| |
Main
Date: 13 Nov 2004 10:34:49
From: Tinklemagoo
Subject: beat (c) 1600 but human 1600 almost impossible
|
I can usually beat CM9000 personalites fairly easily up to around 1700 in
5min or more games.
But when online I can barely beat humans over say 1300 in 5 min games. Is
online cheating rife or are (c) personalites so dumbed down they just dont
play realistically.
| Free Avlerchess Glass Chess Set - Find out how you can get a free glass chess set from us.
|
| |
Date: 13 Nov 2004 21:59:53
From: CeeBee
Subject: Re: beat (c) 1600 but human 1600 almost impossible
|
"Tinklemagoo" <[email protected] > wrote in
rec.games.chess.computer:
> I can usually beat CM9000 personalites fairly easily up to around 1700
> in 5min or more games.
>
> But when online I can barely beat humans over say 1300 in 5 min games.
> Is online cheating rife or are (c) personalites so dumbed down they
> just dont play realistically.
A rating is a relative value, not an absolute value. CM creators claim
they tested those ratings against USCF players, ratings coming out
realistically. It doesn't mean that their rating is the same rating in
the group of people you play online.
Even with rampant cheating online I can't imagine than most 1300 players
are cheaters. Most cheaters just want to inflate their ratings, not play
a game of chess.
--
CeeBee
"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
|
| | |
Date: 14 Nov 2004 11:23:44
From: RPM1
Subject: Re: beat (c) 1600 but human 1600 almost impossible
|
"CeeBee" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Tinklemagoo" <[email protected]> wrote in
> rec.games.chess.computer:
>
> > I can usually beat CM9000 personalites fairly easily up to around 1700
> > in 5min or more games.
> >
> > But when online I can barely beat humans over say 1300 in 5 min games.
> > Is online cheating rife or are (c) personalites so dumbed down they
> > just dont play realistically.
>
>
>
> A rating is a relative value, not an absolute value. CM creators claim
> they tested those ratings against USCF players, ratings coming out
> realistically. It doesn't mean that their rating is the same rating in
> the group of people you play online.
Very true. For example playing a 1300 online at FICS is very different
than playing a 1300 on ICC. I was rated around 1500 for blitz on ICC
and I struggle to stay above 1300 on FICS. I also believe different sites
and
different organizations use slightly different formulas.
Patrick
|
| | | |
Date: 16 Nov 2004 14:54:13
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: beat (c) 1600 but human 1600 almost impossible
|
RPM1 <[email protected] > wrote:
> Very true. For example playing a 1300 online at FICS is very different
> than playing a 1300 on ICC. I was rated around 1500 for blitz on ICC
> and I struggle to stay above 1300 on FICS. I also believe different
> sites and different organizations use slightly different formulas.
Even on two sites that use the same formula, there's no reason to expect
your rating to be the same. Ratings only measure your performance
relative to other people in the same pool of players and don't give
accurate comparisons between distinct pools of players.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Transparent Umbrella (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ an umbrella but you can see right
through it!
|
| | |
Date: 16 Nov 2004 14:52:06
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: beat (c) 1600 but human 1600 almost impossible
|
CeeBee <[email protected] > wrote:
>"Tinklemagoo" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I can usually beat CM9000 personalites fairly easily up to around 1700
>> in 5min or more games.
>>
>> But when online I can barely beat humans over say 1300 in 5 min games.
>> Is online cheating rife or are (c) personalites so dumbed down they
>> just dont play realistically.
>
> [...] Even with rampant cheating online I can't imagine than most 1300
> players are cheaters.
After all, if they were using decent computers to make their moves, their
ratings would be much higher than 1300...
Dave.
--
David Richerby Impossible Sumerian Sushi (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a raw fish that's really old but
it can't exist!
|
| |
Date: 14 Nov 2004 11:45:55
From: John Merlino
Subject: Re: beat (c) 1600 but human 1600 almost impossible
|
"Tinklemagoo" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I can usually beat CM9000 personalites fairly easily up to around 1700 in
> 5min or more games.
>
> But when online I can barely beat humans over say 1300 in 5 min games. Is
> online cheating rife or are (c) personalites so dumbed down they just dont
> play realistically.
It depends which CM personalities you are playing against. Some of
them are "more accurate" than others. Also, some of their settings
allow them to be more easily beaten by humans, but more difficult for
other personalities in the same rating range. Look at the personality
settings of your opponents -- if they are a bit out of whack (odd
material settings, drastic values in other settings), then they may be
easier to beat than settings that just had their "Strength of Play"
value lowered (and all other values generally left at the default).
All of the ratings are "accurate", because the math is the same for
all personalities. But the accuracy only truly pertains to the
Chessmaster software itself. Leave the world of the software, and the
numbers may no longer apply. So, a 1600 Chessmaster personality is
stronger than a 1500 personality, but MAYBE not stronger than a 1600
human.
jm
|
| |
Date: 14 Nov 2004 21:32:00
From: Angelo DePalma
Subject: Re: beat (c) 1600 but human 1600 almost impossible
|
I'm not a computer whiz, but in my opinion the ratings and handicap modes on
most programs are for the birds. Shredder, for example, will play 8 moves
like a GM and then blunder. 8 more GM moves and then another blunder. Not
very lifelike.
"Tinklemagoo" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I can usually beat CM9000 personalites fairly easily up to around 1700 in
> 5min or more games.
>
> But when online I can barely beat humans over say 1300 in 5 min games. Is
> online cheating rife or are (c) personalites so dumbed down they just dont
> play realistically.
>
>
|
| |
Date: 15 Nov 2004 12:53:23
From: -nospam-
Subject: Re: beat (c) 1600 but human 1600 almost impossible
|
Dear correspondent,
Elo is calculated within a group of peers. Within this group of peers,
the elo rating may be a good representation of the strength. There are
a number of other factors however that influence this.
1) The human factor: a human will play more or less good depending on
its mood. The variation can be according to my experience +150 : -300
points. This explains why one can sometimes loose against >300 elo
difference.
2) The time factor: computers calculate technical variations very fast.
In fast games, they have a competitive advantage against humans
because tactics are more important than positional play. Humans know
how to avoid tactical blunders when they get more time for each move and
then the positional play starts to be more important.
3) Chess computers want to publish the highest possible rating. This is
also the case for CM. The other personalities are most probably
relative to the highest possible rating. In order to have a high
rating, they chess computers often take the USCF rating, which is
somewhat inflated. As a rule of thumb, deduct about 150 points to get a
FIDE rating.
Conclusion, rating is not important. The most important factor is
whether or not you like your games you played.
Tinklemagoo wrote:
> I can usually beat CM9000 personalites fairly easily up to around 1700 in
> 5min or more games.
|
| |
Date: 16 Nov 2004 23:12:44
From: Rudy Lopez
Subject: Re: beat (c) 1600 but human 1600 almost impossible
|
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 10:34:49 GMT, "Tinklemagoo"
<[email protected] > wrote:
>I can usually beat CM9000 personalites fairly easily up to around 1700 in
>5min or more games.
>
>But when online I can barely beat humans over say 1300 in 5 min games. Is
>online cheating rife or are (c) personalites so dumbed down they just dont
>play realistically.
>
I've encountered some of the same when playing against CM10th Edition.
Most of the opponents below 1800 throw away material at some point in
the game. *If* you are lucky to hold onto the advantage you can then
beat the machine. The problem is that CM10th Ed often starts playing a
whole lot stronger after it throws away a piece in an unbelievable
blunder.
I think that playing against the dumbed down CM opponents was teaching
me to play bad chess. Playing against full strength CM opponents was
teaching me how to lose badly at chess.
A month or so ago I joined the internet chess club. I have found that
playing against humans is much more fun than playing against a
computer. I think that my game has been improving faster because of it
also.
|
| | |
Date: 03 Dec 2004 00:36:29
From: Karp
Subject: Re: beat (c) 1600 but human 1600 almost impossible
|
I have used CM 10th for some days and I find the lesser personalities
are stranger than in 9000. They play weaker and doing even greater
blunders. Even at around 1800 ELO it still does astounding errors.
When it doesn't make blunders, it plays devil, aggresive chess. Very
unreal.
I suppose I will have to install a patch. Currently there is a 1.0.2
patch for UK version.
As I have said in other post, I like weak personalities of the free
Bringer 1.9 and the "fun play" Fritz 8 mode (more than the ELO-dumbed
Fritz personalities). I find those two cases more fun and realistic.
[email protected] (Rudy Lopez) wrote in message news:<[email protected] >...
> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 10:34:49 GMT, "Tinklemagoo"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I can usually beat CM9000 personalites fairly easily up to around 1700 in
> >5min or more games.
> >
> >But when online I can barely beat humans over say 1300 in 5 min games. Is
> >online cheating rife or are (c) personalites so dumbed down they just dont
> >play realistically.
> >
>
> I've encountered some of the same when playing against CM10th Edition.
>
> Most of the opponents below 1800 throw away material at some point in
> the game. *If* you are lucky to hold onto the advantage you can then
> beat the machine. The problem is that CM10th Ed often starts playing a
> whole lot stronger after it throws away a piece in an unbelievable
> blunder.
>
> I think that playing against the dumbed down CM opponents was teaching
> me to play bad chess. Playing against full strength CM opponents was
> teaching me how to lose badly at chess.
>
> A month or so ago I joined the internet chess club. I have found that
> playing against humans is much more fun than playing against a
> computer. I think that my game has been improving faster because of it
> also.
|
| | | |
Date: 03 Dec 2004 06:51:15
From: Amos Soma
Subject: Re: beat (c) 1600 but human 1600 almost impossible
|
I gave up playing the personalities on CM 9000. A couple weeks ago I was
playing a 1550 rated personality and we were about 6 moves into the game.
It's king and king side rook were still in their original positions and able
to castle. Instead of castling, it moved its king to F1. I quit and vowed
never to play it again. I've found it's much better to play similar rated
players online.
"Karp" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have used CM 10th for some days and I find the lesser personalities
> are stranger than in 9000. They play weaker and doing even greater
> blunders. Even at around 1800 ELO it still does astounding errors.
> When it doesn't make blunders, it plays devil, aggresive chess. Very
> unreal.
>
> I suppose I will have to install a patch. Currently there is a 1.0.2
> patch for UK version.
>
> As I have said in other post, I like weak personalities of the free
> Bringer 1.9 and the "fun play" Fritz 8 mode (more than the ELO-dumbed
> Fritz personalities). I find those two cases more fun and realistic.
>
> [email protected] (Rudy Lopez) wrote in message
news:<[email protected] >...
> > On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 10:34:49 GMT, "Tinklemagoo"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >I can usually beat CM9000 personalites fairly easily up to around 1700
in
> > >5min or more games.
> > >
> > >But when online I can barely beat humans over say 1300 in 5 min games.
Is
> > >online cheating rife or are (c) personalites so dumbed down they just
dont
> > >play realistically.
> > >
> >
> > I've encountered some of the same when playing against CM10th Edition.
> >
> > Most of the opponents below 1800 throw away material at some point in
> > the game. *If* you are lucky to hold onto the advantage you can then
> > beat the machine. The problem is that CM10th Ed often starts playing a
> > whole lot stronger after it throws away a piece in an unbelievable
> > blunder.
> >
> > I think that playing against the dumbed down CM opponents was teaching
> > me to play bad chess. Playing against full strength CM opponents was
> > teaching me how to lose badly at chess.
> >
> > A month or so ago I joined the internet chess club. I have found that
> > playing against humans is much more fun than playing against a
> > computer. I think that my game has been improving faster because of it
> > also.
|
|
