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Date: 13 Sep 2007 00:40:19
From: samsloan
Subject: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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[quote="tsawmiller"][quote="hmb"]
An apology to Steve from Tim would go a long way towards increasing
good will and respect, or making sure it doesn't diminish. The
biggest problems here seem to occur when someone takes himself (or
more infrequently, herself) too seriously.
Hal Bogner [/quote]
Hmmm, an apology for performing one's duty as he sees fit... An
apology for politely requesting an action via PM? How about an
apology for inconsiderate PM responses? How about an apology for
ignoring a moderator's polite request?
Reasonable people, with common sense, can read something and come to
differing interpretations. These differences can be debated, and a
concensus formed. These are reasonable actions and outcomes. What
is not reasonable is disparaging people because of their opinions.
Tim Sawmiller [/quote]
What is not reasonable is you coming in as a new moderator and on the
first day turning everything upside down by ruling that URLs to
websites cannot be posted. This forum has been in existence for about
three years and has had many moderators, but before this nobody had
ever suggested such a rule.
Now, when postings by a widely divergent number of posters who do not
have a history of agreeing with each other on other subjects object
that our postings had been pulled, you accuse us all of being
"impolite".
Meanwhile, all the other present and former moderators disagree with
your actions. There is a major revolution going on now.
It so happens that at least one member of the FOC has gone away on
vacation for a week or two and for that reason your actions cannot be
overruled and the posts restored.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 18 Sep 2007 11:23:53
From: Rob
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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On Sep 16, 7:08 am, samsloan <samhsl...@gmail.com > wrote:
> [quote="tanstaafl"][quote="samsloan"]... I did not bring it over to
> the Polgar issues. Tanstaafl a/k/a Moderator6 did when he wrote that
> he had deleted the entire thread in which I and others said that
> Polgar had not won the Woman's World Championship four times because,
> according to tanstaafl, it was unethical for me to say that.
> ...
> Sam Sloan[/quote]
> This is a false statement. I didn't accuse Mr. Sloan of unethical
> conduct for [b]that[/b] action and that was not the reason the thread
> was pulled.
>
> Since the reasons are very simple and explained adequately in the
> other thread, I see no reason to repeat the material here.[/quote]
>
> You are playing with words. You never did tell me or the others who
> had posted to that thread exactly why the entire thread was removed.
> There were as I recall about 100 posts to that thread by a wide
> variety of posters pro and con and you deleted all of them.
>
> Sam Sloan
Most are removed because of comments made by Mohamed Sloan:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIDE_CHESS/message/55
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Date: 16 Sep 2007 05:08:54
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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[quote="tanstaafl"][quote="samsloan"]... I did not bring it over to
the Polgar issues. Tanstaafl a/k/a Moderator6 did when he wrote that
he had deleted the entire thread in which I and others said that
Polgar had not won the Woman's World Championship four times because,
according to tanstaafl, it was unethical for me to say that.
...
Sam Sloan[/quote]
This is a false statement. I didn't accuse Mr. Sloan of unethical
conduct for [b]that[/b] action and that was not the reason the thread
was pulled.
Since the reasons are very simple and explained adequately in the
other thread, I see no reason to repeat the material here.[/quote]
You are playing with words. You never did tell me or the others who
had posted to that thread exactly why the entire thread was removed.
There were as I recall about 100 posts to that thread by a wide
variety of posters pro and con and you deleted all of them.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 15 Sep 2007 20:17:18
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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[quote="rfeditor"][quote="samsloan"]Tim Sawmiller a/k/a Moderator7 has
just locked a thread entitled "Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering
storm... " that was specifically started (not be me) to criticize him.
I realize that Mr. Sawmiller does not like being criticized but the
way to deal with it is not to simply lock threads in which he is being
criticized. Rather he should simply resign.
Sam Sloan[/quote]
You had long since hijacked the thread to pursue your vendetta against
Susan Polgar. Perhaps we should have a straw poll on whether he should
resign or you should receive a level 3 sanction. I know which way I'd
bet.[/quote]
I did not bring it over to the Polgar issues. Tanstaafl a/k/a
Moderator6 did when he wrote that he had deleted the entire thread in
which I and others said that Polgar had not won the Woman's World
Championship four times because, according to tanstaafl, it was
unethical for me to say that.
The way it finally ended was Paul Truong posted a lengthy screed in
which he called for moderator intervention (as he always does when
things are not going well for him) and sure enough he got his wish as
my response was deleted whereas his attack was allowed to stand.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 15 Sep 2007 20:06:59
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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On Sep 15, 8:55 pm, samsloan <samhsl...@gmail.com > wrote:
> In addition, the President of Texas Tech University made similar
> claims that Polgar had won the woman's world championship four times
> and although Susan was present she did not correct him.
>
> http://www.depts.ttu.edu/communications/news/stories/videos/susan-pol...
>
> Sam Sloan
While on the subject of Grandmaster Polgar's not correcting false
statements, remember this one from 2005?:
Strangely enough, the "First Press Release" distributed by the
Innes/Mitchell team described GM Polgar as "ranked in the top three
in the world for the last twenty years. Polgar is currently ranked
#1 in the United States." No mention that this is a woman's title and
a
ranking on a woman's list. ChessBase made the correction, of course,
but then again, they know chess. The press release was sent to
non-chessplayers, or in other words people who would not know the
truth
about Trollgar. This betrays the fine hand of Philth Innes, who has
used this method of lying before; he once claimed to be "nearly an IM"
on a Shakespeare newsgroup.
As we continue to read this interesting document, we see that Trollgar
has earned "the title of "Chess Ambassador"." A search of the
Internet shows that the title of "Chess Ambassador" was awarded to
Trollgar by herself and her male remora.
Leaving aside for now the puffery about "distance chess" nonsense
(obviously Innes has never heard of correspondence chess), we note Mr.
Innes in his biography finally admits to having a business interest in
Shahcom, despite having denied it for years here: "Synchronously with
business activities, worked with the inventor of chess broadcasting
technologies in St. Petersburg, Russia, since 1996, to promote greater
world-wide interactions and audiences for chess."
The chess may be high class, but the promotion of it is but another
sack of Philth.
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Date: 15 Sep 2007 19:46:29
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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Tim Sawmiller a/k/a Moderator7 has just locked a thread entitled "Free
speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm... " that was specifically
started (not be me) to criticize him.
I realize that Mr. Sawmiller does not like being criticized but the
way to deal with it is not to simply lock threads in which he is being
criticized. Rather he should simply resign.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 15 Sep 2007 19:26:25
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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As I predicted, the Moderators of the USCF Forum have deleted several
of my postings including the above posting. Here is what they say:
tsawmiller wrote:Dear samsloan,
Please tread carefully and stick to issues and facts. I have already
pulled two of your posts from "Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering
storm..." for violating the AUG rules regarding Being Polite and
Attacking people.
Regards,
Moderator7
My response follows:
Your general behavior is objectionable. You find it OK for people to
call me a liar when my posts are entirely accurate and then you accuse
me of being impolite and attacking people.
It is YOU who are being impolite and attacking people. That was the
point to the "gathering storm" thread.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 15 Sep 2007 18:55:23
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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In addition, the President of Texas Tech University made similar
claims that Polgar had won the woman's world championship four times
and although Susan was present she did not correct him.
http://www.depts.ttu.edu/communications/news/stories/videos/susan-polgar-graduation.php
Sam Sloan
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Date: 15 Sep 2007 18:15:25
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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Brian Mottershead on Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:22 pm #69233
rfeditor wrote: You're the one who invented the claim "4-Time
Women's World Champion." Please find a citation in which Polgar used
those words, or admit that you lied.
John Hillery
John, that simply is not true. We saw that claim in several places,
none of which had anything to do with Sam Sloan. I've seen it on the
Texas Tech web site. I've seen it on the USCF web site. And, no, I'm
not going to "prove" it by finding links. For example,
http://www.depts.ttu.edu/communications/news/stories/07-05-Polgar-institute.php
You will have to take my word for it that there are plenty more.
Brian Mottershead
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Date: 15 Sep 2007 18:10:07
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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That topic on the USCF Forum has just been Locked by Tim Sawmiller.
Remember that the topic started with debates over the practice by Mr.
Sawmiller of massively deleting postings by forum members.
Here are the last two postings by Brian Mottershead:
The FIDE documents that Rodney is talking about are the photos of the
certificates framed on the apartment wall at her father's place (or
was it somewhere else?) They were for the 1st Melody Amber Blitz and
Rapid World Women's Championships, staged in the early 1990's. The
certificates have the FIDE logo on them, and there is an illegible
signature embossed with what seems to have been a FIDE seal. Nobody
has uncovered any FIDE document which mentions these Melody Amber
tournaments and it is impossible to know what the FIDE seal on these
certificates means. Lots of tournaments call themselves the something-
or-other World Championship, so that means nothing. On the other hand,
most of them don't hand out diplomas that have the FIDE seal on them.
So who knows?
It would help if somebody could find some record of the tournaments.
The Melody Amber events were never repeated, so Polgar can claim that
she is still the Melody Amber Blitz and Rapid World Women's Champion,
I guess. In contrast, the Melody Blindfold and Rapid tournament in
Monaco, which also started the same year, has been held every year
since, and has become a classic tournament. (Nobody thinks that one is
a World Championship.)
These two Melody Amber tournaments, out of the four "World Women's
Championships" Polgar claims, seem very debatable to me. There also
are a few questions about the under-16 championship. Be all that as it
may be, and putting the best possible light on all these tournaments,
it is completely reasonable to question whether it is misleading/false
to claim "four-times World Women's Champion" when three of the four
were not what people generally consider to be *the* overall World
Women's Championship but, at best, specialized championships or youth
championships.
Rodney is entitled to his opinion on all these matters. Other people,
including Sam Sloan, are entitled to their opinions. What seems
extremely dubious to me is for Rodney to insist that his view
represents the indisputable facts and that any other view is so
absolutely false and scurrilous that it must be suppressed as an
unsubstantiated personal attack, using his powers as a moderator.
Brian Mottershead
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Date: 15 Sep 2007 17:32:05
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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[quote="ChessPromotion"]There was no Amber Women's Blitz and Rapid
World Championships. They were the FIDE Women's World Rapid and FIDE
Women's Blitz Championship, sponsored by the organizer of the Amber
tournament. The sponsor was Mr. Joop VanOosterom, a Dutch billionaire,
the same sponsor of the prestigious Melody Amber which is now called
Amber. That is the name of his daughter. Mr. VanOosterom since
suffered a major stroke and he has never recovered fully.
These were official FIDE World Championships. You may argue that these
titles may not be as prestigious as the Classical World Championship.
That is your right. But they are still FIDE World Championship titles.
To say they are not is completely false. Judit Polgar participated in
both of these events and she finished 2nd in one and 4th in the other.
Sofia Polgar also finished 2nd in one of them. Most of the strongest
females players in the world were there as can be seen in the
pictures.
The 4th event was the FIDE Girl's Under 16 Championship in 1981 in
England. All 4 trophies are being displayed at the family homes
(Budapest and Texas). How many times are we going to allow the same
false information to be posted? We have the AUG in place, please
follow it. Thank you.
I ask the moderator to put an end to this nonsense. No one has ever
disputed these facts. If he has proof that this is wrong, please put
it forward. If not, he should be severely sanctioned. Enough is
enough. This is a complete waste of everyone's time.
Thank you.
PT[/quote]
The above is by New Board Member Paul Truong, who never signs his
name. Why is it, Mr. Truong, that you never sign your name to your
posts?
If the all of the above is true, why is it that nowhere in the FIDE
Handbook or on the FIDE website does it say that Susan Polgar won
these "World Championships". Why are we expected to go to her parent's
apartment in Budapest to find the evidence that she won and still
holds these championships? Why is it that you refuse to recognize the
difference between winning the World Championship for Girls Under-16
and winning the Woman's World Championship. Don't you know the
difference between a woman and a girl?
Most significantly, Paul Truong calls for action by the moderator. He
has done that dozens of times on this forum and he has always gotten
his way, getting posts he disagrees with deleted.
That helped him win the election too. The voting members had no way to
get informed about the serious doubts as to the truth and veracity of
the claims that Mr. Truong makes about himself and his devoted wife.
Mr. Truong has never provided any verification for his claims to have
won 11 national championships. He has never even stated when and where
these national championships were held, much less provided evidence
that he won them. Similarly as to his claim to have won 120 chess
tournaments, the evidence is that Paul Truong has never won a
tournament of any kind, none whatever, except for online tournaments
where computer assistance is available and very weak tournaments
against Class C and D opponents at the Polgar Chess Center.
I suspect that Mr. Truong will prevail again, getting this entire
thread deleted so that nobody can read it and determine for themselves
where the truth of the matter lies.
Everybody had better save the postings to this thread before it is too
late.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 15 Sep 2007 16:56:31
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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Herbert Rodney Vaughn a/k/a tanstaafl a/k/a Moderator6 is clearly
overreaching his powers. Here, he has used the banned word several
times by calling people liars. Also, I understand that it is NOT TRUE
that the FOC directed him to remove my posts. Rather, Moderator6
removed my posts of his own accord.
Also, Moderator6 seems to be the only person in the whole world
besides Susan Polgar who thinks that Susan Polgar won the Woman's
World Championship four times. He uses his powers as moderator to
impose his views on the entire membership.
I think it is time to remove Vaughn a/k/a tanstaafl from being a
moderator. He is clearly unable to perform his duties impartially.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 15 Sep 2007 11:44:53
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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[quote="tanstaafl"]This is not an accurate description of either the
current rules (AUG) or the reason for pulling the post. Mr. Sloan
doesn't have to "prove" all statements and Moderators & FOC are not
"truth police". Views of the truth that are divergent from reality
are allowed, as long as the AUG is observed.
Mr. Sloan's post was pulled because he made charges of ethical
misconduct without providing "substantial proof". This wasn't just my
decision, either. I have yet to pull a post of Mr. Sloan's without
first being told by members of the FOC that the post should be pulled.
[/quote]
When a USCF official claims to have won the Woman's World Championship
four times when, in reality, they only won it once, is not that
unethical?
It certainly makes the USCF look awfully silly when you cannot even
count to one, much less four.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 15 Sep 2007 03:20:19
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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[quote="lblair"][quote="samsloan"]... the "Louis Blair Rule" provides
that one must provide "Substantial Proof" for any statement one
makes. ...[/quote]
The above is false.
Louis Blair [/quote]
I disagree. For example, I wrote that Susan Polgar has only won the
Woman's World Championship one time. She did not win it four times.
That posting was pulled by tanstaafl, Moderator6, because, he said,
that I had failed to "prove" this statement.
When I wrote that "everybody knows" that Susan Polgar won the Woman's
World Championship one time and this is common knowledge that all
chess players have, he wrote back that statements like "everybody
knows" are not acceptable and I must provide "substantial proof".
I note that my statement that Susan Polgar won the Woman's World
Championship one time has not been restored by the FOC of which you
are a member. Kindly explain why you have not restored this statement.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 15 Sep 2007 01:44:01
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: Mohamed Sloan's vanity page
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On Sep 14, 10:50 am, Larry Tapper <larry_tap...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Sep 14, 10:39 am, Rob <robmt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fide-chess/join
>
> > Link to the Sloan vanity page
>
> >http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fide_chess/join
>
> > Link to REAL Chess Discussion Group
>
> Rob,
>
> What's the point of repeating "Mohamed Sloan" over and over?
>
> I suppose you think this is some kind of insult.
I think he wants to underline the 'fact' that Sam Sloan's legal name
is not Sam Sloan. Mr. Mitchell is the only person aware of this
'fact', and the only person who seems to care about it.
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Date: 14 Sep 2007 19:10:43
From: Rob
Subject: Re: Mohamed Sloan's vanity page
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On Sep 14, 10:50 am, Larry Tapper <larry_tap...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Sep 14, 10:39 am, Rob <robmt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fide-chess/join
>
> > Link to the Sloan vanity page
>
> >http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fide_chess/join
>
> > Link to REAL Chess Discussion Group
>
> Rob,
>
> What's the point of repeating "Mohamed Sloan" over and over?
>
> I suppose you think this is some kind of insult.
>
> Larry T.
That is his REAL legal name. I strive to be accurate. :-)
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Date: 14 Sep 2007 08:50:57
From: Larry Tapper
Subject: Re: Mohamed Sloan's vanity page
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On Sep 14, 10:39 am, Rob <robmt...@gmail.com > wrote:
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fide-chess/join
>
> Link to the Sloan vanity page
>
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fide_chess/join
>
> Link to REAL Chess Discussion Group
Rob,
What's the point of repeating "Mohamed Sloan" over and over?
I suppose you think this is some kind of insult.
Larry T.
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Date: 14 Sep 2007 14:39:25
From: Rob
Subject: Mohamed Sloan's vanity page
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http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fide-chess/join
Link to the Sloan vanity page
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fide_chess/join
Link to REAL Chess Discussion Group
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Date: 14 Sep 2007 07:06:57
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Sam Sloan makes no sense again
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On Sep 14, 9:18 am, "Ray Gordon, creator of the pivot"
<raygor...@seductive.com > wrote:
> On 12 Sep, 19:48, samsloan <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Saying that I cannot cite anything posted on her website is absurd and
> > ridiculous.
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> Why do you visit her website if you said that it's horrible? Didn't
> you say that she's uneducated and ignorant? So why would you want to
> visit her site or read anything she writes?
She is our Great Leader, Great Supreme Commender now. We must follow
the lead of Chairman Polgar.
Sam Sloan
Obedient Servant
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Date: 14 Sep 2007 06:18:09
From: Ray Gordon, creator of the pivot
Subject: Sam Sloan makes no sense again
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On 12 Sep, 19:48, samsloan <samhsl...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Saying that I cannot cite anything posted on her website is absurd and
> ridiculous.
>
> Sam Sloan
Why do you visit her website if you said that it's horrible? Didn't
you say that she's uneducated and ignorant? So why would you want to
visit her site or read anything she writes?
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Date: 13 Sep 2007 14:31:50
From: Rob
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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To paraphrase Winnie Churchill: "In politics truth is so precious
that
she should always be attended by a bodygard of lies
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Date: 13 Sep 2007 00:48:29
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Free speech, bad laws, and a gathering storm...
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There you go. Now which of these were inconsiderate when taken with
the PM that prompted each (which I have not published).
Steve TN
Most of them.
Tim Sawmiller
You refused to wait for the consensus of the FOC, in face of opposite
opinions from your fellow moderators and opposition from just about
everyone with an opinion on this topic, and instead began
inappropriate censorship of on topic discussion.
Steve TN
If moderators wait for a consensus on every issue, then what is the
point of having them?
Tim Sawmiller
However, a decent person will change their actions when confronted
with overwhelming evidence that they should. You haven't, and
further, you have imposed your will despite being shown that your
interpretation has no basis.
Steve TN
So now you are calling me "indecent"? I certainly hope not.
As for having a basis for these actions, I offer this: Within the
last week, a post by Mr. S. Sloan was pulled (not by me) because it
contained a URL to a page that had details only about a chess book.
(I think the reason being that it was now available in paperback).
That was a chess related item, and Mr. Sloan did not recommend buying
it. He just announced it's availability. How is that any different?
I took that as a precedent, along with a close reading of the AUG.
Agree or disagree, there is a basis for that interpretation.
Edit: I see you managed to slip in those pesky URLs again, by quoting
my PMs to you. Would you mind X'ing those out please?
2nd Edit: Point taken.
Tim Sawmiller
What you really did was tell me to remove a link to Susan Polgar's
website because Susan Polgar has commercial ads for her chess books.
As you probably know, I am not in any way financially involved with
Susan Polgar.
Saying that I cannot cite anything posted on her website is absurd and
ridiculous.
Sam Sloan
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