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Date: 20 Jan 2009 00:02:12
From: help bot
Subject: Sanny and the world's strongest chess engine
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I have to say that I am almost /consistently/ having more
trouble with the GetClub beast now than before. In the old
days, I often won effortlessly, and though I desired to face
the highest levels, their deathly slowness was a powerful
force which pressed me toward playing the middle levels
instead.
But now, things have sped up a bit, and it seems reason-
able to face any but, say, the Advance level, without too
much waiting-torture. Unfortunately, I am now near the
tail end of a game, against one of the middle strength
levels, in which the program absolutely refuses to move.
I stubbornly refuse to click "resigns", and so the battle
rages... without progress.
Many rabid anti-Sanny talking heads have blasted his
confounded machine, for a number of different reasons.
Yet just recently, a fellow appeared, claiming that as
operator of Fidelity's Par Excellence -- a 2100 rated
USCF Expert -- he was having difficulty in claiming /a
draw/. Take that, you ninnies!
It's only one game, but still... there is no rational way to
explain this occurence, without admitting that Sanny's
crack programming team has somehow made significant
progress. The USCF Expert level is no small feat for a
program such as this-- one where the rules of chess are
not quite understood, and where ridiculous methods are
incorporated to try and compensate for glaring weaknes-
ses elsewhere.
I would say that the program is getting to be a fairly
dangerous tactician, though a careful defender should
have little trouble exploiting the program's awful endgame.
On screen, one may note that search depths (not comp-
arable to the displays of other programs) are beginning
to get scary-deep. In some cases, just looking at these
numbers can lead to a sense of hopelessness, if in a
losing position as often happens to me. How can I
expect to swindle a program that is looking all the way
to checkmate, one wonders. And yet it can be done, for
as the program entered endgame territory, it's strength
diminishes, and human judgment comes more into its
own.
This singular event, the drawing of a single game
against a known 2100-rated computer opponent, is a
landmark, make no mistake. Critics may point out that
GetClub spend a bit more time per move, or that maybe
it just got lucky; but they can no longer deny the fact
that in spite of all their emotional ranting, the GetClub
team is making serious headway, in spite of their utter
lack of chess knowledge. Chess is, after all, just a
complex excercise in math.
-- help bot
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Date: 21 Jan 2009 11:23:52
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Sanny and the world's strongest chess engine
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On Jan 20, 2:36=A0pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> > Stock Market is a Gamble you have equal chances of earning and
> > loosing. Do not waste your hard earned money in Stocks. I do not
> > advice anyone to play the Gamble.
Judging from the swill I receive almost daily in
my inbox, a typical stock guru would now write
up a piece in which he quotes himself, like so:
"Just yesterday I advised readers not to "gamble"
in stocks and I have already been proved right, as
the market was down 5% the very next day!"
> =A0 Over the short term, owning stocks can be
> like riding a roller coaster;
Or like this:
"Just as I predicted yesterday, the markets
went downhill, like a wild rollercoaster ride."
Anything said which does not match-up with
recent events, is never mentioned. In this way,
virtually all the stock-picking gurus are shown
to be very smart, as well as superb prognos-
ticators, akin to Nostradamus.
I wonder if there is any true resemblance
between picking stocks and picking good
chess moves. Is, say, technical analysis
akin to looking for tactics? Are value inves-
tors the equivalent of those who mainly study
the endgame? What would that make a
player like Sam Sloan-- a day-trader who
speculates in foreign currencies?
-- help bot
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Date: 21 Jan 2009 11:09:15
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Sanny and the world's strongest chess engine
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On Jan 20, 10:41=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > > In case nothing works tell me I will remove the game.
Thank you for "removing" the game (which I was
clearly winning). It was one of my worst recent
efforts, and I was losing badly at one point in the
middle game; now, no one will ever know. ; >D
In my present game -- also against the Normal
level I believe -- I have once again achieved an
easily-won position in the endgame; and quite
predictably, the program has again locked up so
as not to let me score the point. Are *all* my
wins to be summarily "removed" in this same
manner? What about my losses and draws--
can I get those purged, to clean things up a bit?
I suppose that Sanny is well-aware of the fact
that GetClub's top-ranked player, Zebediah, has
never lost a game, except of course those in
which the GC program has obviously mal-
functioned. Imagine all those millions of site
visitors who go looking through hundreds of
Zeb's games, to see how he was beaten, only
to discover that he never really was beaten;
imagine their disillusionment... .
-- help bot
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Date: 20 Jan 2009 11:36:37
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Sanny and the world's strongest chess engine
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On Jan 20, 11:01=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > > I am a great Mathematician so I love Chess. If you want to solve any
> > > Maths formula call me. I will Charge $100 / solution.
> > =A0 If you can figure out a formula which
> > *accurately* predicts the stock market's
> > gyrations, let me know; maybe we can
> > work something out.
> Yes, I designed such software. But I have not tested it yet. It
> accurately figures out what will be the price of Stock tommorow.
> I am happy I did not use it. Else I would have lost a lot of money in
> Shares Market.
>
> My software predicts next days Stock values after seeing old values.
> It is correct only when the trend continues. If something wrong happen
> you may loose the money too. So You just provide me past values of
> stock and my program will suggest you the price it will have the next
> day.
So then, your program merely does what any
person with eyesight could do-- look at the past
price performance and project the trend-line
forward, assuming -- hoping -- that nothing
changes.
If you go to Yahoo! finance, or any of the other
financial Web sites for that matter, you can, for
free, pull up a visual chart of such things and
just use your imagination; no math required!
> After I complete my Chess Program (GetClub) I will design that
> software and earn lots from Stock Market if the product is sucessful.
Yes, yes, by all means put it off until after
you've "solved chess". You know what they
say-- the love of money is the root of all evil,
so why even pursue it. ; >D
> Stock Market is a Gamble you have equal chances of earning and
> loosing. Do not waste your hard earned money in Stocks. I do not
> advice anyone to play the Gamble.
Hmm... it seems to me that you are missing
a few vital facts. One such fact is that while the
majority of "gamblers" lose or make precious
little money in stocks, one need not be among
them. To wit: there are a good number of
stock raters or gurus who have established
*long-term* records of beating the overall
market, some by substantial margins. It is
akin to asking Gary Kasparov to pick your
moves for you, instead of relying upon your
own whims. Some of these folks require buko
money, but others may well be available for
free at one's local library.
Over the short term, owning stocks can be
like riding a roller coaster; but over the longer
term -- such as any rolling ten-year period --
stocks tend to pay off /far better/ than bonds,
gold or what-have-you, especially if you take
advantage of what I mentioned above.
Back to your idea-- there are plenty of
pretenders out there already who do what is
called "curve fitting"; these wannabees will
take a set of known data, and try to write a
program to "predict", or fit, the already-
known stock price outcomes. That's no
good, you see, because it won't accurately
"predict" anything but the set of data it was
modeled on. In the real world, things
change over time.
-- help bot
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Date: 20 Jan 2009 08:01:24
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Sanny and the world's strongest chess engine
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> > I am a great Mathematician so I love Chess. If you want to solve any
> > Maths formula call me. I will Charge $100 / solution.
>
> =A0 If you can figure out a formula which
> *accurately* predicts the stock market's
> gyrations, let me know; maybe we can
> work something out.
Yes, I designed such software. But I have not tested it yet. It
accurately figures out what will be the price of Stock tommorow.
I am happy I did not use it. Else I would have lost a lot of money in
Shares Market.
My software predicts next days Stock values after seeing old values.
It is correct only when the trend continues. If something wrong happen
you may loose the money too. So You just provide me past values of
stock and my program will suggest you the price it will have the next
day.
After I complete my Chess Program (GetClub) I will design that
software and earn lots from Stock Market if the product is sucessful.
Stock Market is a Gamble you have equal chances of earning and
loosing. Do not waste your hard earned money in Stocks. I do not
advice anyone to play the Gamble.
Bye
Sanny
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Date: 20 Jan 2009 07:41:20
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Sanny and the world's strongest chess engine
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> > In case nothing works tell me I will remove the game.
>
> =A0 =A0In which language might you somehow
> understand? =A0 =A0I've tried English, and, well,
> after that I'm sort of all out of ammo. =A0 I do
> know figurine algebraic, a little... .
I tried your game on my computer and it played Pawn to "f6" in just 80
seconds.
Restart your browser and you can continue the game.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 20 Jan 2009 07:30:38
From: Sanny
Subject: Tough Game
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Here is a tough game between Rybka and Easy Level. There was no way to
escape for the Easy Level in this game.
Game Played between sanjay11 and easy at GetClub.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM38308&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White -- Black
(sanjay11) -- (easy)
1. e2-e4{78} c7-c5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{48} Nb8-c6{0}
3. d2-d4{20} c5-d4{0}
4. Nf3-d4{24} e7-e6{0}
5. Nb1-c3{24} Nc6-d4{38}
6. Qd1-d4{30} d7-d6{78}
7. Bc1-e3{34} Bc8-d7{60}
8. Nc3-b5{22} Ng8-f6{32}
9. f2-f3{30} Bd7-b5{28}
10. Bf1-b5{42} Nf6-d7{52}
11. Ke1-g1{36} Qd8-c8{62}
12. Bb5-a4{26} h7-h5{230}
13. Rf1-d1{44} a7-a6{122}
14. c2-c4{28} Ra8-b8{152}
15. c4-c5{22} b7-b5{52}
16. c5-b6{24} e6-e5{28}
17. Qd4-d5{26} h5-h4{168}
18. Ra1-c1{44} Qc8-b7{24}
19. Qd5-b7{28} Rb8-b7{40}
20. Rc1-c7{8} Ke8-d8{106}
21. Rc7-b7{24} Nd7-f6{20}
22. Rd1-c1{24} g7-g5{100}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanjay11: (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM38308&game=Chess
Can you spot any weak move by GetClub?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 20 Jan 2009 07:27:27
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Sanny and the world's strongest chess engine
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On Jan 20, 6:36=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Recently a new thing was added to GetClub making it 2 times stronger.
Same here. I've been testing out a new kind
of oatmeal-- mixed with berries to fight off the
Oxi Dants and Huns. Theory has it that this
somehow aids the Syn Apses, who as everyone
knows are tiny buggers that run things inside
one's brain.
> When you finish this game then try Beginner Level instead of Normal
> Level. And you will see that Beginner playing quite stronger as strong
> as Easy Level would have played.
As always, sharp as a rubber duckie! My
complaint was that it was impossible for me
to finish the game, on account of the program
refusing to move. (On the positive side, my
rating won't take any more of those painful
hits.)
> > =A0 But now, things have sped up a bit, and it seems reason-
> > able to face any but, say, the Advance level, without too
> > much waiting-torture. =A0 Unfortunately, I am now near the
> > tail end of a game, against one of the middle strength
> > levels, in which the program absolutely refuses to move.
> > I stubbornly refuse to click "resigns", and so the battle
> > rages... without progress.
> Has the game crashed Should I delete this game? Is it not making any
> move?
I've rebooted 'till my hard drive screams with
pain. I've re-started the game on a Monday,
on a Wednesday, and on a Friday for good
measure. I've flipped the chess board more
times than Taylor Kingston flipped his position
on purported Russian cheating! I've begged,
I've pleaded, but still, the program will not
move. I've threatened, cajoled, and even
cussed at your confounded contraption, for
it's refusal to move. I've even considered
contacting that seedy fellow Mr. Petrosian
complained about, to offer a small bribe. I've
rocked back and forth, jumped up and down,
and cursed the day that Sanny was born--
all to no avail.
> The Max time after which GetClub makes forced move is as follows.
>
> For Beginner Level : 2 min
> For Easy Level : 8 min
> For Normal Level : 32 min
> If the program is not making move in 32 min then restart the game
> after restarting the computer. So that if there is any error it gets
> removed.
You're talking to an experienced Windows
user here; such minute idiocyncrasies do
not even slow me down. But when you
leave the game running all night long and
still nothing happens, there is obviously not
going to be a "magic solution" cuttoff time
at which things automatically fix themselves.
The problem is that the program does not
do what you say; it does not just fix itself
after a certain number of seconds are ticked
off on the clock.
> After 100 moves are made "Resign Now" Button turns into "Draw Offer"
> Button. So if 100 moves have passed you can accept draw any time even
> when you are loosing the game.
Very interesting. But suppose, just suppose
mind you, a player is winning. In what way
does this fancy button-morphing trick help him
in any way, shape or form?
> In case nothing works tell me I will remove the game.
In which language might you somehow
understand? I've tried English, and, well,
after that I'm sort of all out of ammo. I do
know figurine algebraic, a little... .
> I am a great Mathematician so I love Chess. If you want to solve any
> Maths formula call me. I will Charge $100 / solution.
If you can figure out a formula which
*accurately* predicts the stock market's
gyrations, let me know; maybe we can
work something out.
-- help bot
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Date: 20 Jan 2009 03:36:05
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Sanny and the world's strongest chess engine
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On Jan 20, 1:02=A0pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> =A0 I have to say that I am almost /consistently/ having more
> trouble with the GetClub beast now than before. =A0In the old
> days, I often won effortlessly, and though I desired to face
> the highest levels, their deathly slowness was a powerful
> force which pressed me toward playing the middle levels
> instead.
Recently a new thing was added to GetClub making it 2 times stronger.
When you finish this game then try Beginner Level instead of Normal
Level. And you will see that Beginner playing quite stronger as strong
as Easy Level would have played.
Now you have to think 80 sec / move against Beginner to win the game.
> =A0 But now, things have sped up a bit, and it seems reason-
> able to face any but, say, the Advance level, without too
> much waiting-torture. =A0 Unfortunately, I am now near the
> tail end of a game, against one of the middle strength
> levels, in which the program absolutely refuses to move.
> I stubbornly refuse to click "resigns", and so the battle
> rages... without progress.
Has the game crashed Should I delete this game? Is it not making any
move?
The Max time after which GetClub makes forced move is as follows.
For Beginner Level : 2 min
For Easy Level : 8 min
For Normal Level : 32 min
If the program is not making move in 32 min then restart the game
after restarting the computer. So that if there is any error it gets
removed.
After 100 moves are made "Resign Now" Button turns into "Draw Offer"
Button. So if 100 moves have passed you can accept draw any time even
when you are loosing the game.
In case nothing works tell me I will remove the game.
Normally any game that is not completed in 4-5 days are automatically
deleted. So if some game creates problems that will be removed after 5
days automatically and you can start a new game.
> =A0 Many rabid anti-Sanny talking heads have blasted his
> confounded machine, for a number of different reasons.
> Yet just recently, a fellow appeared, claiming that as
> operator of Fidelity's Par Excellence -- a 2100 rated
> USCF Expert -- he was having difficulty in claiming /a
> draw/. =A0 =A0Take that, you ninnies!
Actually those who still believe that GetClub is weak are players who
have not played any game recently. Anyone who has played a game
recently will undoubtly say that GetClub is unbeatable.
> =A0 It's only one game, but still... there is no rational way to
> explain this occurence, without admitting that Sanny's
> crack programming team has somehow made significant
> progress. =A0 The USCF Expert level is no small feat for a
> program such as this-- one where the rules of chess are
> not quite understood, and where ridiculous methods are
> incorporated to try and compensate for glaring weaknes-
> ses elsewhere.
Rules of Chess are very difficult and its even more difficult to
implement them correctly. But such cases are rare. May be in 1 out of
100 games. 99% games you get no problem like that.
> =A0 I would say that the program is getting to be a fairly
> dangerous tactician, though a careful defender should
> have little trouble exploiting the program's awful endgame.
> =A0On screen, one may note that search depths (not comp-
> arable to the displays of other programs) are beginning
> to get scary-deep. =A0 In some cases, just looking at these
> numbers can lead to a sense of hopelessness, if in a
> losing position as often happens to me. =A0
Nowadays Beginner thinks till 18 depth deep. Earlier it used to see
till just 15 depth deep.
> How can I
> expect to swindle a program that is looking all the way
> to checkmate, one wonders. =A0And yet it can be done, for
> as the program entered endgame territory, it's strength
> diminishes, and human judgment comes more into its
> own.
>
With increase of depth of search I hope end game too will improve.
> =A0 This singular event, the drawing of a single game
> against a known 2100-rated computer opponent, is a
> landmark, make no mistake. =A0 Critics may point out that
> GetClub spend a bit more time per move, or that maybe
> it just got lucky; but they can no longer deny the fact
> that in spite of all their emotional ranting, the GetClub
> team is making serious headway, in spite of their utter
> lack of chess knowledge. =A0 =A0Chess is, after all, just a
> complex excercise in math.
I am a great Mathematician so I love Chess. If you want to solve any
Maths formula call me. I will Charge $100 / solution.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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