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Main
Date: 15 Oct 2006 00:14:55
From: Sanny
Subject: Nomorechess is going to be beaten now!!!
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Ha Ha Ha,
There was again a bit of improvement done. Now The GetClub Game now
will give advantage to 2 Bishops than knights. So Nomorechess will face
difficulty winning the games.
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Well if he plays with Beginner & Easy levels then he may survive but
if he plays with Normal Level I am sure he has to loose Matches.
Winning 1-2 games is a different story but winning continiously is very
difficult. That only TK, Nomorechess and Bob can do.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 19 Oct 2006 00:19:05
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Nomorechess cannot be beaten at GetClub.com
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Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
> > On the other hand, I observe that in most cases, my
> > current position looks as though it might well have come up
> > in a game between two random human players, and this is a
> > good sign. One poster recently complained that the program
> > failed to play with a plan -- which is absurd. Programs ought
> > not to have such plans, as they need to emphasise a key
> > advantage they have over humans: the ability to take a fresh
> > look at the position after each and every move. This ensures
> > that any tactical slips by the human opponent can be caught
> > and punished, and it also helps to compensate for the
> > horizon effect which plagues chess computers. Far from
> > taking a "planning" approach (if that can even be done), a
> > chess computer need only "float like a butterfly, sting like a
> > bee".
> >
> The game program engine first needs to understand "check", and what moves
> are illegal when the King is in check. After one of my previous games was
> analyzed to have an illegal move, and then the King was captured, I tried
> this quick test game (computer is playing black):
>
> 1. f3 e5
> 2. Kf2 Nc6
> 3. Ke3 Bc5
>
> 4. f4
> (illegal move since the White King is in check, but the program allowed it)
>
> ... Bxe3 (Bishop takes King and the board resets because it counts as a
> win)
>
> I'm not sure if this issue exists in player vs. player, but it's
> reproducible when a player plays the computer at the beginner level.
> Clearly, the King is being treated as just another piece, and by extension,
> the program treats capturing the King as winning the game.
On top of this problem, the last move of every game is
simply cut off so one can only guess at the actual finish
when replaying saved games.
If the programmers figured out how to keep pieces from
jumping off the board (i.e.: K-e9), why can't they figure
out how to weed out illegal moves like capturing the King?
Another issue which ramains to be acknowleged, let alone
addressed, is the scoring of draws. I hesitate to complain
about this because it reveals my embarassing failure to
win EVERY game, but still. : >D
BTW, in my game in the same opening line, the computer
was thoroughly outplayed. I believe where you lost your
advantage was on move 3, when you attacked a bit
prematurely. (OTOH, against me the computer played the
silly ...Q-h4+.)
-- help bot
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 21:30:28
From: help bot
Subject: Nomorechess cannot be beaten at GetClub.com
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Sanny wrote:
> > building the connection is worse, no real progress is
> > made. I still do not understand why the program *loses
> > ground*, even if the internet connection is less than
> > perfect. Does this happen with all Java applets?
>
> Just have a broadband connection, And that is sufficient. I do not
> think connection is a big issue. Your Computer need to be fast and you
> should not work on 2 programs at a time.
Easier said than done. Where I live, there is (as far as
I know) only one available phone company, and this
recommendation of yours to have broadband has already
been tried, to no avail. It may not be too long before I can
get a WiMax connection, but until then I am stuck with
wireless internet access.
The problem I have noted several times now, of the program
losing ground and re-analysing a given ply which was already
completed earlier, appears to be the cause of many of your
complaints here regarding speed of play. It's not just me.
On the other hand, I observe that in most cases, my
current position looks as though it might well have come up
in a game between two random human players, and this is a
good sign. One poster recently complained that the program
failed to play with a plan -- which is absurd. Programs ought
not to have such plans, as they need to emphasise a key
advantage they have over humans: the ability to take a fresh
look at the position after each and every move. This ensures
that any tactical slips by the human opponent can be caught
and punished, and it also helps to compensate for the
horizon effect which plagues chess computers. Far from
taking a "planning" approach (if that can even be done), a
chess computer need only "float like a butterfly, sting like a
bee".
-- help bot
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 23:22:36
From: Daniel W. Rouse Jr.
Subject: Re: Nomorechess cannot be beaten at GetClub.com
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"help bot" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Sanny wrote:
>
> > > building the connection is worse, no real progress is
> > > made. I still do not understand why the program *loses
> > > ground*, even if the internet connection is less than
> > > perfect. Does this happen with all Java applets?
> >
> > Just have a broadband connection, And that is sufficient. I do not
> > think connection is a big issue. Your Computer need to be fast and you
> > should not work on 2 programs at a time.
>
>
> Easier said than done. Where I live, there is (as far as
> I know) only one available phone company, and this
> recommendation of yours to have broadband has already
> been tried, to no avail. It may not be too long before I can
> get a WiMax connection, but until then I am stuck with
> wireless internet access.
>
> The problem I have noted several times now, of the program
> losing ground and re-analysing a given ply which was already
> completed earlier, appears to be the cause of many of your
> complaints here regarding speed of play. It's not just me.
>
> On the other hand, I observe that in most cases, my
> current position looks as though it might well have come up
> in a game between two random human players, and this is a
> good sign. One poster recently complained that the program
> failed to play with a plan -- which is absurd. Programs ought
> not to have such plans, as they need to emphasise a key
> advantage they have over humans: the ability to take a fresh
> look at the position after each and every move. This ensures
> that any tactical slips by the human opponent can be caught
> and punished, and it also helps to compensate for the
> horizon effect which plagues chess computers. Far from
> taking a "planning" approach (if that can even be done), a
> chess computer need only "float like a butterfly, sting like a
> bee".
>
The game program engine first needs to understand "check", and what moves
are illegal when the King is in check. After one of my previous games was
analyzed to have an illegal move, and then the King was captured, I tried
this quick test game (computer is playing black):
1. f3 e5
2. Kf2 Nc6
3. Ke3 Bc5
4. f4
(illegal move since the White King is in check, but the program allowed it)
... Bxe3 (Bishop takes King and the board resets because it counts as a
win)
I'm not sure if this issue exists in player vs. player, but it's
reproducible when a player plays the computer at the beginner level.
Clearly, the King is being treated as just another piece, and by extension,
the program treats capturing the King as winning the game.
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 01:04:19
From: Sanny
Subject: Internet Connection not so important.
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> building the connection is worse, no real progress is
> made. I still do not understand why the program *loses
> ground*, even if the internet connection is less than
> perfect. Does this happen with all Java applets?
Just have a broadband connection, And that is sufficient. I do not
think connection is a big issue. Your Computer need to be fast and you
should not work on 2 programs at a time.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 16:35:19
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: Internet Connection not so important.
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Sanny wrote:
>>building the connection is worse, no real progress is
>>made. I still do not understand why the program *loses
>>ground*, even if the internet connection is less than
>>perfect. Does this happen with all Java applets?
>
>
> Just have a broadband connection, And that is sufficient. I do not
> think connection is a big issue. Your Computer need to be fast and you
> should not work on 2 programs at a time.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
Is not that the point of multi-tasking operating systems - you can have
multiple programs running at the same time? At this moment I have a
browser, chess database, chess engine, word processor all running on the
same machine.
BTW Sanny, it would be better if you communicated information to
specific users in email, rather than a newsgroup? Rubbish such as:
"I feel you played with Beginner Level and you were Check Mated in by
Mate in 2 or 3."
"Since your game was not recorded it means you played with Beginner
Level without login."
could all go in private email, not a newsgroup.
I must say, considering what you have is a poor program, you seem to
have a knack of generating a lot of posts.
---
Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.
http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)
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Date: 18 Oct 2006 01:47:36
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Internet Connection not so important.
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In article <[email protected] >,
"Dave (from the UK)"
<[email protected] > wrote:
> Is not that the point of multi-tasking operating systems - you can have
> multiple programs running at the same time? At this moment I have a
> browser, chess database, chess engine, word processor all running on the
> same machine.
Exactly.
Even more to the point, if the program is going to spend half an hour
per move (and yet I only need a few seconds to come up with my reply)
you can't possibly expect me to not do anything else on my computer in
that time.
Another suggestion: Sanny, when the computer resigns, you should have a
screen which makes it clear that's what happened. It was weird to come
back to my computer and have the first screen up again with no result.
Since I had a forced mate, I wasn't surprised ... but even still, that's
clunky programming.
-Ron
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 17:40:41
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Internet Connection not so important.
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Dave (from the UK) <[email protected] > wrote:
> Sanny wrote:
>> Your Computer need to be fast and you should not work on 2 programs
>> at a time.
>
> Is not that the point of multi-tasking operating systems - you can
> have multiple programs running at the same time?
Of course; however, if any of those other programs is using a lot of
CPU, you shouldn't expect the chess applet to run quickly.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Revolting Broken Car (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a high-performance luxury car
but it doesn't work and it'll turn
your stomach!
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Date: 17 Oct 2006 18:56:40
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: Internet Connection not so important.
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David Richerby wrote:
> Dave (from the UK) <[email protected]> wrote:
> Of course; however, if any of those other programs is using a lot of
> CPU, you shouldn't expect the chess applet to run quickly.
>
>
> Dave.
There was no mention of two CPU intensive applications, but simply "2
programs at a time."
Most modern PCs spend a lot of their time pretty much idle anyway. Chess
programs are quite untypical in the amount of CPU time they use. So
there should be no technical reason why one should not do some word
processing or browse the web whilst his chess program is running.
I think if Sanny's "team of programmers" were as good at programming as
Sanny is in generating newsgroup posts, the chess world would be a
better place.
--
Dave (from the UK)
Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.
http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)
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Date: 16 Oct 2006 21:51:23
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Nomorechess is going to be beaten now!!!
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Sanny wrote:
> Ha Ha Ha,
>
> There was again a bit of improvement done. Now The GetClub Game now
> will give advantage to 2 Bishops than knights. So Nomorechess will face
> difficulty winning the games.
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
> Well if he plays with Beginner & Easy levels then he may survive but
> if he plays with Normal Level I am sure he has to loose Matches.
>
> Winning 1-2 games is a different story but winning continiously is very
> difficult. That only TK, Nomorechess and Bob can do.
I believe it was on Saturday that I went in and ate lunch
at McDonalds, with my notebook computer and their
wireless service. Because I was inside the building, the
connection is faster/better, and I was able to play half a
game against the Normal level. But now I may well be
stuck until next week, since on that level it takes a long
time for the program to make its move, and outside the
building the connection is worse, no real progress is
made. I still do not understand why the program *loses
ground*, even if the internet connection is less than
perfect. Does this happen with all Java applets?
-- help bot
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Date: 15 Oct 2006 20:16:48
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: Nomorechess is going to be beaten now!!!
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Sanny wrote:
> Ha Ha Ha,
>
> There was again a bit of improvement done.
Ha Ha Ha !!!
> Now The GetClub Game now will give
> advantage to 2 Bishops than knights.
> So Nomorechess will face
> difficulty winning the games.
Ha Ha Ha !!!
Wlod
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