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Date: 03 Jun 2006 18:36:19
From: henri
Subject: Personal chess trainer mistakes
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I really like Personal chess trainer, and I agree with the philosophy
that repetition is thye key to visualizing tactical positions. I use
it all the time, and I even use it more than CT Art 3.0, which is also
excellent.
However one thing that drives me up the wall is that the program only
accepts ONE solution, even when there are mujltiple solutions. Just a
minute ago, I hit the jackpot: before it happened quite frequently
with mates more than one move deep that my solution was refused.
But here, in unit 22 of TAC-01, item 144, I am asked to find the best
move. I see a mate in 2, but it is refused in favor of a queen
sacrifice that yields a mate in 3! But that is not all, there is
another mate in 3, and also a mate in 4! Why should a mae in 2 be less
good than a mate in 3? Four solutions and only one is accepted?
This is not going to stop me from training with the program, but I
will feel less guilty when I am told I don<t have the right move...
Henri
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Date: 17 Jun 2006 02:00:27
From:
Subject: Re: Personal chess trainer mistakes
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> 1.Kb6 is a poor choice as it doesn't achieve anything. 1.Kb6?! Kb8
> (only move) and now either 2.Ka6 Kc8 or 2.Kc6 Ka8: both, in effect,
> repeating the position. After 2.Ka6, the position is mirrored so
> this isn't a true repetition but the point is that White still has
> exactly the same problem to solve as he did at move 1.
True, Kb6 doesn't accomplish anything. Thanks for the explanation and
the lines, I'll focus more study on K vs K+P and K+R vs K+R+P. I see
them fairly often in my games.
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Date: 17 Jun 2006 01:52:24
From:
Subject: Re: Personal chess trainer mistakes
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Argh, and here PCT calls b4 a losing move. My chess computer shows b4
and Kb6 both Queen in eight moves, and it even prefers b4!
1k6/8/2K5/8/8/8/1P6/8 w - - 0 1
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Date: 17 Jun 2006 01:37:21
From:
Subject: Re: Personal chess trainer mistakes
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I've only used the demo. I decided to try it again today, and my first
position was this:
FEN: 8/8/8/3p4/8/8/2kPK3/8 w - - 0 1
PCT said, "White to play and draw." I played Ke3, which wins the Black
pawn in 2-3 moves, thus ensuring a draw. PCT said I was wrong?! It
wanted me to play an 8-move draw where I let Black's king take my pawn
then win with the opposition. Sigh...
Back to CT-ART. ;-)
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 23:11:20
From: Philippe GAILLARD
Subject: Re: Personal chess trainer mistakes
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I have the problem. sometimes it is a figure of mat that is schown and
there is way to escape the Mat.
When i have doubt, I transfer the position to Fritz Or Arena with Ctrl C
which, as i know, is impossible with CT art 3 (You play the position but
make an engine analysing the line with CT art . Have you a solution?)
i think that the positions are extracted from real games as they were
played, sometimes fritz or arena would find other wya
i have great fun with Personal Trainer my Elo is about 1500 and i have
worked the first 30 modules of tactics One
PG
"henri" <[email protected] > a �crit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
>I really like Personal chess trainer, and I agree with the philosophy
> that repetition is thye key to visualizing tactical positions. I use
> it all the time, and I even use it more than CT Art 3.0, which is also
> excellent.
>
> However one thing that drives me up the wall is that the program only
> accepts ONE solution, even when there are mujltiple solutions. Just a
> minute ago, I hit the jackpot: before it happened quite frequently
> with mates more than one move deep that my solution was refused.
>
> But here, in unit 22 of TAC-01, item 144, I am asked to find the best
> move. I see a mate in 2, but it is refused in favor of a queen
> sacrifice that yields a mate in 3! But that is not all, there is
> another mate in 3, and also a mate in 4! Why should a mae in 2 be less
> good than a mate in 3? Four solutions and only one is accepted?
>
> This is not going to stop me from training with the program, but I
> will feel less guilty when I am told I don<t have the right move...
>
> Henri
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Date: 08 Jun 2006 07:29:42
From: Henri Arsenault
Subject: Re: Personal chess trainer mistakes
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In article <[email protected] >,
"Philippe GAILLARD" <[email protected] > wrote:
> I have the problem. sometimes it is a figure of mat that is schown and
> there is way to escape the Mat.
> When i have doubt, I transfer the position to Fritz Or Arena with Ctrl C
> which, as i know, is impossible with CT art 3 (You play the position but
> make an engine analysing the line with CT art . Have you a solution?)
CT Art 3.0 includes the Crafty engine, so you can analyze the position
with that. I find that very useful when I thought I saw another solution
or a possible defence and I want to test it. Of course it won't do the
analysis all by itself like Fritz, and I know of no way to transfer the
position to Fritz.
I didn't realize that in Personal Chess Trainer one could copy the
position with cntr-C and paste it into Fritz - I used to set up the
position under question in Fritz by hand, which obviously I did not do
very often.
Henri
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Date: 11 Jun 2006 21:36:49
From: Philippe GAILLARD
Subject: Re: Personal chess trainer mistakes
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yes with crafty, you can play against the Engine but crafty doesn' t show
the lines as Firitz or the free interface Arena with many engines
philippe
"Henri Arsenault" <[email protected] > a �crit dans le message de
news: [email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Philippe GAILLARD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I have the problem. sometimes it is a figure of mat that is schown
>> and
>> there is way to escape the Mat.
>> When i have doubt, I transfer the position to Fritz Or Arena with
>> Ctrl C
>> which, as i know, is impossible with CT art 3 (You play the position but
>> make an engine analysing the line with CT art . Have you a solution?)
>
> CT Art 3.0 includes the Crafty engine, so you can analyze the position
> with that. I find that very useful when I thought I saw another solution
> or a possible defence and I want to test it. Of course it won't do the
> analysis all by itself like Fritz, and I know of no way to transfer the
> position to Fritz.
>
> I didn't realize that in Personal Chess Trainer one could copy the
> position with cntr-C and paste it into Fritz - I used to set up the
> position under question in Fritz by hand, which obviously I did not do
> very often.
>
> Henri
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Date: 15 Jun 2006 09:46:22
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Personal chess trainer mistakes
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Philippe GAILLARD <[email protected] > wrote:
> yes with crafty, you can play against the Engine but crafty doesn' t
> show the lines as Firitz or the free interface Arena with many
> engines
Different engines do different things... Crafty isn't the strongest,
these days.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Technicolor Incredible Tool (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a handy household tool
but it'll blow your mind and it's in
realistic colour!
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 16:29:26
From:
Subject: Re: Personal chess trainer mistakes
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In their K vs K+P endgames they're also picky:
k7/8/2K5/1P6/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 4
http://tinyurl.com/fszej
What should white move?
I played Kb6, which Queens in six moves. They chose b6, which Queens in
four moves. I suppose knowing the fastest answer may help if you're in
time trouble. CT-ART gives you credit for anything that wins. Both
approaches have some merit. Send in your bug... they'll probably
address it.
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 11:23:48
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Personal chess trainer mistakes
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<[email protected] > wrote:
> In their K vs K+P endgames they're also picky:
>
> k7/8/2K5/1P6/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 4
> http://tinyurl.com/fszej
>
> What should white move?
>
> I played Kb6, which Queens in six moves. They chose b6, which Queens
> in four moves.
1.Kb6 is a poor choice as it doesn't achieve anything. 1.Kb6?! Kb8
(only move) and now either 2.Ka6 Kc8 or 2.Kc6 Ka8: both, in effect,
repeating the position. After 2.Ka6, the position is mirrored so
this isn't a true repetition but the point is that White still has
exactly the same problem to solve as he did at move 1.
> I suppose knowing the fastest answer may help if you're in time
> trouble.
I think it's more that 1.Kb6 does't really show any understanding of
the position, if I can say that without sounding rude. The point at
this stage of a KP+P ending is to cover the promotion square with your
king, which suggests 1.Kc7. In this case, we have to check that Black
isn't going to get stalemated but all is well. 1.Kc7 Ka7 2.b6+ Ka8
3.b7+ Ka7 4.b8Q+. The alternative is 1.b6 Kb8 2.b7 Ka7 3.Kc7 Ka6
4.b8Q which has the advantage that Black's moves are completely forced
so it's easy to analyze. (It turns out that 1.b6 mates faster than
1.Kc7.)
Another point in favour of 1.Kc7 is that, if we move everything back a
rank, i.e., to
8/k7/8/2K5/1P6/8/8/8 w (WKc5, Pb4, BKa7)
then the equivalent move, 1.Kc6! is the only way to win. Moving the
king infront of the pawn allows Black to take the opposition and draw.
I very much recommend studying KP+K such that you can quickly
recognize the won positions and winning strategies and also know how
to hold the draws. It's saved my bacon more than once and it makes
other pawn endings much easier.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Dangerous Salted Postman (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a man who delivers the mail but
it's covered in salt and it could
explode at any minute!
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 01:02:31
From: Henri H. Arsenault
Subject: Re: Personal chess trainer mistakes
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On 6 Jun 2006 16:29:26 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>In their K vs K+P endgames they're also picky:
>
>k7/8/2K5/1P6/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 4
>http://tinyurl.com/fszej
>
>What should white move?
>
>I played Kb6, which Queens in six moves. They chose b6, which Queens in
>four moves. I suppose knowing the fastest answer may help if you're in
>time trouble. CT-ART gives you credit for anything that wins. Both
>approaches have some merit. Send in your bug... they'll probably
>address it.
>
There are too many mistakes to note. It should not be up to users to
debug programs.
Henri
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Date: 07 Jun 2006 22:18:12
From: cbseries
Subject: Re: Personal chess trainer mistakes
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Henri H. Arsenault Wrote:
>
> There are too many mistakes to note. It should not be up to users to
> debug programs.
>
> Henri
What you write is true
--
cbseries
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Date: 06 Jun 2006 08:08:27
From: cbseries
Subject: Re: Personal chess trainer mistakes
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henri Wrote:
> I really like Personal chess trainer, and I agree with the philosophy
> that repetition is thye key to visualizing tactical positions. I use
> it all the time, and I even use it more than CT Art 3.0, which is also
> excellent.
>
> However one thing that drives me up the wall is that the program only
> accepts ONE solution, even when there are mujltiple solutions. Just a
> minute ago, I hit the jackpot: before it happened quite frequently
> with mates more than one move deep that my solution was refused.
>
> But here, in unit 22 of TAC-01, item 144, I am asked to find the best
> move. I see a mate in 2, but it is refused in favor of a queen
> sacrifice that yields a mate in 3! But that is not all, there is
> another mate in 3, and also a mate in 4! Why should a mae in 2 be less
> good than a mate in 3? Four solutions and only one is accepted?
>
> This is not going to stop me from training with the program, but I
> will feel less guilty when I am told I dont have the right move...
>
> Henri
Henri,
If you haven't already done so you might consider e-mailing the peopl
at Personal Chess Trainer to at least see what they have to say abou
your find.
If you do e-mail them and they do respond to your e-mail kindl
consider telling us what they said
--
cbseries
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