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Date: 10 Jan 2008 07:39:28
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Do you trade Knights for Bishops ?
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If you have the opportunity to trade a knight for a bishop do you
take it ??
The bishop has long range power and the knight short range
power......# of squares that they can control......
For me it depends on how the game is going.
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Date: 10 Jan 2008 19:54:02
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Do you trade Knights for Bishops ?
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On Jan 10, 2:10 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> > The man discussed here, who held the office of Bishop of Rome, is
> > generally considered a good bishop:
>
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_XXIII
>
> > Others discussed here are considered bad bishops:
>
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes
>
> And Taylor ...... seriously ....... Popes and Bishops are simply not
> the same thing.
Popes, of course, are numero uno head honcho
Bishops, with better robes and a much better title.
The downside is that only feeble old men qualify
for the title, and they must practically be carried.
In lieu of this, it may be better to be a bad Bishop.
-- help bot
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Date: 10 Jan 2008 19:49:08
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Do you trade Knights for Bishops ?
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On Jan 10, 12:01 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> All in all, it depends on the position and the player's style. Most
> players seems to prefer Bishops in general.
>
> I know that Bobby Fischer was pretty adamant about preferring a Knight
> to a Bishop in the endgame.
This is exactly backwards; only when BF returned
in 1992 did he exhibit any favoritism for Knights,
probably in (over)response to critics who thought
he went much too far the other way.
> John Curdo, who holds the record for most chess tournament wins, was
> famous for saying "Two bishops is money in the bank." I guess we know
> what he prefers.
I have noticed that strong chess programs tend
to value the Bishops higher than Knights, even
if the difference is not made apparent until much
later in a game, after considerable work to give
the Bishops their rightful sway.
Closed positions often arise where the best a
Knight can do is occupy a square where the
opponent's Bishop can trade for it at will; this is
not exactly a stellar feat. What is true is that
in some positions, a "bad" Bishop is powerless
against a well-positioned Knight, but this involves
the handling of the pawns, which is what made
the Bishop so "bad" in the first place.
Starting at move one, unless the position is
locked up by stylistically-challenged humans,
the Bishop tends to be more valuable due to
its much longer range, combined with the
ability to pin. If the pawns are handled
properly, holes will not be created and Knights
will at best occupy an advanced square where
they temp the opponent to trade a "good"
Bishop, or an equal Knight. Pawns require
fluidity in order to keep the beasts at bay, and
to optimize the power of the Bishops. Weak
players tend to immobilize their own pawns,
making it tougher to show the true power of
the superior piece (the Bishop).
In general, a player who readily trades his
Bishops for Knights as though they were of
dead-equal value, will find himself losing a lot
in the endgame, and scratching his head as
to where exactly he went wrong.
-- help bot
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Date: 10 Jan 2008 12:46:35
From:
Subject: Re: Do you trade Knights for Bishops ?
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On Jan 10, 2:26=A0pm, Taylor Kingston <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jan 10, 2:10=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
> > And Taylor ...... seriously ....... Popes and Bishops are simply not
> > the same thing.
>
> =A0 I would have hoped this would be taken with a better sense of humor.
>
I was totally kidding around Taylor.
And yes ..... my ecclesiastical history is a little rusty ; )
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Date: 10 Jan 2008 13:24:45
From: Ken Blake
Subject: Re: Do you trade Knights for Bishops ?
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On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:39:28 -0800, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
>
> If you have the opportunity to trade a knight for a bishop do you
> take it ??
You want a general answer, but there is none. It depends entirely on
the individual situation.
The question is no different from one like "should White trade his
King pawn for Black's Queen pawn?" There too, it depends on the
specific position.
--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
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Date: 10 Jan 2008 11:26:58
From: Taylor Kingston
Subject: Re: Do you trade Knights for Bishops ?
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On Jan 10, 2:10=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Jan 10, 1:32=A0pm, Taylor Kingston <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 10, 12:50=A0pm, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > What is a good Bishop abd What is a bad Bishop.
>
> > > How can we say this Bishop is good or Bad.
>
> > =A0 The man discussed here, who held the office of Bishop of Rome, is
> > generally considered a good bishop:
>
> > =A0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_XXIII
>
> > =A0 Others discussed here are considered bad bishops:
>
> > =A0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes
>
> And Taylor ...... seriously ....... Popes and Bishops are simply not
> the same thing.
I would have hoped this would be taken with a better sense of humor.
And I hope you are better informed on chess than you are on
ecclesiastical history. I refer you to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_of_Rome
Its opening sentence: "The Bishop of Rome is the bishop of the Holy
See, more often referred to as the Pope."
Many Popes have also been bishops before being elected Pope. For
example, Roncalli, later John XXIII, was titular bishop of Areopolis.
Therefore, on several counts, the same person can be both a Bishop and
a Pope, either serially or simultaneously.
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Date: 10 Jan 2008 11:10:26
From:
Subject: Re: Do you trade Knights for Bishops ?
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On Jan 10, 1:32=A0pm, Taylor Kingston <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jan 10, 12:50=A0pm, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > What is a good Bishop abd What is a bad Bishop.
>
> > How can we say this Bishop is good or Bad.
>
> =A0 The man discussed here, who held the office of Bishop of Rome, is
> generally considered a good bishop:
>
> =A0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_XXIII
>
> =A0 Others discussed here are considered bad bishops:
>
> =A0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes
And Taylor ...... seriously ....... Popes and Bishops are simply not
the same thing.
If you have that much time on your hands, why don't analyze some old
Kramnik-Anand games for me ;)
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Date: 10 Jan 2008 11:02:36
From:
Subject: Re: Do you trade Knights for Bishops ?
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On Jan 10, 12:50=A0pm, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Jan 10, 10:06=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > On Jan 10, 10:39=A0am, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
>
> > > =A0 =A0If you have the opportunity to trade a knight for a bishop do y=
ou
> > > take it ??
>
> > To answer your first question, I will almost always trade a Knight for
> > an opponents' "good" bishop and rarely trade for his/her "bad"
> > bishop ..... again depending on the position of the game.
>
> What is a good Bishop abd What is a bad Bishop.
>
> How can we say this Bishop is good or Bad.
>
> If we give 3.00 Points to knight Then Good Bishop =3D3.5 and Bad
> Bishop=3D3.0
>
> Whats your idea?
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
I just KNEW I was going to get shit from this crowd for that
statement.
These obviously aren't book or technical terms. If my pawns in the
center are predominately on White squares, then my Black Bishop is of
more use to me, as it is not getting obstructed by my own pawns. That
is what I referred to as a "good" Bishop.
Sorry, us hicks here in Ohio talk funny and use odd terms ...... tough
crowd.
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Date: 10 Jan 2008 10:32:48
From: Taylor Kingston
Subject: Re: Do you trade Knights for Bishops ?
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On Jan 10, 12:50=A0pm, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> What is a good Bishop abd What is a bad Bishop.
>
> How can we say this Bishop is good or Bad.
The man discussed here, who held the office of Bishop of Rome, is
generally considered a good bishop:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_XXIII
Others discussed here are considered bad bishops:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes
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Date: 10 Jan 2008 09:50:10
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Do you trade Knights for Bishops ?
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On Jan 10, 10:06=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Jan 10, 10:39=A0am, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
>
> > =A0 =A0If you have the opportunity to trade a knight for a bishop do you=
> > take it ??
>
> To answer your first question, I will almost always trade a Knight for
> an opponents' "good" bishop and rarely trade for his/her "bad"
> bishop ..... again depending on the position of the game.
What is a good Bishop abd What is a bad Bishop.
How can we say this Bishop is good or Bad.
If we give 3.00 Points to knight Then Good Bishop =3D3.5 and Bad
Bishop=3D3.0
Whats your idea?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 11 Jan 2008 12:38:21
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Do you trade Knights for Bishops ?
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Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> What is a good Bishop abd What is a bad Bishop.
Sanny, this is *basic* chess terminology. A bad bishop is one that is
hindered by its own pawns; a good bishop is one that is not.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Poisonous Cheese (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ brick of cheese but it'll kill you
in seconds!
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Date: 10 Jan 2008 09:06:34
From:
Subject: Re: Do you trade Knights for Bishops ?
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On Jan 10, 10:39=A0am, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> =A0 =A0If you have the opportunity to trade a knight for a bishop do you
> take it ??
>
To answer your first question, I will almost always trade a Knight for
an opponents' "good" bishop and rarely trade for his/her "bad"
bishop ..... again depending on the position of the game.
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Date: 10 Jan 2008 09:01:38
From:
Subject: Re: Do you trade Knights for Bishops ?
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On Jan 10, 10:39=A0am, [email protected] (SAT W-7) wrote:
> =A0 =A0If you have the opportunity to trade a knight for a bishop do you
> take it ??
>
> =A0 The bishop has long range power and the knight short range
> power......# of squares that they can control......
>
> =A0 For me it depends on how the game is going.
The general rules that I've come across most often in publications
are:
1.) Contingent upon the layout of the position, Knights work best in
closed positions and Bishops
work best in open positions.
2.) If there are pawns on both sides of the board, the Bishop is
better. If all the pawns are on one side,
the Knight is probably better.
3.) In a locked-pawn position, Knights are favorable.
All in all, it depends on the position and the player's style. Most
players seems to prefer Bishops in general.
I know that Bobby Fischer was pretty adamant about preferring a Knight
to a Bishop in the endgame.
John Curdo, who holds the record for most chess tournament wins, was
famous for saying "Two bishops is money in the bank." I guess we know
what he prefers.
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Date: 11 Jan 2008 12:32:32
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Do you trade Knights for Bishops ?
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<[email protected] > wrote:
> John Curdo, who holds the record for most chess tournament wins, was
> famous for saying "Two bishops is money in the bank." I guess we
> know what he prefers.
Er... blackmailing the clergy? ;-)
Dave.
--
David Richerby Revolting Sushi (TM): it's like a raw
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ fish but it'll turn your stomach!
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