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Main
Date: 25 Jul 2008 19:38:46
From: samsloan
Subject: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
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Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
There is an amazing new development over on the Polgar censored
discussion group. Suddenly, Susan Polgar is saying that she wants to
be sent to Beijing China to represent the US in the World Mind Games
Championship.
http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1362
The reason this is astounding is that Polgar is not on the top-50
rated players lists because she has not played a rated game of chess
in two years and that was in a blitz tournament. The last time she
played in a regular rated game was 2005 and that was the US Amateur
Team East where she lost to a 1700 player named Roberto Jose. The last
time she played in a FIDE Rated event was in 2004.
http://www.uschess.org/msa/MbrDtlTnmtHst.php?12452240
After that event in 2004, she said that she would never represent the
US again. Here are the exact words of her husband and representative:
Apr 15, 2006
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fide-chess/message/25524
Congratulations! You won! As I told you before, Susan will not play in
any future Olympiad, even after 2010. This is directly because of
Beatriz and the KCF.
Now, however, Susan realizes that the members of the US Team will get
a free all expenses paid trip to Beijing China. She wants to go.
However, since the team has already been selected, she wants to have
one of the team members kicked off and replaced by her. She wants one
of our active and promising young players to be kicked of the team
just so she can get a free trip to China.
This exact thing has happened with Susan Polgar before. Indeed, almost
every one of her gripes and disputes with the USCF has been a mirror
image of a similar dispute with the Hungarian Chess Federation before
she got here.
In 1984 the same thing happened. Hungary wanted her to play on the
women's team in the World Chess Olympiad. The Polgar Family set
conditions. Finally, after a long and acrimonious dispute, Susan
refused to play.
In 1986, with the Hungarian Chess Federation relations with the Polgar
Family being even worse, the Hungarian Chess Federation just selected
a team without her and sent that team. Susan then complained that she
had not even been asked. She admitted to me that if she had been asked
she would have set the same conditions as she had set in 1984, but
said that they were required to ask her anyway.
One of the major issues in the 1984 dispute was that Susan wanted to
bring her mother along too. This on the surface seems entirely
reasonable. Susan was only 15 (and still a virgin by the way), so it
seems reasonable that she should be allowed to bring her mother to the
Olympiad.
However, the Hungarian Chess Federation had a good reason not to want
to bring her mother. They knew that if her mother was there, every
little thing would have to be negotiated with the mother. The team
captain could not just tell Susan to play this round or not play or
whatever. The mother's permission would have to be obtained for every
little thing. (Her father was not yet allowed to travel abroad with
her.) The Hungarians had a lot of experience dealing with Susan's
mother and knew that it would not be easy, so they just preferred not
to have Susan on the team at all, to save the disruption the presence
of her mother would bring.
Now, we can see what is probably getting ready to happen. If the USCF
caves in, kicks another player off the team and puts on Susan instead,
the next thing that will happen is Susan will say that she wants to
bring along Paul Truong too!
When will this ever end?
Sam Sloan
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Date: 31 Jul 2008 07:52:22
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
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On Jul 31, 6:35 am, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> They are waiting for an answer at: http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/07/official-question-for-uscf.html
Rob ("The Robber") Mitchell continues to by annoying, as he keeps
changing the subject headers for threads he does not like.
Why don't you start acting like an adult instead of like a two-year-
old?
Sam Sloan
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Date: 31 Jul 2008 05:33:10
From: Rob
Subject: getclub.com improved
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On Jul 29, 7:53=A0am, The Historian <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jul 29, 7:37 am, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > **Raise a prize fund and stop speculating! - but do this, have Susan pl=
ay
> > Irina K, Anna Z and Jenn S in a clock SIMUL. ;))
>
> Have Paul Truong serve as Treasurer of the prize fund. He's got the
> financial skills for it.
>
> BTW, how is that 'research' coming, Innes, =A0on the latest court case
> against the First Couple of Chess?
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Date: 31 Jul 2008 04:35:23
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
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They are waiting for an answer at:
http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/07/official-question-for-uscf.html
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Date: 29 Jul 2008 05:53:55
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
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On Jul 29, 7:37 am, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> **Raise a prize fund and stop speculating! - but do this, have Susan play
> Irina K, Anna Z and Jenn S in a clock SIMUL. ;))
Have Paul Truong serve as Treasurer of the prize fund. He's got the
financial skills for it.
BTW, how is that 'research' coming, Innes, on the latest court case
against the First Couple of Chess?
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Date: 29 Jul 2008 04:04:36
From:
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
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[email protected] wrote:
> samsloan wrote:
> > On Jul 29, 3:30 am, [email protected] wrote:
> > > samsloan wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Eric Schiller wrote:
> > >
> > > > You keep referring to s "suspicious" tournament without evidence
> > > > from the other participants. Either make an accusation or forget about
> > > > it. Every time you reach for some unproven speculation on the past,
> > > > you undermine the present case against Polgar.
> > >
> > > > Eric
> > >
> > > > Have you calculated Polgar's performance rating in that event? It is
> > > > about 2750 !!
> > >
> > > > Can you cite any other tournament in her entire life where her
> > > > performance was more than 2600?
> > >
> > > > Even assuming there was no outright cheating, it is an undisputed fact
> > > > that Polgar arranged the entire event and that she selected, invited
> > > > and paid the players. Would you really expect that any players playing
> > > > under those conditions would be playing their best?
> > >
> > > > Sam Sloan
> > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 2:04 AM, Eric Schiller wrote:
> > >
> > > > "The big question is where are the games? Who has the scoresheets?
> > > > What do the other players say about the games. The arbiter is
> > > > responsible for the scoresheets."
> > >
> > > > As far as I know, but I am not sure, could you check, the games are
> > > > not on ChessBase as the games of an all-grandmaster event normally
> > > > would be. The games were also not posted on TWIC.
> > >
> > > > This adds to the suspicion that there was something phony about the
> > > > games.
> > >
> > > > The arbiters were Jim and Frank Berry. I do not know who has the
> > > > scoresheets.
> > >
> > > > Sam Sloan
> > >
> > > Didn't we go through this a year ago? I know we did, since I pulled
> > > out the games at the time and uploaded them as PGN. Seewww.westernchess.com/hold/mayorcup.pgn. Do we have to do it again
> > > every time Sloan's memory fails him?
> >
> > Hey!! You just posted that there this morning. The date of that file
> > 29 July 2008. No wonder I could not "remember" them.
> >
> > Where did you get that and how do you know that those games are
> > authentic?
> >
> > Sam Sloan
>
>
> The file's been there for a year. I renamed it when I replied to your
> latest idiocy because the web host I use is case-sensitive and there
> was a problem with the file name being mixed-case. As I recall, the
> games came from a TWIC download. Given sufficient effort I could
> verify that, but I'm certainly not going to go to the trouble for a
> moron like you. If you don't know enough to look up games, you have no
> business commenting on the subject.
BTW, the games are all available through the ChessBase online
database, http://www.chesslive.de/. Did you even bother to look, Sam?
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Date: 29 Jul 2008 03:34:51
From:
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
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samsloan wrote:
> On Jul 29, 3:30 am, [email protected] wrote:
> > samsloan wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Eric Schiller wrote:
> >
> > > You keep referring to s "suspicious" tournament without evidence
> > > from the other participants. Either make an accusation or forget about
> > > it. Every time you reach for some unproven speculation on the past,
> > > you undermine the present case against Polgar.
> >
> > > Eric
> >
> > > Have you calculated Polgar's performance rating in that event? It is
> > > about 2750 !!
> >
> > > Can you cite any other tournament in her entire life where her
> > > performance was more than 2600?
> >
> > > Even assuming there was no outright cheating, it is an undisputed fact
> > > that Polgar arranged the entire event and that she selected, invited
> > > and paid the players. Would you really expect that any players playing
> > > under those conditions would be playing their best?
> >
> > > Sam Sloan
> >
> > > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 2:04 AM, Eric Schiller wrote:
> >
> > > "The big question is where are the games? Who has the scoresheets?
> > > What do the other players say about the games. The arbiter is
> > > responsible for the scoresheets."
> >
> > > As far as I know, but I am not sure, could you check, the games are
> > > not on ChessBase as the games of an all-grandmaster event normally
> > > would be. The games were also not posted on TWIC.
> >
> > > This adds to the suspicion that there was something phony about the
> > > games.
> >
> > > The arbiters were Jim and Frank Berry. I do not know who has the
> > > scoresheets.
> >
> > > Sam Sloan
> >
> > Didn't we go through this a year ago? I know we did, since I pulled
> > out the games at the time and uploaded them as PGN. Seewww.westernchess.com/hold/mayorcup.pgn. Do we have to do it again
> > every time Sloan's memory fails him?
>
> Hey!! You just posted that there this morning. The date of that file
> 29 July 2008. No wonder I could not "remember" them.
>
> Where did you get that and how do you know that those games are
> authentic?
>
> Sam Sloan
The file's been there for a year. I renamed it when I replied to your
latest idiocy because the web host I use is case-sensitive and there
was a problem with the file name being mixed-case. As I recall, the
games came from a TWIC download. Given sufficient effort I could
verify that, but I'm certainly not going to go to the trouble for a
moron like you. If you don't know enough to look up games, you have no
business commenting on the subject.
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Date: 29 Jul 2008 02:51:12
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
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On Jul 29, 3:30 am, [email protected] wrote:
> samsloan wrote:
> > On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Eric Schiller wrote:
>
> > You keep referring to s "suspicious" tournament without evidence
> > from the other participants. Either make an accusation or forget about
> > it. Every time you reach for some unproven speculation on the past,
> > you undermine the present case against Polgar.
>
> > Eric
>
> > Have you calculated Polgar's performance rating in that event? It is
> > about 2750 !!
>
> > Can you cite any other tournament in her entire life where her
> > performance was more than 2600?
>
> > Even assuming there was no outright cheating, it is an undisputed fact
> > that Polgar arranged the entire event and that she selected, invited
> > and paid the players. Would you really expect that any players playing
> > under those conditions would be playing their best?
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 2:04 AM, Eric Schiller wrote:
>
> > "The big question is where are the games? Who has the scoresheets?
> > What do the other players say about the games. The arbiter is
> > responsible for the scoresheets."
>
> > As far as I know, but I am not sure, could you check, the games are
> > not on ChessBase as the games of an all-grandmaster event normally
> > would be. The games were also not posted on TWIC.
>
> > This adds to the suspicion that there was something phony about the
> > games.
>
> > The arbiters were Jim and Frank Berry. I do not know who has the
> > scoresheets.
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> Didn't we go through this a year ago? I know we did, since I pulled
> out the games at the time and uploaded them as PGN. Seewww.westernchess.com/hold/mayorcup.pgn. Do we have to do it again
> every time Sloan's memory fails him?
Hey!! You just posted that there this morning. The date of that file
29 July 2008. No wonder I could not "remember" them.
Where did you get that and how do you know that those games are
authentic?
Sam Sloan
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Date: 29 Jul 2008 01:30:43
From:
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
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samsloan wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Eric Schiller wrote:
>
> You keep referring to s "suspicious" tournament without evidence
> from the other participants. Either make an accusation or forget about
> it. Every time you reach for some unproven speculation on the past,
> you undermine the present case against Polgar.
>
> Eric
>
>
> Have you calculated Polgar's performance rating in that event? It is
> about 2750 !!
>
> Can you cite any other tournament in her entire life where her
> performance was more than 2600?
>
> Even assuming there was no outright cheating, it is an undisputed fact
> that Polgar arranged the entire event and that she selected, invited
> and paid the players. Would you really expect that any players playing
> under those conditions would be playing their best?
>
> Sam Sloan
>
> On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 2:04 AM, Eric Schiller wrote:
>
> "The big question is where are the games? Who has the scoresheets?
> What do the other players say about the games. The arbiter is
> responsible for the scoresheets."
>
> As far as I know, but I am not sure, could you check, the games are
> not on ChessBase as the games of an all-grandmaster event normally
> would be. The games were also not posted on TWIC.
>
> This adds to the suspicion that there was something phony about the
> games.
>
> The arbiters were Jim and Frank Berry. I do not know who has the
> scoresheets.
>
> Sam Sloan
Didn't we go through this a year ago? I know we did, since I pulled
out the games at the time and uploaded them as PGN. See
www.westernchess.com/hold/mayorcup.pgn. Do we have to do it again
every time Sloan's memory fails him?
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Date: 28 Jul 2008 21:34:49
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
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[quote="DACP"]My request is very simple - who was invited and
declined? Contrary to others who choose to focus solely on Ms.
Polgar, I am much more focused on whether other women chessplayers did
or did not receive invites to this event. If Ms. Polgar was
overlooked, were others as well?[/quote]
Yes, in fact several other women players were overlooked:
ELENA DONALDSON-AKHMILOVSKAYA rated 2429
http://www.uschess.org/msa/MbrDtlMain.php?12523510
ANJELINA BELAKOVSKAIA rated 2361
http://www.uschess.org/msa/MbrDtlMain.php?12559824
ANNA GULKO rated 2397
http://www.uschess.org/msa/MbrDtlMain.php?12475421
IRINA LEVITINA rated 2384
http://www.uschess.org/msa/MbrDtlMain.php?12553362
[QUOTE]Also, to phrase it a different way, wouldn't it make a lot of
sense to have a published process for determining the criteria for
making decisions such as these so that this sort of situation could be
avoided altogether?[/QUOTE]
We have one. It is here:
http://www.uschess.org/tds/invitations.html
[QUOTE]And as far as whether Ms. Polgar would or would not have
accepted really does not matter. Seven years ago I said things which
no longer hold true.
Donna Alarie [/quote]
This is not seven years ago. This is now. The World Chess Olympiad
takes place in Dresden, Germany in November and Susan is refusing to
play for the US Team. Who would have guessed that she would suddenly
want to play in China in October, especially since the last time she
was invited to China which was when she was supposed to defend her
Woman's World Championship there, she refused to go there.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 28 Jul 2008 09:35:25
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
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On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Eric Schiller wrote:
You keep referring to s "suspicious" tournament without evidence
from the other participants. Either make an accusation or forget about
it. Every time you reach for some unproven speculation on the past,
you undermine the present case against Polgar.
Eric
Have you calculated Polgar's performance rating in that event? It is
about 2750 !!
Can you cite any other tournament in her entire life where her
performance was more than 2600?
Even assuming there was no outright cheating, it is an undisputed fact
that Polgar arranged the entire event and that she selected, invited
and paid the players. Would you really expect that any players playing
under those conditions would be playing their best?
Sam Sloan
On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 2:04 AM, Eric Schiller wrote:
"The big question is where are the games? Who has the scoresheets?
What do the other players say about the games. The arbiter is
responsible for the scoresheets."
As far as I know, but I am not sure, could you check, the games are
not on ChessBase as the games of an all-grandmaster event normally
would be. The games were also not posted on TWIC.
This adds to the suspicion that there was something phony about the
games.
The arbiters were Jim and Frank Berry. I do not know who has the
scoresheets.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 28 Jul 2008 08:38:54
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
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On Jul 28, 11:01 am, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "samsloan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:378e8db8-bd53-4c49-8ec8-1fb7a1060b51@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Jul 26, 5:31 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Sure invite them! Rank them strongest at blitz and OTB. Is Polgar #1 or
> >> no?
>
> > If Susan wants to prove that she is the strongest woman player, then
> > she should prove it!
>
> Ad argumentum. She has a rating! a rating QED is the proof.
>
> > Both Irina Krush and Anna Whats-her-name have improved considerable in
> > the last few years during which Susan has not played at all. It is by
> > no means certain that Susan would be able to beat them any more.
>
> Speculation instead of proof? Their proofs are also available as represented
> by their ratings.
Susan has an old inactive rating based primarily on her results prior
to 1996 plus one exhibition event in 2006 where she invited, hired and
paid her opponents.
Irina and Anna are both active players who participate regularly in
grandmaster events. If any players are to be invited and sent, it
should be Irina and Anna. If Susan wants to start receiving
invitations, she should start playing chess again, and stop trying to
get invitations by screaming on her blog that she is a victim of
invidious discrimination.
I was rated 2104 in 1997. I do not go around telling everybody that I
am a 2100 player (unlike Randy Bauer, who keeps claiming that he is a
2300 player even though he achieved that rating only one time in his
life and that was in 1997).
Sam Sloan
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Date: 28 Jul 2008 08:18:02
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
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On Jul 28, 10:01 am, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> I had a bad tournament once, the last I played in. I had the flu, lost to 2
> patzers, went home slept for 30 hours.
Is that when you lost your 2450 rating?
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Date: 28 Jul 2008 00:12:04
From:
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
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samsloan wrote:
> On Jul 27, 7:07 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> > samsloan wrote:
> > > The infamous quote from former US Woman's Champion and Woman's
> > > Grandmaster Anjelina Belakovskaia, "Polgar is screaming", certainly
> > > applies to the current situation.
> >
> > > Take a look at the Polgar blogs at:
> >
> > >http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/07/official-question-for-uscf.html
> >
> > >http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1362
> >
> > > Note that whenever anybody asks an embarrassing question, such as
> > > "Since you knew about this event on the first of June, while did you
> > > remain silent about it until now?", Susan deletes such unanswerable
> > > questions from her blog.
> >
> > > Also, with regard to her demand that she be sent now, does Susan
> > > realize that if the USCF spends any money to send her to China, that
> > > might be deemed a violation of Section 27(2)(a) of the "Delegate
> > > Actions of Continuing Interest" which is on page 36 of the 2008
> > > Delegate's Call? Section 27 (2)(a) states:
> >
> > > "a) Except where noted below, no Executive Board member or a member of
> > > his immediate family may receive financial compensation from the USCF
> > > for any reason, except for standard reimbursement of expenses, during
> > > his tenure on the Board."
> >
> > > I do not see how Susan can get around this. This issue came up when
> > > she was running for the board. She said that since she was retired as
> > > an active player, it would not come up while she was on the board.
> > > Now, it has come up!!!
> >
> > > Regarding Jennifer Shahade, remember that Jennifer is essentially a
> > > news reporter writing news reports for the uschess.org website. She is
> > > on a regular salary. Thus, sending her to China so that she can write
> > > news reports is not only allowable, but it might even be required as
> > > part of her regular job.
> >
> > > Sam Sloan
> >
> > Straw man. The USCF is not giving anyone any money for the China trip.
> > The organizers are covering some (but not all) of the players'
> > expenses, but it's awfully hard to squeeze that into DACI-27.
>
> If that is really true and Susan really wants to go, why does she not
> just ask the organizers to pay her way?
>
> Why does she bother us about this?
>
> Sam Sloan
Because the invitation list is full. Like most FIDE-related events,
you only get in through your national federation. You're not that
ignorant, Sam, so let's skip the rhetorical questions.
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Date: 27 Jul 2008 20:02:13
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
On Jul 27, 7:07 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> samsloan wrote:
> > The infamous quote from former US Woman's Champion and Woman's
> > Grandmaster Anjelina Belakovskaia, "Polgar is screaming", certainly
> > applies to the current situation.
>
> > Take a look at the Polgar blogs at:
>
> >http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/07/official-question-for-uscf.html
>
> >http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1362
>
> > Note that whenever anybody asks an embarrassing question, such as
> > "Since you knew about this event on the first of June, while did you
> > remain silent about it until now?", Susan deletes such unanswerable
> > questions from her blog.
>
> > Also, with regard to her demand that she be sent now, does Susan
> > realize that if the USCF spends any money to send her to China, that
> > might be deemed a violation of Section 27(2)(a) of the "Delegate
> > Actions of Continuing Interest" which is on page 36 of the 2008
> > Delegate's Call? Section 27 (2)(a) states:
>
> > "a) Except where noted below, no Executive Board member or a member of
> > his immediate family may receive financial compensation from the USCF
> > for any reason, except for standard reimbursement of expenses, during
> > his tenure on the Board."
>
> > I do not see how Susan can get around this. This issue came up when
> > she was running for the board. She said that since she was retired as
> > an active player, it would not come up while she was on the board.
> > Now, it has come up!!!
>
> > Regarding Jennifer Shahade, remember that Jennifer is essentially a
> > news reporter writing news reports for the uschess.org website. She is
> > on a regular salary. Thus, sending her to China so that she can write
> > news reports is not only allowable, but it might even be required as
> > part of her regular job.
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> Straw man. The USCF is not giving anyone any money for the China trip.
> The organizers are covering some (but not all) of the players'
> expenses, but it's awfully hard to squeeze that into DACI-27.
If that is really true and Susan really wants to go, why does she not
just ask the organizers to pay her way?
Why does she bother us about this?
Sam Sloan
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Date: 27 Jul 2008 16:07:07
From:
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
samsloan wrote:
> The infamous quote from former US Woman's Champion and Woman's
> Grandmaster Anjelina Belakovskaia, "Polgar is screaming", certainly
> applies to the current situation.
>
> Take a look at the Polgar blogs at:
>
> http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/07/official-question-for-uscf.html
>
> http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1362
>
> Note that whenever anybody asks an embarrassing question, such as
> "Since you knew about this event on the first of June, while did you
> remain silent about it until now?", Susan deletes such unanswerable
> questions from her blog.
>
> Also, with regard to her demand that she be sent now, does Susan
> realize that if the USCF spends any money to send her to China, that
> might be deemed a violation of Section 27(2)(a) of the "Delegate
> Actions of Continuing Interest" which is on page 36 of the 2008
> Delegate's Call? Section 27 (2)(a) states:
>
> "a) Except where noted below, no Executive Board member or a member of
> his immediate family may receive financial compensation from the USCF
> for any reason, except for standard reimbursement of expenses, during
> his tenure on the Board."
>
> I do not see how Susan can get around this. This issue came up when
> she was running for the board. She said that since she was retired as
> an active player, it would not come up while she was on the board.
> Now, it has come up!!!
>
> Regarding Jennifer Shahade, remember that Jennifer is essentially a
> news reporter writing news reports for the uschess.org website. She is
> on a regular salary. Thus, sending her to China so that she can write
> news reports is not only allowable, but it might even be required as
> part of her regular job.
>
> Sam Sloan
Straw man. The USCF is not giving anyone any money for the China trip.
The organizers are covering some (but not all) of the players'
expenses, but it's awfully hard to squeeze that into DACI-27.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2008 09:20:28
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
I do not think this is an important political issue on either side.
Nevertheless, it raises an interesting question. The issue of why the
USCF should/should not send players to an event may mean that
different players should be sent, especially in a case like this. Some
of the reasons we might be sending players include
a) Positive press coverage for sending a successful team
b) Support of the international organization sponsoring the event
c) Support of chess in general
d) Rewarding and encouraging good performances in US chess events
e) Giving our players who would not otherwise have chances to do so a
chance to compete internationally
There are probably many other reasons as well. I can see
justifications for each of these reasons, but some of them would
suggest sending very different teams.
If we feel the main mission is to have a successful team, it is
obvious that Susan Polgar should be on the team. If we want to reward
players who have been doing well in recent events, it is obvious that
she should not be. I am not taking a position here; I can really see
positives on both sides when I compare sending a weaker player who has
been working hard to improve and gets fewer opportunities, and I can
also see positives in sending a "name" player who is semi-retired from
high level chess. I can even see the position that it doesn't really
matter who the team is, you just want to show the support for
international chess events.
Certainly, we should set up rules and stick with them so nobody feels
they were unfairly treated. I don't see any malice here, and there
should be no bad taste in anybody's mouth. I would like to hear how
people feel about our reasons for sending teams to events. The only
team event that really bothered me was the Anna Hahn affair; I felt
that she was treated badly. She wasn't as strong as some, but she won
her place fairly, and I don't see that a higher position for the US
team is sufficient tradeoff for the unfairness she must see from her
point of view.
Jerry Spinrad
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2008 06:59:55
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
The infamous quote from former US Woman's Champion and Woman's
Grandmaster Anjelina Belakovskaia, "Polgar is screaming", certainly
applies to the current situation.
Take a look at the Polgar blogs at:
http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/07/official-question-for-uscf.html
http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1362
Note that whenever anybody asks an embarrassing question, such as
"Since you knew about this event on the first of June, while did you
remain silent about it until now?", Susan deletes such unanswerable
questions from her blog.
Also, with regard to her demand that she be sent now, does Susan
realize that if the USCF spends any money to send her to China, that
might be deemed a violation of Section 27(2)(a) of the "Delegate
Actions of Continuing Interest" which is on page 36 of the 2008
Delegate's Call? Section 27 (2)(a) states:
"a) Except where noted below, no Executive Board member or a member of
his immediate family may receive financial compensation from the USCF
for any reason, except for standard reimbursement of expenses, during
his tenure on the Board."
I do not see how Susan can get around this. This issue came up when
she was running for the board. She said that since she was retired as
an active player, it would not come up while she was on the board.
Now, it has come up!!!
Regarding Jennifer Shahade, remember that Jennifer is essentially a
news reporter writing news reports for the uschess.org website. She is
on a regular salary. Thus, sending her to China so that she can write
news reports is not only allowable, but it might even be required as
part of her regular job.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2008 02:18:50
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
I personally would have liked to see Polgar play in Beijing, but she
did not tell anybody that she wanted to play until July 21. I sent my
first email trying to get myself invited to the Chinese chess section
on June 10. Polgar is always aggressive at saying what she wants, so
why did she remain silent until after the team had been selected?
Perhaps she really did not want to play but just wanted to score a
political point without having to prove herself against her rivals.
Please note that after excluding her suspicious result in the 2006 NYC
Mayor's Cup, her rating of 2557 is about the same as that of Irina
Krush, who is rated 2534. In a match between Irina and Susan, I would
consider Irina to be the favorite. Irina is playing actively at the
top levels and beat US Champion Alexander Shabalov recently. Polgar is
out of practice, having not played since 1996 except for the 2004
Olympiad.
It is really objectionable that Polgar keeps saying that she is the
best player when she is not willing to sit down at the board and play
a game of chess.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2008 01:49:47
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
On Jul 27, 3:26 am, J=FCrgen R. <[email protected] > wrote:
> [...]
>
>
>
> > If you look at Susan's overall record, she is not really that strong.
> > For example, she finished dead last in the PCA Interzonal.
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> Sloan, you are a dung beetle.
>
> Even when one of your assertions is true you manage to
> lie, in this case by omission:
>
> Susan Polgar was last in the 1993 PCA Interzonal
> and she also was the player with the lowest rating.
>
> Her rating at that time was 2545. Since that's about
> 700 points higher than your rating your comments
> on her strength are irrelevant.
>
> So you think 2545 is "not really that strong"? You mean there
> are a couple of hundred stronger players in the world?
>
> Today 2545 would make you Nr. 6 among women worldwide, and it
> would make you Nr. 21 in the U.S., just ahead of DeFirmian and
> just behind Dzindzi.
2545 is about what Susan is now. Before her suspicious result in the
2006 NYC Mayor's Cup where she invited and paid all the players, her
rating was 2557. See
http://www.uschess.org/msa/MbrDtlTnmtHst.php?12452240
2557 is by no means a weak player, but it is only slightly higher than
the ratings of Irina and Anna. I would be willing to bet that Irina
could beat her in a match. You can be sure that Polgar will not be
willing to play such a match. She will just keep claiming that she is
the best player without proving it over the board. She is still
claiming over on her own blog to have won the "triple crown" of chess,
even though there is no such event or title.
Sam Sloan
|
| | |
Date: 29 Jul 2008 08:37:19
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
"samsloan" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Jul 27, 3:26 am, J�rgen R. <[email protected] > wrote:
> [...]
>
>
>
> > If you look at Susan's overall record, she is not really that strong.
> > For example, she finished dead last in the PCA Interzonal.
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> Sloan, you are a dung beetle.
>
> Even when one of your assertions is true you manage to
> lie, in this case by omission:
>
> Susan Polgar was last in the 1993 PCA Interzonal
> and she also was the player with the lowest rating.
>
> Her rating at that time was 2545. Since that's about
> 700 points higher than your rating your comments
> on her strength are irrelevant.
>
> So you think 2545 is "not really that strong"? You mean there
> are a couple of hundred stronger players in the world?
>
> Today 2545 would make you Nr. 6 among women worldwide, and it
> would make you Nr. 21 in the U.S., just ahead of DeFirmian and
> just behind Dzindzi.
2545 is about what Susan is now. Before her suspicious result in the
2006 NYC Mayor's Cup where she invited and paid all the players, her
rating was 2557. See
http://www.uschess.org/msa/MbrDtlTnmtHst.php?12452240
2557 is by no means a weak player, but it is only slightly higher than
the ratings of Irina and Anna. I would be willing to bet that Irina
could beat her in a match. You can be sure that Polgar will not be
willing to play such a match.
**Raise a prize fund and stop speculating! - but do this, have Susan play
Irina K, Anna Z and Jenn S in a clock SIMUL. ;))
Phil Innes
She will just keep claiming that she is
the best player without proving it over the board. She is still
claiming over on her own blog to have won the "triple crown" of chess,
even though there is no such event or title.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 26 Jul 2008 17:51:13
From:
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
samsloan wrote:
> On Jul 26, 5:31 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "samsloan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > > Also, if inactive players are to be invited, why not invite Elena
> > > Donaldson-Akhmylovskaia, Irina Levintina, Anna Akhsharumova Gulko, and
> > > Anjelina Belakovskaia? All of them are stronger than most of the women
> > > on the team, but they have not played in years.
> >
> > Sure invite them! Rank them strongest at blitz and OTB. Is Polgar #1 or no?
>
> Not just anybody can play. It is not a team event, so we are not
> really sending a team.
>
> I have been trying for months to get invited to the Chinese Chess or
> Xiangqi section of the event. I am clearly the best known non-Chinese
> player of Chinese Chess in the USA.
>
> However, this year, unlike previous years, there is no non-Chinese
> division and I am not strong enough to compete against the Chinese
> grandmasters of Chinese Chess (some of whom are also grandmasters of
> International Chess).
>
> I am willing to pay my own way to Beijing and nobody is disputing that
> I am the best non-Chinese player in the USA but still I cannot get
> invited.
>
> So why should random riff-raff be allowed to play?
>
> Sam Sloan
1) Who exactly is it you think should invite you to play in the
Xiangqi event? It's an interesting game, but it has nothing to do with
the USCF.
2) Actually, the chess section does include a team event, but that's a
quibble.
3) Despite PI's frothing, Sam is probably right that everyone simply
assumed Polgar would not be interested. Whether she would have been,
absent the chance to score a political point, is a good question.
|
| |
Date: 26 Jul 2008 16:29:41
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
On Jul 26, 5:31 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "samsloan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Also, if inactive players are to be invited, why not invite Elena
> > Donaldson-Akhmylovskaia, Irina Levintina, Anna Akhsharumova Gulko, and
> > Anjelina Belakovskaia? All of them are stronger than most of the women
> > on the team, but they have not played in years.
>
> Sure invite them! Rank them strongest at blitz and OTB. Is Polgar #1 or no?
Not just anybody can play. It is not a team event, so we are not
really sending a team.
I have been trying for months to get invited to the Chinese Chess or
Xiangqi section of the event. I am clearly the best known non-Chinese
player of Chinese Chess in the USA.
However, this year, unlike previous years, there is no non-Chinese
division and I am not strong enough to compete against the Chinese
grandmasters of Chinese Chess (some of whom are also grandmasters of
International Chess).
I am willing to pay my own way to Beijing and nobody is disputing that
I am the best non-Chinese player in the USA but still I cannot get
invited.
So why should random riff-raff be allowed to play?
Sam Sloan
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2008 09:50:05
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_R.?=
Subject: AW: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
[...]
>
>
> I have been trying for months to get invited to the Chinese Chess or
> Xiangqi section of the event.
But I told you, about 3 months ago, that they were ready to invite you.
I even gave you the name of the person to address.
> I am clearly the best known non-Chinese
> player of Chinese Chess in the USA.
Right. Here is a listing some of the strongest International
Masters in the U.S. http://www.chessvariants.com/chinfaq.html#question20
USA
Slo, Sor Dong (Also known as Sam Sloan) (South Bronx)
Lee, Michael (Also known as Li BiChi) (SF Bay Area)
Yan DotSun (also known as Zhen DaXin) (San Francisco)
Chen TanHua (New York)
Gao WeiXuan (New York) (1995 ICCS Champion)
Tom, Bang (New York)
Tom, Jing (New York)
Mou Hai Qin (New York)
Yang, Frank (Los Angeles)
So BingCham (Los Angeles)
If you want to see some of Sor Dong's best games and
his complete tournament record check
http://www.anusha.com/kidnap.htm
>
> However, this year, unlike previous years, there is no non-Chinese
> division
Right. This event is called "1st Mind Sports Games". Last
year it was called "Non-Chinese World Luk Long Dong
Games".
> and I am not strong enough to compete against the Chinese
> grandmasters of Chinese Chess (some of whom are also grandmasters of
> International Chess).
To see proof of this check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAON2vgw1kc
(if you can't understand what the old fart with the wart on his chin is
saying - it's just as well, believe me).
>
> I am willing to pay my own way to Beijing and nobody is disputing that
> I am the best non-Chinese player in the USA but still I cannot get
> invited.
>
> So why should random riff-raff be allowed to play?
>
> Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 26 Jul 2008 15:45:18
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
On Jul 26, 5:31 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> Sure invite them! Rank them strongest at blitz and OTB. Is Polgar #1 or no?
If Susan wants to prove that she is the strongest woman player, then
she should prove it!
Both Irina Krush and Anna Whats-her-name have improved considerable in
the last few years during which Susan has not played at all. It is by
no means certain that Susan would be able to beat them any more. In
fact I would be willing to bet on Irina and I am sure that I would
find lots of backers.
If you look at Susan's overall record, she is not really that strong.
For example, she finished dead last in the PCA Interzonal.
Sam Sloan
|
| | |
Date: 28 Jul 2008 11:01:41
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
"samsloan" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:378e8db8-bd53-4c49-8ec8-1fb7a1060b51@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 26, 5:31 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Sure invite them! Rank them strongest at blitz and OTB. Is Polgar #1 or
>> no?
>
> If Susan wants to prove that she is the strongest woman player, then
> she should prove it!
Ad argumentum. She has a rating! a rating QED is the proof.
> Both Irina Krush and Anna Whats-her-name have improved considerable in
> the last few years during which Susan has not played at all. It is by
> no means certain that Susan would be able to beat them any more.
Speculation instead of proof? Their proofs are also available as represented
by their ratings.
> In
> fact I would be willing to bet on Irina and I am sure that I would
> find lots of backers.
What is very strange is that Sam Sloan argues both sides of every issue, and
both sides are ever the fault of Susan Polgar.
I remember when he argued for a 2100 player to be included in the Olympiad
squad, but that player lacked the activity requirement. Then he suggests 4
more inactive players for this event, as preference to a 2600+ player, and
fabulously asks proof of their skill, but not apparently measured in
ratings - using what he would wager as 'proof'.
These sorts of things hardly require answering, and there are soooooo many
of them. But I make another suggestion to Sam Sloan below.
> If you look at Susan's overall record, she is not really that strong.
> For example, she finished dead last in the PCA Interzonal.
I had a bad tournament once, the last I played in. I had the flu, lost to 2
patzers, went home slept for 30 hours. OTOH, Polgar has played Karpov a
couple of times recently, did pretty well - and he is no patzer. In the
event I put on she played Khalifman, and missed a draw in one game, and was
at least equal in the other.
So, joking around about various players strength is all that is going on
here - btw - I see in other material you 'suggested' some ill-will between
her and Boris Gulko. Not evident to me! I stood around and talked with them
both with Sam Palatnik for a hour or so, when they unguardedly all discussed
their coming to the West, and what influenced them most. It was a most
cordial and respectful conversation.
It really is not necessary to continue to rage against people, obsessively,
if you are dissapointed in your own relations with them, your own lost
propects.
It is not really perceived as anything other than your own inability to be
emotional aware of your /own/ state - since the speculatory material you
offer is so evidently distorted, that only someone not quite right with
their own feelings would offer it up in public.
Like the people who shoved a microphone in front of Fischer, those who egg
Sam Sloan on to further bad-boy stuff, are NOT his friends.
Sam Sloan might realise that outer circumstance will not release him from
his obsession, and to continue as he does is to chose to live his life in
the shade of others. I do not doubt his sincere dedication to chess nor his
energy and enthusiasm for it, its history, et al, but it is not too late to
make his own mark in his own right, rather than in association with other
people, continuing to exist in their shade, so to speak.
Phil Innes
> Sam Sloan
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2008 09:26:21
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_R.?=
Subject: AW: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
[...]
>
> If you look at Susan's overall record, she is not really that strong.
> For example, she finished dead last in the PCA Interzonal.
>
> Sam Sloan
Sloan, you are a dung beetle.
Even when one of your assertions is true you manage to
lie, in this case by omission:
Susan Polgar was last in the 1993 PCA Interzonal
and she also was the player with the lowest rating.
Her rating at that time was 2545. Since that's about
700 points higher than your rating your comments
on her strength are irrelevant.
So you think 2545 is "not really that strong"? You mean there
are a couple of hundred stronger players in the world?
Today 2545 would make you Nr. 6 among women worldwide, and it
would make you Nr. 21 in the U.S., just ahead of DeFirmian and
just behind Dzindzi.
|
| |
Date: 26 Jul 2008 13:36:53
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 3:33 PM, <[email protected] > wrote:
----------------------------------
Are you sure you know what you are talking about?
20058274 (PA) Life 2318 2138 SHAHADE, JENNIFER
(last played in 2004)
12452240 (TX) Life 2597 2621 POLGAR, SUSAN ZSUZSA
(last played in 2006)
http://main.uschess.org/content/view/8575/468/
Individual Women: Blitz and Rapid
Krush Irina (only blitz), Shahade Jennifer (both blitz and rapid),
Abby Marshall (only Rapid) and Zenyuk Iryna.
We are still waiting for an official explanation by Mr. Bill Hall.
No one can properly explain so far. Perhaps you know something no one
else does.
----------------------------------
http://www.uschess.org/tds/invitations.html
Sam Sloan
What almost undoubtedly happened is that Susan has turned down all
invitations since 1996 so they just assumed that she would not be
interested in playing. Jennifer Shahade rarely gets invited to
anything so when the rest of the other women declined they turned to
her.
Susan has been invited to hundreds of events. She always declines.
When I was staying in Susan's apartment in Budapest, Hungary, the
phone rang every day with people inviting her to events. Susan would
tell them how much money she wanted, which was usually a minimum of
$1000.
What surprises everybody is that you and Susan have known about this
event since early June, yet until July 21 when you sent a BINFO about
it you never any expressed interest in it. Are you just piqued that
you did not get invited? The only thing that can happen now from your
point of view is that Jennifer be disqualified.
By the way, are you willing to go at your own expense, or do you want
for the USCF to pay for your and Susan's trip?
Also, if inactive players are to be invited, why not invite Elena
Donaldson-Akhmylovskaia, Irina Levintina, Anna Akhsharumova Gulko, and
Anjelina Belakovskaia? All of them are stronger than most of the women
on the team, but they have not played in years.
Sam Sloan
|
| | |
Date: 26 Jul 2008 17:31:12
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
"samsloan" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:20d235e6-826c-4800-b266-af44570128ad@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 3:33 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------
>
> Are you sure you know what you are talking about?
>
> 20058274 (PA) Life 2318 2138 SHAHADE, JENNIFER
> (last played in 2004)
>
> 12452240 (TX) Life 2597 2621 POLGAR, SUSAN ZSUZSA
> (last played in 2006)
>
> http://main.uschess.org/content/view/8575/468/
>
> Individual Women: Blitz and Rapid
> Krush Irina (only blitz), Shahade Jennifer (both blitz and rapid),
> Abby Marshall (only Rapid) and Zenyuk Iryna.
>
> We are still waiting for an official explanation by Mr. Bill Hall.
> No one can properly explain so far. Perhaps you know something no one
> else does.
> ----------------------------------
>
>
> http://www.uschess.org/tds/invitations.html
>
>
> Sam Sloan
>
>
> What almost undoubtedly happened
But not by any evidence of what the person herself says, but by the
'undoubtable' recommendations of Sam Sloan?
R
O
F
L
!
!
> is that Susan has turned down all
> invitations since 1996 so they just assumed
Amateur business attitude. Assume nothing!
Actually, if the Olympiad event was the last interest as team event, I make
the contra assumption that this event would be entirely in line with Susan
Polgar's last known interest.
Yet I need not assume anything, since my e-mails get answered in 24 hours,
and I do not eliminate a player in favor or one 300 points lower, because
"I" assume - who assumes exactly
|
| |
Date: 26 Jul 2008 16:01:50
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
"samsloan" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
>
> There is an amazing new development over on the Polgar censored
> discussion group. Suddenly, Susan Polgar is saying that she wants to
> be sent to Beijing China to represent the US in the World Mind Games
> Championship.
>
> http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1362
>
> The reason this is astounding is that Polgar is not on the top-50
> rated players lists because she has not played a rated game of chess
> in two years and that was in a blitz tournament. The last time she
> played in a regular rated game was 2005 and that was the US Amateur
> Team East where she lost to a 1700 player named Roberto Jose. The last
> time she played in a FIDE Rated event was in 2004.
What Sam Sloan [inaccurately] references is the fact that in January Fide
issued their invitation to form national teams. In June USCF responded by
asking people to sign up - few did, so not the best 4 or 5 were picked, but
lists extended to number 30 on the list.
There seems to be no activity rating necessary for participants...
Yet, mysteriously, even if there were, then Susan Polgar received no
invitation yet Jen Shahade did. Here are their respective OTB/Blitz ratings
and recent activity:
20058274 (PA) Life 2318 2138 SHAHADE, JENNIFER
(last played in 2004)
12452240 (TX) Life 2597 2621 POLGAR, SUSAN ZSUZSA
(last played in 2006)
> http://www.uschess.org/msa/MbrDtlTnmtHst.php?12452240
>
> After that event in 2004, she said that she would never represent the
> US again. Here are the exact words of her husband and representative:
>
> Apr 15, 2006
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fide-chess/message/25524
> Congratulations! You won! As I told you before, Susan will not play in
> any future Olympiad, even after 2010. This is directly because of
> Beatriz and the KCF.
Let me abbreviate Sam Sloan's further 'interest' in representing this
matter, by pointing out that this is not an Olympiad, and secondly, 'will
not play in any future one' is the determination of USCF, not necessarily
her own will.
The rest, is as usual, spun. I hope these facts will represent why USA sucks
at chess abroad. 6 months of do nothing, then John D as intermediary shoved
into the scene to sort it out, but who at length didn't even overlooked the
GM on USCF's own board.
The idiotic views of Sloan do not actually contest that the best team is not
being sent, nor contest that USCF did nothing January to June. They do not
contest that by any basis something is very wrong with USCF's behavior,
which I have to remind myself is not the happy land of amatuers as usually
protrayed, but 25 something salaried people led by Bill Hall.
Bill Hall certainly dropped the ball!
Instead of any standard of fiarness, or even chance to win something, Sam
Sloan prefers to /speculate/ that Susan Polgar would want to bring her
husband and mother.
pfft!
Phil Innes
[I eliminated 3 newsgroups from this response.]
> Now, however, Susan realizes that the members of the US Team will get
> a free all expenses paid trip to Beijing China. She wants to go.
> However, since the team has already been selected, she wants to have
> one of the team members kicked off and replaced by her. She wants one
> of our active and promising young players to be kicked of the team
> just so she can get a free trip to China.
>
> This exact thing has happened with Susan Polgar before. Indeed, almost
> every one of her gripes and disputes with the USCF has been a mirror
> image of a similar dispute with the Hungarian Chess Federation before
> she got here.
>
> In 1984 the same thing happened. Hungary wanted her to play on the
> women's team in the World Chess Olympiad. The Polgar Family set
> conditions. Finally, after a long and acrimonious dispute, Susan
> refused to play.
>
> In 1986, with the Hungarian Chess Federation relations with the Polgar
> Family being even worse, the Hungarian Chess Federation just selected
> a team without her and sent that team. Susan then complained that she
> had not even been asked. She admitted to me that if she had been asked
> she would have set the same conditions as she had set in 1984, but
> said that they were required to ask her anyway.
>
> One of the major issues in the 1984 dispute was that Susan wanted to
> bring her mother along too. This on the surface seems entirely
> reasonable. Susan was only 15 (and still a virgin by the way), so it
> seems reasonable that she should be allowed to bring her mother to the
> Olympiad.
>
> However, the Hungarian Chess Federation had a good reason not to want
> to bring her mother. They knew that if her mother was there, every
> little thing would have to be negotiated with the mother. The team
> captain could not just tell Susan to play this round or not play or
> whatever. The mother's permission would have to be obtained for every
> little thing. (Her father was not yet allowed to travel abroad with
> her.) The Hungarians had a lot of experience dealing with Susan's
> mother and knew that it would not be easy, so they just preferred not
> to have Susan on the team at all, to save the disruption the presence
> of her mother would bring.
>
> Now, we can see what is probably getting ready to happen. If the USCF
> caves in, kicks another player off the team and puts on Susan instead,
> the next thing that will happen is Susan will say that she wants to
> bring along Paul Truong too!
>
> When will this ever end?
>
> Sam Sloan
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Date: 26 Jul 2008 10:57:32
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
Probably what really happened is that it never crossed their minds
that Susan might want to play.
Susan announced her retirement in 1992. Since then, she has only
played twice, first to play for the Woman's World Championship in 1996
and second to play on the 2004 World Chess Olympiad. Her other events
have just been exhibition events, such as the 2006 NY Mayor's Cup.
Strangely, Susan announced the World Mind Games Championship months
ago on her websites at http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com Since she knew
about it back then, she should have notified the USCF at that time if
she wanted to play. Instead, she first inquired about it five days ago
on July 21 on BINFOS 200803086. With the deadline for entries having
passed last month, it is too late to substitute her on the team plus
that would be manifestly unfair to the already invited players.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 26 Jul 2008 04:33:35
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
On Jul 26, 2:15 am, [email protected] wrote:
> samsloan wrote:
> > Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
>
> > There is an amazing new development over on the Polgar censored
> > discussion group. Suddenly, Susan Polgar is saying that she wants to
> > be sent to Beijing China to represent the US in the World Mind Games
> > Championship.
>
> >http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1362
>
> > The reason this is astounding is that Polgar is not on the top-50
> > rated players lists because she has not played a rated game of chess
> > in two years and that was in a blitz tournament. The last time she
> > played in a regular rated game was 2005 and that was the US Amateur
> > Team East where she lost to a 1700 player named Roberto Jose. The last
> > time she played in a FIDE Rated event was in 2004.
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> Almost but not quite. (Could that be the Sloan coat of arms?) The
> Mayor's Cup in July 2006 was "regular rated." (It was also Quick
> rated, but so what?) Sloan is correct, however (mirabile dictu), that
> Polgar, not having played in two years, doesn't meet the USCF's
> invitation requirements. If she disagrees with the activity
> requirement, she can introduce a motion to change it, but a self-
> serving complaint like this shows very poor judgment on her part.
Now, Polgar is saying, without any basis, that this new event in
Beijing China does not have an activity requirement. If you look at
her tournament results, you will see that, with the exception of the
2005 US Amateur Team East (where she bombed out), Polgar she has not
played in a competitive tournament since 1995:
http://uschess.org/msa/MbrDtlTnmtHst.php?12452240
The Mayor's Cup in 2006 was an exhibition tournament arranged by
Polgar. She picked the players and arranged for them to be paid. For
example, the US Champion, 16-year-old Hikaru Nakamura, wanted very
much to play but Polgar would not let him into the tournament because
she knew that he would be a dangerous opponent.
There are a lot of suspicions and doubts about that tournament because
the full games have never been published and Polgar's result was far
better than any previous tournament in her life.
Polgar was accused of computer cheating in her match with Grandmaster
Gulko which she won 2-0. Polgar was kicked off of USChessLive for
computer cheating.
Back in 2004, when Polgar was trying to make the activity requirement
so she could play in the US Woman's Olympic Team, she played in
tournaments in her own chess club where all of her opponents were 1500
or 1600 players, such as this one:
http://www.uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?200402293340-12452240
This let to the comment by one of her chief rivals:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fide-chess/message/10188
"Also, on a personal note, I don't want to end up on the Team that
has a cheerleader. After all, in order to play for medals, the US Team
shouldn't have a player who is only brave enough to face beginners."
"Best regards,
"Anjelina
This let to the infamous comment by one of her top rivals that "Polgar
is screaming . . . like girls in a bordello fighting over a client".
Back in 2004, as now, Susan Polgar had not played a tournament game in
years and was not on the top-50 list. Polgar has never played in a US
Championship or a US Woman's Championship since she arrived in this
country in 1994. (She had such a bad reputation in Hungary that the
Hungarians did not want her any more.)
Here is what was said about her then:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fide-chess/message/10188
"And this is your DREAM TEAM?
"Look what you got: Krush and Shahade are against Goletiani, all of
them are against Hahn, illegally squeezed in Zatonskih is hiding,
Polgar is screaming.
"It sounds more like girls in a Bordello are fighting over a client,
rather than an Olympic Team preparing to win a medal.
"Why did we let Polgar come in the picture in the first place? Just
to ruin women chess in America and cut deals behind the
scenes? ................ Regarding the proposed tournament:
"As I noticed on forwarded to me Confidential (AGAIN!!!) E-mail from
Bill Goichberg my name is on the list of 8 possible participants.
Well, nobody called or even e-mailed to me, asking my opinion.
"It is one more deal, cut by Polgar and Co. This tournament is a
JOKE, as I strongly suspect that Susan already started to fill most of
the score sheets.
"I would suggest her to try herself in a role of a Madam and leave
American Chess scene for good."
"Best regards,
"Anjelina
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Date: 25 Jul 2008 23:15:03
From:
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
samsloan wrote:
> Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
>
> There is an amazing new development over on the Polgar censored
> discussion group. Suddenly, Susan Polgar is saying that she wants to
> be sent to Beijing China to represent the US in the World Mind Games
> Championship.
>
> http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1362
>
> The reason this is astounding is that Polgar is not on the top-50
> rated players lists because she has not played a rated game of chess
> in two years and that was in a blitz tournament. The last time she
> played in a regular rated game was 2005 and that was the US Amateur
> Team East where she lost to a 1700 player named Roberto Jose. The last
> time she played in a FIDE Rated event was in 2004.
>
> Sam Sloan
Almost but not quite. (Could that be the Sloan coat of arms?) The
Mayor's Cup in July 2006 was "regular rated." (It was also Quick
rated, but so what?) Sloan is correct, however (mirabile dictu), that
Polgar, not having played in two years, doesn't meet the USCF's
invitation requirements. If she disagrees with the activity
requirement, she can introduce a motion to change it, but a self-
serving complaint like this shows very poor judgment on her part.
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Date: 28 Jul 2008 10:12:49
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:9f82f60a-97da-4d56-b859-9022207fd785@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> samsloan wrote:
>> Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
>>
>> There is an amazing new development over on the Polgar censored
>> discussion group. Suddenly, Susan Polgar is saying that she wants to
>> be sent to Beijing China to represent the US in the World Mind Games
>> Championship.
>>
>> http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1362
>>
>> The reason this is astounding is that Polgar is not on the top-50
>> rated players lists because she has not played a rated game of chess
>> in two years and that was in a blitz tournament. The last time she
>> played in a regular rated game was 2005 and that was the US Amateur
>> Team East where she lost to a 1700 player named Roberto Jose. The last
>> time she played in a FIDE Rated event was in 2004.
>>
>> Sam Sloan
>
>
> Almost but not quite. (Could that be the Sloan coat of arms?) The
> Mayor's Cup in July 2006 was "regular rated." (It was also Quick
> rated, but so what?) Sloan is correct, however (mirabile dictu), that
> Polgar, not having played in two years, doesn't meet the USCF's
> invitation requirements.
Point 1 is that activity requirements were unknown til too late - otherwise
action could have been taken to remedy 'activity'
> If she disagrees with the activity
> requirement, she can introduce a motion to change it, but a self-
> serving complaint like this shows very poor judgment on her part.
Point 2 is that an even less active player [last games 04] was 'selected'
instead of SP's in 06.
Point 3 is that if you are a chess player, 'self-serving' means connection
with chess events, what else can be self serving about this scenario is
unexplained.
Phil Innes
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Date: 25 Jul 2008 22:31:12
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
On Jul 25, 10:38=A0pm, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> Now, however, Susan realizes that the members of the US Team will get
> a free all expenses paid trip to Beijing China.
If this is true, can Mr. Sloan explain how it
is possible that SP only realizes it "now"?
> She wants to go.
> However, since the team has already been selected, she wants to have
> one of the team members kicked off and replaced by her. She wants one
> of our active and promising young players to be kicked of the team
> just so she can get a free trip to China.
> Now, we can see what is probably getting ready to happen. If the USCF
> caves in, kicks another player off the team and puts on Susan instead,
> the next thing that will happen is Susan will say that she wants to
> bring along Paul Truong too!
>
> When will this ever end?
Perhaps when the man Mr. Sloan campaigned
for and got elected, BG, is no longer in absolute
power. It sure seems like everyone has been
paying dearly for Mr. Sloan's mistake; for his
recklessness. According to Mr. Sloan's own
reports, the man he helped get elected has
become something of a tyrant who never listens
and who wields nearly absolute power within
the USCF. I am imagining that if SP manages
to kick someone else off the team, it will be via
the heavy hand of dictator BG. Thanks for
nothing, Mr. Sloan.
-- help bot
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Date: 25 Jul 2008 20:55:21
From: SBD
Subject: Re: Amazing Polgar Gripe and a Repeat of History
|
I don't know Sam.
It strikes me as a fair question to ask - no question that there is a
lot of posturing and whining behind the question, but the question
deserved to be answered.
It also seems, for good or bad, that your complaints about Bill Hall
are now being echoed by Polgar. He's certainly no Ed Edmondson (again,
take that for what it is worth..).
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