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Date: 13 Aug 2008 15:21:22
From: Chess One
Subject: Imaginary chess museum and library
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The contents, please. To begin I think we should stock it with
Alekhine's elusive unpublished last manuscript, his Estoril Diary,
[fragment, some wine/blood stains]
4 new piece designs by Marcel Duchamp, all hand-carved wood, and all so much
better than the awful Englishman Staunton's.
A treatise on the first Anglo Saxon chess sets by Borges, which oddly
features two types of bishop.
The remaindered and very rare: George Bush with the Black Pieces.
An inlaid table, [black rhino, camel] Persian, 12th century BC, with incised
64 squared grid, precious stones on intersections, [thought to have been
Hammerabi's] inscribed Plinth, black stone illustrate his 64 greatest games.
Phil Innes
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Date: 15 Aug 2008 11:11:06
From: William Hyde
Subject: Re: Imaginary chess museum and library
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On Aug 14, 4:26 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "William Hyde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:e0d701e9-dac7-4a0c-9646-a87f3f8a9401@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> You bibliophiles want no objects?
Sure I do, but I imposed a limit above and for me books rate
far more highly.
The board and set on which the Cochrane-Staunton games
were played would be an obvious museum artifact, for example,
but the complete games (IIRC we are missing most of them)
would tell us a lot about the development of Staunton, both in
style and in strength.
> The most sinistre library was uncovered by the 101st airborne in a salt-mine
> near Berchtesgaden
Stalin's library would be more interesting. He annotated the books
as he read them. I've never heard that there were any works on
chess in it, though.
-
> I have Taimanov's book which I think is insufficient as it is not in
> English, not complete Politburo record, just his KBG file. Did you ever read
> Gulko's expose?
Yes, you sent me this some years ago.
> Anyway, back to the top: if you could only have one of your list, which?
That depends on whose games we have more of. I'd go with Von Der
Lasa as I think we are missing most of his games. I could be wrong
about that, though, in which case Philidor's games would be the
choice.
But
> please also pick a phantasy object too! [Alekhine's Parrot is already
> taken.]
I'm tempted to say the cow-pat on which Mason slept the night
before thrashing Janowski, but that would perhaps be in bad
taste. The pistols Walter John and Maroczy wanted to use in their
duels with Nimzowitsch? But they might have wanted to use
swords, history is not clear on this. I'm not too good with objects.
Well, the Turk then, the version Poe wrote about so we have both
chess and literary significance. An unoriginal choice, but definitely
of historic interest.
William Hyde
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Date: 15 Aug 2008 16:16:12
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Imaginary chess museum and library
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"William Hyde" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:eefda132-bf8b-4c83-aaa4-ac224b40080a@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 14, 4:26 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "William Hyde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:e0d701e9-dac7-4a0c-9646-a87f3f8a9401@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
>>
>> You bibliophiles want no objects?
>
> Sure I do, but I imposed a limit above and for me books rate
> far more highly.
>
> The board and set on which the Cochrane-Staunton games
> were played would be an obvious museum artifact, for example,
> but the complete games (IIRC we are missing most of them)
> would tell us a lot about the development of Staunton, both in
> style and in strength.
Have asked of those who would know. I made this primary subject, but
included entire message. Phil
>> The most sinistre library was uncovered by the 101st airborne in a
>> salt-mine
>> near Berchtesgaden
>
> Stalin's library would be more interesting. He annotated the books
> as he read them. I've never heard that there were any works on
> chess in it, though.
>
> -
>> I have Taimanov's book which I think is insufficient as it is not in
>> English, not complete Politburo record, just his KBG file. Did you ever
>> read
>> Gulko's expose?
>
> Yes, you sent me this some years ago.
>
>> Anyway, back to the top: if you could only have one of your list, which?
>
> That depends on whose games we have more of. I'd go with Von Der
> Lasa as I think we are missing most of his games. I could be wrong
> about that, though, in which case Philidor's games would be the
> choice.
>
> But
>> please also pick a phantasy object too! [Alekhine's Parrot is already
>> taken.]
>
> I'm tempted to say the cow-pat on which Mason slept the night
> before thrashing Janowski, but that would perhaps be in bad
> taste. The pistols Walter John and Maroczy wanted to use in their
> duels with Nimzowitsch? But they might have wanted to use
> swords, history is not clear on this. I'm not too good with objects.
>
> Well, the Turk then, the version Poe wrote about so we have both
> chess and literary significance. An unoriginal choice, but definitely
> of historic interest.
>
> William Hyde
>
>
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Date: 14 Aug 2008 12:59:23
From: William Hyde
Subject: Re: Imaginary chess museum and library
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On Aug 13, 4:27 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> Since this is an imaginary museum, I would like it also to display
> the original scoresheets from the following World Championship matches
> that should have been:
I happen to have most of these, so:
>
> Steinitz-Tarrasch 1890
A tie. Tarrasch wins the rematch, only to lose his title to
Lasker.
> Lasker-Pillsbury 1898
Lasker wins. It's his toughest title defense.
> Lasker-Rubinstein 1914
Rubinstein can't handle the pressure, wins several brilliant
games but loses heavily.
> Alekhine-Capablanca rematch 1931
Alekhine wins in a close match. Lucky for him the match wasn't in 36,
when Capa is playing better.
Note, there is no rematch clause in the 1950s in this time
line.
> Botvinnik-Reshevsky any time between 1946 and 1956
Botvinnik wins a hard-fought match. Opinion in the west is divided as
to whether he won by cheating or won by better preparation. The idea
that Botvinnik might be the better player is dismissed as absurd.
> Botvinnik-Keres 1952
Botvinnik wins a hard-fought match. Opinion in the west is divided as
to whether he won by cheating or won by better preparation. The idea
that Botvinnik might be the better player is dismissed as absurd.
> Botvinnik-Keres 1963
Keres wins with surprising ease, gaining a small lead
early and building on it in a match with many draws.
Outraged western players claim Botvinnik threw the match.
Forty five years later it is a hot topic on r.g.c.m., with various
analysts "proving" that Botvinnik's play should be rated about
1100.
> Fischer-Karpov 1975
In a dispute over a game adjourned for the sixth time, Fischer
withdraws while leading. His victory with the Smith-Morra gambit is
voted the best game of 1975, though. He spurns
this award on the grounds that his victory with the Winawer
is better ("I've been saving this for 15 years and it practically
refutes 1e4", he says in a press release).
William Hyde
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Date: 14 Aug 2008 12:28:07
From: William Hyde
Subject: Re: Imaginary chess museum and library
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On Aug 13, 3:21 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> The contents, please. To begin I think we should stock it with
>
[...]
This is too easy, so I will restrict myself to five items.
The complete games of Von Der Lasa.
The complete games of Philidor.
The complete games of Lewis.
Keres' diary from the world championship match-tournament.
A complete transcript of every conversation involving chess in
the USSR politburo. Possibly a shorter book than we think,
though it might obviate the need for the Keres diary. If so,
add the complete games of Deschapelles.
William Hyde
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Date: 14 Aug 2008 16:26:16
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Imaginary chess museum and library
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"William Hyde" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:e0d701e9-dac7-4a0c-9646-a87f3f8a9401@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 13, 3:21 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> The contents, please. To begin I think we should stock it with
>>
>
> [...]
>
> This is too easy, so I will restrict myself to five items.
>
> The complete games of Von Der Lasa.
>
> The complete games of Philidor.
>
> The complete games of Lewis.
>
> Keres' diary from the world championship match-tournament.
You bibliophiles want no objects? You even insist upon real books in the
imaginary library. I tell you why I started this thread Bill, and I would
like to blame Alberto Manguel for writing a superb book about book
collections, and going on for a chapter and a half about imaginary
libraries, and those which seem to be imaginary.
A tempting topic. He mentions real libraries or collections that no-one
seems to know about, such as the Doulos Evangelica housed in the oldest
serving Ocean Liner, [half a million books] plus the minescule library of
Geneyhouse in SW france in a hut of 9 square meters.
The most sinistre library was uncovered by the 101st airborne in a salt-mine
near Berchtesgaden - 1,200 bearing Hitler's personal book plate. He does not
seem to have been a chess player, and not a novel reader either, except for
Gulliver's Travels, Robinson Crusoe, Uncle Tom's Cabin and Don Quixote plus
adventure stories by Karl May. [Sooner or later I will check the LOC for
chessic interest - I wonder that Alekhine never gave him anything, via
Frank?]
On a lighter note the book contains imaginary books dreamed up by famous
persons, and naturally, many of these are Rabelaisian in spirit - Rabelais
being a noted inventor, especially in Gargantua... but I digress....
> A complete transcript of every conversation involving chess in
> the USSR politburo. Possibly a shorter book than we think,
> though it might obviate the need for the Keres diary. If so,
> add the complete games of Deschapelles.
I have Taimanov's book which I think is insufficient as it is not in
English, not complete Politburo record, just his KBG file. Did you ever read
Gulko's expose? I have that as a e-text document, and it names names.
The best Russian source for an expose is not likely to go ont he record,
pity.
Anyway, back to the top: if you could only have one of your list, which? But
please also pick a phantasy object too! [Alekhine's Parrot is already
taken.]
Cordially, Phil Innes
>
>
> William Hyde
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Date: 13 Aug 2008 14:08:30
From:
Subject: Re: Imaginary chess museum and library
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On Aug 13, 4:43=A0pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected] > wrote:
> Morphy's collection of women's shoes
>
> The telephone with which the game God-Steinitz was played
>
> Full collection of Napoleon's brilliant games
>
> The original chess set designed by Palamedes, and another original
> chess set designed independently by Sissa
>
> Fischer's removed dental fillings?
>
> The secret note in a yoghurt container
>
> The poison administered to Leonardo
>
> (I would sign this Jerry Spinrad, but I am afraid that someone would
> then conclude that I was admitting to be fictional)
Hey, if we're going along those lines, I'd like to see:
The hotel furniture Alekhine supposedly smashed up after losing an
important game to Spielmann.
A sample of the urine a drunken Alekhine supposedly deposited on the
playing room floor at various events.
A list of the hotels in which Paulino Frydman supposedly ran around
naked yelling "Fire!".
The elevator in which Salo Flohr supposedly heard it propesied that
he would finish in a 3-way tie for first in a tournament ("First
floor, second floor, third floor ...").
The knife with which Klaus Junge supposedly "was stabbed to death in
a chess club fight in 1942" (Koltanowski).
The actual computer Kramnik used in the restroom during his match
with Topalov.
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Date: 13 Aug 2008 13:51:31
From: SBD
Subject: Re: Imaginary chess museum and library
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On Aug 13, 2:21 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> 4 new piece designs by Marcel Duchamp, all hand-carved wood, and all so much
> better than the awful Englishman Staunton's.
Poor Duchamp, co-wrote one of the best chess books ever that no one
ever reads. That should go in.
We could also include:
The best opening manual of Eric Schiller.
Also the worst opening manual of Eric Schiller. (easy to save on
space this way)
Anything good written by Larry Evans after 1985. (very rare!)
FIDE Almost-an-IM Title Certificate.
An running tally of GetClub's ratings. Abbreviated version with only
ratings above 2200, 1000 pages.
An exhaustive concordance to the many FSS postings, published by the
Texas Tech University Press.
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Date: 13 Aug 2008 19:46:29
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Imaginary chess museum and library
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"SBD" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:abf5a7f3-e67c-4913-949c-c8b96bbc834a@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 13, 2:21 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> 4 new piece designs by Marcel Duchamp, all hand-carved wood, and all so
>> much
>> better than the awful Englishman Staunton's.
>
> Poor Duchamp, co-wrote one of the best chess books ever that no one
> ever reads. That should go in.
Tell us more! Did you know Ray Keene went to his place in France, looked
around - was almost too much to catalog. Is this title in English?
> We could also include:
>
> The best opening manual of Eric Schiller.
> Also the worst opening manual of Eric Schiller. (easy to save on
> space this way)
Now don't get....
> Anything good written by Larry Evans after 1985. (very rare!)
Lots of us can say that. The trouble with criticising Evans is that
everybody has read him, especially on Fischer, but how many understood a
damn thing?
> FIDE Almost-an-IM Title Certificate.
I gave it to my German girlfriend, the one with the VW and the psychology
degree. I don't regret it, and certainly wouldn't chose any of you guys
instead.
> An running tally of GetClub's ratings. Abbreviated version with only
> ratings above 2200, 1000 pages.
>
> An exhaustive concordance to the many FSS postings, published by the
> Texas Tech University Press.
There you go! Maybe you are pissed you didn't get mentioned in the suit?
Nothing like ambition!
I was hoping someone would mention Hitler's Library, which is [much of it]
the least studied collection in the Library of Congress. Many people don't
even know its there, but then again, many people don't know squat. His
personal bookmark is pretty standard, a 'ex libris' over the rampant eagle
which sits on a swastica roundel, and an oak leaf with only one nut [sorry,
English joke, circa 1942] and then his name in big gothic letters.
Its got all sorts of books in it from a dedication from Charpentier to
Monsieur Hitler, "v�g�tarien" to a 1932 treatise on Zyklon B and the uses of
prussic acid.
That's serious stuff, this thread is not - that is, for those who can tell
the difference.
Phil Innes
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Date: 13 Aug 2008 13:43:27
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Imaginary chess museum and library
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Morphy's collection of women's shoes
The telephone with which the game God-Steinitz was played
Full collection of Napoleon's brilliant games
The original chess set designed by Palamedes, and another original
chess set designed independently by Sissa
Fischer's removed dental fillings?
The secret note in a yoghurt container
The poison administered to Leonardo
(I would sign this Jerry Spinrad, but I am afraid that someone would
then conclude that I was admitting to be fictional)
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Date: 13 Aug 2008 19:35:54
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Imaginary chess museum and library
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<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Morphy's collection of women's shoes
blown! a Morphy family member wrote to me - a missunderstanding of the local
creole
> The telephone with which the game God-Steinitz was played
>
> Full collection of Napoleon's brilliant games
Personally I would like to see Bogart's. There is somewhere on line a game
he played against Lauren Bacall, I thought she did rather well. As well as
his LA games he also played lots of corres. Was arrested in North africa for
it.
> The original chess set designed by Palamedes, and another original
> chess set designed independently by Sissa
That's a challenge for someone - who can find URLs for them?
> Fischer's removed dental fillings?
>
> The secret note in a yoghurt container
>
> The poison administered to Leonardo
>
> (I would sign this Jerry Spinrad, but I am afraid that someone would
> then conclude that I was admitting to be fictional)
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Date: 13 Aug 2008 13:27:47
From:
Subject: Re: Imaginary chess museum and library
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On Aug 13, 3:21=A0pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> The contents, please. =A0To begin I think we should stock it with
>
> Alekhine's elusive unpublished last manuscript, his Estoril Diary,
> [fragment, some wine/blood stains]
I'd be interested in the original MS of the infamous Pariser Zeitung
articles, to see whether AA himself wrote them.
> 4 new piece designs by Marcel Duchamp, all hand-carved wood, and all so m=
uch
> better than the awful Englishman Staunton's.
How about a copy of his very rare book "L'Opposition et les cases
conjugu=E9es sont r=E9concil=E9es" (1932)?
> A treatise on the first Anglo Saxon chess sets by Borges, which oddly
> features two types of bishop.
You mean the wooden pieces found in the 1970s in the Thames river
bed, thought to date from the 14th century? Or is their an earlier set
found on English soil? I do not include the Isle of Lewis chessmen,
since they are thought to have been carved in Norway.
> The remaindered and very rare: George Bush with the Black Pieces.
>
> An inlaid table, [black rhino, camel] Persian, 12th century BC, with inci=
sed
> 64 squared grid, precious stones on intersections, [thought to have been
> Hammerabi's] inscribed Plinth, black stone illustrate his 64 greatest gam=
es.
Has George Bush (pere or fils?) even played 64 games of chess, let
alone any great ones?
> Phil Innes
Since this is an imaginary museum, I would like it also to display
the original scoresheets from the following World Championship matches
that should have been:
Steinitz-Tarrasch 1890
Lasker-Pillsbury 1898
Lasker-Rubinstein 1914
Alekhine-Capablanca rematch 1931
Botvinnik-Reshevsky any time between 1946 and 1956
Botvinnik-Keres 1952
Botvinnik-Keres 1963 (i.e. no collusion at Cura=E7ao 1962, and Keres
wins the Candidates Tournament)
Fischer-Karpov 1975
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Date: 13 Aug 2008 19:32:36
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Imaginary chess museum and library
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<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:3d6748d4-25b4-451d-9bf6-c2d654b7e3d0@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 13, 3:21 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> The contents, please. To begin I think we should stock it with
>
> Alekhine's elusive unpublished last manuscript, his Estoril Diary,
> [fragment, some wine/blood stains]
I'd be interested in the original MS of the infamous Pariser Zeitung
articles, to see whether AA himself wrote them.
**I don't know the source, but I heard the drafts were kept under his bed,
and his wife found them.
> 4 new piece designs by Marcel Duchamp, all hand-carved wood, and all so
> much
> better than the awful Englishman Staunton's.
How about a copy of his very rare book "L'Opposition et les cases
conjugu�es sont r�concil�es" (1932)?
**chacun tire de son c�t� est l'artisan de sa fortune, la sellette selon les
r�gles?!
> A treatise on the first Anglo Saxon chess sets by Borges, which oddly
> features two types of bishop.
You mean the wooden pieces found in the 1970s in the Thames river
bed, thought to date from the 14th century? Or is their an earlier set
found on English soil? I do not include the Isle of Lewis chessmen,
since they are thought to have been carved in Norway.
**no, the set found in the fen country served the writers imagination, and
these the thought 700 years older, or OLODDE?
For-thi thou gyffe, whils thou may lyfe,
Or alle gase that thou may gete,
Thi gaste fra Godd, thi gudes olodde,
Thi flesche foldes undir fete,
With I. and E.fulle sekire thou be,
That thynee ececuturs
Of the ne wille rekke, bot shikk and skekke
Fulle baldely in thi boures.
//MS Lincoln, Q. i. 17 f. 213.
nb: A. Sax. Chese, to choose, it occurs specifically in relation to chess,
chess board in
"Even til the hegh bord he chese"
//Syr Gowghter, 312.
the modern spelling CHESS occurs in //Craven
Thre ches chambre
Then in Middleton, "Chessner" a chess player
The original stem~ verb incorporated into the Anglo Norman above is the A.
Sax noun, CHESTE: strife, debate, contest - see Langstoft p. 19
To fythe or to make cheste,
It thouthe tehm thanne not honeste.
//respeated by Gower in Ms Soc Antiq 134 f. 32
This later became CHESTS: chess //Nomenclature p. 293, has "The playe at
chests."
> The remaindered and very rare: George Bush with the Black Pieces.
>
> An inlaid table, [black rhino, camel] Persian, 12th century BC, with
> incised
> 64 squared grid, precious stones on intersections, [thought to have been
> Hammerabi's] inscribed Plinth, black stone illustrate his 64 greatest
> games.
Has George Bush (pere or fils?) even played 64 games of chess, let
alone any great ones?
**pardon me, I confused you. Neither Bush has aught to do with Hammerabi,
though one of them has to do with dinosaurs with saddles on. It is unclear
if the dinos played chess at all.
> Phil Innes
Since this is an imaginary museum, I would like it also to display
the original scoresheets from the following World Championship matches
that should have been:
Steinitz-Tarrasch 1890
Lasker-Pillsbury 1898
Lasker-Rubinstein 1914
**Lasker-Kasparov 1998?
Alekhine-Capablanca rematch 1931
Botvinnik-Reshevsky any time between 1946 and 1956
Botvinnik-Keres 1952
Botvinnik-Keres 1963 (i.e. no collusion at Cura�ao 1962, and Keres
wins the Candidates Tournament)
Fischer-Karpov 1975
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Date: 13 Aug 2008 13:08:27
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: Imaginary chess museum and library
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On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:21:22 -0400, "Chess One" <[email protected] >
wrote:
>The contents, please. To begin I think we should stock it with
>
>
>
>Alekhine's elusive unpublished last manuscript, his Estoril Diary,
>[fragment, some wine/blood stains]
>
>4 new piece designs by Marcel Duchamp, all hand-carved wood, and all so much
>better than the awful Englishman Staunton's.
>
>A treatise on the first Anglo Saxon chess sets by Borges, which oddly
>features two types of bishop.
>
>The remaindered and very rare: George Bush with the Black Pieces.
>
>An inlaid table, [black rhino, camel] Persian, 12th century BC, with incised
>64 squared grid, precious stones on intersections, [thought to have been
>Hammerabi's] inscribed Plinth, black stone illustrate his 64 greatest games.
>
>
>Phil Innes
Don't forget to equip the Scholar's Reading Room with bound archives
of the collected set of rgcp posts for reference and research.
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