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Date: 22 Jan 2008 15:54:28
From: Alex
Subject: Is a handshake really a big deal?
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I don't understand why you have shake hands with your opponent before you play a rated FIDE game?? Also, Topalov and Kramnik did not shake hands before their game and there was no protest. Does that mean if I play in the world open or other FIDE rated event in the USA, can I complain to the TD if my opponent refuses to shake my hand before or after the game???
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Date: 24 Jan 2008 05:22:25
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Is a handshake really a big deal?
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THIS CRAZY WORLD OF CHESS by GM Larry Evans (page 64) <I object to the FIDE handshake rule....I am not saying chess should become world-wide wrestling, but we should celebrate those incredibly talented eccentrics who are often at the top of the chess world. It is a part of our chess culture, and there is no reason to try to hide it. > -- Jerry Spinrad The PCA unveiled a Code of Conduct supposedly based on disciplinary measures in tennis and golf with fines for violations ranging up to $25,000. "Some rules raised the eyebrows and the ire of a few observers," noted Chess Life: * "Players must speak positively about all sponsors and the PCA when talking to the press or public." * "Players and members of their delegations must not slander or libel PCA officers, organizers or sponsors. Players are responsible for the actions of acknowledged members of their delegation." * "At public appearances, correct dress must be worn at all times; jacket, shirt and tie; no jeans or sneakers. This applies both to players and their delegations." These rules were cooked up by the "democratic" PCA without any input from the top players. The dress code particularly irked a chess fan in Minneapolis who sent me a copy of an indignant letter he wrote to the editor of Chess Life: "Chess is changing, but is it changing for the better? In chess as in other sports, change is too often dictated not by what is good for the game but by what is profitable. We play our best when comfortable in our attire. It's nothing short of amazing that many people still make an issue out of trivial external characteristics. Is it really asking too much for chess to remain above the mindset that article of clothing A is somehow better than article of clothing B? Suits and ties probably translate into more money, and this is the bottom line. Money talks, and it talks a lot louder than integrity and the well-being of chess." Other portions of the code were blasted by this writer and FIDE champion Karpov, who disliked the odious provision that punished players for acts committed by their delegation. GM Yasser Seirawan, a frequent critic of Kasparov in those days, also sounded an alarm in his regular Inside Chess editorial: "There are a number of issues at stake here. One is 'Free Speech.' The second is, 'Who determines proper behavior?' If Kasparov makes annoying faces during my game with him, can I calmly call for an arbiter and tell him that Garry's next smirk should cost him at least $50? A pleasant prospect, but difficult to enforce." The first victim of the gag rule was 21-year-old Gata Kamsky. In 1995 he balked at signing the code before playing 25-year-old Vishy Anand, who won their match to become Kasparov's next challenger atop the ill- fated World Trade Center in Manhattan. At a press conference Kamsky complained that the PCA sliced its $200,000 purse in half. He was fined $1,500 on the spot. "Kamsky's treatment was truly despicable," opined former Chess Life editor Larry Parr. "Oh, yes, I know that his pugnacious father angers people; but the job of the PCA is not to get even with him by punishing his son. I interviewed Kasparov a number of times, but friendship did not cloud my judgment or blind me to his egotism. He is a chess genius, but the gag rule and blacklisting players is the kind of thing we had come to expect of FIDE, not the PCA. How has the PCA demonstrated its moral superiority to FIDE?" Even three-time USA champion Lev Alburt, a pal of Kasparov, told the New York Times, "Kamsky probably said a number of unpleasant things, but I don't think the PCA treated him very fairly. An organization that conducts championships must be objective, show no favorites, no bias. To build it around the world champion just doesn't look right to me, doesn't look like it has a future." [email protected] wrote: > I object to the FIDE handshake rule on two levels. > > The first is a sort of "free speech" level; rejecting shaking of hands > is often a type of political speech. If players refused to shake hands > with Alekhine after his anti-semitic article, for example, I would > feel very strange about punishing them with loss of game. > > The other level on which I object is that this sort of "code of > behavior" rule (the dress rule is similar) is intended to make chess > more popular, but it actually does quite the opposite. If our players > all become bland, identically dressed, well behaved automata as a > result of these codes, chess will become more boring for the public. > Feuds between outsize personalities may lead to occasional mockery, > but it also gets attention, and makes the games more interesting since > people have a reason to root for one or the other chess player. I am > not saying chess should become world-wide wrestling, but we should > celebrate those incredibly talented eccentrics who are often at the > top of the chess world. It is a part of our chess culture, and there > is no reason to try to hide it. > > Jerry Spinrad > > On Jan 23, 2:44 pm, keithbc <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 23 Jan, 20:04, Mike Murray <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:47:42 +0100, "Jerzy" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >Chessplayers can greet each other in other ways to show that wthey will > > > >compete honestly. > > > > > "Herr Lasker, I have only two words to say to you: ?'Check' and > > > 'Mate'". ? > > > > The problem was not encountered with Toppy and Kram because neither > > OFFERED their hand - so bypassed the regulations which stipulate that > > if you are OFFERED your opponent's hand, you MUST accept.
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Date: 22 Jan 2008 21:54:06
From:
Subject: Re: Is a handshake really a big deal?
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J.D. Walker wrote: > [email protected] wrote: > > > > Alex wrote: > >> I don't understand why you have shake hands with your opponent before > >> you play a rated FIDE game?? Also, Topalov and Kramnik did not shake > >> hands before their game and there was no protest. > >> > >> Does that mean if I play in the world open or other FIDE rated event > >> in the USA, can I complain to the TD if my opponent refuses to shake > >> my hand before or after the game??? > > > > > > 1) There is a specific FIDE regulation about this. I think it's ill- > > advised, but it's there. 2) Short complained to the arbiter (which is > > why I'm not too sympathetic about his having to play the game on what > > should have been a rest day). Presumably Kramnik and Topalov showed > > better sense and did not. 3) You can certainly try this in a U.S. > > tournament. I don't advise it. Most TDs will tell you to sit down and > > play the game. > > Mr. Hillery, > > I apologize in advance, but I find these bizarre FIDE legalisms > fascinating. Hypothetical: what if Short complained to the arbiter > about Kramnik and Topalov not shaking... Could he have had them both > forfeited for being generally rude and poor sportsmen? > > On another tack, what if one opponent bows while the other offers his > hand? Then they both complain... > -- > > Cordially, > Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. 1) I don't think a third party would have standing to complain if neither of the players did so. 2) According to an article on the FIDE web site, "Any player who does not shake hands with the opponent (or greets the opponent in a normal social manner in accordance with the conventional rules of their society) before the game starts in a FIDE tournament or during a FIDE match (and does not do it after being asked to do so by the arbiter) or deliberately insults his/her opponent or the officials of the event, will immediately and finally lose the relevant game." So bowing would be OK if it was "in accordance with the conventional rules of (the player's) society." I think a forfeit under the circumstances was excessive (as did the appeals committee), but it seems clear that Cheparinov _did_ intend to "deliberately insult" his opponent, and he deserved some penalty.
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Date: 22 Jan 2008 19:40:40
From:
Subject: Re: Is a handshake really a big deal?
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Alex wrote: > I don't understand why you have shake hands with your opponent before > you play a rated FIDE game?? Also, Topalov and Kramnik did not shake > hands before their game and there was no protest. > > Does that mean if I play in the world open or other FIDE rated event > in the USA, can I complain to the TD if my opponent refuses to shake > my hand before or after the game??? 1) There is a specific FIDE regulation about this. I think it's ill- advised, but it's there. 2) Short complained to the arbiter (which is why I'm not too sympathetic about his having to play the game on what should have been a rest day). Presumably Kramnik and Topalov showed better sense and did not. 3) You can certainly try this in a U.S. tournament. I don't advise it. Most TDs will tell you to sit down and play the game.
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Date: 22 Jan 2008 19:53:11
From: J.D. Walker
Subject: Re: Is a handshake really a big deal?
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[email protected] wrote: > > Alex wrote: >> I don't understand why you have shake hands with your opponent before >> you play a rated FIDE game?? Also, Topalov and Kramnik did not shake >> hands before their game and there was no protest. >> >> Does that mean if I play in the world open or other FIDE rated event >> in the USA, can I complain to the TD if my opponent refuses to shake >> my hand before or after the game??? > > > 1) There is a specific FIDE regulation about this. I think it's ill- > advised, but it's there. 2) Short complained to the arbiter (which is > why I'm not too sympathetic about his having to play the game on what > should have been a rest day). Presumably Kramnik and Topalov showed > better sense and did not. 3) You can certainly try this in a U.S. > tournament. I don't advise it. Most TDs will tell you to sit down and > play the game. Mr. Hillery, I apologize in advance, but I find these bizarre FIDE legalisms fascinating. Hypothetical: what if Short complained to the arbiter about Kramnik and Topalov not shaking... Could he have had them both forfeited for being generally rude and poor sportsmen? On another tack, what if one opponent bows while the other offers his hand? Then they both complain... -- Cordially, Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.
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Date: 25 Jan 2008 04:00:57
From: Ray Gordon, creator of the \pivot\
Subject: Re: Is a handshake really a big deal?
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Germs. Violates the ADA. -- Ray Gordon, The ORIGINAL Lifestyle Seduction Guru http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html Includes 29 Reasons Not To Be A Nice Guy Ray's new "Project 5000" is here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/project-5000 Don't rely on overexposed, mass-keted commercial seduction methods which no longer work. Thinking of taking a seduction "workshiop?" Read THIS: http://www.dirtyscottsdale.com/?p=1187 Beware! VH-1's "The Pickup Artst" was FRAUDULENT. Six of the eight contestants were actors, and they used PAID TARGETS in the club. The paid targets got mad when VH-1 said "there are no actors in this club" and ruined their prromised acting credit. What else has Mystery lied about?
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