Main Date: 04 Apr 2008 06:12:56 From: Subject: Sam Sloan's Research "Skills"? In another thread, Rev. J.D. Walker said of Sam Sloan: On Apr 3, 6:48 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net > wrote: > Sam, > Just for the record, I acknowledge your fierce skills at research. I'm not sure what "fierce" was supposed to mean in this context, but regulars of this newsgroup know that applying the word "skill" to Sam's research is an oxymoron. He is generally quite slipshod. Often his research is not just weak, but actively bad, using fabrication rather than documentation. Just to mention one especially ludicrous example involving myself: "My source has confirmed that both Innes and Kingston are the same person ... I don't believe they exist." - Sam Sloan, 29 December 2005 He later revised this to claim that chess historian Edward G. Winter and I are the same person. (3 March 2006, see http://tinyurl.com/382e2z) Other Sloan fiascoes that regulars here may recall include Peter Leko's "death," the "missing" USCF records, his misdating the earliest instances of the Benko Gambit, the claim that USCF ratings are not Elo ratings, the claim that I am "webmaster" for ChessCafe.com, and many others. One particularly glaring example comes from April 2005, in Sloan's examination of Japanese-American relations and urban housing trends: http://tinyurl.com/27xx5h Perhaps rgc readers recall other examples. We want to be sure that Rev. Walker is fully informed.   Date: 07 Apr 2008 19:28:16 From: help bot Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed On Apr 6, 3:02 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net > wrote: > This incident is pretty interesting. Was it ever published in an > investigative article that I could read on the net? I'd love to know > more. If not, it sounds like an issue that deserves an investigation. "... a stooge for the Evans ratpack". -- help bot This guy reminds me of "Jr", a fellow who somehow got caught in the middle of the rat pack's attacks on "anons". Some speculated that "Jr" might be LE, and very soon he disappeared into the sunset. I am only pointing this out so that Sam Sloan cannot later take the "credit" for scooping the story; if it turns out that "Jr" and Rev. Walker are one and the same stooge, I tossed it out there first. In any case, you can fuggetabout any grudge matches, unless I get my usual Queen odds; I don't care how old the guy is-- he used to be /really good/! -- help bot   Date: 07 Apr 2008 18:48:36 From: help bot Subject: Re: The Elo System On Apr 6, 12:09 am, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net > wrote: > >> For example, I have never had an Elo Rating. I am willing to admit it. > >> However, I have always been a stronger chess player than Taylor > >> Kingston is. In the above comment, Mr. Sloan obviously intended to convey that he has never had a *FIDE* rating, but he wrote "Elo rating". Why? The answer is clearly his need to wrangle the facts such as to attack Taylor Kingston -- an annoying critic of the Evans ratpackers. ------- Here's an obvious flaw in the USCF ratings, which has been noted by others and a fix already envisioned: there are, believe it or not, chess tourneys in which a player can be given more Blacks than Whites, and this in turn can skew the results. The format I describe is called a "quad", and in a quad, one not only is never forced to play against oneself (whew!), but can be given White against patzers and Black against the top seed(s), where one "needed" the White. Worse, this can happen over and over, as the players are seeded by ratings, and these rankings can remain fairly stable over time. Luckily, I am as bad with one color as with the other, but many folks can get a skewed result from this kind of thing. The point of chess ratings should be their ability to accurately predict game outcomes, but so long as premature draws and other such problems exist, the best we can do is eradicate the obvious flaws, as described above. -- help bot   Date: 07 Apr 2008 17:07:03 From: Subject: Re: "nothing is revealed" #1 Google hit http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/frankielee.html [...] Well, up the stairs ran Frankie Lee With a soulful, bounding leap, And, foaming at the mouth, He began to make his midnight creep. For sixteen nights and days he raved, But on the seventeenth he burst Into the arms of Judas Priest, Which is where he died of thirst. No one tried to say a thing When they took him out in jest, Except, of course, the little neighbor boy Who carried him to rest. And he just walked along, alone, With his guilt so well concealed, And muttered underneath his breath, "Nothing is revealed." Well, the moral of the story, The moral of this song, Is simply that one should never be Where one does not belong. So when you see your neighbor carryin' somethin', Help him with his load, And don't go mistaking Paradise For that home across the road.   Date: 07 Apr 2008 16:59:53 From: jeremy.p.spinrad@vanderbilt.edu Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed On Apr 7, 11:00=A0am, "jeremy.p.spin...@vanderbilt.edu" <jeremy.p.spin...@vanderbilt.edu > wrote: > An analogy I would make is with grades at a university. These are > taken very seriously; there is no doubt more possibility for > corruption than in the USCF rating system. There are people who have > cheated the system in various ways, no doubt even including people > giving money for grades in rare cases. > > There is not any organized attempt to determine whether an > individual's grades were tampered with. When it does come to light, it > is usually very much like Sam's case; someone cannot understand how > this individual received such a grade, and pursues the inquiry. We > certainly have no special checks on our honor's list students. > > I would not expect to find that the USCF has better system for catchin > abuse than a university. > > As for quality control, the university and the USCF do very much the > same thing. They monitor inflation/deflation of grades/ratings, and > use various tools with varying degrees of success o try to make sure > they do not get out of control. Just to make this clear, let me say that the analogy is not to a student cheating. A student cheating is a reasonably common event, and the university is fairly vigilant. This is like the procedures in chess to guard against a player cheating during the game. The rare event is a TD/professor or graduate student cheating. This is (I hope!) a very rare event, which is why there is not much attention in either the chess world or the university to it. It is more serious than a student/player cheating despite the rarity, and can do more damage. In both cases, it is an issue of the people we trust to make the system run actively undermining the system. It is usually exposed in both cases only due to some accident, not because of fixed procedures in place which guard against it. Jerry Spinrad > > All in all, the USCF rating system is one of the few things the USCF > has gotten right. There are many worse areas to focus on, and it seems > strange to pick on the ratings system as a major feature of USCF > incompetence. The magazine, management, and promotion are all far more > important problem areas. > > Note to those who remember the distant past: I still feel that the > lowering of K factor for high rated players is not a good decision. > However, I would not call this incompetence or abuse; simply a > disagreement. > > Jerry Spinrad > > On Apr 6, 8:23=A0pm, The Historian <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Apr 6, 6:11 pm, "jeremy.p.spin...@vanderbilt.edu" > > > <jeremy.p.spin...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote: > > > This was the incident which I praised Sam for in an earlier post. It > > > is amazing that this could be summarized as a case where a board > > > member was forced to resign because of a dispute with the rating > > > committee. This was a pure and simple case of ratings fraud. There is > > > nobody at fault here except for the board member. > > > > It is easy to say that the ratings committee should catch this, but > > > very hard in practice. There are too many pieces of data coming in to > > > check whether every one is legitimiate. The rating committee's chief > > > job is to set up a good system, not to police it. Every rating system > > > can be manipulated by a cheater placed in a position of trust. It is > > > rare for a TD to cheat in this way; unfortunately, it is not the only > > > case. I do not hold the rating system or the rating committee at > > > fault, just as I would not hold the national basketball league at > > > fault if a referee is found to be in the pay of gamblers. The fault is= > > > all on the trusted individual. > > > > For those who tout FIDE's superiority in all things, FIDE has had > > > ratings manipulations schemes as well. In this case, Sam did a good > > > job exposing a cheater; blaming it on anybody but the cheater (in > > > particular, making it seem like the cheater was a victim!) is a very > > > strange way of looking at the case. > > > > JerrySpinrad > > > I agree the fault is on the 'trusted' individual, but one can make the > > case there should be some sort of oversight applied to title > > applications. I haven't the faintest idea of how this should be done, > > or indeed if USCF needs to place such oversight in place following > > Tannergate. P Innes, as usual, doesn't make any sort of argument one > > way or another other than waving his hands and screaming.- Hide quoted t= ext - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -   Date: 07 Apr 2008 19:04:44 From: Guy Macon Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed jeremy.p.spinrad@vanderbilt.edu wrote: >This was a pure and simple case of ratings fraud. > >It is easy to say that the ratings committee should catch this, but >very hard in practice. There are too many pieces of data coming in to >check whether every one is legitimiate. The rating committee's chief >job is to set up a good system, not to police it. Is that specified in the ratings committee job description? The rating committee should make a reasonable effort to police the system against cheating. If the only job of the rating committee is to set up a good system, the committee should have been disbanded once the system was set up. >Every rating system can be manipulated by a cheater placed in >a position of trust. That's not true. Systems exist where no one person can cheat the system; any CPA can set up such a system for you. >I do not hold the rating system or the rating committee at >fault, just as I would not hold the national basketball >league at fault if a referee is found to be in the pay of >gamblers. In both cases, whether the organization is at fault hinges on the nature of the cheating. If it was subtle cheating that nobody could have caught, the organization is not at fault. If it was blatent cheating that anybody should have been able to catch, or if they were tipped off and ignored the tip, then the organization is at fault This does not, of course, reduce the guilt of the atcual cheater. Someone playing the same high-rated player over and over -- a high rated player who never plays anyone else -- is trivially easy to spot. Any sports federation that doesn't commision someone to write software that catches such blatant cheating is simply not doing their job. -- Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/ >   Date: 07 Apr 2008 09:00:28 From: jeremy.p.spinrad@vanderbilt.edu Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed An analogy I would make is with grades at a university. These are taken very seriously; there is no doubt more possibility for corruption than in the USCF rating system. There are people who have cheated the system in various ways, no doubt even including people giving money for grades in rare cases. There is not any organized attempt to determine whether an individual's grades were tampered with. When it does come to light, it is usually very much like Sam's case; someone cannot understand how this individual received such a grade, and pursues the inquiry. We certainly have no special checks on our honor's list students. I would not expect to find that the USCF has better system for catchin abuse than a university. As for quality control, the university and the USCF do very much the same thing. They monitor inflation/deflation of grades/ratings, and use various tools with varying degrees of success o try to make sure they do not get out of control. All in all, the USCF rating system is one of the few things the USCF has gotten right. There are many worse areas to focus on, and it seems strange to pick on the ratings system as a major feature of USCF incompetence. The magazine, management, and promotion are all far more important problem areas. Note to those who remember the distant past: I still feel that the lowering of K factor for high rated players is not a good decision. However, I would not call this incompetence or abuse; simply a disagreement. Jerry Spinrad On Apr 6, 8:23=A0pm, The Historian <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com > wrote: > On Apr 6, 6:11 pm, "jeremy.p.spin...@vanderbilt.edu" > > > > > > <jeremy.p.spin...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote: > > This was the incident which I praised Sam for in an earlier post. It > > is amazing that this could be summarized as a case where a board > > member was forced to resign because of a dispute with the rating > > committee. This was a pure and simple case of ratings fraud. There is > > nobody at fault here except for the board member. > > > It is easy to say that the ratings committee should catch this, but > > very hard in practice. There are too many pieces of data coming in to > > check whether every one is legitimiate. The rating committee's chief > > job is to set up a good system, not to police it. Every rating system > > can be manipulated by a cheater placed in a position of trust. It is > > rare for a TD to cheat in this way; unfortunately, it is not the only > > case. I do not hold the rating system or the rating committee at > > fault, just as I would not hold the national basketball league at > > fault if a referee is found to be in the pay of gamblers. The fault is > > all on the trusted individual. > > > For those who tout FIDE's superiority in all things, FIDE has had > > ratings manipulations schemes as well. In this case, Sam did a good > > job exposing a cheater; blaming it on anybody but the cheater (in > > particular, making it seem like the cheater was a victim!) is a very > > strange way of looking at the case. > > > JerrySpinrad > > I agree the fault is on the 'trusted' individual, but one can make the > case there should be some sort of oversight applied to title > applications. I haven't the faintest idea of how this should be done, > or indeed if USCF needs to place such oversight in place following > Tannergate. P Innes, as usual, doesn't make any sort of argument one > way or another other than waving his hands and screaming.- Hide quoted tex= t - > > - Show quoted text -     Date: 07 Apr 2008 14:19:07 From: Chess One Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed <jeremy.p.spinrad@vanderbilt.edu > wrote in message news:c05bcc14-bd8d-4862-8e78-6551ecd9aa5d@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... An analogy I would make is with grades at a university. These are taken very seriously; there is no doubt more possibility for corruption than in the USCF rating system. There are people who have cheated the system in various ways, no doubt even including people giving money for grades in rare cases. There is not any organized attempt to determine whether an individual's grades were tampered with. When it does come to light, it is usually very much like Sam's case; someone cannot understand how this individual received such a grade, and pursues the inquiry. We certainly have no special checks on our honor's list students. I would not expect to find that the USCF has better system for catchin abuse than a university. -------- ** fine feathers! uscf cannot admit to any system to invigilate even a master rating - in the past 24 hours i have cited 2 instances! colleges do have systems, which may or may not be extaordinary, but even high schools have systems for catching plagiarists. i fail to understand why jerry spinrad seems to be acting as proxy agent for ken sloan, and why he suggests that having no qc is a-ok? ** if indeed uscf has no control systems whatever, it merely needs to say so, not argue about it, or justify it, or pretend there is system while none exists - its plain old truth telling that is required, rather than argumentation which merely obfusticates the issue of what is there and what is not ** here is yet another distrait post which admits nothing of what goes on, and where nothing is revealed phil innes ------- As for quality control, the university and the USCF do very much the same thing. They monitor inflation/deflation of grades/ratings, and use various tools with varying degrees of success o try to make sure they do not get out of control. All in all, the USCF rating system is one of the few things the USCF has gotten right. There are many worse areas to focus on, and it seems strange to pick on the ratings system as a major feature of USCF incompetence. The magazine, management, and promotion are all far more important problem areas. Note to those who remember the distant past: I still feel that the lowering of K factor for high rated players is not a good decision. However, I would not call this incompetence or abuse; simply a disagreement. Jerry Spinrad On Apr 6, 8:23 pm, The Historian <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com > wrote: > On Apr 6, 6:11 pm, "jeremy.p.spin...@vanderbilt.edu" > > > > > > <jeremy.p.spin...@vanderbilt.edu> wrote: > > This was the incident which I praised Sam for in an earlier post. It > > is amazing that this could be summarized as a case where a board > > member was forced to resign because of a dispute with the rating > > committee. This was a pure and simple case of ratings fraud. There is > > nobody at fault here except for the board member. > > > It is easy to say that the ratings committee should catch this, but > > very hard in practice. There are too many pieces of data coming in to > > check whether every one is legitimiate. The rating committee's chief > > job is to set up a good system, not to police it. Every rating system > > can be manipulated by a cheater placed in a position of trust. It is > > rare for a TD to cheat in this way; unfortunately, it is not the only > > case. I do not hold the rating system or the rating committee at > > fault, just as I would not hold the national basketball league at > > fault if a referee is found to be in the pay of gamblers. The fault is > > all on the trusted individual. > > > For those who tout FIDE's superiority in all things, FIDE has had > > ratings manipulations schemes as well. In this case, Sam did a good > > job exposing a cheater; blaming it on anybody but the cheater (in > > particular, making it seem like the cheater was a victim!) is a very > > strange way of looking at the case. > > > JerrySpinrad > > I agree the fault is on the 'trusted' individual, but one can make the > case there should be some sort of oversight applied to title > applications. I haven't the faintest idea of how this should be done, > or indeed if USCF needs to place such oversight in place following > Tannergate. P Innes, as usual, doesn't make any sort of argument one > way or another other than waving his hands and screaming.- Hide quoted > text - > > - Show quoted text -   Date: 06 Apr 2008 19:48:59 From: samsloan Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed On Apr 6, 9:19 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net > wrote: > And I agree with several others that it seems to be a very bad idea for > the man to be continuing as a TD after what has happened. It appears > that the sanctions applied to Mr. Tanner were basically Bill Murray > style, "Aren't you the naughty one! You better be good! Now get out of > here you knucklehead!!" > -- > > Cordially, > Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. I personally was not out to get Tanner. I discovered this ratings manipulation purely by accident while I was looking for something else. I basically was having an argument with Jerry Hanken who was claiming that Tanner was "never a master" whereas I was claiming that he was. I started looking at Tanner's tournament results. At first I thought I was hallucinating, seeing things, and finally I realized what was going on. I filed my ethics complaint but did not tell anybody about it. I decided just to let the wheels of justice grind. Nobody knew about it until the Ethics Committee made its decision months later. The actual ratings manipulation took place in 1992 and 1993. However, sources who knew him back in the 1980s say that he was manipulating his rating even back then. Basically it seems that his real chess strength is about 1900 but he manipulated his rating up to 2300. On the other hand, he is one of the most experienced and qualified TDs. How many other directors have experience running tournaments with 4,000 screaming kids running around? I see little point in revoking his TD Certification. Sam Sloan   Date: 06 Apr 2008 18:54:54 From: samsloan Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed On Apr 6, 3:50 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net > wrote: > samsloan wrote: > > He is referring to Robert Tanner and that is not what happened at all. > > > The whole story is at: > >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.politics/msg/376c468af... > > > Basically Tanner created three fake personalities, all rated around > > 2200-2300 and played Quads against them over and over again, thereby > > raising his own rating to over 2300, giving himself a floor of 2200. > > > The first fake person was Andre Peroit. The first rating of Andre > > Peroit was a provisional 2356 in the 1992 > > Wyoming National Parks RR in Jackson, Wyoming, directed by 'I'anner. > > > He then created Milan Djiatlich and Leopold Rodl and played them over > > and over, winning 31 consecutive games against Milan Djiatlich, who > > supposedly was rated over 2300. > > > None of this had anything to do with Ken Sloan or Eric Johnson. > > > Sam Sloan > > Sam, > > Thanks for the reply and the link Sam. I am going to once again sail > upon troubled waters by saying that this complaint on the surface > appears to be very detailed and consequently the product of much > research. If it is all accurate, then, /I am impressed with your > research skills in this instance./ > > However, your critics suggest that your facts and conclusions are to be > generally regarded as suspect. Since this is a past event perhaps > someone else has put in as much or more work to dig out the facts of > this event. Is there any thing else I can read to possibly balance the > reportage of this event? > > What exactly happened after you lodged this complaint? > -- > > Cordially, > Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. What happened was the Ethics Committee by a vote of 6-3 found that Tanner had manipulated his own rating and voted to reprimand him (only). Then Goichberg made a (secret) deal with Tanner that if he would resign from the board and from all his FIDE Positions, which included his position as USA Zone President, no further action would be taken against him, such as revoking his TD Certification. Tanner accepted this deal and went back to Arizona and nothing further has been heard from him. However, I understand from other sources that upon his return to Arizona, once the schools where he was running chess classes found out about this, he lost all his teaching jobs and those jobs were given to other chess teachers. I have heard that Tanner is completely out of chess now. I must say that Tanner behaved like a gentleman throughout this entire affair. He never uttered even one word of recrimination or anything like that. The first time I have ever heard anybody say that this was some sort of political vendetta or anything like that was the inappropriate posting by Phil Innes today. Sam Sloan     Date: 06 Apr 2008 19:19:18 From: J.D. Walker Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed samsloan wrote: > On Apr 6, 3:50 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: >> samsloan wrote: > >>> He is referring to Robert Tanner and that is not what happened at all. >>> The whole story is at: >>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.politics/msg/376c468af... >>> Basically Tanner created three fake personalities, all rated around >>> 2200-2300 and played Quads against them over and over again, thereby >>> raising his own rating to over 2300, giving himself a floor of 2200. >>> The first fake person was Andre Peroit. The first rating of Andre >>> Peroit was a provisional 2356 in the 1992 >>> Wyoming National Parks RR in Jackson, Wyoming, directed by 'I'anner. >>> He then created Milan Djiatlich and Leopold Rodl and played them over >>> and over, winning 31 consecutive games against Milan Djiatlich, who >>> supposedly was rated over 2300. >>> None of this had anything to do with Ken Sloan or Eric Johnson. >>> Sam Sloan >> Sam, >> >> Thanks for the reply and the link Sam. I am going to once again sail >> upon troubled waters by saying that this complaint on the surface >> appears to be very detailed and consequently the product of much >> research. If it is all accurate, then, /I am impressed with your >> research skills in this instance./ >> >> However, your critics suggest that your facts and conclusions are to be >> generally regarded as suspect. Since this is a past event perhaps >> someone else has put in as much or more work to dig out the facts of >> this event. Is there any thing else I can read to possibly balance the >> reportage of this event? >> >> What exactly happened after you lodged this complaint? >> -- >> >> Cordially, >> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. > > What happened was the Ethics Committee by a vote of 6-3 found that > Tanner had manipulated his own rating and voted to reprimand him > (only). > > Then Goichberg made a (secret) deal with Tanner that if he would > resign from the board and from all his FIDE Positions, which included > his position as USA Zone President, no further action would be taken > against him, such as revoking his TD Certification. > > Tanner accepted this deal and went back to Arizona and nothing further > has been heard from him. > > However, I understand from other sources that upon his return to > Arizona, once the schools where he was running chess classes found out > about this, he lost all his teaching jobs and those jobs were given to > other chess teachers. I have heard that Tanner is completely out of > chess now. > > I must say that Tanner behaved like a gentleman throughout this entire > affair. He never uttered even one word of recrimination or anything > like that. The first time I have ever heard anybody say that this was > some sort of political vendetta or anything like that was the > inappropriate posting by Phil Innes today. > > Sam Sloan Sam, There is information about a tournament called the SMART CHESS VALENTINE'S TOURNAMENT held on 2008-02-23 at GILBERT, AZ 85299 USA. I find this on the USCF ratings search site. There were three sections, a K3, a K6, and an Open. Robert B Tanner is listed as Assistant TD in all three sections. A Cassandra J Tanner shows up in the K3 event. Robert B Tanner also is listed as a player in the Open section. I think it is safe to conclude that the man is still active in USCF chess. Thanks for the information about how this was handled after the charge was filed with the Ethics Committee. The "secret deal" you mentioned does concern me. This is what I think of as "burying the corpse and trying to pretend it never happened." If there had been a more public treatment of this, perhaps other important things would have been uncovered. Perhaps better safeguards would have been devised to prevent it in the future. And I agree with several others that it seems to be a very bad idea for the man to be continuing as a TD after what has happened. It appears that the sanctions applied to Mr. Tanner were basically Bill Murray style, "Aren't you the naughty one! You better be good! Now get out of here you knucklehead!!" -- Cordially, Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.   Date: 06 Apr 2008 18:32:27 From: The Historian Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed David Kane wrote: > "J.D. Walker" <j.d.walker@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:cK2dnTBAgtEzqmTanZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@comcast.com... > > However, your critics suggest that your facts and conclusions are to be > > generally regarded as suspect. > > I think most of Sam's critics would concede that he was basically > right in this case. Yes, the stopped clock was right for once. It was never determined that Tanner's > opponents were "fake", though. (personally I think it the most likely > scenario although there are other possibilities, none of which > make Tanner's behavior look any better) > > That somebody could file phony tournament reports and still be > a TD - that's USCF "standards" for you. He should have been stripped of his TD authority. > It really has nothing to do with the rating function or rating > committee. There will always be ways to game the system. Agreed.   Date: 06 Apr 2008 18:27:09 From: The Historian Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed On Apr 6, 8:22 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net > wrote: > The Historian wrote: > > On Apr 6, 7:57 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: > >> jeremy.p.spin...@vanderbilt.edu wrote: > >>> This was the incident which I praised Sam for in an earlier post. It > >>> is amazing that this could be summarized as a case where a board > >>> member was forced to resign because of a dispute with the rating > >>> committee. This was a pure and simple case of ratings fraud. There is > >>> nobody at fault here except for the board member. > >>> It is easy to say that the ratings committee should catch this, but > >>> very hard in practice. There are too many pieces of data coming in to > >>> check whether every one is legitimiate. The rating committee's chief > >>> job is to set up a good system, not to police it. Every rating system > >>> can be manipulated by a cheater placed in a position of trust. It is > >>> rare for a TD to cheat in this way; unfortunately, it is not the only > >>> case. I do not hold the rating system or the rating committee at > >>> fault, just as I would not hold the national basketball league at > >>> fault if a referee is found to be in the pay of gamblers. The fault is > >>> all on the trusted individual. > >>> For those who tout FIDE's superiority in all things, FIDE has had > >>> ratings manipulations schemes as well. In this case, Sam did a good > >>> job exposing a cheater; blaming it on anybody but the cheater (in > >>> particular, making it seem like the cheater was a victim!) is a very > >>> strange way of looking at the case. > >>> Jerry Spinrad > >>> On Apr 6, 3:50 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: > >>>> samsloan wrote: > >>>>> On Apr 6, 2:02 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: > >>>>>> Chess One wrote: > >>>>>>> "samsloan" <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>news:9557df57-d941-4098-a3e1-607eca688249@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>> On Apr 6, 10:16 am, "Chess One" <OneCh...@comcast.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> Ken Sloan's administration of the USCF rating department occassioned a > >>>>>>>>> board > >>>>>>>>> member to resign! That's not false. > >>>>>>>> I am really curious. I have never heard this one before. > >>>>>>>> What board member resigned, and why? > >>>>>>> I am not mentioning his name, since there is no need to celebrate the > >>>>>>> fallen - and indeed he seems to have acted on very bad advice to accept a > >>>>>>> title. But what of the responsibility of those awarding the title? > >>>>>>> But this player was on the board preceeding yours, and the crime was for > >>>>>>> ratings rigging - so that he played the same half dozen players in closed > >>>>>>> tournaments, and they all rated 1650/1800 - thereby he gained a point or two > >>>>>>> at a time. I am not sure he ever played anyone 2200 or above. > >>>>>>> At the time everyone was shocked he should have done so, yet 2 USCF > >>>>>>> departments allowed (a) him to continue accumulating points this way [that's > >>>>>>> the rating dept], and (b) then another department made him a life-master > >>>>>>> with a ratings floor. Neither of them seem to notice his opponent's level of > >>>>>>> play. > >>>>>>> I mention this particularly since the guy who egged him on and encouraged > >>>>>>> him to apply for the title is a USCF Delegate, Eric Johnson, and the guy who > >>>>>>> oversaw the ratings department is Ken Sloan, and this pair decided in YOUR > >>>>>>> newsgroup to rubbish other companies ratings 'quality control', with all the > >>>>>>> usual absense of detail, and abstract criticism. > >>>>>>> Ken Sloan has failed to assure anyone that this fault is not a common one at > >>>>>>> USCF, therefore he never 'notices' my question, 'how frequently has this > >>>>>>> happened', even though he assures us that all is OK. The only thing he has > >>>>>>> ever responded with is the comment 'how do you know nothing has changed', > >>>>>>> which is as mindless a piece of verbage as he could insult USCF's system > >>>>>>> with, since the answer lies in his own inability and unwillingness to show > >>>>>>> if anything changed. > >>>>>>> Why another department should also not have noticed such a prominent > >>>>>>> ratings-account when giving the player a Masters award and a ratings floor > >>>>>>> is also entirely 'unclear', except to say that he was a politico and into a > >>>>>>> Fide postion... > >>>>>>> Makes a change to getting a watch. > >>>>>>> Phil Innes > >>>>>>>> Sam Sloan > >>>>>> Phil, > >>>>>> This incident is pretty interesting. Was it ever published in an > >>>>>> investigative article that I could read on the net? I'd love to know > >>>>>> more. If not, it sounds like an issue that deserves an investigation. > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Cordially, > >>>>>> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. > >>>>> He is referring to Robert Tanner and that is not what happened at all. > >>>>> The whole story is at: > >>>>>http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.politics/msg/376c468af... > >>>>> Basically Tanner created three fake personalities, all rated around > >>>>> 2200-2300 and played Quads against them over and over again, thereby > >>>>> raising his own rating to over 2300, giving himself a floor of 2200. > >>>>> The first fake person was Andre Peroit. The first rating of Andre > >>>>> Peroit was a provisional 2356 in the 1992 > >>>>> Wyoming National Parks RR in Jackson, Wyoming, directed by 'I'anner. > >>>>> He then created Milan Djiatlich and Leopold Rodl and played them over > >>>>> and over, winning 31 consecutive games against Milan Djiatlich, who > >>>>> supposedly was rated over 2300. > >>>>> None of this had anything to do with Ken Sloan or Eric Johnson. > >>>>> Sam Sloan > >>>> Sam, > >>>> Thanks for the reply and the link Sam. I am going to once again sail > >>>> upon troubled waters by saying that this complaint on the surface > >>>> appears to be very detailed and consequently the product of much > >>>> research. If it is all accurate, then, /I am impressed with your > >>>> research skills in this instance./ > >>>> However, your critics suggest that your facts and conclusions are to be > >>>> generally regarded as suspect. Since this is a past event perhaps > >>>> someone else has put in as much or more work to dig out the facts of > >>>> this event. Is there any thing else I can read to possibly balance the > >>>> reportage of this event? > >>>> What exactly happened after you lodged this complaint? > >>>> -- > >>>> Cordially, > >>>> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >> I have spent quite a few hours today searching around the Web based on > >> the search terms "USCF Ratings scandal." There has been lots to read. > >> One thing is noticeable by its absence -- An official account of the > >> Tanner scandal by the USCF. I see where the man was charged, where he > >> eventually apologized, and where he resigned -- then nothing. Perhaps > >> the official report is confined in some members-only area of the USCF > >> web site which I will never see, because I am not going to rejoin... > > >> I notice that Mr. Tanner is still directing tournaments and playing in > >> them. The tournament cross table I looked at showed him getting a bye > >> then drawing a game and then forfeiting two games. As he was the Asst. > >> TD perhaps he only joined to round out the number of players... > > >> Meanwhile... I encountered this statement at Mig Greengard's blog in an > >> old entry dated July 10, 2006. "That Michigan Class A player who > >> allegedly cheated in Philly is facing perhaps very serious sanctions > >> such as a lifetime ban from playing in USCF tournaments." Consider the > >> fairness of the sanctions between these two cases... > >> -- > > >> Cordially, > >> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. > > > Let's see. You 'can't find' a report on possible sanctions against > > Tanner, so you conclude one doesn't exist. > > No, I did not conclude... I indicated that I could not find it. > > You bring up a speculative > > > new report from a blog posting by someone outside of the USCF and draw > > a comparison between it and what you can't find for Tanner based > > solely on what MAY happen at some point. > > I asked people to consider the fairness involved in the sanctions that > were mentioned in both cases. If you don't want to fine. Don't. > > And all this in defense of > > > drivel P Innes posted about Dr. Sloan. No wonder you find Sam Sloan's > > research skills 'fierce.' > > I am not defending Sam Sloan, Phil Innes, Mr. Spinrad, Ken Sloan, David > Kane, or you. I am simply trying to inquire and learn some things. Do > you have anything informative or useful to contribute to this thread? > -- > > Cordially, > Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. Pointing out bad arguments and flawed thinking is a contribution. Unfortunately, it's both needed and unwelcome here.   Date: 06 Apr 2008 18:23:53 From: The Historian Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed On Apr 6, 6:11 pm, "jeremy.p.spin...@vanderbilt.edu" <jeremy.p.spin...@vanderbilt.edu > wrote: > This was the incident which I praised Sam for in an earlier post. It > is amazing that this could be summarized as a case where a board > member was forced to resign because of a dispute with the rating > committee. This was a pure and simple case of ratings fraud. There is > nobody at fault here except for the board member. > > It is easy to say that the ratings committee should catch this, but > very hard in practice. There are too many pieces of data coming in to > check whether every one is legitimiate. The rating committee's chief > job is to set up a good system, not to police it. Every rating system > can be manipulated by a cheater placed in a position of trust. It is > rare for a TD to cheat in this way; unfortunately, it is not the only > case. I do not hold the rating system or the rating committee at > fault, just as I would not hold the national basketball league at > fault if a referee is found to be in the pay of gamblers. The fault is > all on the trusted individual. > > For those who tout FIDE's superiority in all things, FIDE has had > ratings manipulations schemes as well. In this case, Sam did a good > job exposing a cheater; blaming it on anybody but the cheater (in > particular, making it seem like the cheater was a victim!) is a very > strange way of looking at the case. > > Jerry Spinrad I agree the fault is on the 'trusted' individual, but one can make the case there should be some sort of oversight applied to title applications. I haven't the faintest idea of how this should be done, or indeed if USCF needs to place such oversight in place following Tannergate. P Innes, as usual, doesn't make any sort of argument one way or another other than waving his hands and screaming.   Date: 06 Apr 2008 18:15:13 From: The Historian Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed On Apr 6, 3:35 pm, samsloan <samhsl...@gmail.com > wrote: > On Apr 6, 2:02 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: > > > > > Chess One wrote: > > > "samsloan" <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:9557df57-d941-4098-a3e1-607eca688249@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > > >> On Apr 6, 10:16 am, "Chess One" <OneCh...@comcast.net> wrote: > > > >>> Ken Sloan's administration of the USCF rating department occassioned a > > >>> board > > >>> member to resign! That's not false. > > > >> I am really curious. I have never heard this one before. > > > >> What board member resigned, and why? > > > > I am not mentioning his name, since there is no need to celebrate the > > > fallen - and indeed he seems to have acted on very bad advice to accept a > > > title. But what of the responsibility of those awarding the title? > > > > But this player was on the board preceeding yours, and the crime was for > > > ratings rigging - so that he played the same half dozen players in closed > > > tournaments, and they all rated 1650/1800 - thereby he gained a point or two > > > at a time. I am not sure he ever played anyone 2200 or above. > > > > At the time everyone was shocked he should have done so, yet 2 USCF > > > departments allowed (a) him to continue accumulating points this way [that's > > > the rating dept], and (b) then another department made him a life-master > > > with a ratings floor. Neither of them seem to notice his opponent's level of > > > play. > > > > I mention this particularly since the guy who egged him on and encouraged > > > him to apply for the title is a USCF Delegate, Eric Johnson, and the guy who > > > oversaw the ratings department is Ken Sloan, and this pair decided in YOUR > > > newsgroup to rubbish other companies ratings 'quality control', with all the > > > usual absense of detail, and abstract criticism. > > > > Ken Sloan has failed to assure anyone that this fault is not a common one at > > > USCF, therefore he never 'notices' my question, 'how frequently has this > > > happened', even though he assures us that all is OK. The only thing he has > > > ever responded with is the comment 'how do you know nothing has changed', > > > which is as mindless a piece of verbage as he could insult USCF's system > > > with, since the answer lies in his own inability and unwillingness to show > > > if anything changed. > > > > Why another department should also not have noticed such a prominent > > > ratings-account when giving the player a Masters award and a ratings floor > > > is also entirely 'unclear', except to say that he was a politico and into a > > > Fide postion... > > > > Makes a change to getting a watch. > > > > Phil Innes > > > >> Sam Sloan > > > Phil, > > > This incident is pretty interesting. Was it ever published in an > > investigative article that I could read on the net? I'd love to know > > more. If not, it sounds like an issue that deserves an investigation. > > -- > > > Cordially, > > Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. > > He is referring to Robert Tanner and that is not what happened at all. > > The whole story is at:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.politics/msg/376c468af... > > Basically Tanner created three fake personalities, all rated around > 2200-2300 and played Quads against them over and over again, thereby > raising his own rating to over 2300, giving himself a floor of 2200. > > The first fake person was Andre Peroit. The first rating of Andre > Peroit was a provisional 2356 in the 1992 > Wyoming National Parks RR in Jackson, Wyoming, directed by 'I'anner. > > He then created Milan Djiatlich and Leopold Rodl and played them over > and over, winning 31 consecutive games against Milan Djiatlich, who > supposedly was rated over 2300. > > None of this had anything to do with Ken Sloan or Eric Johnson. > > Sam Sloan Agreed. It's more P Innes drivel.   Date: 06 Apr 2008 18:13:24 From: The Historian Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed On Apr 6, 7:57 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net > wrote: > jeremy.p.spin...@vanderbilt.edu wrote: > > This was the incident which I praised Sam for in an earlier post. It > > is amazing that this could be summarized as a case where a board > > member was forced to resign because of a dispute with the rating > > committee. This was a pure and simple case of ratings fraud. There is > > nobody at fault here except for the board member. > > > It is easy to say that the ratings committee should catch this, but > > very hard in practice. There are too many pieces of data coming in to > > check whether every one is legitimiate. The rating committee's chief > > job is to set up a good system, not to police it. Every rating system > > can be manipulated by a cheater placed in a position of trust. It is > > rare for a TD to cheat in this way; unfortunately, it is not the only > > case. I do not hold the rating system or the rating committee at > > fault, just as I would not hold the national basketball league at > > fault if a referee is found to be in the pay of gamblers. The fault is > > all on the trusted individual. > > > For those who tout FIDE's superiority in all things, FIDE has had > > ratings manipulations schemes as well. In this case, Sam did a good > > job exposing a cheater; blaming it on anybody but the cheater (in > > particular, making it seem like the cheater was a victim!) is a very > > strange way of looking at the case. > > > Jerry Spinrad > > > On Apr 6, 3:50 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: > >> samsloan wrote: > >>> On Apr 6, 2:02 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: > >>>> Chess One wrote: > >>>>> "samsloan" <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote in message > >>>>>news:9557df57-d941-4098-a3e1-607eca688249@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>> On Apr 6, 10:16 am, "Chess One" <OneCh...@comcast.net> wrote: > >>>>>>> Ken Sloan's administration of the USCF rating department occassioned a > >>>>>>> board > >>>>>>> member to resign! That's not false. > >>>>>> I am really curious. I have never heard this one before. > >>>>>> What board member resigned, and why? > >>>>> I am not mentioning his name, since there is no need to celebrate the > >>>>> fallen - and indeed he seems to have acted on very bad advice to accept a > >>>>> title. But what of the responsibility of those awarding the title? > >>>>> But this player was on the board preceeding yours, and the crime was for > >>>>> ratings rigging - so that he played the same half dozen players in closed > >>>>> tournaments, and they all rated 1650/1800 - thereby he gained a point or two > >>>>> at a time. I am not sure he ever played anyone 2200 or above. > >>>>> At the time everyone was shocked he should have done so, yet 2 USCF > >>>>> departments allowed (a) him to continue accumulating points this way [that's > >>>>> the rating dept], and (b) then another department made him a life-master > >>>>> with a ratings floor. Neither of them seem to notice his opponent's level of > >>>>> play. > >>>>> I mention this particularly since the guy who egged him on and encouraged > >>>>> him to apply for the title is a USCF Delegate, Eric Johnson, and the guy who > >>>>> oversaw the ratings department is Ken Sloan, and this pair decided in YOUR > >>>>> newsgroup to rubbish other companies ratings 'quality control', with all the > >>>>> usual absense of detail, and abstract criticism. > >>>>> Ken Sloan has failed to assure anyone that this fault is not a common one at > >>>>> USCF, therefore he never 'notices' my question, 'how frequently has this > >>>>> happened', even though he assures us that all is OK. The only thing he has > >>>>> ever responded with is the comment 'how do you know nothing has changed', > >>>>> which is as mindless a piece of verbage as he could insult USCF's system > >>>>> with, since the answer lies in his own inability and unwillingness to show > >>>>> if anything changed. > >>>>> Why another department should also not have noticed such a prominent > >>>>> ratings-account when giving the player a Masters award and a ratings floor > >>>>> is also entirely 'unclear', except to say that he was a politico and into a > >>>>> Fide postion... > >>>>> Makes a change to getting a watch. > >>>>> Phil Innes > >>>>>> Sam Sloan > >>>> Phil, > >>>> This incident is pretty interesting. Was it ever published in an > >>>> investigative article that I could read on the net? I'd love to know > >>>> more. If not, it sounds like an issue that deserves an investigation. > >>>> -- > >>>> Cordially, > >>>> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. > >>> He is referring to Robert Tanner and that is not what happened at all. > >>> The whole story is at: > >>>http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.politics/msg/376c468af... > >>> Basically Tanner created three fake personalities, all rated around > >>> 2200-2300 and played Quads against them over and over again, thereby > >>> raising his own rating to over 2300, giving himself a floor of 2200. > >>> The first fake person was Andre Peroit. The first rating of Andre > >>> Peroit was a provisional 2356 in the 1992 > >>> Wyoming National Parks RR in Jackson, Wyoming, directed by 'I'anner. > >>> He then created Milan Djiatlich and Leopold Rodl and played them over > >>> and over, winning 31 consecutive games against Milan Djiatlich, who > >>> supposedly was rated over 2300. > >>> None of this had anything to do with Ken Sloan or Eric Johnson. > >>> Sam Sloan > >> Sam, > > >> Thanks for the reply and the link Sam. I am going to once again sail > >> upon troubled waters by saying that this complaint on the surface > >> appears to be very detailed and consequently the product of much > >> research. If it is all accurate, then, /I am impressed with your > >> research skills in this instance./ > > >> However, your critics suggest that your facts and conclusions are to be > >> generally regarded as suspect. Since this is a past event perhaps > >> someone else has put in as much or more work to dig out the facts of > >> this event. Is there any thing else I can read to possibly balance the > >> reportage of this event? > > >> What exactly happened after you lodged this complaint? > >> -- > > >> Cordially, > >> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > I have spent quite a few hours today searching around the Web based on > the search terms "USCF Ratings scandal." There has been lots to read. > One thing is noticeable by its absence -- An official account of the > Tanner scandal by the USCF. I see where the man was charged, where he > eventually apologized, and where he resigned -- then nothing. Perhaps > the official report is confined in some members-only area of the USCF > web site which I will never see, because I am not going to rejoin... > > I notice that Mr. Tanner is still directing tournaments and playing in > them. The tournament cross table I looked at showed him getting a bye > then drawing a game and then forfeiting two games. As he was the Asst. > TD perhaps he only joined to round out the number of players... > > Meanwhile... I encountered this statement at Mig Greengard's blog in an > old entry dated July 10, 2006. "That Michigan Class A player who > allegedly cheated in Philly is facing perhaps very serious sanctions > such as a lifetime ban from playing in USCF tournaments." Consider the > fairness of the sanctions between these two cases... > -- > > Cordially, > Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. Let's see. You 'can't find' a report on possible sanctions against Tanner, so you conclude one doesn't exist. You bring up a speculative new report from a blog posting by someone outside of the USCF and draw a comparison between it and what you can't find for Tanner based solely on what MAY happen at some point. And all this in defense of drivel P Innes posted about Dr. Sloan. No wonder you find Sam Sloan's research skills 'fierce.'     Date: 06 Apr 2008 18:22:35 From: J.D. Walker Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed The Historian wrote: > On Apr 6, 7:57 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: >> jeremy.p.spin...@vanderbilt.edu wrote: >>> This was the incident which I praised Sam for in an earlier post. It >>> is amazing that this could be summarized as a case where a board >>> member was forced to resign because of a dispute with the rating >>> committee. This was a pure and simple case of ratings fraud. There is >>> nobody at fault here except for the board member. >>> It is easy to say that the ratings committee should catch this, but >>> very hard in practice. There are too many pieces of data coming in to >>> check whether every one is legitimiate. The rating committee's chief >>> job is to set up a good system, not to police it. Every rating system >>> can be manipulated by a cheater placed in a position of trust. It is >>> rare for a TD to cheat in this way; unfortunately, it is not the only >>> case. I do not hold the rating system or the rating committee at >>> fault, just as I would not hold the national basketball league at >>> fault if a referee is found to be in the pay of gamblers. The fault is >>> all on the trusted individual. >>> For those who tout FIDE's superiority in all things, FIDE has had >>> ratings manipulations schemes as well. In this case, Sam did a good >>> job exposing a cheater; blaming it on anybody but the cheater (in >>> particular, making it seem like the cheater was a victim!) is a very >>> strange way of looking at the case. >>> Jerry Spinrad >>> On Apr 6, 3:50 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>> samsloan wrote: >>>>> On Apr 6, 2:02 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>> Chess One wrote: >>>>>>> "samsloan" <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:9557df57-d941-4098-a3e1-607eca688249@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>> On Apr 6, 10:16 am, "Chess One" <OneCh...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Ken Sloan's administration of the USCF rating department occassioned a >>>>>>>>> board >>>>>>>>> member to resign! That's not false. >>>>>>>> I am really curious. I have never heard this one before. >>>>>>>> What board member resigned, and why? >>>>>>> I am not mentioning his name, since there is no need to celebrate the >>>>>>> fallen - and indeed he seems to have acted on very bad advice to accept a >>>>>>> title. But what of the responsibility of those awarding the title? >>>>>>> But this player was on the board preceeding yours, and the crime was for >>>>>>> ratings rigging - so that he played the same half dozen players in closed >>>>>>> tournaments, and they all rated 1650/1800 - thereby he gained a point or two >>>>>>> at a time. I am not sure he ever played anyone 2200 or above. >>>>>>> At the time everyone was shocked he should have done so, yet 2 USCF >>>>>>> departments allowed (a) him to continue accumulating points this way [that's >>>>>>> the rating dept], and (b) then another department made him a life-master >>>>>>> with a ratings floor. Neither of them seem to notice his opponent's level of >>>>>>> play. >>>>>>> I mention this particularly since the guy who egged him on and encouraged >>>>>>> him to apply for the title is a USCF Delegate, Eric Johnson, and the guy who >>>>>>> oversaw the ratings department is Ken Sloan, and this pair decided in YOUR >>>>>>> newsgroup to rubbish other companies ratings 'quality control', with all the >>>>>>> usual absense of detail, and abstract criticism. >>>>>>> Ken Sloan has failed to assure anyone that this fault is not a common one at >>>>>>> USCF, therefore he never 'notices' my question, 'how frequently has this >>>>>>> happened', even though he assures us that all is OK. The only thing he has >>>>>>> ever responded with is the comment 'how do you know nothing has changed', >>>>>>> which is as mindless a piece of verbage as he could insult USCF's system >>>>>>> with, since the answer lies in his own inability and unwillingness to show >>>>>>> if anything changed. >>>>>>> Why another department should also not have noticed such a prominent >>>>>>> ratings-account when giving the player a Masters award and a ratings floor >>>>>>> is also entirely 'unclear', except to say that he was a politico and into a >>>>>>> Fide postion... >>>>>>> Makes a change to getting a watch. >>>>>>> Phil Innes >>>>>>>> Sam Sloan >>>>>> Phil, >>>>>> This incident is pretty interesting. Was it ever published in an >>>>>> investigative article that I could read on the net? I'd love to know >>>>>> more. If not, it sounds like an issue that deserves an investigation. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Cordially, >>>>>> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. >>>>> He is referring to Robert Tanner and that is not what happened at all. >>>>> The whole story is at: >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.politics/msg/376c468af... >>>>> Basically Tanner created three fake personalities, all rated around >>>>> 2200-2300 and played Quads against them over and over again, thereby >>>>> raising his own rating to over 2300, giving himself a floor of 2200. >>>>> The first fake person was Andre Peroit. The first rating of Andre >>>>> Peroit was a provisional 2356 in the 1992 >>>>> Wyoming National Parks RR in Jackson, Wyoming, directed by 'I'anner. >>>>> He then created Milan Djiatlich and Leopold Rodl and played them over >>>>> and over, winning 31 consecutive games against Milan Djiatlich, who >>>>> supposedly was rated over 2300. >>>>> None of this had anything to do with Ken Sloan or Eric Johnson. >>>>> Sam Sloan >>>> Sam, >>>> Thanks for the reply and the link Sam. I am going to once again sail >>>> upon troubled waters by saying that this complaint on the surface >>>> appears to be very detailed and consequently the product of much >>>> research. If it is all accurate, then, /I am impressed with your >>>> research skills in this instance./ >>>> However, your critics suggest that your facts and conclusions are to be >>>> generally regarded as suspect. Since this is a past event perhaps >>>> someone else has put in as much or more work to dig out the facts of >>>> this event. Is there any thing else I can read to possibly balance the >>>> reportage of this event? >>>> What exactly happened after you lodged this complaint? >>>> -- >>>> Cordially, >>>> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >> I have spent quite a few hours today searching around the Web based on >> the search terms "USCF Ratings scandal." There has been lots to read. >> One thing is noticeable by its absence -- An official account of the >> Tanner scandal by the USCF. I see where the man was charged, where he >> eventually apologized, and where he resigned -- then nothing. Perhaps >> the official report is confined in some members-only area of the USCF >> web site which I will never see, because I am not going to rejoin... >> >> I notice that Mr. Tanner is still directing tournaments and playing in >> them. The tournament cross table I looked at showed him getting a bye >> then drawing a game and then forfeiting two games. As he was the Asst. >> TD perhaps he only joined to round out the number of players... >> >> Meanwhile... I encountered this statement at Mig Greengard's blog in an >> old entry dated July 10, 2006. "That Michigan Class A player who >> allegedly cheated in Philly is facing perhaps very serious sanctions >> such as a lifetime ban from playing in USCF tournaments." Consider the >> fairness of the sanctions between these two cases... >> -- >> >> Cordially, >> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. > > Let's see. You 'can't find' a report on possible sanctions against > Tanner, so you conclude one doesn't exist. No, I did not conclude... I indicated that I could not find it. You bring up a speculative > new report from a blog posting by someone outside of the USCF and draw > a comparison between it and what you can't find for Tanner based > solely on what MAY happen at some point. I asked people to consider the fairness involved in the sanctions that were mentioned in both cases. If you don't want to fine. Don't. And all this in defense of > drivel P Innes posted about Dr. Sloan. No wonder you find Sam Sloan's > research skills 'fierce.' I am not defending Sam Sloan, Phil Innes, Mr. Spinrad, Ken Sloan, David Kane, or you. I am simply trying to inquire and learn some things. Do you have anything informative or useful to contribute to this thread? -- Cordially, Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.       Date: 07 Apr 2008 19:55:26 From: Guy Macon Subject: Posting hints J.D. Walker wrote: >Do you have anything informative or useful to contribute to this thread? I do! :) Posting hints Here are some references for those who are interested in improving the quality of their posts to newsgroups: --------------------------- How do I quote correctly in usenet? http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html Quoting Style in Newsgroup Postings http://www.xs4all.nl/%7ewijnands/nnq/nquote.html How do I quote correctly in Usenet? - Quoting and Answering http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/brox.html Common Mistakes in Usenet Postings and How to Avoid Them http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/mail-news-errors.html Quoting and Answering http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/posting-rules/part1/ How should I react to crackpot messages? http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/crackpot.html How should I react to abusive postings or email? http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/abusive.html How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html The power of negative thinking: how to excel without doing anything http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html Netiquette: "When thou enter a city, abide by its customs." http://www.montebello.k12.ca.us/Resources/Roadmap/map07.html Zen and the art of the internet (usenet section) http://www.cs.indiana.edu/docproject/zen/zen-1.0_6.html Why you shouldn't ask for E-mail responses on Usenet http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/mail-responses.html The Word Made Flesh http://www.hoboes.com/html/NetLife/Joy/TheWordMadeFlesh.html Why bottom-posting is better than top-posting http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html +What do you mean "my reply is upside-down"? http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/quote.html Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes with this automated fix! http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/ For the Engineer/Programmer: News related RFCs and Drafts http://www.tin.org/docs.html I hope this helps...   Date: 06 Apr 2008 16:11:47 From: jeremy.p.spinrad@vanderbilt.edu Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed This was the incident which I praised Sam for in an earlier post. It is amazing that this could be summarized as a case where a board member was forced to resign because of a dispute with the rating committee. This was a pure and simple case of ratings fraud. There is nobody at fault here except for the board member. It is easy to say that the ratings committee should catch this, but very hard in practice. There are too many pieces of data coming in to check whether every one is legitimiate. The rating committee's chief job is to set up a good system, not to police it. Every rating system can be manipulated by a cheater placed in a position of trust. It is rare for a TD to cheat in this way; unfortunately, it is not the only case. I do not hold the rating system or the rating committee at fault, just as I would not hold the national basketball league at fault if a referee is found to be in the pay of gamblers. The fault is all on the trusted individual. For those who tout FIDE's superiority in all things, FIDE has had ratings manipulations schemes as well. In this case, Sam did a good job exposing a cheater; blaming it on anybody but the cheater (in particular, making it seem like the cheater was a victim!) is a very strange way of looking at the case. Jerry Spinrad On Apr 6, 3:50=A0pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net > wrote: > samsloan wrote: > > On Apr 6, 2:02 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: > >> Chess One wrote: > >>> "samsloan" <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote in message > >>>news:9557df57-d941-4098-a3e1-607eca688249@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com.= .. > >>>> On Apr 6, 10:16 am, "Chess One" <OneCh...@comcast.net> wrote: > >>>>> Ken Sloan's administration of the USCF rating department occassioned= a > >>>>> board > >>>>> member to resign! That's not false. > >>>> I am really curious. I have never heard this one before. > >>>> What board member resigned, and why? > >>> I am not mentioning his name, since there is no need to celebrate the > >>> fallen - and indeed he seems to have acted on very bad advice to accep= t a > >>> title. But what of the responsibility of those awarding the title? > >>> But this player was on the board preceeding yours, and the crime was f= or > >>> ratings rigging - so that he played the same half dozen players in clo= sed > >>> tournaments, and they all rated 1650/1800 - thereby he gained a point = or two > >>> at a time. I am not sure he ever played anyone 2200 or above. > >>> At the time everyone was shocked he should have done so, yet 2 USCF > >>> departments allowed (a) him to continue accumulating points this way [= that's > >>> the rating dept], and (b) then another department made him a life-mast= er > >>> with a ratings floor. Neither of them seem to notice his opponent's le= vel of > >>> play. > >>> I mention this particularly since the guy who egged him on and encoura= ged > >>> him to apply for the title is a USCF Delegate, Eric Johnson, and the g= uy who > >>> oversaw the ratings department is Ken Sloan, and this pair decided in = YOUR > >>> newsgroup to rubbish other companies ratings 'quality control', with a= ll the > >>> usual absense of detail, and abstract criticism. > >>> Ken Sloan has failed to assure anyone that this fault is not a common = one at > >>> USCF, therefore he never 'notices' my question, 'how frequently has th= is > >>> happened', even though he assures us that all is OK. The only thing he= has > >>> ever responded with is the comment 'how do you know nothing has change= d', > >>> which is as mindless a piece of verbage as he could insult USCF's syst= em > >>> with, since the answer lies in his own inability and unwillingness to = show > >>> if anything changed. > >>> Why another department should also not have noticed such a prominent > >>> ratings-account when giving the player a Masters award and a ratings f= loor > >>> is also entirely 'unclear', except to say that he was a politico and i= nto a > >>> Fide postion... > >>> Makes a change to getting a watch. > >>> Phil Innes > >>>> Sam Sloan > >> Phil, > > >> This incident is pretty interesting. =A0Was it ever published in an > >> investigative article that I could read on the net? =A0I'd love to know= > >> more. =A0If not, it sounds like an issue that deserves an investigation= . > >> -- > > >> Cordially, > >> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. > > > He is referring to Robert Tanner and that is not what happened at all. > > > The whole story is at: > >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.politics/msg/376c468af... > > > Basically Tanner created three fake personalities, all rated around > > 2200-2300 and played Quads against them over and over again, thereby > > raising his own rating to over 2300, giving himself a floor of 2200. > > > The first fake person was Andre Peroit. The first rating of Andre > > Peroit was a provisional 2356 in the 1992 > > Wyoming National Parks RR in Jackson, Wyoming, directed by 'I'anner. > > > He then created Milan Djiatlich and Leopold Rodl and played them over > > and over, winning 31 consecutive games against =A0Milan Djiatlich, who > > supposedly was rated over 2300. > > > None of this had anything to do with Ken Sloan or Eric Johnson. > > > Sam Sloan > > Sam, > > Thanks for the reply and the link Sam. =A0I am going to once again sail > upon troubled waters by saying that this complaint on the surface > appears to be very detailed and consequently the product of much > research. =A0If it is all accurate, then, /I am impressed with your > research skills in this instance./ > > However, your critics suggest that your facts and conclusions are to be > generally regarded as suspect. =A0Since this is a past event perhaps > someone else has put in as much or more work to dig out the facts of > this event. =A0Is there any thing else I can read to possibly balance the > reportage of this event? > > What exactly happened after you lodged this complaint? > -- > > Cordially, > Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -     Date: 07 Apr 2008 07:21:32 From: Chess One Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed <jeremy.p.spinrad@vanderbilt.edu > wrote in message news:49d2e00f-24c5-4de3-b02f-0e3f49f783f4@m71g2000hse.googlegroups.com... This was the incident which I praised Sam for in an earlier post. It is amazing that this could be summarized as a case where a board member was forced to resign because of a dispute with the rating committee. This was a pure and simple case of ratings fraud. There is nobody at fault here except for the board member. It is easy to say that the ratings committee should catch this, but very hard in practice. ** I didn't say the committee should catch anything - I indicated the committee supervises paid staff and that a committee member was criticising other ratings agencies in the US for their poor QC - and given these circumstances of no explanation for Tanner's award, this was pure hypocracy. ** What we don't understand is if there is any QC at USCF, since the ratings department seem not to notice this instance, the ratings committee seem not to invigilate even those attaining a title and a ratings floor [lol] - AND yet another department who grants the title ALSO not even looking at the player record. ** Therefore my questions to Ken Sloan were (a) who IS responsible for QC, and (b) how many OTHERS are there like this? ** Of course the board member was at fault, but 'blame' doesn't seem appropriate, which is merely scapegoating an individual for what is both individual and systemic error. As we see, this person continues to be a TD, which means he continues to have to do with the ratings system which seems to stem from a 'deal' made with Bill Goichberg, who, as many people know, also runs tournaments. ** The Answers to (a) and (b) above are unknown, and the gnomic responses by Ken Sloan further confound things - since the implications are that he cannot address the issues, and that therefore no investigation has taken place into how many others, no procedures put in place to prevent further abuse, and that the same situation can occur tomorrow. ** Perhaps Jerry Spinrad is correct, and it is impossible to do so - which is all thet Ken Sloan would need state - but then at least we understand what QC is in place in the national ratings system, which is to say, none at all. Phil Innes There are too many pieces of data coming in to check whether every one is legitimiate. The rating committee's chief job is to set up a good system, not to police it. Every rating system can be manipulated by a cheater placed in a position of trust. It is rare for a TD to cheat in this way; unfortunately, it is not the only case. I do not hold the rating system or the rating committee at fault, just as I would not hold the national basketball league at fault if a referee is found to be in the pay of gamblers. The fault is all on the trusted individual. For those who tout FIDE's superiority in all things, FIDE has had ratings manipulations schemes as well. In this case, Sam did a good job exposing a cheater; blaming it on anybody but the cheater (in particular, making it seem like the cheater was a victim!) is a very strange way of looking at the case. Jerry Spinrad On Apr 6, 3:50 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net > wrote: > samsloan wrote: > > On Apr 6, 2:02 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: > >> Chess One wrote: > >>> "samsloan" <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote in message > >>>news:9557df57-d941-4098-a3e1-607eca688249@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > >>>> On Apr 6, 10:16 am, "Chess One" <OneCh...@comcast.net> wrote: > >>>>> Ken Sloan's administration of the USCF rating department occassioned > >>>>> a > >>>>> board > >>>>> member to resign! That's not false. > >>>> I am really curious. I have never heard this one before. > >>>> What board member resigned, and why? > >>> I am not mentioning his name, since there is no need to celebrate the > >>> fallen - and indeed he seems to have acted on very bad advice to > >>> accept a > >>> title. But what of the responsibility of those awarding the title? > >>> But this player was on the board preceeding yours, and the crime was > >>> for > >>> ratings rigging - so that he played the same half dozen players in > >>> closed > >>> tournaments, and they all rated 1650/1800 - thereby he gained a point > >>> or two > >>> at a time. I am not sure he ever played anyone 2200 or above. > >>> At the time everyone was shocked he should have done so, yet 2 USCF > >>> departments allowed (a) him to continue accumulating points this way > >>> [that's > >>> the rating dept], and (b) then another department made him a > >>> life-master > >>> with a ratings floor. Neither of them seem to notice his opponent's > >>> level of > >>> play. > >>> I mention this particularly since the guy who egged him on and > >>> encouraged > >>> him to apply for the title is a USCF Delegate, Eric Johnson, and the > >>> guy who > >>> oversaw the ratings department is Ken Sloan, and this pair decided in > >>> YOUR > >>> newsgroup to rubbish other companies ratings 'quality control', with > >>> all the > >>> usual absense of detail, and abstract criticism. > >>> Ken Sloan has failed to assure anyone that this fault is not a common > >>> one at > >>> USCF, therefore he never 'notices' my question, 'how frequently has > >>> this > >>> happened', even though he assures us that all is OK. The only thing he > >>> has > >>> ever responded with is the comment 'how do you know nothing has > >>> changed', > >>> which is as mindless a piece of verbage as he could insult USCF's > >>> system > >>> with, since the answer lies in his own inability and unwillingness to > >>> show > >>> if anything changed. > >>> Why another department should also not have noticed such a prominent > >>> ratings-account when giving the player a Masters award and a ratings > >>> floor > >>> is also entirely 'unclear', except to say that he was a politico and > >>> into a > >>> Fide postion... > >>> Makes a change to getting a watch. > >>> Phil Innes > >>>> Sam Sloan > >> Phil, > > >> This incident is pretty interesting. Was it ever published in an > >> investigative article that I could read on the net? I'd love to know > >> more. If not, it sounds like an issue that deserves an investigation. > >> -- > > >> Cordially, > >> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. > > > He is referring to Robert Tanner and that is not what happened at all. > > > The whole story is at: > >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.politics/msg/376c468af... > > > Basically Tanner created three fake personalities, all rated around > > 2200-2300 and played Quads against them over and over again, thereby > > raising his own rating to over 2300, giving himself a floor of 2200. > > > The first fake person was Andre Peroit. The first rating of Andre > > Peroit was a provisional 2356 in the 1992 > > Wyoming National Parks RR in Jackson, Wyoming, directed by 'I'anner. > > > He then created Milan Djiatlich and Leopold Rodl and played them over > > and over, winning 31 consecutive games against Milan Djiatlich, who > > supposedly was rated over 2300. > > > None of this had anything to do with Ken Sloan or Eric Johnson. > > > Sam Sloan > > Sam, > > Thanks for the reply and the link Sam. I am going to once again sail > upon troubled waters by saying that this complaint on the surface > appears to be very detailed and consequently the product of much > research. If it is all accurate, then, /I am impressed with your > research skills in this instance./ > > However, your critics suggest that your facts and conclusions are to be > generally regarded as suspect. Since this is a past event perhaps > someone else has put in as much or more work to dig out the facts of > this event. Is there any thing else I can read to possibly balance the > reportage of this event? > > What exactly happened after you lodged this complaint? > -- > > Cordially, > Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -       Date: 07 Apr 2008 12:01:16 From: Kenneth Sloan Subject: Re: f49f783f4@m71g2000hse.googlegroups.com> the > committee supervises paid staff False. -- Kenneth Sloan KennethRSloan@gmail.com Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213 University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473 Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://KennethRSloan.com/       Date: 07 Apr 2008 08:04:38 From: Chess One Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed "Chess One" <OneChess@comcast.net > wrote in message news:Bc-dnV60o70jnmfanZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@comcast.com... > > <jeremy.p.spinrad@vanderbilt.edu> wrote in message > news:49d2e00f-24c5-4de3-b02f-0e3f49f783f4@m71g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > There are too many pieces of data coming in to > check whether every one is legitimiate. The rating committee's chief > job is to set up a good system, not to police it. Every rating system > can be manipulated by a cheater placed in a position of trust. It is > rare for a TD to cheat in this way; unfortunately, it is not the only > case. Just to restate my original emphasis which is quite different though not in conflict from that of Sam Sloan who discovered the error, and in fact was able to partially correct it. It is the partiality of the fix which is the on-going issue. So much at USCF seems based entirely at a personality level played among its own burocrats, that the system itself does not change, but simply continues after a stumble with new characters in place. My question to Dr. Sloan is what /systemic/ investigations and remedies were enacted after this instance, which, as Jerry Spinrad points out, are /not/ unique circumstances. But replies by apologists of the system continue to cast their statements in terms of what is not possible to do - eg, not to 'police' the 'good' system. So whose job is it to 'police' or provide any level of invigilation over the ratings system? Is that not part of the 'good' system? The series of null responses, and the absense of positive declaratory statements by Ken Sloan himself, indicate that the 'good' system has no apparent quality police. Randy Bauer's pre-election statements at Chessville [2 sets of them] stressed asking people at USCF to be responsible for what they do, and to effect checks and balances on work. When I asked him directly to address this issue, and also another rather larger issue, he declared to me that since it was before his time of office, then it is not his brief to address it. Paul Truong has also asked after other issues to do with corporate behavior, and not received any board support with the obvious exception of GM Polgar, and sometimes Joel Channing. This personality approach rather skates over the problem, which is that it is a /continuous/ problem. Not the least of which is that we now learn that someone with a 20 year record of submitting peculiar individual results, who resigned a baord seat specifically on this issue, is still in a position as TD to influence the games of others. But let us not beat on the unfortunate Mr. Tanner. I do not see any attention has been paid to the nations rating system, even after this instance, and even to the extent that Jerry Spinrad has to apologise for Ken Sloan's 'good' system by admitting that quality invigilation is absent from it. Just think! This person attained a national title, a ratings floor, and no one seemed to have looked at even /this/ record. I feel my critique is entirely valid in suspecting that nothing whatever happened at USCF in terms of its systemic behavior as result of this cheating - and that is all I want to establish - I have no interest in persecuting Tanner, nor Dr. Sloan, nor have any personality animus - its the RATINGS issue which is important, and I conclude that it is as compromised as could be speculated upon - all the heat of the issue being of personalities, and nothing to impersonal resolution. That is what super sleuth Sam Sloan's activity is inadequate - which is not to necessarily critcise Sloan, after all, there were other board members, paid staff, and countless committee members also engaged and knowledgeable of this issue. Phil Innes > I do not hold the rating system or the rating committee at > fault, just as I would not hold the national basketball league at > fault if a referee is found to be in the pay of gamblers. The fault is > all on the trusted individual. > > For those who tout FIDE's superiority in all things, FIDE has had > ratings manipulations schemes as well. In this case, Sam did a good > job exposing a cheater; blaming it on anybody but the cheater (in > particular, making it seem like the cheater was a victim!) is a very > strange way of looking at the case. > > Jerry Spinrad > > On Apr 6, 3:50 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: >> samsloan wrote: >> > On Apr 6, 2:02 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> Chess One wrote: >> >>> "samsloan" <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote in message >> >>>news:9557df57-d941-4098-a3e1-607eca688249@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >> >>>> On Apr 6, 10:16 am, "Chess One" <OneCh...@comcast.net> wrote: >> >>>>> Ken Sloan's administration of the USCF rating department >> >>>>> occassioned a >> >>>>> board >> >>>>> member to resign! That's not false. >> >>>> I am really curious. I have never heard this one before. >> >>>> What board member resigned, and why? >> >>> I am not mentioning his name, since there is no need to celebrate the >> >>> fallen - and indeed he seems to have acted on very bad advice to >> >>> accept a >> >>> title. But what of the responsibility of those awarding the title? >> >>> But this player was on the board preceeding yours, and the crime was >> >>> for >> >>> ratings rigging - so that he played the same half dozen players in >> >>> closed >> >>> tournaments, and they all rated 1650/1800 - thereby he gained a point >> >>> or two >> >>> at a time. I am not sure he ever played anyone 2200 or above. >> >>> At the time everyone was shocked he should have done so, yet 2 USCF >> >>> departments allowed (a) him to continue accumulating points this way >> >>> [that's >> >>> the rating dept], and (b) then another department made him a >> >>> life-master >> >>> with a ratings floor. Neither of them seem to notice his opponent's >> >>> level of >> >>> play. >> >>> I mention this particularly since the guy who egged him on and >> >>> encouraged >> >>> him to apply for the title is a USCF Delegate, Eric Johnson, and the >> >>> guy who >> >>> oversaw the ratings department is Ken Sloan, and this pair decided in >> >>> YOUR >> >>> newsgroup to rubbish other companies ratings 'quality control', with >> >>> all the >> >>> usual absense of detail, and abstract criticism. >> >>> Ken Sloan has failed to assure anyone that this fault is not a common >> >>> one at >> >>> USCF, therefore he never 'notices' my question, 'how frequently has >> >>> this >> >>> happened', even though he assures us that all is OK. The only thing >> >>> he has >> >>> ever responded with is the comment 'how do you know nothing has >> >>> changed', >> >>> which is as mindless a piece of verbage as he could insult USCF's >> >>> system >> >>> with, since the answer lies in his own inability and unwillingness to >> >>> show >> >>> if anything changed. >> >>> Why another department should also not have noticed such a prominent >> >>> ratings-account when giving the player a Masters award and a ratings >> >>> floor >> >>> is also entirely 'unclear', except to say that he was a politico and >> >>> into a >> >>> Fide postion... >> >>> Makes a change to getting a watch. >> >>> Phil Innes >> >>>> Sam Sloan >> >> Phil, >> >> >> This incident is pretty interesting. Was it ever published in an >> >> investigative article that I could read on the net? I'd love to know >> >> more. If not, it sounds like an issue that deserves an investigation. >> >> -- >> >> >> Cordially, >> >> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. >> >> > He is referring to Robert Tanner and that is not what happened at all. >> >> > The whole story is at: >> >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.politics/msg/376c468af... >> >> > Basically Tanner created three fake personalities, all rated around >> > 2200-2300 and played Quads against them over and over again, thereby >> > raising his own rating to over 2300, giving himself a floor of 2200. >> >> > The first fake person was Andre Peroit. The first rating of Andre >> > Peroit was a provisional 2356 in the 1992 >> > Wyoming National Parks RR in Jackson, Wyoming, directed by 'I'anner. >> >> > He then created Milan Djiatlich and Leopold Rodl and played them over >> > and over, winning 31 consecutive games against Milan Djiatlich, who >> > supposedly was rated over 2300. >> >> > None of this had anything to do with Ken Sloan or Eric Johnson. >> >> > Sam Sloan >> >> Sam, >> >> Thanks for the reply and the link Sam. I am going to once again sail >> upon troubled waters by saying that this complaint on the surface >> appears to be very detailed and consequently the product of much >> research. If it is all accurate, then, /I am impressed with your >> research skills in this instance./ >> >> However, your critics suggest that your facts and conclusions are to be >> generally regarded as suspect. Since this is a past event perhaps >> someone else has put in as much or more work to dig out the facts of >> this event. Is there any thing else I can read to possibly balance the >> reportage of this event? >> >> What exactly happened after you lodged this complaint? >> -- >> >> Cordially, >> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > >         Date: 07 Apr 2008 08:17:50 From: Chess One Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed I see that in support of this point about a lack of QC, Todd Miller wrote in Gambit blog yesterday: //Phil Innes Chess history has been destroyed. The ratings for past individuals (prior to 1990) have been destroyed. Some say it was an accident. Others say it was done to cover up false rating reports submitted by coaches to inflate their chess ratings in order to gain respect and money by claiming superior chess skills (e.g., I can coach you because I am a master). Goichberg weakened the title of chess master by claiming that anyone with a rating over 2200 (for only a few games) can call themselves a master for life. The original life master title was for 300 games over master. Of course, who is a life master has apparently been lost when other records were destroyed. Yet, when I requested a rating floor on the basis of my life master title it was given to me?? The USCF didn't ask me to send my certificate or any documentation whatsoever.     Date: 06 Apr 2008 17:57:57 From: J.D. Walker Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed jeremy.p.spinrad@vanderbilt.edu wrote: > This was the incident which I praised Sam for in an earlier post. It > is amazing that this could be summarized as a case where a board > member was forced to resign because of a dispute with the rating > committee. This was a pure and simple case of ratings fraud. There is > nobody at fault here except for the board member. > > It is easy to say that the ratings committee should catch this, but > very hard in practice. There are too many pieces of data coming in to > check whether every one is legitimiate. The rating committee's chief > job is to set up a good system, not to police it. Every rating system > can be manipulated by a cheater placed in a position of trust. It is > rare for a TD to cheat in this way; unfortunately, it is not the only > case. I do not hold the rating system or the rating committee at > fault, just as I would not hold the national basketball league at > fault if a referee is found to be in the pay of gamblers. The fault is > all on the trusted individual. > > For those who tout FIDE's superiority in all things, FIDE has had > ratings manipulations schemes as well. In this case, Sam did a good > job exposing a cheater; blaming it on anybody but the cheater (in > particular, making it seem like the cheater was a victim!) is a very > strange way of looking at the case. > > Jerry Spinrad > > On Apr 6, 3:50 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: >> samsloan wrote: >>> On Apr 6, 2:02 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>> Chess One wrote: >>>>> "samsloan" <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:9557df57-d941-4098-a3e1-607eca688249@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> On Apr 6, 10:16 am, "Chess One" <OneCh...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>>> Ken Sloan's administration of the USCF rating department occassioned a >>>>>>> board >>>>>>> member to resign! That's not false. >>>>>> I am really curious. I have never heard this one before. >>>>>> What board member resigned, and why? >>>>> I am not mentioning his name, since there is no need to celebrate the >>>>> fallen - and indeed he seems to have acted on very bad advice to accept a >>>>> title. But what of the responsibility of those awarding the title? >>>>> But this player was on the board preceeding yours, and the crime was for >>>>> ratings rigging - so that he played the same half dozen players in closed >>>>> tournaments, and they all rated 1650/1800 - thereby he gained a point or two >>>>> at a time. I am not sure he ever played anyone 2200 or above. >>>>> At the time everyone was shocked he should have done so, yet 2 USCF >>>>> departments allowed (a) him to continue accumulating points this way [that's >>>>> the rating dept], and (b) then another department made him a life-master >>>>> with a ratings floor. Neither of them seem to notice his opponent's level of >>>>> play. >>>>> I mention this particularly since the guy who egged him on and encouraged >>>>> him to apply for the title is a USCF Delegate, Eric Johnson, and the guy who >>>>> oversaw the ratings department is Ken Sloan, and this pair decided in YOUR >>>>> newsgroup to rubbish other companies ratings 'quality control', with all the >>>>> usual absense of detail, and abstract criticism. >>>>> Ken Sloan has failed to assure anyone that this fault is not a common one at >>>>> USCF, therefore he never 'notices' my question, 'how frequently has this >>>>> happened', even though he assures us that all is OK. The only thing he has >>>>> ever responded with is the comment 'how do you know nothing has changed', >>>>> which is as mindless a piece of verbage as he could insult USCF's system >>>>> with, since the answer lies in his own inability and unwillingness to show >>>>> if anything changed. >>>>> Why another department should also not have noticed such a prominent >>>>> ratings-account when giving the player a Masters award and a ratings floor >>>>> is also entirely 'unclear', except to say that he was a politico and into a >>>>> Fide postion... >>>>> Makes a change to getting a watch. >>>>> Phil Innes >>>>>> Sam Sloan >>>> Phil, >>>> This incident is pretty interesting. Was it ever published in an >>>> investigative article that I could read on the net? I'd love to know >>>> more. If not, it sounds like an issue that deserves an investigation. >>>> -- >>>> Cordially, >>>> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C. >>> He is referring to Robert Tanner and that is not what happened at all. >>> The whole story is at: >>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.politics/msg/376c468af... >>> Basically Tanner created three fake personalities, all rated around >>> 2200-2300 and played Quads against them over and over again, thereby >>> raising his own rating to over 2300, giving himself a floor of 2200. >>> The first fake person was Andre Peroit. The first rating of Andre >>> Peroit was a provisional 2356 in the 1992 >>> Wyoming National Parks RR in Jackson, Wyoming, directed by 'I'anner. >>> He then created Milan Djiatlich and Leopold Rodl and played them over >>> and over, winning 31 consecutive games against Milan Djiatlich, who >>> supposedly was rated over 2300. >>> None of this had anything to do with Ken Sloan or Eric Johnson. >>> Sam Sloan >> Sam, >> >> Thanks for the reply and the link Sam. I am going to once again sail >> upon troubled waters by saying that this complaint on the surface >> appears to be very detailed and consequently the product of much >> research. If it is all accurate, then, /I am impressed with your >> research skills in this instance./ >> >> However, your critics suggest that your facts and conclusions are to be >> generally regarded as suspect. Since this is a past event perhaps >> someone else has put in as much or more work to dig out the facts of >> this event. Is there any thing else I can read to possibly balance the >> reportage of this event? >> >> What exactly happened after you lodged this complaint? >> -- >> >> Cordially, >> Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > I have spent quite a few hours today searching around the Web based on the search terms "USCF Ratings scandal." There has been lots to read. One thing is noticeable by its absence -- An official account of the Tanner scandal by the USCF. I see where the man was charged, where he eventually apologized, and where he resigned -- then nothing. Perhaps the official report is confined in some members-only area of the USCF web site which I will never see, because I am not going to rejoin... I notice that Mr. Tanner is still directing tournaments and playing in them. The tournament cross table I looked at showed him getting a bye then drawing a game and then forfeiting two games. As he was the Asst. TD perhaps he only joined to round out the number of players... Meanwhile... I encountered this statement at Mig Greengard's blog in an old entry dated July 10, 2006. "That Michigan Class A player who allegedly cheated in Philly is facing perhaps very serious sanctions such as a lifetime ban from playing in USCF tournaments." Consider the fairness of the sanctions between these two cases... -- Cordially, Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.   Date: 06 Apr 2008 13:35:46 From: samsloan Subject: Re: USCF ratings, nothing is revealed On Apr 6, 2:02 pm, "J.D. Walker" <j.d.wal...@comcast.net > wrote: > Chess One wrote: > > "samsloan" <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote in message > >news:9557df57-d941-4098-a3e1-607eca688249@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > >> On Apr 6, 10:16 am, "Chess One" <OneCh...@comcast.net> wrote: > > >>> Ken Sloan's administration of the USCF rating department occassioned a > >>> board > >>> member to resign! That's not false. > > >> I am really curious. I have never heard this one before. > > >> What board member resigned, and why? > > > I am not mentioning his name, since there is no need to celebrate the > > fallen - and indeed he seems to have acted on very bad advice to accept a > > title. But what of the responsibility of those awarding the title? > > > But this player was on the board preceeding yours, and the crime was for > > ratings rigging - so that he played the same half dozen players in closed > > tournaments, and they all rated 1650/1800 - thereby he gained a point or two > > at a time. I am not sure he ever played anyone 2200 or above. > > > At the time everyone was shocked he should have done so, yet 2 USCF > > departments allowed (a) him to continue accumulating points this way [that's > > the rating dept], and (b) then another department made him a life-master > > with a ratings floor. Neither of them seem to notice his opponent's level of > > play. > > > I mention this particularly since the guy who egged him on and encouraged > > him to apply for the title is a USCF Delegate, Eric Johnson, and the guy who > > oversaw the ratings department is Ken Sloan, and this pair decided in YOUR > > newsgroup to rubbis