Main
Date: 08 Feb 2009 00:51:04
From: Offramp
Subject: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
I have been reading Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi. It's his
own version of the events in te 1978 Baguio match with Karpov.
Unfortunately VK comes across as a paranoid lunatic.

There was a bit that made me do a double-take on page 40, about game 8
which Karpov won:

"The conclusive combination a few moves later was positively crushing.
1:0."

Owing to the influence of the internet I at first took the 1:0 to be
an expression of sad disbelief by the author that he had lost!




 
Date: 21 Feb 2009 16:57:13
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
On Feb 21, 11:07=A0am, madams <micad...@bluesky.au > wrote:

> > Instead of yogurt, I will be utilizing different
> > flavors of soft drinks: Pepsi, Coke, Mountain
> > Dew, coffee, etc.

> Ew! - bot that's just so unhealthy & passe to boot & cawfee? that's
> a...a dwug, for God's sake. You need to check out the drinks cabinet,
> there's a whole new generation in there: Gatorade


Electrolytes...


> Red-Bull


Caffeine+...


> guarana


A friut, perhaps?


> & ginseng infusions - get with it & you'll soon be playing as good as
> Rodga Tennis you won't need to channel BF..


There is no scientific proof that ginseng does
all those things you see in kung fu flicks, such
as enabling fighting on wires up in the trees... .


> > =A0 Do you not subscribe to Chess Lies magazine?
>
> Course not, down here we're serviced by the CIA (chess in australia -
> geddit?) coincidentally put out by another Mr. Parr (a Mr. Peter Parr,
> whose father was one time all england champion blah blah blah)& - yes,
> I've noticed the constant parroting by LP of the famous Mr. Evans he
> should really try thinking for himself bot I guess that time is long
> past..


From wat I've seen, perhaps it is better that
Mr. Parr *not* attempt thinking-- the results can
be disasterous (as Dr. Blair has repeatedly
demonstrated).


> > =A0 Oh, these incidents very often did occur; it is
> > only the details the wannabe-journalists get
> > messed up, in their twisting and contorting of
> > facts to suit an agenda.

> Yeah, tho' I can't quite come @ this 'wannabe' bit. I mean what decent
> person would entertain the vile ambition to be one of these pushy
> scumbags, these low reptillian & vulturistic types whose sole intent is
> to cause & celebrate life's misery - yuk!..


Some folks /claim/ to practice the rare art of
journalism-- objectively reporting on events in
a fair and responsible manner. Unfortunately,
there aren't many such people in the chess
world-- a realm populated by nincompoops
who are always twisting and distorting things
for some sinister purpose (or just out of habit).

When one such fellow finally comes along --
not so much a reporter as an analyst after the
fact -- he (EW) is attacked for his dull writing
style, and much like Mr. Steinitz before him,
EW is quite easily irritated by the worst hacks
in the chess world, the Mr.Keenes and his ilk,
thus dispelling the illusion of real objectivity.


-- help bot







 
Date: 22 Feb 2009 03:07:29
From: madams
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
help bot wrote:
.
> Instead of yogurt, I will be utilizing different
> flavors of soft drinks: Pepsi, Coke, Mountain
> Dew, coffee, etc.

Ew! - bot that's just so unhealthy & passe to boot & cawfee? that's
a...a dwug, for God's sake. You need to check out the drinks cabinet,
there's a whole new generation in there: Gatorade, Red-Bull, guarana &
ginseng infusions - get with it & you'll soon be playing as good as
Rodga Tennis you won't need to channel BF..

> > > One might infer from
> > > the severe penalties recommended above that
> > > a Mr. Wlod must favor death by slow torture as
> > > remedy, to be fair and equitable. And as for
> > > the punching incident between Mr. Benko and
> > > Mr. Fischer,
> >
> > What is this?..
> >
> > Why wasn't I informed of this beer-hall behaviour?
>
> Do you not subscribe to Chess Lies magazine?

Course not, down here we're serviced by the CIA (chess in australia -
geddit?) coincidentally put out by another Mr. Parr (a Mr. Peter Parr,
whose father was one time all england champion blah blah blah)& - yes,
I've noticed the constant parroting by LP of the famous Mr. Evans he
should really try thinking for himself bot I guess that time is long
past..

> Has Mr. Parr forgotten to mention this in one of
> his innumerable "spam" postings hawking LE's
> latest book?
>
> > Did it actually occur or is it more likely the product of some
> > journalistic-type's diseased imagination?
>
> Oh, these incidents very often did occur; it is
> only the details the wannabe-journalists get
> messed up, in their twisting and contorting of
> facts to suit an agenda.

Yeah, tho' I can't quite come @ this 'wannabe' bit. I mean what decent
person would entertain the vile ambition to be one of these pushy
scumbags, these low reptillian & vulturistic types whose sole intent is
to cause & celebrate life's misery - yuk!..

m.



> > > the chap who threw the blow
> > > ought to be hanged.
> > > A real Captain Bly, this
> > > Mr. Wlod is.
> >
> > Bligh _is_ the name - bly the way help-mot..
>
> Look, we already have enouf pedants; go and
> find a reel job. I hear Mr. Obama is hiring some
> fix-it handymen, to work on the economy; have
> you got a degree in economics? Do you have
> a record of thinking "inside the box"? Can you
> guarantee not to muck things up any worse
> than Mr. Greenspan did? Then you're qualified.
> Doomsayers need not apply.
>
> -- help bot


 
Date: 19 Feb 2009 05:42:45
From: Taylor Kingston
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
On Feb 19, 3:15=A0am, madams <micad...@bluesky.au > wrote:
> Taylor Kingston wrote:
>
> > On Feb 18, 5:37 am, madams <micad...@bluesky.au> wrote:
> > > help bot wrote:
> .
> > > > And as for
> > > > the punching incident between Mr. Benko and
> > > > Mr. Fischer,
>
> > > What is this?..
> > > Did it actually occur...
> > =A0 Yes, it happened at the 1962 Candidates Tournament in =A0Cura=E7ao.
> > Benko and Fischer, the two American contestants, had only one second
> > between them, Arthur Bisguier. Early in the tournament, when Benko was
> > doing well and Fischer poorly, a disagreement developed over which of
> > them would have Bisguier's services for analyzing adjourned games.
> > Tempers grew heated and harsh words were spoken, finally culminating
> > in Benko either punching or slapping Fischer in the face. You can read
> > a more detailed account here:
>
> >http://www.chesscafe.com/text/fishben.txt
>
> OK - thks. It seems verbal insults were exchanged between F. & B.
> culminating in some sort of physical molestation of F... Maybe a
> twisting of F's ear or a spiteful tweaking of his nose took place -

No, an actual blow was struck. Benko, in his autobiography, says:

"Bobby got insulting and upset, I got more and more angry, and bang,
I hit him.
"Looking back on this mix-up, I'm ashamed of the whole affair. In
fact, I became so guilt-ridden for punching someone I genuinely cared
about that I could never play well against him again."

Fischer's lucky Benko didn't get fully enraged. Benko was quite
strong, and a full-on blow from him could have done real damage.



 
Date: 19 Feb 2009 19:15:57
From: madams
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
Taylor Kingston wrote:
>
> On Feb 18, 5:37 am, madams <micad...@bluesky.au> wrote:
> > help bot wrote:
.
> > > And as for
> > > the punching incident between Mr. Benko and
> > > Mr. Fischer,
> >
> > What is this?..

> > Did it actually occur...

> Yes, it happened at the 1962 Candidates Tournament in Curaçao.
> Benko and Fischer, the two American contestants, had only one second
> between them, Arthur Bisguier. Early in the tournament, when Benko was
> doing well and Fischer poorly, a disagreement developed over which of
> them would have Bisguier's services for analyzing adjourned games.
> Tempers grew heated and harsh words were spoken, finally culminating
> in Benko either punching or slapping Fischer in the face. You can read
> a more detailed account here:
>
> http://www.chesscafe.com/text/fishben.txt

OK - thks. It seems verbal insults were exchanged between F. & B.
culminating in some sort of physical molestation of F... Maybe a
twisting of F's ear or a spiteful tweaking of his nose took place - F.
is not specific & Mr Bisguier records Mr Benko as "making physical
gestures" towards Fischer which might even include the rude finger sign
or a clenched fist say, but really precludes the much more drastic right
upper-cut..

m.


 
Date: 18 Feb 2009 14:09:38
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
On Feb 18, 5:37=A0am, madams <micad...@bluesky.au > wrote:

> Yes, yes - bot you've failed to mention the 'yoghurt plot' the
> significance of the varying flavours: raspberry, pineapple & the truly
> sinister blueberry.. =A0


That is because I intend to use the very same
arrangement myself, this year, at the U.S. Open.
Mr. Fischer will transmit the correct moves to
me, via his "connection" to a man on this end.
Instead of yogurt, I will be utilizing different
flavors of soft drinks: Pepsi, Coke, Mountain
Dew, coffee, etc.


> > One might infer from
> > the severe penalties recommended above that
> > a Mr. Wlod must favor death by slow torture as
> > remedy, to be fair and equitable. =A0 And as for
> > the punching incident between Mr. Benko and
> > Mr. Fischer,
>
> What is this?..
>
> Why wasn't I informed of this beer-hall behaviour?


Do you not subscribe to Chess Lies magazine?
Has Mr. Parr forgotten to mention this in one of
his innumerable "spam" postings hawking LE's
latest book?


> Did it actually occur or is it more likely the product of some
> journalistic-type's diseased imagination?


Oh, these incidents very often did occur; it is
only the details the wannabe-journalists get
messed up, in their twisting and contorting of
facts to suit an agenda.


> > the chap who threw the blow
> > ought to be hanged. =A0
> > A real Captain Bly, this
> > Mr. Wlod is.
>
> Bligh _is_ the name - bly the way help-mot..


Look, we already have enouf pedants; go and
find a reel job. I hear Mr. Obama is hiring some
fix-it handymen, to work on the economy; have
you got a degree in economics? Do you have
a record of thinking "inside the box"? Can you
guarantee not to muck things up any worse
than Mr. Greenspan did? Then you're qualified.
Doomsayers need not apply.


-- help bot






 
Date: 18 Feb 2009 06:07:33
From: Taylor Kingston
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
On Feb 18, 5:37=A0am, madams <micad...@bluesky.au > wrote:
> help bot wrote:
>
> .
>
> > =A0 To me, the stories about the Ananda Marga
> > sect and their apparent threat to Mr. Karpov's
> > life, seem to put the no-handshake incident
> > into better perspective.
>
> Yes, yes - bot you've failed to mention the 'yoghurt plot' the
> significance of the varying flavours: raspberry, pineapple & the truly
> sinister blueberry.. =A0
>
> > One might infer from
> > the severe penalties recommended above that
> > a Mr. Wlod must favor death by slow torture as
> > remedy, to be fair and equitable. =A0 And as for
> > the punching incident between Mr. Benko and
> > Mr. Fischer,
>
> What is this?..
>
> Why wasn't I informed of this beer-hall behaviour?..

Perhaps because you did not qualify for the tournament? :-)

> Did it actually occur or is it more likely the product of some
> journalistic-type's diseased imagination?..

Yes, it happened at the 1962 Candidates Tournament in Cura=E7ao.
Benko and Fischer, the two American contestants, had only one second
between them, Arthur Bisguier. Early in the tournament, when Benko was
doing well and Fischer poorly, a disagreement developed over which of
them would have Bisguier's services for analyzing adjourned games.
Tempers grew heated and harsh words were spoken, finally culminating
in Benko either punching or slapping Fischer in the face. You can read
a more detailed account here:

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/fishben.txt

> > the chap who threw the blow
> > ought to be hanged. =A0
> > A real Captain Bly, this
> > Mr. Wlod is.
>
> Bligh _is_ the name - bly the way help-mot..

Spelling is not Greg's strong point. Nor is chess apparently; in
another thread he advocated the opening system 1.d4, 2.Nf3, 3.e3, and
4.Bf4. Reminds me of the time Sam Sloan advocated Bf1-b5-xc6-e2 in the
Exchange Variation of the Ruy L=F3pez.


 
Date: 18 Feb 2009 21:37:17
From: madams
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
help bot wrote:
.
> To me, the stories about the Ananda Marga
> sect and their apparent threat to Mr. Karpov's
> life, seem to put the no-handshake incident
> into better perspective.

Yes, yes - bot you've failed to mention the 'yoghurt plot' the
significance of the varying flavours: raspberry, pineapple & the truly
sinister blueberry..

> One might infer from
> the severe penalties recommended above that
> a Mr. Wlod must favor death by slow torture as
> remedy, to be fair and equitable. And as for
> the punching incident between Mr. Benko and
> Mr. Fischer,

What is this?..

Why wasn't I informed of this beer-hall behaviour?..

Did it actually occur or is it more likely the product of some
journalistic-type's diseased imagination?..

> the chap who threw the blow
> ought to be hanged.
> A real Captain Bly, this
> Mr. Wlod is.

Bligh _is_ the name - bly the way help-mot..


m.



> Or is he merely blinded by his
> own personal bias... .
>
> -- help bot


 
Date: 12 Feb 2009 16:19:13
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
On Feb 8, 3:44=A0pm, "Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)"
<sennaj...@gmail.com > wrote:

> Just look at the picture on which Karpov ignores
> Korchnoi's outstretched in the greeting gesture hand. For this Karpov
> should had been be kicked out of the match, forfeited and disqualified
> for a year, so that he would learn proper manners and human behavior.


Non sequitur; there is no scientific evidence that
such a penalty leads to the learning of manners;
nor is there any logical reason to assume it does.


> But where is the sense of proportions?


Precisely! Where is the sense of proportions
in arguing for arbitrary, severe penalties for not
shaking hands? And where is the objectivity
in nitpicking just this one item while ignoring
all the other strange behaviors, by both parties,
in their matches?

To me, the stories about the Ananda Marga
sect and their apparent threat to Mr. Karpov's
life, seem to put the no-handshake incident
into better perspective. One might infer from
the severe penalties recommended above that
a Mr. Wlod must favor death by slow torture as
remedy, to be fair and equitable. And as for
the punching incident between Mr. Benko and
Mr. Fischer, the chap who threw the blow
ought to be hanged. A real Captain Bly, this
Mr. Wlod is. Or is he merely blinded by his
own personal bias... .


-- help bot







 
Date: 08 Feb 2009 14:34:06
From: parrthenon@cs.com
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
NO DIFFERENCE

Wlod is right.

The the USSR there was no difference between paranoia and real fear.

Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod) wrote:
> On Feb 8, 12:51 am, Offramp <alaneobr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I have been reading Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi. It's his
> > own version of the events in te 1978 Baguio match with Karpov.
> > Unfortunately VK comes across as a paranoid lunatic.
>
> I am very said to read about your quick impression. Korchnoi is not so
> much paranoid as non-stop sarcastic, which in the case of many of us
> (but not me) facing cynical, brutal prejudice and discrimination, was
> the unfortunate, kind of sick reaction of people under duress--those
> non-stop, supposedly funny (not at all) talking like "they" do, to
> show their extremal unfairness.
>
> The world of chess, and these rgc groups too, were unable (and still
> do) to differentiate between trivial human shortcomings and basic evil
> of the other side. Just look at the picture on which Karpov ignores
> Korchnoi's outstretched in the greeting gesture hand. For this Karpov
> should had been be kicked out of the match, forfeited and disqualified
> for a year, so that he would learn proper manners and human behavior.
> Many of you, guys, don't understand it. Just think about the last
> Karpov-Korchnoi match, before which Korchnoi's son was beaten up and
> arrested by the Soviet thugs and "authorities". Sure, Korcznoi is not
> a perfectly balanced person, can be annoying at the times. But where
> is the sense of proportions?
>
>
> > There was a bit that made me do a double-take on page 40,
> > about game 8 which Karpov won:
> >
> > "The conclusive combination a few moves later
> > was positively crushing. 1:0."
> >
> > Owing to the influence of the internet I at first took
> > the 1:0 to be an expression of sad disbelief by the
> > author that he had lost!
>
> You see :-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Wlod


  
Date: 18 Feb 2009 14:42:51
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Supermanski - aka Red Son.. Was - Persona Non Grata by Viktor
On Feb 18, 7:53=A0am, madams <micad...@bluesky.au > wrote:

> John Savard - (aka Quadibloc wrote the above)


Notice how that is indicated by the quadruple
arrows, contrasting sharply with the single arrors in
front of what JS himself wrote. Don't worry, mate:
eventually, you'll get the 'and of these things.


> > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Son

> > =A0 I was working my way through this fairly interesting
> > story when I ran smack dab into this lunacy:

> Well yes, I too found the ideas inherent in Red Son of interest,
> probably something to do with the banishment of world poverty/starvation
> & co. plus the superlative artwork, awards won & so on..


Ideas? I was talking about the story (as I wrote).


> > ----
> > =A0 "Horrified at the implication that Superman is more
> > intelligent than him after losing a chess game to the
> > clone, Luthor murders his research staff...".
> > ----
>
> > =A0 Uh, did that writer actually just equate general
> > intelligence with winning a single game at chess?
> > LOL!

> Er, no bot-man - if you had read more carefully you'd have divined quite
> clearly that B - grade intellects were'nt in the ball-park..
>
> Thus: "His opposing number is the American Lex Luthor, a scientist at
> the employ of S.T.A.R. Labs and a super-genius who is very well aware of
> his intellect and has very little regard for lesser minds. He is married
> to Lois Lane."..


Look, matey: I read that part, but it doesn't matter
if'n these two were at the top, at the bottom, or in
the middle of the rating pool; there was a clear-cut
implication that *a single game of chess* served to
decide which was the superior superior-intellect,
which is just plain laughable!

As I see it, the superior genius is he who does
not allow himself to become obsessed with a
silly board game, but rather, he uses his great
mental capacity to escape Caissa's grasp.
Even Mr. Einstein (a bit of a wanker) grasped
this key concept.


> > =A0 Heck, most of the commie-bashing claptrap
> > I've seen lately mixes key terms up like a jumble
> > of multi-colored jellybeans: socialism, fascism
> > and communism are used interchangeably,
> > which just goes to show they don't have a clue
> > what they are jabbering about.
>
> es - suppose so, tho' it's thought in certain circles that communism &
> fascism are two kernels from the same cob whereas socialism is a pea in
> it's own pod so to speak..


You begin to sound more and more like Mr.
IMnes... .

Now, either the words mean different things,
or they don't. If they do (and all dictionaries
support this view), then folks who know what
they are talking about will not jumble the
words up as in a jellybean jar; these folks
will chosse the appropriate term for the
occasion, knowing that the other terms are
incorrect.
Those who mix their terms at random are
revealing to readers that they are ignorant
chatterboxes, whose worn-out minds could
use a major overhaul.


> > =A0 The latest rant I've seen has Big Gov'ment
> > as the root cause of our recent troubles-- the
> > subprime mess and stock market meltdown.
> > =A0This guy... a Mr. Skousen... has it that the
> > folks in Washington D.C. need to stop
> > meeting, go home or maybe to Tahiti for a
> > few years so the economy can recover.
>
> es, good idea, give us all a rest from their infernal meddling tho' it's
> a guarantee they'll screw up Tahiti


No, no, no! They are not going to /rule/ in
Tahiti; they are going there for a little vacation.


> & now we have to suffer 4 more
> years of that abominable mad-eyed woman strutting the world stage -
> bring back Conda. ..


Ms. Rice was perhaps three times smarter
than her boss, Mr. Bush; but even so, she is
tainted by the fact that she for so long loyally
served her evil master.


> > Damn if he doesn't sound like one of those
> > closet Libertarians (who vote Republican, to
> > stave off higher taxes on themselves-- the
> > wealthy).
>
> es es, did that madoff coot bilk you of a bit - help-loss?..


Certainly not. I never trust my money to
someone else; I am perfectly capable of
losing billions without any help from anyone,
as I just recently demonstrated. (Know of
anybody who has a working time-travel
machine?)


> es, es a bit of the even-hand doesn't go astray but I've no trouble
> admiring both of these mr's play, not the boring trabant stuff but the
> maserati or odd ferrari they come out with. Just go to the 1-0, 0-1
> games for starters, click the fast-forward button to go to the end,
> check to see whether it's a 90, 45, 38 mover or whatnot, click the
> back-button a few moves etc. I can't size the board to my screen etc. so
> it's enough for me..


That's just the trouble; one should not /need/
to skip over the majority of games, in order to
find interesting, fighting chess.


> Here's the famous Anderssen/Dufresne game with a 'kibitz' I can identify
> with copied below..


Alas, I do not require wild and wolly chess
to satisfy my cravings... just something a
bit more interesting than those early match
games, which *all* led to draws, and which
remind me somewhat of games between
the local patzers on bottom boards, also
agreed drawn. Certainly, these champions
have the right to play their own style of
chess, but I am hardly obligated to enjoy
it.


-- help bot


  
Date: 18 Feb 2009 23:53:49
From: madams
Subject: Re: Supermanski - aka Red Son.. Was - Persona Non Grata by Viktor
help bot wrote:
>
> On Feb 14, 8:25 pm, madams <micad...@bluesky.au> wrote:
>
> > > His father committed the crime of leaving the worker's paradise. The
> > > Soviet Union was a dictatorship, not a democracy. Its brutal tyrants
> > > did what they liked when they liked, and thus the concept that someone
> > > would have to commit a crime to be harmed by the authorities is
> > > meaningless.

John Savard - (aka Quadibloc wrote the above)..

> > Closet commies will smile knowingly..
> >
> > Larry Parr will be quite put-off his crispy fried cockroach kebab..
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Son
>
> I was working my way through this fairly interesting
> story when I ran smack dab into this lunacy:

Well yes, I too found the ideas inherent in Red Son of interest,
probably something to do with the banishment of world poverty/starvation
& co. plus the superlative artwork, awards won & so on..

> ----
> "Horrified at the implication that Superman is more
> intelligent than him after losing a chess game to the
> clone, Luthor murders his research staff...".
> ----
>
> Uh, did that writer actually just equate general
> intelligence with winning a single game at chess?
> LOL!

Er, no bot-man - if you had read more carefully you'd have divined quite
clearly that B - grade intellects were'nt in the ball-park..

Thus: "His opposing number is the American Lex Luthor, a scientist at
the employ of S.T.A.R. Labs and a super-genius who is very well aware of
his intellect and has very little regard for lesser minds. He is married
to Lois Lane."..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Son


> And all this time I had thought the people who
> were really good at chess were so because they
> had /obsessively/ studied the game's intricasies,
> while largely neglecting important stuff like, uhh,
> like real life. Heck, even Mr. Einstein made this
> "mistake", questioning Mr. Lasker for wasting
> his powerful intellect on a mere board game.

es es es es es..

> A good while back, I got to watching the TV
> series Smalleville, full-season DVD sets no less.
> While I enjoyed the storyline and special-effects,
> it struck me hard that this guy was lying like a
> rug, over and over, purportedly to protect his
> secret identity... to mask his super-activities...
> and sometimes, just out of habit. It seemed
> wacky since the original TV series cast an
> older, heavier chap in the role of upholding
> TRUTH (i.e. no lying, ever), Justice, and the
> American way.

es..

> But back to the closet-commies thing. I just
> remembered that the first thing the new
> president of the USA did once in office was to
> toss out some old evil-commie style laws left
> over from his predecessor. You know what I
> mean-- torturing prisoners in secret camps...
> denying folks due process of 'Murican law...
> blatantly defying the Geneva Convention...
> that sort of stuff. Well, it just goes to show
> how wrong those commie-bashers are to
> pretend that people suffer only under certain
> types of government they don't like.

es, my word, sure does - es..

> Heck, most of the commie-bashing claptrap
> I've seen lately mixes key terms up like a jumble
> of multi-colored jellybeans: socialism, fascism
> and communism are used interchangeably,
> which just goes to show they don't have a clue
> what they are jabbering about.

es - suppose so, tho' it's thought in certain circles that communism &
fascism are two kernels from the same cob whereas socialism is a pea in
it's own pod so to speak..

> The latest rant I've seen has Big Gov'ment
> as the root cause of our recent troubles-- the
> subprime mess and stock market meltdown.
> This guy... a Mr. Skousen... has it that the
> folks in Washington D.C. need to stop
> meeting, go home or maybe to Tahiti for a
> few years so the economy can recover.

es, good idea, give us all a rest from their infernal meddling tho' it's
a guarantee they'll screw up Tahiti - & now we have to suffer 4 more
years of that abominable mad-eyed woman strutting the world stage -
bring back Conda. ..

> Damn if he doesn't sound like one of those
> closet Libertarians (who vote Republican, to
> stave off higher taxes on themselves-- the
> wealthy).

es es, did that madoff coot bilk you of a bit - help-loss?..

>
> Anyway, it was nice to see -- for a HUGE
> change -- someone source a rational fellow
> (Mr. Byrne) on the subject of Mr. Kortchnoi's
> ire and Mr. Karpov's unwilling hand, instead
> of just the usual hate-filled rants from the
> Evans-ratpack Cold War relics.

es, es a bit of the even-hand doesn't go astray but I've no trouble
admiring both of these mr's play, not the boring trabant stuff but the
maserati or odd ferrari they come out with. Just go to the 1-0, 0-1
games for starters, click the fast-forward button to go to the end,
check to see whether it's a 90, 45, 38 mover or whatnot, click the
back-button a few moves etc. I can't size the board to my screen etc. so
it's enough for me..

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=54641

> I played over the first several games at the
> games link in this thread, and I've got to tell
> you, they were real *snoozers*. The clever
> joke by AK that in game one, they had just
> been "testing the equipment", could have
> applied just as well to several of their other
> games as well. When we finally get a
> decisive game, it is only because, like
> GetClub, VK snatched a poisoned pawn on
> the same file as his King and then was
> unable to fend off the onslaught.

es..

Here's the famous Anderssen/Dufresne game with a 'kibitz' I can identify
with copied below..

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1018961

Oct-14-08 BraveUlysses: The argument about old versus new masters is
an interesting one even if some people get upset or feel comparisons are
odious. I think we would all agree that most or all of the masters
throughout the last 150 years or so were/are quite brilliant (or else
how would they have played the games on the record- we plodders don't
come up with many OTB brilliancies do we?), with a select (large) group
of true freakish geniuses like Morphy, Alekhine, Capa, Bobby, Kasp and
Karp et al. The old masters might find modern chess a bit boring and
look askance at all this bookish analysis and using computers to sniff
out small gains in openings etc, but who would doubt they would have the
ability to succeed in the modern game if they wanted to? And a Kasparov
or Fischer would have been among the best in any generation, without
doubt. Ditto Carlsen, but I am not sure some of the present top masters
would have had the chutzpah to cut the mustard in the old days as they
seem to go for safety and avoid wild positions in the search for a draw,
especially as black, which the old masters would have scorned. I say,
all hail ALL the masters, old and new... but give me fireworks and
imaginative play over prepared lines and caution any day- that is why
you have to admire players like Anderssen and Morphy.

es..

m.

> I'm no expert on VK, but I must say that for
> a world championship match contestant, this
> guy seemed to have /nothing/ as White, at
> least in the early games I replayed. It
> reminds me of me... .
>
> -- help bot


  
Date: 14 Feb 2009 19:53:37
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
On Feb 14, 8:41=A0pm, madams <micad...@bluesky.au > wrote:

> > =A01. =A0As even dull Mr. Kingston has spotted, the
> > source of the claims of beatings has not been
> > determined here in rgc, and the alleged victim
> > mentioned no such beatings himself in his
> > own account. =A0
>
> BASTARDRY S.U.STYLE.. =A0
>
> Teasing, spitting & hair-pulling, kicking, pushing & shoving & outright
> bashing was/is common procedure - used to toughen recalcitrant recruits
> in Russia as far as I can ascertain (consider the WW2 punishment
> brigades where if you didn't advance on withering fire you got a bullet
> in the back)..
>
> It seems that Igor in trying to avoid the above brutalisation got 2.5yrs
> in a labour-camp instead - where treatment was even worse..
>
> Thus the initial 'duffing-up' by the KGB in the Lubyanka dungeon, as
> time wore on, passed into the realm of the insignificant..


Thanks for clearing that up; for a moment, I
thought you were describing the USA's own
internment camps, where folks might only
wish to be abused /physically/, rather than
in more psychologically devastating ways.


Mr. Kingston asked for a /source/ for the
claim that VK's son was beaten... and nothing
has emerged apart from more commie-bashing
fun. Funny thing is, in a series of articles by
Mr. Kingston on another wild-eyed claim by
the Evans ratpack, the source was eventually
determined to be an unrelaible fellow... whose
unsupported ravings had simply been parroted
by one ratpacker after another. In other
words, *it fit their agenda*, and thus qualified
as a fact by their "rigorous" standards.

As you may recall, not long ago TK was
calling LP a bald-faced liar, so if anything, one
might wonder why TK treads so lightly these
days... as if fearing that one of LP's many,
many lies might somehow have real support.
But this fear seems rather silly, for in almost
every case, the source turns out to be their
own jumbled minds... .

Mr. Wlod insisted that one chap here had
"misread" VK; he said it was not paranoia,
but rather it was always-on sarcasm. But
what does Mr. Byrne say? His commentary
had VK as a bit of a psycho, who needed to
hate his enemy (i.e. opponent) in order to
play strong chess. Mr. Byrne did not even
mention the term sarcasm. Besides, Mr.
Wlod was clearly drunk-- his writing made
no sense and was barely recognizable as
English. The follow-on posting by LP
revealed that he, too, had been drinking
heavily (not vodka like Mr. Wlod, but a fine
red wine I suspect).

You see, it all boils down to this: if asked
for a source, LP will invariably believe that
his source has already been stated: LE.
Mr. Evans, you understand, is believed to
be an infallible god of sorts, so there is no
need to trace the source back any further.
One does not /question/ the gods... one
merely stands in awe of them. (That is,
until the day one discovers the truth... .)


-- help bot








  
Date: 14 Feb 2009 19:20:56
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Supermanski - aka Red Son.. Was - Persona Non Grata by Viktor
On Feb 14, 8:25=A0pm, madams <micad...@bluesky.au > wrote:

> > His father committed the crime of leaving the worker's paradise. The
> > Soviet Union was a dictatorship, not a democracy. Its brutal tyrants
> > did what they liked when they liked, and thus the concept that someone
> > would have to commit a crime to be harmed by the authorities is
> > meaningless.
>
> Closet commies will smile knowingly..
>
> Larry Parr will be quite put-off his crispy fried cockroach kebab..
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Son


I was working my way through this fairly interesting
story when I ran smack dab into this lunacy:

----
"Horrified at the implication that Superman is more
intelligent than him after losing a chess game to the
clone, Luthor murders his research staff...".
----

Uh, did that writer actually just equate general
intelligence with winning a single game at chess?
LOL!

And all this time I had thought the people who
were really good at chess were so because they
had /obsessively/ studied the game's intricasies,
while largely neglecting important stuff like, uhh,
like real life. Heck, even Mr. Einstein made this
"mistake", questioning Mr. Lasker for wasting
his powerful intellect on a mere board game.

A good while back, I got to watching the TV
series Smalleville, full-season DVD sets no less.
While I enjoyed the storyline and special-effects,
it struck me hard that this guy was lying like a
rug, over and over, purportedly to protect his
secret identity... to mask his super-activities...
and sometimes, just out of habit. It seemed
wacky since the original TV series cast an
older, heavier chap in the role of upholding
TRUTH (i.e. no lying, ever), Justice, and the
American way.

But back to the closet-commies thing. I just
remembered that the first thing the new
president of the USA did once in office was to
toss out some old evil-commie style laws left
over from his predecessor. You know what I
mean-- torturing prisoners in secret camps...
denying folks due process of 'Murican law...
blatantly defying the Geneva Convention...
that sort of stuff. Well, it just goes to show
how wrong those commie-bashers are to
pretend that people suffer only under certain
types of government they don't like.

Heck, most of the commie-bashing claptrap
I've seen lately mixes key terms up like a jumble
of multi-colored jellybeans: socialism, fascism
and communism are used interchangeably,
which just goes to show they don't have a clue
what they are jabbering about.

The latest rant I've seen has Big Gov'ment
as the root cause of our recent troubles-- the
subprime mess and stock market meltdown.
This guy... a Mr. Skousen... has it that the
folks in Washington D.C. need to stop
meeting, go home or maybe to Tahiti for a
few years so the economy can recover.
Damn if he doesn't sound like one of those
closet Libertarians (who vote Republican, to
stave off higher taxes on themselves-- the
wealthy).


Anyway, it was nice to see -- for a HUGE
change -- someone source a rational fellow
(Mr. Byrne) on the subject of Mr. Kortchnoi's
ire and Mr. Karpov's unwilling hand, instead
of just the usual hate-filled rants from the
Evans-ratpack Cold War relics.

I played over the first several games at the
games link in this thread, and I've got to tell
you, they were real *snoozers*. The clever
joke by AK that in game one, they had just
been "testing the equipment", could have
applied just as well to several of their other
games as well. When we finally get a
decisive game, it is only because, like
GetClub, VK snatched a poisoned pawn on
the same file as his King and then was
unable to fend off the onslaught.

I'm no expert on VK, but I must say that for
a world championship match contestant, this
guy seemed to have /nothing/ as White, at
least in the early games I replayed. It
reminds me of me... .


-- help bot




















  
Date: 15 Feb 2009 12:41:40
From: madams
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
help bot wrote:
.
> 1. As even dull Mr. Kingston has spotted, the
> source of the claims of beatings has not been
> determined here in rgc, and the alleged victim
> mentioned no such beatings himself in his
> own account.

BASTARDRY S.U.STYLE..

Teasing, spitting & hair-pulling, kicking, pushing & shoving & outright
bashing was/is common procedure - used to toughen recalcitrant recruits
in Russia as far as I can ascertain (consider the WW2 punishment
brigades where if you didn't advance on withering fire you got a bullet
in the back)..

It seems that Igor in trying to avoid the above brutalisation got 2.5yrs
in a labour-camp instead - where treatment was even worse..

Thus the initial 'duffing-up' by the KGB in the Lubyanka dungeon, as
time wore on, passed into the realm of the insignificant..

m.










> Obviously, hacks like RK, LE
> and LP cannot be relied upon to report the
> facts objectively on such a matter as this, a
> fun Anatoly Karpov-bashing fiesta for them.
>
> 2. Here in the good old USA, the reverse is
> true: instead of innocents being beaten up to
> punish others, the guilty are let off when they
> have the proper government connections.
> For instance, look at what happened when
> our last president had failed to show up, went
> AWOL-- nothing! Another example is what
> happened in the final days of the Bill Clinton
> administration: pardons were doled out to a
> number of criminals, in return for their prior
> campaign donations which got him elected
> to public office.
>
> I'm always astounded by the incredible
> gullibility (or dishonesty) of those who want
> to pretend that dictatorship is at the root of
> corruption. Q: what was the biggest-ever
> scam and under what economic system
> (capitalism is merely an economic system,
> not a true religion, folks) did it occur? A:
> Madoff's ponzi scheme, under capitalism.
>
> -- help bot


  
Date: 15 Feb 2009 12:25:13
From: madams
Subject: Re: Supermanski - aka Red Son.. Was - Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
Quadibloc wrote:
>
> On Feb 8, 10:19 pm, Sin...@webtv.net (SAT W-7) wrote:
> > Why did they do that to his son , what crime did he commit...
>
> His father committed the crime of leaving the worker's paradise. The
> Soviet Union was a dictatorship, not a democracy. Its brutal tyrants
> did what they liked when they liked, and thus the concept that someone
> would have to commit a crime to be harmed by the authorities is
> meaningless.

Closet commies will smile knowingly..

Larry Parr will be quite put-off his crispy fried cockroach kebab..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Son

m.


  
Date: 15 Feb 2009 11:18:17
From: madams
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
Offramp wrote:
>
> Karpov won it back in 1981 anyway.

He won in 1978 (Baguio) too..

According to Grandmaster Robert Byrne:

Korchnoi, the challenger, thrives on rancor, developing instant aversion
for every opponent he plays. Their mutual dislike began with Korchnoi's
disparaging remarks about Karpov's play during their final Candidates'
Match in Moscow in 1974. True enmity did not blossom, however, until
their title match in Baguio City, the Philippines. After Korchnoi
defected from the Soviet Union in 1976, his wife, Bella, and son, Igor,
were prevented from joining him. Karpov was not amused when Korchnoi
called him "the jailer of my wife and son", implying that Karpov could
have obtained their release from the Soviet Union so they could have
joined Korchnoi. Karpov retaliated by terming Korchnoi "immoral" for
leaving his family behind when he defected to the West. Korchnoi
screamed, "Filthy!" and Karpov would no longer shake hands.

Karpov's FIDE Rating going into the match was 2725; Korchnoi's was 2665.
The match opened with seven draws. Karpov opened up a 5-2 lead and
seemed sure to win when Korchnoi made an astonishing comeback winning
three games to tie the match at 5-5. Karpov, however, won the very next
game to win the match.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=54641

m.


  
Date: 14 Feb 2009 10:26:26
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
On Feb 14, 7:20=A0am, Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca > wrote:

> > Why did they do that to his son , what crime did he commit...

> His father committed the crime of leaving the worker's paradise. The
> Soviet Union was a dictatorship, not a democracy. Its brutal tyrants
> did what they liked when they liked, and thus the concept that someone
> would have to commit a crime to be harmed by the authorities is
> meaningless.


Two points:

1. As even dull Mr. Kingston has spotted, the
source of the claims of beatings has not been
determined here in rgc, and the alleged victim
mentioned no such beatings himself in his
own account. Obviously, hacks like RK, LE
and LP cannot be relied upon to report the
facts objectively on such a matter as this, a
fun Anatoly Karpov-bashing fiesta for them.


2. Here in the good old USA, the reverse is
true: instead of innocents being beaten up to
punish others, the guilty are let off when they
have the proper government connections.
For instance, look at what happened when
our last president had failed to show up, went
AWOL-- nothing! Another example is what
happened in the final days of the Bill Clinton
administration: pardons were doled out to a
number of criminals, in return for their prior
campaign donations which got him elected
to public office.

I'm always astounded by the incredible
gullibility (or dishonesty) of those who want
to pretend that dictatorship is at the root of
corruption. Q: what was the biggest-ever
scam and under what economic system
(capitalism is merely an economic system,
not a true religion, folks) did it occur? A:
Madoff's ponzi scheme, under capitalism.


-- help bot




  
Date: 14 Feb 2009 09:20:10
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
Karpov won it back in 1981 anyway.


  
Date: 14 Feb 2009 07:46:37
From: parrthenon@cs.com
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
SOVIET BLOC DOMINATED FIDE

>After his family was released, why didn't FIDE simply award Korchnoi the =
world title by default? > -- John Savard

"The greatest weapon of our enemies is that people will tire of
fighting them." This quote is from Ricardo Calvo, a Spanish medical
doctor and international master censured by FIDE for a letter critical
of FIDE that was printed by New in Chess.

Once the leadership showed they could violate the rule of law with
impunity, they did it to serve their own agenda. It began with FIDE=92s
ouster of South Africa and their banning of players who went there,
the boycott of the Haifa Chess Olympiad by Arabs and the Soviet bloc
in 1976, the exclusion of Israel from the Olympiad at Dubai in 1986,
and the censure of Dr. Calvo in 1987.

This fiasco was followed by a proposed FIDE Code of Ethics in 1988,
which flopped, with severe press restrictions to muzzle critics. The
code provided sanctions even if what chess journalists wrote was true!
If passed, it would have enabled FIDE to bar players for up to four
years because of things they wrote or said. Loyalty oaths (gag orders)
were also suggested for new titleholders.

The code was drafted by David Anderton. a FIDE officer and British
lawyer who patterned it on England=92s dubious Race Relations Act.
During the debate in 1987, Anderson said FIDE did not go far enough in
censuring Calvo: "I have seen many other articles written by many
other people that I would put in precisely the same category...A lot
of others have been equally deplorable in going over the top and
bringing chess into disrepute."

But to stifle criticism is to stifle freedom. Disgusted with chess
politics, Calvo turned to the study of chess history....

THIS CRAZY WORLD OF CHESS by GM Larry Evans (page 118)



Quadibloc wrote:
> On Feb 9, 12:53 am, "parrthe...@cs.com" <parrthe...@cs.com> wrote:
> > After Korchnoi lost, his family finally was released.
>
> After his family was released, why didn't FIDE simply award Korchnoi
> the world title by default?
>
> This constituted unfair play by the Soviet Union, so the country
> should have been disqualified from participation in world chess as a
> result.
>
> John Savard


  
Date: 14 Feb 2009 04:22:23
From: Quadibloc
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
On Feb 9, 12:53=A0am, "parrthe...@cs.com" <parrthe...@cs.com > wrote:
> After Korchnoi lost, his family finally was released.

After his family was released, why didn't FIDE simply award Korchnoi
the world title by default?

This constituted unfair play by the Soviet Union, so the country
should have been disqualified from participation in world chess as a
result.

John Savard


  
Date: 14 Feb 2009 04:20:09
From: Quadibloc
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
On Feb 8, 10:19=A0pm, Sin...@webtv.net (SAT W-7) wrote:
> Why did they do that to his son , what crime did he commit...

His father committed the crime of leaving the worker's paradise. The
Soviet Union was a dictatorship, not a democracy. Its brutal tyrants
did what they liked when they liked, and thus the concept that someone
would have to commit a crime to be harmed by the authorities is
meaningless.

John Savard


  
Date: 13 Feb 2009 07:32:11
From: Taylor Kingston
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
On Feb 11, 3:18=A0pm, madams <micad...@bluesky.au > wrote:
> parrthe...@cs.com wrote:
>
> .
>
> > Korchnoi=92s son was imprisoned
> > in the USSR and beaten on the eve of his next title match with Karpov
> > in 1981.
>
> THAT'S NOT ALL..
>
> A polaroid of his son, stripped to his Y-fronts & chained to a dungeon
> wall was surreptitiously placed in his hotel room as he slept..
>
> A note on the back of the photo promised the infamous 'starved-rat &
> cage treatment' if Korchnoi didn't take a powder in the (5) fifth..

Here we have two claims, about (1) Igor being beaten, and (2) a
photo of a chained Igor being surreptitiously placed in Korchnoi's
hotel room. Maybe I've missed them, but neither of these seems to be
mentioned in Korchnoi's autobiography, yet they seem to be just the
sort of think Korchnoi would mention prominently if they had happened.
Certainly, given that Igor Korchnoi reports various other mistreatment
in his ten-page memoir, it is odd that he mentions no beatings.
Given the bawdy tongue-in-cheek approach our Aussie friend Adams
brings to the group, his claim about the Polaroid is perhaps not meant
to be taken seriously, but Evans' story of the beating clearly was. So
I'm wondering: where was this beating reported, and how reliable is
the report? Was Igor actually beaten, or did the Soviets just spread
such a rumor to upset Korchnoi?



   
Date: 13 Feb 2009 07:37:37
From: Mike Murray
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 07:32:11 -0800 (PST), Taylor Kingston
<tkingston@chittenden.com > wrote:


> Here we have two claims, about (1) Igor being beaten, and (2) a
>photo of a chained Igor being surreptitiously placed in Korchnoi's
>hotel room. Maybe I've missed them, but neither of these seems to be
>mentioned in Korchnoi's autobiography, yet they seem to be just the
>sort of think Korchnoi would mention prominently if they had happened.
>Certainly, given that Igor Korchnoi reports various other mistreatment
>in his ten-page memoir, it is odd that he mentions no beatings.
> Given the bawdy tongue-in-cheek approach our Aussie friend Adams
>brings to the group, his claim about the Polaroid is perhaps not meant
>to be taken seriously, but Evans' story of the beating clearly was. So
>I'm wondering: where was this beating reported, and how reliable is
>the report? Was Igor actually beaten, or did the Soviets just spread
>such a rumor to upset Korchnoi?

The threat is stronger than the execution.


  
Date: 12 Feb 2009 07:18:04
From: madams
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
parrthenon@cs.com wrote:
.
> Korchnoi’s son was imprisoned
> in the USSR and beaten on the eve of his next title match with Karpov
> in 1981.

THAT'S NOT ALL..

A polaroid of his son, stripped to his Y-fronts & chained to a dungeon
wall was surreptitiously placed in his hotel room as he slept..

A note on the back of the photo promised the infamous 'starved-rat &
cage treatment' if Korchnoi didn't take a powder in the (5) fifth..

m.


  
Date: 09 Feb 2009 08:05:20
From: parrthenon@cs.com
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
KEENE ON KORCHNOI

The Soviet authorities allowed Korchnoi to compete at the Amsterdam
international tournament in 1976; a good showing by Korchnoi would
reinforce the view that Karpov was a worthy champion. Indeed, Korchnoi
won the tournament jointly with Tony Miles, but he also took the
opportunity to defect to the West. This was the first ever chess
defection to the West by a high ranking Soviet Grandmaster, although a
trend had been set beforehand in other cultural spheres such as
ballet.

Settling at first in the Netherlands, he launched his next assault on
the world title with renewed vigour, smashing through the elite of
world chess to face Karpov for a championship contest at Baguio in
1978. Karpov built up an early lead, at one point scoring 5-2 in the
first-to-six-wins match. Korchnoi fought back to level terms, but
after 32 games, marked by extraordinary tension and off-stage antics
by the retinues of each player, Korchnoi lost the match by a single
point.

Korchnoi=92s next assault on the world championship against his now
hated arch-rival Karpov came in 1981 at Merano. Once again Korchnoi
had swept his way past leading grandmasters - Petrosian, Polugaevsky
and Spassky - to face his old enemy. However, on this occasion, Karpov
was much better prepared than in the previous two encounters and, at
the age of thirty, had attained the peak of his form.



Korchnoi was by now already fifty, though what he lacked in stamina he
certainly made up for in sheer determination and will to win.
Nevertheless, the match turned out to be a disaster for the older man,
who was perhaps distracted by his campaign to be joined by his wife
and son, still in the USSR. After a mere 18 games had been played,
Korchnoi had been defeated by the score of six wins to two, with ten
draws. So dramatic was the course of this bitter contest, that it
provided much of the inspiration for the Tim Rice/ABBA musical CHESS.


The grand old man continued to compete as a Candidate; in 1983, he
faced the rising star Garry Kasparov in the semi-final. The USSR chess
federation refused to allow their player to compete in the USA, where
the match had originally been scheduled, thus causing Kasparov to
default. Korchnoi magnanimously agreed to rearrange the match in
London but, sadly, he was then annihilated by his much younger
rival.
Garry Kasparov






parrthenon@cs.com wrote:
> IT'S ONLY A GAME
>
> >Why did they do that to his son, what crime did he commit...> -- SAT W-7
>
> Tournament organizers were notified that if Korchnoi were invited, no
> Russians would come. Korchnoi's name was conspicuously absent from the
> list of the world=92s top ten grandmasters in 1979 competing at the
> $110,000 Challenge Cup in Montreal. Anatoly
> Karpov, who tied for first there with ex-titleholder Mikhail Tal, had
> been able to wield his influence as world champion in support of the
> party line, cabling the organizers, "If I could not refuse to face
> Korchnoi at Baguio, I am now entitled to expect organizers to respect
> certain conditions. Either they invite Korchnoi or me."
>
> Not all the Russians joined the offensive against the expatriate.
> Spassky was one of three (but only three) Soviet grandmasters who
> refused to sign a letter of censure against Korchnoi. (Botvinnik and
> Bronstein were the other two holdouts.) Korchnoi=92s son was imprisoned
> in the USSR and beaten on the eve of his next title match with Karpov
> in 1981. After Korchnoi lost, his family finally was released.
>
> THIS CRAZY WORLD OF CHESS by GM Larry Evans (page 101)


  
Date: 09 Feb 2009 06:49:03
From: Taylor Kingston
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
On Feb 9, 12:19=A0am, Sin...@webtv.net (SAT W-7) wrote:
> Why did they do that to his son , what crime did he commit...

As I understand it, the ostensible reason for imprisoning Viktor
Korchnoi's son Igor was draft-dodging. He had been ordered into
military service in May 1978, but he did not report. In subsequent
months he moved around a lot, changing his residence often to keep
away from the authorities. But he was finally arrested, in late 1979 I
believe, and imprisoned until May 1982.

Of course Igor's real "crime" was that he was the son of a prominent
defector.

In Korchnoi's autobiography "Chess Is My Life" (Edition Olms, 2005),
Igor himself gives an account of that time in a ten-page chapter,
"Igor's Memoirs." He does not mention receiving any beatings, either
around the time of the 1981 match or any other, but it's clear his
prison term was highly unpleasant.


  
Date: 08 Feb 2009 23:53:11
From: parrthenon@cs.com
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
IT'S ONLY A GAME

>Why did they do that to his son, what crime did he commit...> -- SAT W-7

Tournament organizers were notified that if Korchnoi were invited, no
Russians would come. Korchnoi's name was conspicuously absent from the
list of the world=92s top ten grandmasters in 1979 competing at the
$110,000 Challenge Cup in Montreal. Anatoly
Karpov, who tied for first there with ex-titleholder Mikhail Tal, had
been able to wield his influence as world champion in support of the
party line, cabling the organizers, "If I could not refuse to face
Korchnoi at Baguio, I am now entitled to expect organizers to respect
certain conditions. Either they invite Korchnoi or me."

Not all the Russians joined the offensive against the expatriate.
Spassky was one of three (but only three) Soviet grandmasters who
refused to sign a letter of censure against Korchnoi. (Botvinnik and
Bronstein were the other two holdouts.) Korchnoi=92s son was imprisoned
in the USSR and beaten on the eve of his next title match with Karpov
in 1981. After Korchnoi lost, his family finally was released.

THIS CRAZY WORLD OF CHESS by GM Larry Evans (page 101)



   
Date: 12 Feb 2009 18:13:49
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
wow thanks for that info , so if he beat Karpov his son still mite be in
jail.....



   
Date: 12 Feb 2009 09:18:31
From: Mr.Vidmar
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
Persona Non Grata by Lenny Cavallaro is well worth reading.

<parrthenon@cs.com > wrote in message
news:638f9718-7426-4384-945d-1cd752d6ad42@a12g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
IT'S ONLY A GAME

>Why did they do that to his son, what crime did he commit...> -- SAT W-7

Tournament organizers were notified that if Korchnoi were invited, no
Russians would come. Korchnoi's name was conspicuously absent from the
list of the world’s top ten grandmasters in 1979 competing at the
$110,000 Challenge Cup in Montreal. Anatoly
Karpov, who tied for first there with ex-titleholder Mikhail Tal, had
been able to wield his influence as world champion in support of the
party line, cabling the organizers, "If I could not refuse to face
Korchnoi at Baguio, I am now entitled to expect organizers to respect
certain conditions. Either they invite Korchnoi or me."

Not all the Russians joined the offensive against the expatriate.
Spassky was one of three (but only three) Soviet grandmasters who
refused to sign a letter of censure against Korchnoi. (Botvinnik and
Bronstein were the other two holdouts.) Korchnoi’s son was imprisoned
in the USSR and beaten on the eve of his next title match with Karpov
in 1981. After Korchnoi lost, his family finally was released.

THIS CRAZY WORLD OF CHESS by GM Larry Evans (page 101)



  
Date: 08 Feb 2009 21:19:40
From: SAT W-7
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
Why did they do that to his son , what crime did he commit...



 
Date: 08 Feb 2009 12:44:54
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
On Feb 8, 12:51=A0am, Offramp <alaneobr...@gmail.com > wrote:

> I have been reading Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi. It's his
> own version of the events in te 1978 Baguio match with Karpov.
> Unfortunately VK comes across as a paranoid lunatic.

I am very said to read about your quick impression. Korchnoi is not so
much paranoid as non-stop sarcastic, which in the case of many of us
(but not me) facing cynical, brutal prejudice and discrimination, was
the unfortunate, kind of sick reaction of people under duress--those
non-stop, supposedly funny (not at all) talking like "they" do, to
show their extremal unfairness.

The world of chess, and these rgc groups too, were unable (and still
do) to differentiate between trivial human shortcomings and basic evil
of the other side. Just look at the picture on which Karpov ignores
Korchnoi's outstretched in the greeting gesture hand. For this Karpov
should had been be kicked out of the match, forfeited and disqualified
for a year, so that he would learn proper manners and human behavior.
Many of you, guys, don't understand it. Just think about the last
Karpov-Korchnoi match, before which Korchnoi's son was beaten up and
arrested by the Soviet thugs and "authorities". Sure, Korcznoi is not
a perfectly balanced person, can be annoying at the times. But where
is the sense of proportions?


> There was a bit that made me do a double-take on page 40,
> about game 8 which Karpov won:
>
> "The conclusive combination a few moves later
> was positively crushing. 1:0."
>
> Owing to the influence of the internet I at first took
> the 1:0 to be an expression of sad disbelief by the
> author that he had lost!

You see :-)

Regards,

Wlod


 
Date: 08 Feb 2009 06:13:00
From: Taylor Kingston
Subject: Re: Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi
On Feb 8, 3:51=A0am, Offramp <alaneobr...@gmail.com > wrote:
> I have been reading Persona Non Grata by Viktor Kortschnoi. It's his
> own version of the events in te 1978 Baguio match with Karpov.
> Unfortunately VK comes across as a paranoid lunatic.

He comes across that way in other books too. Of course, in his case,
the paranoia was sometimes quite justified, though certainly not
always.

> There was a bit that made me do a double-take on page 40, about game 8
> which Karpov won:
>
> "The conclusive combination a few moves later was positively crushing.
> 1:0."
>
> Owing to the influence of the internet I at first took the 1:0 to be
> an expression of sad disbelief by the author that he had lost!

:-D