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Main
Date: 23 May 2008 23:59:47
From: Sanny
Subject: GetClub Easy Level vs Rybka
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Yesterday again GetClub game was improved. Now it will play with
better strategy.
I played a game against Rybka. Rybka took 40 moves to win the Easy
Level. And it was only because of Tactics that Rybka win.
Earlier Rybka used to get a Queen up rill end game comes. But now
Rybka was just a Bishop up when end game came. Later it got the Queen
and win.
Rybka sacrificed its pawn and after 14 ply got a knight extra by
piinning GetClub knight.
It was a wonderful game.
Game Played between sanjay11 and easy at GetClub.com
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Rybka : (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM20245&game=Chess
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White -- Black
(Rybka ) -- (easy)
1. d2-d4{22} Ng8-f6{0}
2. c2-c4{20} e7-e6{0}
3. Nb1-c3{180} Bf8-b4{0}
4. Qd1-c2{10} d7-d5{0}
5. c4-d5{18} Qd8-d5{24}
6. Ng1-f3{14} Nf6-e4{32}
7. e2-e3{16} b7-b6{32}
8. Bf1-d3{14} f7-f5{40}
9. Ke1-g1{14} Bb4-c3{38}
10. b2-c3{10} Bc8-b7{34}
11. c3-c4{14} Qd5-d6{68}
12. c4-c5{18} b6-c5{34}
13. d4-c5{18} Ne4-c5{20}
14. Bc1-a3{20} Nb8-d7{28}
15. Bd3-b5{18} c7-c6{26}
16. Bb5-e2{28} Ke8-g8{66}
17. Ra1-c1{14} Ra8-d8{30}
18. Ba3-c5{18} Nd7-c5{38}
19. Qc2-c5{12} Qd6-c5{28}
20. Rc1-c5{18} Rd8-d5{22}
21. Rf1-c1{16} Kg8-h8{24}
22. Nf3-g5{12} Rf8-f6{34}
23. Rc5-d5{12} e6-d5{22}
24. Rc1-b1{16} h7-h6{32}
25. Rb1-b7{10} h6-g5{40}
26. Rb7-a7{12} Kh8-h7{24}
27. a2-a4{14} f5-f4{36}
28. a4-a5{10} f4-e3{54}
29. f2-e3{14} Rf6-e6{28}
30. Be2-d3{14} Kh7-h6{26}
31. Ra7-a8{26} g7-g6{40}
32. a5-a6{14} Re6-e7{30}
33. a6-a7{14} Re7-h7{20}
34. Bd3-a6{16} g5-g4{30}
35. Ba6-b7{16} g4-g3{80}
36. h2-g3{14} d5-d4{34}
37. Ra8-b8{12} Rh7-b7{30}
38. Rb8-b7{14} d4-e3{60}
39. Qa7-a8{Q}{14} e3-e2{38}
40. Qa8-f8{14} Kh6-g5{0}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka : (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM20245&game=Chess
Yes, GetClub made a few tactical mistakes but I think there were no
strategical mistakes. Rybka was having hard time in getting a plus
position.
GetClub developed its pieces and was attacking Rybka having white
pieces.
But through long calculations Rybka sacrificed its pawn and then
pinned the Easy levels knight.
Do you see any mistake in GetClubs game. Please note it is just Easy
Level which played so good. So now Normal & Master Level are going to
play much stronger games.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Game with Help Bot.
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Date: 28 May 2008 19:30:40
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Game with Help Bot.
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On May 28, 8:00 am, Martin Brown <
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Date: 28 May 2008 10:23:35
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Game with Help Bot.
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> To be fair I think the program has improved. It very nearly had you in
> this game (and if it had been properly tactically aware at move 30 it
> should have won). That is a big change from slowly but inexorably
> losing (which was most often the case in earlier incarnations).
Here is another game between Help Bot and Normal Level.
I do not understand why in 18th move Normal Level do not take the Rook
with Bishop instead it took a Pawn?
Game Played between help bot and normal at GetClub.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
normal: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM20335&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White -- Black
(normal) -- (help bot)
1. e2-e4{0} c7-c5{12}
2. Ng1-f3{0} Ng8-f6{8}
3. e4-e5{164} Nf6-d5{10}
4. Nb1-c3{198} Nd5-c3{38}
5. d2-c3{214} g7-g6{62}
6. Bf1-c4{80} Nb8-c6{26}
7. Bc1-f4{84} Bf8-g7{24}
8. Qd1-d3{126} Ke8-g8{28}
9. Ke1-g1{108} a7-a6{78}
10. Rf1-d1{104} b7-b6{126}
11. a2-a3{340} Ra8-a7{90}
12. Ra1-b1{304} Qd8-c7{108}
13. Qd3-e4{172} e7-e6{110}
14. Rd1-d6{136} Nc6-e7{158}
15. Nf3-h4{156} b6-b5{88}
16. Bc4-b3{134} c5-c4{174}
17. Bf4-e3{92} c4-b3{64}
18. c2-b3{84} Ra7-b7{100} {It should have taken the Rook with Bishop.}
19. Rb1-d1{88} Ne7-c6{120}
20. Nh4-f3{86} Nc6-e7{176}
21. g2-g4{110} Rb7-b8{154}
22. Nf3-g5{126} h7-h6{100}
23. Ng5-f3{106} Bc8-b7{42}
24. Qe4-f4{80} Ne7-d5{198}
25. Rd1-d5{110} Bb7-d5{74}
26. Kg1-f1{96} Bd5-f3{198}
27. Qf4-f3{190} Bg7-e5{78}
28. Rd6-a6{112} Be5-g7{80}
29. Be3-f4{108} Qc7-b7{46}
30. Qf3-b7{134} Rb8-b7{10}
31. Bf4-d6{144} Rf8-c8{32}
32. Kf1-g1{158} Kg8-h7{58}
33. Bd6-f4{122} Rc8-c6{38}
34. Ra6-a8{100} f7-f5{48}
35. g4-f5{118} g6-f5{12}
36. Ra8-e8{106} Kh7-g6{62}
37. h2-h3{180} Kg6-f7{20}
38. Re8-d8{158} e6-e5{40}
39. Bf4-e3{142} Bg7-f6{52}
40. Rd8-a8{120} Bf6-g5{54}
41. Kg1-g2{102} f5-f4{22}
42. Ra8-a7{134} f4-e3{76}
43. Ra7-b7{104} e3-e2{28}
44. f2-f4{92} Qe2-e1{Q}{32}
45. f4-g5{146} Rc6-g6{36}
46. Rb7-d7{108} Kf7-e6{10}
47. h3-h4{110} Ke6-d7{14}
48. b3-b4{210} Kd7-e6{34}
49. Kg2-f3{234} Ke6-f5{20}
50. Kf3-g2{16}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
normal: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM20335&game=Chess
Why Normal Level took Knight giving its Rook in 24th move?
It looks like Normal Level is doing a lot of calculation mistakes.
What do you think?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Game with Help Bot.
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Date: 27 May 2008 10:00:23
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Game with Help Bot.
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> =A0 Just as I had expected, in the endgame it is
> no-contest; my vastly superior understanding
> overwhelmed the program (although I missed
> a simple tactical shot earlier!).
Yes you play better than Advance Level and Master Level was playing
with the strength of Advance Level. So I think now you should try the
Advance Level as you qualified the Master Level.
Lets see if Advance level can bend you or not.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 27 May 2008 02:44:01
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Game with Help Bot.
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On May 26, 5:01 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Help Bot played with Master level and win the game in 64 moves.
>
> Master Level was white but due to some error do not play the opening
> moves. Instead it played Nc3 as the forst move by Calculating. Still
> it gave good opposition to Help Bot.
>
> Help Bot 2 days back beat Advance Level but now the game has improved
> So It was difficult for him to get a quick win and he has to play till
> 64 moves to get a win.
Against computers it is not a good idea to play
for a "quick win". In fact, I made no attempt to
try and win *quickly*, apart from my usual dread
of the never-ending battle in which I die of old age
in mid-game.
> GetClub play a much strong game and I hope now Help Bot will play with
> Advance Level which will be very difficult for him to win as the game
> is much improved now.
It is interesting how the program can be "improved"
dramatically so many, many, many, many times.
> Game Played between help bot and master at GetClub.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> help bot: (Black)
> master: (White)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM20299&game=Chess
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> White -- Black
> (master) -- (help bot)
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM20299&game=Chess
>
> What were the moves by GetClub that were not good and could have been
> avoided.
I ran this through a computer analysis, and if we
ignore the smaller things and try to focus on just
the really big mistakes...
Nothing much happened in the first ten moves,
during which White had a small edge.
Move 11. g4 turned things around, and now
Black got an advantage due to White's exposed
King. The computer did not like my moves--
...g6, ...Kf8, and has it *level* at move 15.
Obviously, p-f5 threw away a pawn, and Black
has the advantage as a result-- unless White
can whip up an attack on the Black King.
Again, the computer rejected my King
maneuver back to the center in favor of sharp
tactics involving the sacrifice of pawns; now
we are back to about even.
Now, I missed a nice, *simple* tactical shot:
28. ... Kd7?? 29. Rxa6 Qxa6 30. Nxf5!, and
White is on top. But instead, the Master level
played 30. Rd3-- missing an obvious tactic.
From that point forward, White gained no
counterattack on the Black King and thus was
doomed to lose. My advantage grew and grew,
until at last it was so large that even when I
failed to see that White had advanced his g-
pawn, it made no real difference! I mistakenly
assumed that White must have moved his
King, since I detected no significant change in
position, but in fact White had played p-g6!
Just as I had expected, in the endgame it is
no-contest; my vastly superior understanding
overwhelmed the program (although I missed
a simple tactical shot earlier!).
-- help bot
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Game with Help Bot.
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Date: 26 May 2008 02:01:20
From: Sanny
Subject: Game with Help Bot.
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Help Bot played with Master level and win the game in 64 moves.
Master Level was white but due to some error do not play the opening
moves. Instead it played Nc3 as the forst move by Calculating. Still
it gave good opposition to Help Bot.
Help Bot 2 days back beat Advance Level but now the game has improved
So It was difficult for him to get a quick win and he has to play till
64 moves to get a win.
GetClub play a much strong game and I hope now Help Bot will play with
Advance Level which will be very difficult for him to win as the game
is much improved now.
Game Played between help bot and master at GetClub.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
master: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM20299&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White -- Black
(master) -- (help bot)
1. Nb1-c3{370} d7-d5{10}
2. d2-d4{518} Bc8-f5{18}
3. Bc1-f4{402} e7-e6{16}
4. e2-e3{342} Ng8-f6{18}
5. Bf1-d3{426} Bf5-g6{52}
6. Ng1-f3{722} a7-a6{130}
7. Nf3-e5{502} Bg6-d3{22}
8. Qd1-d3{452} Nb8-d7{46}
9. Ke1-g1{632} Nd7-e5{66}
10. d4-e5{366} Nf6-h5{64}
11. g2-g4{370} Nh5-f4{52}
12. e3-f4{640} h7-h5{32}
13. g4-g5{442} g7-g6{16}
14. Rf1-d1{600} Bf8-e7{126}
15. Ra1-b1{336} Ke8-f8{148}
16. b2-b4{344} b7-b5{64}
17. Rb1-b2{458} Kf8-g7{38}
18. Qd3-d4{644} c7-c6{100}
19. f4-f5{466} g6-f5{86}
20. h2-h4{410} a6-a5{78}
21. a2-a3{392} a5-b4{96}
22. a3-b4{588} Ra8-a6{84}
23. Rb2-b3{440} Qd8-a8{36}
24. Nc3-e2{586} Ra6-a2{72}
25. Qd4-c3{414} Kg7-f8{208}
26. Ne2-d4{474} Ra2-a6{42}
27. Rb3-b1{766} Kf8-e8{30}
28. Rb1-a1{392} Ke8-d7{78}
29. Ra1-a6{392} Qa8-a6{6}
30. Rd1-d3{414} Rh8-c8{92}
31. Qc3-b2{562} Rc8-a8{64}
32. Kg1-h2{352} Qa6-a2{82}
33. Qb2-c1{506} Qa2-a1{86}
34. Qc1-a1{448} Ra8-a1{16}
35. c2-c3{370} Ra1-a3{74}
36. Kh2-g3{550} Be7-d8{176}
37. f2-f3{374} Bd8-c7{60}
38. f3-f4{434} Bc7-b6{46}
39. Nd4-c2{348} Ra3-a2{60}
40. Nc2-e3{410} Bb6-e3{122}
41. Rd3-e3{550} c6-c5{56}
42. b4-c5{666} Kd7-c6{84}
43. Kg3-f3{414} Kc6-c5{38}
44. Re3-d3{742} Kc5-c4{56}
45. Rd3-d1{450} Ra2-a3{66}
46. Rd1-d4{356} Kc4-c3{38}
47. Rd4-d1{486} b5-b4{88}
48. Kf3-e2{682} Ra3-a2{40}
49. Ke2-e3{612} b4-b3{30}
50. Rd1-d3{404} Kc3-c4{82}
51. Rd3-d4{430} Kc4-c5{44}
52. Rd4-d1{380} b3-b2{416}
53. Rd1-b1{400} Kc5-c4{42}
54. g5-g6{444} Kc4-c3{42}
55. g6-g7{424} Ra2-a8{52}
56. Rb1-f1{402} Ra8-g8{20}
57. Ke3-f2{536} Kc3-c2{22}
58. Kf2-f3{430} Qb2-b1{Q}{24}
59. Rf1-b1{342} Kc2-b1{10}
60. Kf3-f2{484} Kb1-c2{26}
61. Kf2-g2{478} d5-d4{78}
62. Kg2-g3{598} d4-d3{92}
63. Kg3-g2{324} d3-d2{12}
64. Kg2-h2{4}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
master: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM20299&game=Chess
What were the moves by GetClub that were not good and could have been
avoided.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 24 May 2008 02:36:51
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub Easy Level vs Rybka
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> =A0 It is difficult to imagine what sort of handicap
> would be appropriate here; ifGetClub'sEasy
> level thinks an average of, say, one minute per
> move, then Rybka is likely to overwhelm it by
> thinking for only seconds. =A0A more level
GetClub Easy Level thinks for 30 seconds and Rybka was thinking for 8
seconds / move.
Easy Level was thinking 4 times more than Rybka.
I think Rybka at 8 sec/move plays as good as Master Level. which makes
a move in 5 min / move. So Rybka is 40 times Stronger than GetClub
playing Strength.
Rybka thinks in 1 second what GetClub thinks in 40 seconds.
Have a game with Master Level and see if you find the improvement or
not.
Now I think Master Level will play as good game as Advance Level
played yesterday. As today the game performance was increased 3-4
times than it was earlier.
So now Master Level will play the same moves that Advancve level would
play.
And it would be very difficult for you to win the Advance level now as
it will not allow you to form a Pawn Wall as you did in the last game.
However you may score well against the Master Level. So I suggest you
first play with Master Level and if you win the game then play with
Advance Level.
I am very happy to see a game improvement of 3-4 times in a single day
because of your suggestions. Still GetClub needs 40 times improvements
to get equal to Rybka.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 24 May 2008 00:52:56
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub Easy Level vs Rybka
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On May 24, 2:59 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Yesterday again GetClub game was improved. Now it will play with
> better strategy.
>
> I played a game against Rybka. Rybka took 40 moves to win the Easy
> Level. And it was only because of Tactics that Rybka win.
>
> Earlier Rybka used to get a Queen up rill end game comes. But now
> Rybka was just a Bishop up when end game came. Later it got the Queen
> and win.
>
> Rybka sacrificed its pawn and after 14 ply got a knight extra by
> piinning GetClub knight.
>
> It was a wonderful game.
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM20245&game=Chess
>
> Yes, GetClub made a few tactical mistakes but I think there were no
> strategical mistakes. Rybka was having hard time in getting a plus
> position.
In reality, Rybka seems to have considered the
practically forced exchange of Bishop for Knight
(on c3) to be a nice advantage in and of itself.
> GetClub developed its pieces and was attacking Rybka having white
> pieces.
Not really. The "attack" on the Knight at c3 was
easily defended. Even the hostile takeover of the e4
square came at a very high price: the weakening
move ...p-f5.
> But through long calculations Rybka sacrificed its pawn and then
> pinned the Easy levels knight.
> Do you see any mistake in GetClubs game. Please note it is just Easy
> Level which played so good. So now Normal & Master Level are going to
> play much stronger games.
The program -- once again -- neglected normal
development, especially castling, in favor of
moving the same pieces over and over, thinking
it was attacking when in reality, the "attack" was
/vacuous/.
Since you seem to believe that lasting for many
moves is a kind of moral victory (been there, done
that!), I would suggest replacing the ...p-d5 idea
with a more Queen's Indian style of defense, in
which Black combines ...p-d6 and ...p-b6 with a
Queen's Bishop fianchetto. The King's Bishop
can simply be developed to e7 and there should
be no difficulties in getting all the pieces out.
Note that it is only natural that a premature
attack by Black is effectively repelled, since
White has the first move.
It is difficult to imagine what sort of handicap
would be appropriate here; if GetClub's Easy
level thinks an average of, say, one minute per
move, then Rybka is likely to overwhelm it by
thinking for only seconds. A more level
contest might be removing Rybka's QR, and
then allowing it to think for just as long as the
GetClub program; this requires tweaking the
contempt factor properly, so Rybka will not
play for a repetition or other draw before a
real contest has ensued.
-- help bot
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