its rating drop?
This makes no sense. The computers ought to have
fixed ratings, and not be toyed with. If you want to
tweak level X, then enter level X as a new, unrated
player whose rating will be determined by its results,
and then *fixed* there. Simple.

------

But enough about ratings. Your real problem is
that you are attempting to charge money to play
games, which is a strategy that won't work. Look
at the other sites on the Web: they allow non-
members to play for free, but hit them with a ton
of advertisements while offering to remove them
if you pay to join. They also limit the number of
games unless you pay, and they restrict options
such as starting rated games or analyzing on
another board -- whatever. But none of the ones
I have tried force anyone to pay to play; instead,
what they do is force you to look at annoying ads
until you do. That "business model", as they call
it these days, is working. Yours isn't.


Right now I am playing Rob Mitchell some games
at chessworld.net, which seems to me to be a bit
inferior to redhotpawn.com in terms of how moves
are entered. But they have team play, and who
knows what else (I don't pay to play). In fact, they
offer free months to those who sign up friends, and
this seems to be working, just as you would expect.
Such ideas are easy to find, if you simply were to
explore the Web sites of your competition. See
what you like, and copy the concept on your own
site. Then discard your chess program and in its
place install Crafty 0.01 or something. ; >D


-- help bot








 
Date: 22 Aug 2007 14:10:53
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 22, 12:05 pm, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:

> > > 4. Bg5 Qb6
>
> > Uh oh. Something went wrong with the programs'
> > parameters; now they are playing like idiots. :>(
>
> Why was Bg5 a wrong Move? Could you explain what was the better move
> and Why Bg5 is wrong. So that so that in future it do not move Bg5.


Okay. After the moves:

1.d4 Nf6

2.c4 g6

3.Nc3 c5

...we are heading toward the Benoni or some other
Indian defense, and White can either take on c5, defend
it with Nf3, or push on past, taking a space advantage in
the center.

But 4.Bg5 allows Black to take on d4, whereupon things
start to go awry; unless White wants an imbalanced
position at any cost, as after Bxf6 exf6, Qxd4 Nc6, Qe3+,
he would do better to not defend the d-pawn with his Queen,
because the Queen can get bounced around by any other
piece (except a King or another Queen).

Black can also just play ...Bg7, where White has
committed his QB to g5 very, very early. What's so
special about this particular square for the QB? Well,
I suspect it nets a bonus score for the aggressive pin.

But let's have a look at Black's reply, which also
seems computer-bad:

4.Bg5 Qb6

Black is hoping to grab the b2-pawn, but this is a
very risky strategy. "Never take the QN-pawn with
the Queen", a famous quotation reads. Again, the
early Queen foray most often leads to trouble, and
it comes from jousting with much lesser men, a
strategy which can needlessly lead to severe
wounds. (Does a bear try to run off a pack of
hungry wolves who have stolen his kill? No,
because even though he can, the risk of injury is
very high.) In all likelihood, the Black Queen will
soon find herself moving to a new address, again.

But let me look a bit deeper this time, now that I
have a chess board to look at and am not just
winging it blindfold.

5.Nf3 Qxb2

6.Nb5

White is well ahead in piece development, but he
must deal with a few tactical problems. The central
issue though, is Black's indisposed Queen and the
immediate threat of a fork at c7.

... Bh6??

This move just gives away a piece for no reason.
Even blindfold, I could see that. Could this be a
case of operator error, or a software malfunction?

7.Bxh6 e5

Another giveaway. Look Sanny, nobody is going
to believe that your program can beat Jester, or
whatever it is called, based on such moves as
these. It smacks of you making stuff up, or a
whole series of malfunctions.

8.dxe5 Ng4

9.Bg7 Rg8

The Black Queen was trapped, but these moves
just let her out of the box in pursuit of undeveloped
junk in some distant corner.

10.Qb1

One of the worst moves on the board. Apart from
the self-mates, like e3?? and e4??, this move lets
the Queen escape AND hangs the Bishop on g7,
in one fell swoop -- quite an achievement!

Enough analysis for now. Let me just say that
my blindfold comments picked on the wrong moves,
since in comparison to this middle game, the
opening was played magnificently.


-- help bot















> What do you think is the rating of Improved Game?
>
> Here is my Ratings.
>
> Beginner: 1500
> Easy: 1600
> Normal: 1700
> Master: 1800
>
> I wish above ratings are correct.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html




 
Date: 22 Aug 2007 11:01:33
From: Rob
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 22, 12:14 pm, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > > Yesterday GetClub Chess came Online after a few improvements.
>
> > > I tried to test it against Ludoplayer which says itself as Worlds
> > > Strongest Game.
>
> > Hmm... not IM Innes? And not Bobby Fischer? But
> > Ludoplayer, eh? We'll see. BTW, has anybody ever
> > heard of Ludoplayer before? I haven't. (Don't tell Sanny,
> > but the world's strongest chess program is actually
> > Rybka.)
>
> Bobby Fisher is same as Taylor Kingston. He is Second best player at
> GetClub after you. IM Innes have not played much games at GetClub So I
> can't say much about him.
>
> Nomorechess Still holds the Crown. Chrisf and Zebediah may Challege
> your Crown As they are the most Aggresive Players I have seen. They
> are driving against the wind.
>
> When Taylor kingston and you used to play Chess at GetClub.com It was
> easy to increase rating You used to get +10 for winning a weak
> beginner Player.
>
> Now you get +2 for Winning with Beginner as Beginner has gone down.
>
> Since The game has improved I am going to see the Beginner again
> reaching 1000+ rating in future.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html

didnt play Zed



 
Date: 22 Aug 2007 10:14:53
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
> > Yesterday GetClub Chess came Online after a few improvements.
>
> > I tried to test it against Ludoplayer which says itself as Worlds
> > Strongest Game.
>
> Hmm... not IM Innes? And not Bobby Fischer? But
> Ludoplayer, eh? We'll see. BTW, has anybody ever
> heard of Ludoplayer before? I haven't. (Don't tell Sanny,
> but the world's strongest chess program is actually
> Rybka.)
>

Bobby Fisher is same as Taylor Kingston. He is Second best player at
GetClub after you. IM Innes have not played much games at GetClub So I
can't say much about him.

Nomorechess Still holds the Crown. Chrisf and Zebediah may Challege
your Crown As they are the most Aggresive Players I have seen. They
are driving against the wind.

When Taylor kingston and you used to play Chess at GetClub.com It was
easy to increase rating You used to get +10 for winning a weak
beginner Player.

Now you get +2 for Winning with Beginner as Beginner has gone down.

Since The game has improved I am going to see the Beginner again
reaching 1000+ rating in future.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html



 
Date: 22 Aug 2007 10:05:29
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
> > 4. Bg5 Qb6
>
> Uh oh. Something went wrong with the programs'
> parameters; now they are playing like idiots. :>(
>

Why was Bg5 a wrong Move? Could you explain what was the better move
and Why Bg5 is wrong. So that so that in future it do not move Bg5.

What do you think is the rating of Improved Game?

Here is my Ratings.

Beginner: 1500
Easy: 1600
Normal: 1700
Master: 1800

I wish above ratings are correct.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html



  
Date: 22 Aug 2007 18:42:23
From: Macchess
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
Sanny a �crit :
> Here is my Ratings.
>
> Beginner: 1500
> Easy: 1600
> Normal: 1700
> Master: 1800
>
> I wish above ratings are correct.

Well, they are not.
Beginner is at about 1100.
Draw by lack of material is not recognised.
Draw by 50 moves rule is not recognised.
If you play very fast, it crashes.
The screen flashes all the time on Safari.
The login-credentials are not retained.
And, there is an anoying sound...

Best regards,


 
Date: 22 Aug 2007 10:01:24
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
> I'm just hoping he's not making up lists himself to 'prove' he's better than
> the rest.

Surely I do not know about those games. There are lots and lots of
Chess games arround.

So I would say, It was First Time GetClub Chess beat any other Chess
Program. Earlier It was unable to beat even me. Now it is beating even
other Chess Programs. May be later It challenges the Toppers.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html



  
Date: 22 Aug 2007 21:30:09
From: Ruud
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!

"Sanny" <[email protected] > schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
>> I'm just hoping he's not making up lists himself to 'prove' he's better
>> than
>> the rest.
>
> Surely I do not know about those games. There are lots and lots of
> Chess games arround.
>
> So I would say, It was First Time GetClub Chess beat any other Chess
> Program. Earlier It was unable to beat even me. Now it is beating even
> other Chess Programs. May be later It challenges the Toppers.

As you yourself hopefully understand: it's not saying a lot if your program
beats another program (or beats you for that matter).
Telling apart selfproclaimed top-programmers from actual ones is what
matters, and you seem to have failed there by not producing an worthy
opponent in your 'strongest game' statement.




 
Date: 22 Aug 2007 06:41:43
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 22, 4:19 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Yesterday GetClub Chess came Online after a few improvements.
>
> I tried to test it against Ludoplayer which says itself as Worlds
> Strongest Game.

Hmm... not IM Innes? And not Bobby Fischer? But
Ludoplayer, eh? We'll see. BTW, has anybody ever
heard of Ludoplayer before? I haven't. (Don't tell Sanny,
but the world's strongest chess program is actually
Rybka.)



> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> White: GetClub.com (Beginner Level)
> Black: Ludo Chess
> Recorded Game at:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM7573&game=Chess
>
> 1. d4 Nf6

Hey, these guys are good.


> 2. c4 g6

Really good... .


> 3. Nc3 c5

A funky Benoni. Now after d5 Bg7, e4 Bxc3+(!??), it's
GetClub vs. GM Dzindzhichashvili!


> 4. Bg5 Qb6

Uh oh. Something went wrong with the programs'
parameters; now they are playing like idiots. : >(


> 5. Nf3 Qb2
> 6. Nb5 Bh6
> 7.Bh6 e5

I suspect that maybe an impostor clubbed Dzindzi
over the head and took up his game, while maybe
Sanny took over for GetClub's program. Or maybe
the CIA drugged him/them/it.



> Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM7573&game=Chess
>
> (White Wins.)


> And this is how GetClub.com beats worlds Strongest Game. So have fun.
> Higher Levels will play even stronger than it.

Wow, even stronger than this? Amazing. Incredible.
Now, everyone will want to play at GetClub.com (well,
everyone except GM Dzindzichashvili and Ludochess).


-- help bot







  
Date: 22 Aug 2007 16:33:54
From: Ruud
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!

"help bot" <[email protected] > schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> On Aug 22, 4:19 am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Yesterday GetClub Chess came Online after a few improvements.
>>
>> I tried to test it against Ludoplayer which says itself as Worlds
>> Strongest Game.
>
> Hmm... not IM Innes? And not Bobby Fischer? But
> Ludoplayer, eh? We'll see. BTW, has anybody ever
> heard of Ludoplayer before? I haven't. (Don't tell Sanny,
> but the world's strongest chess program is actually
> Rybka.)

The complete ignorance with which Sanny stares into the world of
computerchess makes me believe he has never heard of the leading rating
lists,
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_120_ratinglist/ratinglist/rangliste.html
http://ssdf.bosjo.net/
http://computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/rating_list_all.html
and of the engines that are in it.

I'm just hoping he's not making up lists himself to 'prove' he's better than
the rest.




 
Date: 22 Aug 2007 05:19:47
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
> > Again: If you find any weakness in the game let me know I will ask my
> > programmers to update the errors.
>
> > Bye
> > Sanny
>
> > Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> Still can't beat Zed- Hide quoted text -

What do you mean? I beat it Zed as Zed & Ludochess are same They both
use Jester Engine.

My Program was able to beat it once is a great Achievement. As Zed
claims to be the Strongest Chess Engine.

However I understand that the game was won because of good luck and
not play strength. The Zed made a blunder thats the Reasion GetClub
Chess won the Game.

Bye
Sanny.

Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html



 
Date: 22 Aug 2007 04:36:57
From: Rob
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
On Aug 22, 4:50 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > And this is how GetClub.com beats worlds Strongest Game. So have fun.
> > Higher Levels will play even stronger than it.
>
> > Bye
> > Sanny
>
> > Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> So Nomorechess, Taylor Kingston, Bob, Chrisf, Zebediah WHERE ARE YOU.
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> Can you still beat GetClub's Master Level. Or you find it hard to beat
> even the Beginner & Easy Levels?
>
> You need to Signup Again to Play at GetClub Chess as old records were
> removed. And you need to verify your Email So that only real people
> can Join the Chess Game.
>
> Again: If you find any weakness in the game let me know I will ask my
> programmers to update the errors.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Still can't beat Zed



 
Date: 22 Aug 2007 02:50:08
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Chess beat Worlds Strongest Computer Game !!!
> And this is how GetClub.com beats worlds Strongest Game. So have fun.
> Higher Levels will play even stronger than it.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

So Nomorechess, Taylor Kingston, Bob, Chrisf, Zebediah WHERE ARE YOU.

Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Can you still beat GetClub's Master Level. Or you find it hard to beat
even the Beginner & Easy Levels?

You need to Signup Again to Play at GetClub Chess as old records were
removed. And you need to verify your Email So that only real people
can Join the Chess Game.

Again: If you find any weakness in the game let me know I will ask my
programmers to update the errors.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html