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Main
Date: 14 Apr 2007 07:28:08
From: SAT W-7
Subject: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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Fritz I0 vs Shredder I0 vs Hercules I0 ,
Rybka vs all three of them...
Id like to see those 4 in a round robin tourny ..
Time control of lets say 60 min games ...Then id do 90 min time
controls . Then 30 min time controls .....Id do that just to see the
outcome of all those games and get a real test at which program is the
best over all at each time control..
If i had them i would do that ...Id play them in IO games each so
they can be white and black for 5 games each ......
who would be the most dom eng ?
My friends Fritz 9 played Rybka in I7 Blitz games and Fritz went one and
sixteen ..
Rybka clearly was the best at 5 min games.
But then he played it at 25 min game and they drew and a 90 min game and
Fritz won..
But he needs to play those two time controls about I0 more times to see
which is the best..
i would.....
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Date: 21 Apr 2007 11:47:51
From: mate-in-30
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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On Apr 14, 10:28 am, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> Fritz I0 vs Shredder I0 vs Hercules I0 ,
> Rybka vs all three of them...
>
> Id like to see those 4 in a round robin tourny ..
>
> Time control of lets say 60 min games ...Then id do 90 min time
> controls . Then 30 min time controls .....Id do that just to see the
> outcome of all those games and get a real test at which program is the
> best over all at each time control..
>
> If i had them i would do that ...Id play them in IO games each so
> they can be white and black for 5 games each ......
>
> who would be the most dom eng ?
>
> My friends Fritz 9 played Rybka in I7 Blitz games and Fritz went one and
> sixteen ..
> Rybka clearly was the best at 5 min games.
>
> But then he played it at 25 min game and they drew and a 90 min game and
> Fritz won..
> But he needs to play those two time controls about I0 more times to see
> which is the best..
> i would.....
what are you trying to say -- that you are sick of all the "non chess
computer " posts?
actually if you are interested in computer chess and engine vs engine
matches , etc and are interested in joining a site that moderates
the posts - this is a nice place to start http://216.25.93.108/forum/index.php
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Date: 22 Apr 2007 01:30:45
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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Yes i am kind of sick of all the none chess stuff here and other boards
are the same ..Way off topic... Thank you for that site i'll check it
out.
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Date: 14 Apr 2007 12:09:23
From: JohnnyT
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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You must check out this site..
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/replay.htm
This contains many games, some commented some not. Between many many
different engines at many many different time controls.
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Date: 14 Apr 2007 19:00:33
From: Terry
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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"SAT W-7" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Fritz I0 vs Shredder I0 vs Hercules I0 ,
> Rybka vs all three of them...
>
> Id like to see those 4 in a round robin tourny ..
>
> Time control of lets say 60 min games ...Then id do 90 min time
> controls . Then 30 min time controls .....Id do that just to see the
> outcome of all those games and get a real test at which program is the
> best over all at each time control..
>
> If i had them i would do that ...Id play them in IO games each so
> they can be white and black for 5 games each ......
>
> who would be the most dom eng ?
>
> My friends Fritz 9 played Rybka in I7 Blitz games and Fritz went one and
> sixteen ..
> Rybka clearly was the best at 5 min games.
>
> But then he played it at 25 min game and they drew and a 90 min game and
> Fritz won..
> But he needs to play those two time controls about I0 more times to see
> which is the best..
> i would.....
>
Dont play them on the same computer. One of them will hog most of the
resources.
Memory and cpu time. This is a common mistake when comparing engines.
Regards
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Date: 14 Apr 2007 20:27:27
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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Terry wrote:
>Dont play them on the same computer. One of them will hog most of the
>resources. Memory and cpu time. This is a common mistake when comparing
>engines.
The above used to be true, but in a world of multicore processors
and Virtual machines such as VMWare, it no longer applies.
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/ >
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Date: 15 Apr 2007 08:13:01
From: Terry
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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"Guy Macon" <http://www.guymacon.com/ > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> Terry wrote:
>
>>Dont play them on the same computer. One of them will hog most of the
>>resources. Memory and cpu time. This is a common mistake when comparing
>>engines.
>
>
> The above used to be true, but in a world of multicore processors
> and Virtual machines such as VMWare, it no longer applies.
>
>
> Guy Macon
> <http://www.guymacon.com/>
Are these generally available on the ordiy PC's in peoples homes ?
I suspect not
Regards
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Date: 15 Apr 2007 07:44:59
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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Terry wrote:
>
>Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote...
>>
>> Terry wrote:
>>
>>>Dont play them on the same computer. One of them will hog most of the
>>>resources. Memory and cpu time. This is a common mistake when comparing
>>>engines.
>>
>> The above used to be true, but in a world of multicore processors
>> and Virtual machines such as VMWare, it no longer applies.
>>
>> Guy Macon
>> <http://www.guymacon.com/>
>
>Are these generally available on the ordiy PC's in peoples homes ?
>
>I suspect not
VMWare gives the virtualization software away, and a Dell will
sell you a dual core PC for less than $700.
--
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/ >
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Date: 15 Apr 2007 13:31:26
From: Terry
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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"Guy Macon" <http://www.guymacon.com/ > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> Terry wrote:
>>
>>Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote...
>>>
>>> Terry wrote:
>>>
>>>>Dont play them on the same computer. One of them will hog most of the
>>>>resources. Memory and cpu time. This is a common mistake when comparing
>>>>engines.
>>>
>>> The above used to be true, but in a world of multicore processors
>>> and Virtual machines such as VMWare, it no longer applies.
>>>
>>> Guy Macon
>>> <http://www.guymacon.com/>
>>
>>Are these generally available on the ordiy PC's in peoples homes ?
>>
>>I suspect not
>
> VMWare gives the virtualization software away, and a Dell will
> sell you a dual core PC for less than $700.
>
>
That doesnt answer the question :-)
Regards
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Date: 15 Apr 2007 11:54:27
From: JohnnyT
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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Terry wrote:
> That doesnt answer the question :-)
It is probably more likely that a modern user that is doing engine
matches is more likely to have a dual-core machine at home, than two
machines to run auto-232 on.
That does answer the question,
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Date: 15 Apr 2007 17:48:46
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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Terry wrote:
>
>Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote...
>>
>> Terry wrote:
>>>
>>>Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote...
>>>>
>>>> Terry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Dont play them on the same computer. One of them will hog most of the
>>>>>resources. Memory and cpu time. This is a common mistake when comparing
>>>>>engines.
>>>>
>>>> The above used to be true, but in a world of multicore processors
>>>> and Virtual machines such as VMWare, it no longer applies.
>>>
>>>Are these generally available on the ordiy PC's in peoples homes ?
>>>
>>>I suspect not
>>
>> VMWare gives the virtualization software away, and a Dell will
>> sell you a dual core PC for less than $700.
>
>That doesnt answer the question :-)
Yes it does. Cheap PCs equal "generally available in
peoples homes" PCs. If someone doesn't have a dual
core PC it's because their older PC does a good enough
job, not because they can't afford a new dual core.
Just saw the latest Dell ad in my local paper.
$499 for a dual-core PC, including flatscreen monitor.
And of course no-name white box PCs are even cheaper.
I could turn the question around and point it at you;
you advocate running the two chess engines on seperate
computers. Are pairs of identical computers generally
available in peoples homes?
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/ >
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Date: 16 Apr 2007 07:35:37
From: Terry
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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"Guy Macon" <http://www.guymacon.com/ > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> Terry wrote:
>>
>>Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote...
>>>
>>> Terry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote...
>>>>>
>>>>> Terry wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Dont play them on the same computer. One of them will hog most of the
>>>>>>resources. Memory and cpu time. This is a common mistake when
>>>>>>comparing
>>>>>>engines.
>>>>>
>>>>> The above used to be true, but in a world of multicore processors
>>>>> and Virtual machines such as VMWare, it no longer applies.
>>>>
>>>>Are these generally available on the ordiy PC's in peoples homes ?
>>>>
>>>>I suspect not
>>>
>>> VMWare gives the virtualization software away, and a Dell will
>>> sell you a dual core PC for less than $700.
>>
>>That doesnt answer the question :-)
>
> Yes it does. Cheap PCs equal "generally available in
> peoples homes" PCs. If someone doesn't have a dual
> core PC it's because their older PC does a good enough
> job, not because they can't afford a new dual core.
>
> Just saw the latest Dell ad in my local paper.
> $499 for a dual-core PC, including flatscreen monitor.
> And of course no-name white box PCs are even cheaper.
>
> I could turn the question around and point it at you;
> you advocate running the two chess engines on seperate
> computers. Are pairs of identical computers generally
> available in peoples homes?
>
> Guy Macon
> <http://www.guymacon.com/>
>
All this just shows that eng v eng results done at home are unreliable
and my original warning is still valid.
Regards
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Date: 16 Apr 2007 09:04:08
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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Terry wrote:
>All this just shows that eng v eng results done at home are unreliable
Evidence, please.
>and my original warning is still valid.
No it isn't.
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/ >
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Date: 17 Apr 2007 14:21:13
From: Terry
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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"Guy Macon" <http://www.guymacon.com/ > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> Terry wrote:
>
>>All this just shows that eng v eng results done at home are unreliable
>
> Evidence, please.
>
>>and my original warning is still valid.
>
> No it isn't.
>
> Guy Macon
> <http://www.guymacon.com/>
>
My original warning is valid because the majority of people donthave dual
processors
etc.
Unless people post the exact PC configuration the results have to be
considered unreliable.
Regards
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Date: 18 Apr 2007 00:32:47
From: Guy Macon
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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Terry wrote:
>My original warning is valid because the majority of people
>donthave dual processors etc.
You should have warned against running the two chess engines on
different comuters then. Having two PCs that are identical
is much rarer than having a dula core processor.
>Unless people post the exact PC configuration the results have to be
>considered unreliable.
Not if they use the right software:
"..there are two levels that workload management can be applied;
the guest virtual machine and the host server. Individually,
they both offer great benefits. Used together, they offer a
total solution. Controlling the guest makes sure that the
processes within a virtual machine do not adversely affect
each other, and controlling the host server protects the
co-habiting virtual machines from contention."
-- AppSense Management Suite Manual
(Note that AppSense Management Suite is just one way of
balancing contention between VM processes. It can be
done manually, but it's more work to set it up.)
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/ >
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Date: 18 Apr 2007 09:03:30
From: Terry
Subject: Re: I wish people would post more eng vs eng games on here
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"Guy Macon" <http://www.guymacon.com/ > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> Terry wrote:
>
>>My original warning is valid because the majority of people
>>donthave dual processors etc.
>
> You should have warned against running the two chess engines on
> different comuters then. Having two PCs that are identical
> is much rarer than having a dula core processor.
>
>>Unless people post the exact PC configuration the results have to be
>>considered unreliable.
>
> Not if they use the right software:
>
> "..there are two levels that workload management can be applied;
> the guest virtual machine and the host server. Individually,
> they both offer great benefits. Used together, they offer a
> total solution. Controlling the guest makes sure that the
> processes within a virtual machine do not adversely affect
> each other, and controlling the host server protects the
> co-habiting virtual machines from contention."
> -- AppSense Management Suite Manual
>
> (Note that AppSense Management Suite is just one way of
> balancing contention between VM processes. It can be
> done manually, but it's more work to set it up.)
>
> Guy Macon
> <http://www.guymacon.com/>
>
I really dont wish to have the last word on this, as your contributions
to these chess newsgroups are very useful, but you are just confirming
my original point.
Dont trust eng v eng results unless you know the hardware and configuration
used.
This is very obvious.
Regards
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