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Main
Date: 06 Dec 2007 09:47:47
From: [email protected]
Subject: USCF should Support Kasparov
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Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
the international chess community to the former world champion. It
should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.
Even if the cause was not important of itself (I feel it definitely
is), this is a rare opportunity for the USCF to be part of positive
publicity about chess; a chess player is acting like a true hero. Let
us celebrate that fact while we give him what little support we are
able to provide.
Jerry Spinrad (who still has not been able to get onto the USC orum)
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Date: 10 Dec 2007 07:40:04
From: zdrakec
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
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On Dec 8, 3:11 am, "Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)"
<[email protected] > wrote:
> On Dec 6, 10:57 am, zdrakec <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I certainly agree with your points about Kasparov. However, I must
> > respectfully disagree about the USCF having any involvement. The
> > function of the USCF is to promote chess in the United States; it has
> > (in my humble opinion) no business taking any sort of political stand
> > on non-chess issues.
>
> > Regards,
> > zdrakec
>
> Wow, you sound like true Soviet propaganda.
> They used this trick a lot. And as awful as it sounds,
> it worked. It was so ugly.
>
> Wlod
Ah, what are you talking about?
Cordially,
zdrakec
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Date: 09 Dec 2007 19:55:13
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
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CAN WE HELP KASPAROV?
When Kasparov spoke out after Campo's termination
of KKI in February 1985, he chose Der Spiegel as his
vehicle. There were some great photos of him to go
with the many zingers in his text.
I chose to reprint the Spiegel piece in Chess
Life, and it was a great hit. We had a large
letter-to-the-editor total re the article. Those who
loved Kasprov enthused; those who were pro-Karpov
and/or pro-Soviet fulminated.
The way for Chess Life to help Kasparov as well
as fulfill its function to promote chess in the U.S.
is simply to cover his doings. Most chessplayers,
will find such coverage of great interest. It can be
friendly but not editorializing-friendly. That's the proper
strategy, serving a high purpose and the basic CL mission.
The problem that Kasparov faces as a politician
is that he is not a very good one. Accepting an
honorary citizenship of the United States was stupid,
stupid, stupid. It tells us that even when speaking
out earlier, he was not really committed. Otherwise,
he would never have cozied so close. Too, as a Jew,
he cannot win a vote dominated by Russian voters.
Putin or his stand-in will win the presidential
election because their forces are more popular. The
elections will be free though not fair. The opposition
will get out the message, but it will not resonate.
Let's keep in mind that back in 1989, I think it
was, Boris Yeltsin won 89(!) percent of the vote in
the run for Moscow mayor against Gorbachev's
candidate. The Party controlled the press, and the
opposition had no voice of any kind on TV, radio or
in the newspapers. Instead, many people volunteered
to handout crude samizdat literature.
Compared to the anti-communist opposition of
1989, Kasparov and the current opposition have
enormous financial resources at their command, and
they receive coverage. They have organized parties
and distribute professionally printed literature.
Independent political polling in Russia is
legal, and these polls show Putin a runaway favorite
among the narod. Are the polls accurate? The problem
with political polling is that it is accurate enough
so that the few mistakes are noteworthy for years to
come. Yeah, I think the numbers are about right.
Still, the good news is that there is no
necessary conflict between the USCF doing the right
thing by helping out Kasparov and serving its mission
purpose of promoting chess in the U.S. That's because
most chess people will want to read hardhitting stuff
about Garry and his doings -- no matter what the
specific field of his endeavour may be. It was the
same with Bobby. Readers could never get enough of
him, and were it not for a kind of censorship against
Bobby now being exercised by CL to the detriment of
magazine sales and retention, they would still enjoy
reading about him.
Yours, Larry Parr
Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod) wrote:
> On Dec 7, 7:42 pm, "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In this case, Kasparov very much wants the attention of the West;
>
> The main principle is to not get trapped into playing
> the game by the rules imposed by oppressors.
>
> > It looks like the Truong issue is finally coming to a head,
>
> If it is true that Truong was impersonating Sam Sloan,
> then I hope that Truong will spend some time behind
> the bars.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Wlod
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Date: 09 Dec 2007 12:39:22
From:
Subject: I Destroy Every Thread I'm In
|
REJEK!!!!!!! REJEK!!!!!!!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH=
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH=
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA=
HHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAH=
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH=
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA=
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAVAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA=
AHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHA=
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA=
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH=
AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAA=
AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA=
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA=
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH=
AHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAA=
AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA=
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA=
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAVVAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH=
AHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAA=
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA=
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH=
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAVVVVAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH=
AHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAA=
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAVVAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA=
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA=
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH=
AHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHA=
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA=
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH=
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA=
AHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!=
!!!!!!!!!
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Date: 08 Dec 2007 01:37:39
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
On Dec 7, 7:42 pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected] > wrote:
> In this case, Kasparov very much wants the attention of the West;
The main principle is to not get trapped into playing
the game by the rules imposed by oppressors.
> It looks like the Truong issue is finally coming to a head,
If it is true that Truong was impersonating Sam Sloan,
then I hope that Truong will spend some time behind
the bars.
Best regards,
Wlod
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Date: 08 Dec 2007 01:21:37
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
On Dec 6, 3:31 pm, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
> Somebody has already suggested this. My reaction then was to say that
> it would be *essential* to ask Kasparov about this first. My guess is
> that USCF support could be the kiss of death for Kasparov's campaign
> by causing him to be denounced as America's puppet.
>
> Dave.
your "guess" is self-contradictory.
However, USCF is such a lousy organization
that indeed it doesn't have much weight.
Much more weight would have a letter of
support for Kasparov, and for the democratic
movement, signed by many individuals.
Such a letter would also have an impact on congressmen,
senators... They have to take into account the opinions of
voters.
Regards,
Wlod
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Date: 08 Dec 2007 23:40:18
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod) <[email protected] > wrote:
> David Richerby <[email protected]> wrote:
>> My guess is that USCF support could be the kiss of death for
>> Kasparov's campaign by causing him to be denounced as America's
>> puppet.
>
> your "guess" is self-contradictory.
In what way? Do you think that, if Putin were to give a speech saying
that USCF support for Kasparov proves that he's an American puppet,
the average voter would go and research the facts and find out that
the USCF has nothing to do with the American government? I don't.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Flammable Hi-Fi (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ music system but it burns really
easily!
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Date: 09 Dec 2007 11:08:20
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
"David Richerby" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:wIj*[email protected]...
> Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod) <[email protected]> wrote:
>> David Richerby <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> My guess is that USCF support could be the kiss of death for
>>> Kasparov's campaign by causing him to be denounced as America's
>>> puppet.
>>
>> your "guess" is self-contradictory.
>
> In what way? Do you think that, if Putin were to give a speech saying
> that USCF support for Kasparov proves that he's an American puppet,
Why are you so concerned with what Putin does, Dave, rather than what is
right and decent?
Do you know who stopped the Ukrainian edition of Animal Farm getting to the
East, 'because it might offend Stalin?' [See corres. G. Orwell/ A. Koestler]
and who was arrested in England during WWII for having a copy of Zamyatin's
book, "We", the acknowledged stimulus or basis of 1984, which was critical
of Stalin and Stalinism?
I think the point is that Kasparov has tried to offer Russians something
else, and the mere option available to them is of great value. Maybe next
time a more critical appraisal of their options will occur to them and those
who will lead it out, instead of virtually the one-man-band Kasparov. After
all, who, 5 years before, predicted the American revolution?
> the average voter would go and research the facts and find out that
> the USCF has nothing to do with the American government? I don't.
Endorsement by the USCF is of itself no consequence to Russian people
whatever, and only thinking makes it so/not so. Kasparov himself declared
USCF 'dead' some time ago.
USCF should work on its own act, then on Fide. If it achieves something,
then... then maybe it has something to demonstrate in the art of political
management, rather than remonstrate on what it cannot itself achieve.
Phil Innes
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby Flammable Hi-Fi (TM): it's
> like a
> www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ music system but it burns
> really
> easily!
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Date: 08 Dec 2007 01:11:52
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
On Dec 6, 10:57 am, zdrakec <[email protected] > wrote:
> I certainly agree with your points about Kasparov. However, I must
> respectfully disagree about the USCF having any involvement. The
> function of the USCF is to promote chess in the United States; it has
> (in my humble opinion) no business taking any sort of political stand
> on non-chess issues.
>
> Regards,
> zdrakec
Wow, you sound like true Soviet propaganda.
They used this trick a lot. And as awful as it sounds,
it worked. It was so ugly.
Wlod
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Date: 08 Dec 2007 01:06:10
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: The individual chess players and the pro-democracy people should
|
On Dec 6, 9:47 am, "[email protected]"
<[email protected] > wrote:
> Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
> that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
> the international chess community to the former world champion. It
> should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
> attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.
>
> [...]
>
> Jerry Spinrad (who still has not been able to get onto the USC orum)
Jerry, your initiative and suggestion is great. But it is
still much more important and the impact will be much more
impressive if private persons will sign a letter in support
of democracy in Russia, and for Kasparov in particular, en mass.
Perhaps you, Larry and Taylor can collaborate on the text,
making sure that not only English but also the concepts shine
in its utmost fundamental simplicity. (I may try to find about
the technical aspect of such letters; I ran into this in the past;
or perhaps the three of you may do it all by yourself).
Best regards,
Wlod
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Date: 07 Dec 2007 21:32:08
From: The Historian
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
On Dec 7, 10:42 pm, "[email protected]" Since I am more
firmly tethered to planet Earth than some
> writers on this forum, I will not make the claim that my Chess Cafe
> column is the best-ever writing about chess....
Perhaps not. But it's a damn fine body of work, Jerry.
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Date: 07 Dec 2007 19:42:35
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
In this case, Kasparov very much wants the attention of the West; I
doubt that many people would view the support of a chess federation
would be viewed as intervention as a hostile power in any case.
The USCF is not involved in the cause of Russian democracy, and it is
not part of our mandate. However, I feel that if a chess master makes
a great contribution in an area other than chess, we celebrate this
achivement. When Josh Waitzkin won a tial arts championship, the
USCF discussed this non-chess achievement in its magazine. If a chess
master became a major supporter of a noncontroversial humanitarian
cause, I am sure we would honor them somehow for their sacrifice of
time and/or money.
Kasparov is sacrificing his time and money, and putting himself at
some risk of physical danger. The cause should not be controversial to
any American (I say American here only because we are speaking of the
USCF; the same statement would be true for people from any democratic
country.) In my opinion, we should make a public celebration of his
political heroism.
I suppose I will try to use my own tiny forum to make such a
statement. Since I am more firmly tethered to planet Earth than some
writers on this forum, I will not make the claim that my Chess Cafe
column is the best-ever writing about chess, but I will try to take
off from Kasparov and discuss other chess players who have made bold
political statements for noble causes. I am a slow writer for new
articles, however, so it may take some time to polish such an article.
The problem is not lack of noble chess players, I am happy to say; I
have run into quite a few players during my historical chess research
who fought altruistically for justice on behalf of quite a number of
different causes.
This is probably my last post on the subject for a while. It looks
like the Truong issue is finally coming to a head, and it is probably
true that the USCF will have to deal with it before engaging itself in
any broader issues.
Jerry Spinrad
On Dec 6, 5:31 pm, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
n Dec 6, 5:31 pm, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
> > that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
> > the international chess community to the former world champion. It
> > should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
> > attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.
>
> Somebody has already suggested this. My reaction then was to say that
> it would be *essential* to ask Kasparov about this first. My guess is
> that USCF support could be the kiss of death for Kasparov's campaign
> by causing him to be denounced as America's puppet.
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby Addictive Perforated Priest (TM):www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a man of the cloth but it's
> full of holes and you can never put
> it down!
|
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Date: 07 Dec 2007 10:07:53
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
FROM HINDUSTAN TIMES:
Recall Moscow envoy for backing chess king, UK Queen urged
Moscow, December 06, 2007
The pro-Kremlin youth movement Nashi has appealed to Queen Elizabeth
II to withdraw the British ambassador from Moscow for allegedly
supporting opponents of President Vladimir Putin.
"This would be the same as if we went to America and started giving
money to the Klu Klux Klan," Alexander Gagiyev, a Nashi leader, told
the English-language Moscow Times.
The group, which wants Putin to remain Russia's leader despite a
Constitutional requirement for him to step down next year, has been
picketing the British embassy to protest ambassador Sir Anthony
Brenton's recent attendance at a meeting of The Other Russia, an anti-
Kremlin coalition led by chess champion Garry Kasparov.
Kasparov, who says he will run in presidential polls slated for ch
2, spent five days in a Russian jail last week for leading an
"unauthorized rally" against Putin's alleged plans to remain Russia's
leader.
Nashi accuses Brenton of pledging to donate $2-million to The Other
Russia, a claim the British side denies.
In addition to writing to the Queen, Nashi says it is suing Brenton in
a Moscow court on the grounds that he violated the Vienna Convention,
which forbids diplomats from interfering in the internal politics of
host countries.
Nashi, which means "Ours" in Russian, is the Putinista youth movement
established by the Kremlin two years ago to ward off the threat of a
Ukrainian-style orange revolution in Russia.
Chess One wrote:
> "SBD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Dec 6, 12:57 pm, zdrakec <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I certainly agree with your points about Kasparov. However, I must
> >> respectfully disagree about the USCF having any involvement. The
> >> function of the USCF is to promote chess in the United States; it has
> >> (in my humble opinion) no business taking any sort of political stand
> >> on non-chess issues.
> >
> >
> > Agreed. It isn't their mission.
> >
> > But chessplayers within the USCF or just in general, could form, oh,
> > what is the name of the physicians' organization against nuclear arms?
> > Alzheimer's moment.... but such a group could be international.
>
> Medecin sans Frontieres. A local guy in our town won a Nobel for his work
> [that's 4 Nobels for our town].
>
> I know a Swedish gal my own age who is an MD. She has been to Africa twice
> with this program. Tough to read her personal writing though, since she says
> that somewhat more than half of the time she is reduced to nursing [which is
> of great need there] and cannot practice her science as a doctor.
>
> Sweden gives more money per capita to programs like this [and in contrast
> with USA, more money in absolute amount too] and, while this Scandinavian
> country provides a formidable lead in world conscience, I still accept her
> 50% effectiveness report by virtue of her own experience there. I also
> accept that as being the superior opinion in contribution and experience of
> its effect.
>
> While I like the spirit of Jerry Spinrad's post, nevertheless it must be
> said that unless chess has something to say about democratic process which
> it can usefully contribute by virtue of its own demonstrated process, it
> should hold its council. USCF is no exemplar of any democratic idea, and
> FIDE is a democratic absurdity.
>
> To have read the recent messages here provided by Larry Parr, citing Larry
> Evans' new title on the real zeitgeist in chess, is enough to cause any
> candid opinion, pause. Yet even in our game, you will note the contentious
> denial thrown at what Evan's says.
>
> In this sense cus Roberts is right if his intent was to say: We should
> make peace in our own house before venturing abroad.
>
> Where, do you think, is there a will to do that?
>
> Phil Innes
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Date: 07 Dec 2007 07:08:10
From: zdrakec
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
On Dec 6, 12:57 pm, zdrakec <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Dec 6, 11:47 am, "[email protected]"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
> > that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
> > the international chess community to the former world champion. It
> > should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
> > attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.
>
> > Even if the cause was not important of itself (I feel it definitely
> > is), this is a rare opportunity for the USCF to be part of positive
> > publicity about chess; a chess player is acting like a true hero. Let
> > us celebrate that fact while we give him what little support we are
> > able to provide.
>
> > Jerry Spinrad (who still has not been able to get onto the USC orum)
>
> I certainly agree with your points about Kasparov. However, I must
> respectfully disagree about the USCF having any involvement. The
> function of the USCF is to promote chess in the United States; it has
> (in my humble opinion) no business taking any sort of political stand
> on non-chess issues.
>
> Regards,
> zdrakec
I meant to add, on a side note, thank you, Dr. Spinrad, for the
fascinating article about Deschapelles on Chess Cafe.
Cheers,
zdrakec
|
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Date: 06 Dec 2007 23:31:59
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
[email protected] <[email protected] > wrote:
> Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
> that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
> the international chess community to the former world champion. It
> should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
> attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.
Somebody has already suggested this. My reaction then was to say that
it would be *essential* to ask Kasparov about this first. My guess is
that USCF support could be the kiss of death for Kasparov's campaign
by causing him to be denounced as America's puppet.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Addictive Perforated Priest (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a man of the cloth but it's
full of holes and you can never put
it down!
|
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Date: 06 Dec 2007 13:49:36
From: help bot
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
On Dec 6, 4:27 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Dec 6, 3:17 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Well, unless you have had somebody threaten to kill you (and mean it)
What the heck is taking them so long? Why is
this man still alive? Is he James Bond, or maybe
Superman? I wonder if the hired killers have been
shipwrecked, maybe on Antarctica... .
> Perhaps I do not have a choice, Phil. This is all about money!
It's not worth all the hassle; better to give *me*
all your money, and let *me* suffer the slings and
arrows in your place. Remember that the love
of money is the root of all evil... it is easier for
a camel to get to 2450 nearly-an-IM level, than
for a rich man to enter the gates of Heaven.
(Also, the IRS will not be breathing down your
neck, greedily eyeballing all that mullah.)
help bot
bot central
the internet, planet earth
c/o:
aruba international offshore bank
(I prefer gold bars, but will reluctantly
accept U.S. Treasuries in a pinch.)
|
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Date: 06 Dec 2007 13:27:27
From:
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
On Dec 6, 3:17 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:9c6755eb-4f52-43ad-94ff-2cc40baf3fff@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 6, 12:35 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >>news:71177e12-38d8-4f7b-91ff-5326b5987983@j44g2000hsj.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
> >> > that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
> >> > the international chess community to the former world champion. It
> >> > should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
> >> > attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.
>
> >> While I agree at a personal level with Jerry Spinrad about the importance
> >> of
> >> Kasparov's public stance in support of democratic practice in Russia - I
> >> would first like to see USCF support democracy in chess in this country
> >> by
> >> allowing USCF members to actually comment on 'chess governance'.
>
> >> Should it fail to do that then it is likely to be dismissed has
> >> hypocritical.
>
> >> Secondly, I would then like to see USCF, via advocacy for Kasparov if it
> >> deems it prospective, to then advocate for democracy in Fide.
>
> >> Should both the above be attained, then by all means let us support
> >> democracy in the wider sphere of national politics.
>
> >> > Even if the cause was not important of itself (I feel it definitely
> >> > is), this is a rare opportunity for the USCF to be part of positive
> >> > publicity about chess; a chess player is acting like a true hero. Let
> >> > us celebrate that fact while we give him what little support we are
> >> > able to provide.
>
> >> I very much like this sentiment. Would that USCF's support be credible.
> >> At a
> >> personal level I agree completely.
>
> >> Phil Innes
>
> >> > Jerry Spinrad (who still has not been able to get onto the USC orum)-
> >> > Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Here comes Phil Innes. The United States should interfere in the
> > internal affairs of the Government of Russia.
>
> Actually, I said 2 rather different things cus - 2 very difficult things
> to do before 'interfering' with any idea of democracy since it seems to me
> that if you cannot demonstrate it, then you have nothing to talk about.
>
> > This is none of our business. Is it fair? No. Do we want Phil Innes to
> > interfere in the affairs of Russia, No.?
>
> Of course we don't want Phil Innes to interfere with 'affairs' in Russia,
> especially since these affairs are only quasi-democratic to begin with, and
> by all accounts queasy-democratic in practice.
>
> > What is our business (United States of America) is the death threats
> > made of his associates - namely Susan Polgar. The United States
> > Should prosecute Paul Troung, husband of Susan Polgar, and stay the
> > hell away from liberals from the northeast
> > Who profit from the molestation of children in chess.
>
> > Phil Innes works with Susan Polgar. I wonder how much he gets paid for
> > this support?
>
> cus - if someone threatened me I would not speculate on usenet. You do.
> This may only be a tempermental difference in our personalities.
>
> I am not sure about your reference to molesting children, since when I raise
> the issue of standards I never see you on the ramparts.
>
> Phil Innes
>
>
>
>
>
> > cus Roberts- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Phil Innes writes:
"cus - if someone threatened me I would not speculate on usenet.
You do.
This may only be a tempermental difference in our personalities."
Well, unless you have had somebody threaten to kill you (and mean it)
I wouldn't make
statements about what you would do in a sitaution you have never
faced. You just don't
know what you do, until you cross that bridge....
You have no idea the pressures I face, nor do I have any idea of your
pressures.
Nor would I (like Sam Sloan did) hand Bill Kellhner a bunch of files
on me, and go down
to St Kitts and Nevis, and give the files to a foriegn government.
Perhaps I do not have a choice, Phil. This is all about money!
cus Roberts
Permanent Delegate of St Kitts and Nevis to FIDE
|
| |
Date: 06 Dec 2007 13:10:21
From:
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
On Dec 6, 12:35 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:71177e12-38d8-4f7b-91ff-5326b5987983@j44g2000hsj.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
> > that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
> > the international chess community to the former world champion. It
> > should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
> > attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.
>
> While I agree at a personal level with Jerry Spinrad about the importance of
> Kasparov's public stance in support of democratic practice in Russia - I
> would first like to see USCF support democracy in chess in this country by
> allowing USCF members to actually comment on 'chess governance'.
>
> Should it fail to do that then it is likely to be dismissed has
> hypocritical.
>
> Secondly, I would then like to see USCF, via advocacy for Kasparov if it
> deems it prospective, to then advocate for democracy in Fide.
>
> Should both the above be attained, then by all means let us support
> democracy in the wider sphere of national politics.
>
> > Even if the cause was not important of itself (I feel it definitely
> > is), this is a rare opportunity for the USCF to be part of positive
> > publicity about chess; a chess player is acting like a true hero. Let
> > us celebrate that fact while we give him what little support we are
> > able to provide.
>
> I very much like this sentiment. Would that USCF's support be credible. At a
> personal level I agree completely.
>
> Phil Innes
>
>
>
> > Jerry Spinrad (who still has not been able to get onto the USC orum)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Here comes Phil Innes. The United States should interfere in the
internal affairs of the Government of Russia.
This is none of our business. Is it fair? No. Do we want Phil Innes to
interfere in the affairs of Russia, No.?
What is our business (United States of America) is the death threats
made of his associates - namely Susan Polgar. The United States
Should prosecute Paul Troung, husband of Susan Polgar, and stay the
hell away from liberals from the northeast
Who profit from the molestation of children in chess.
Phil Innes works with Susan Polgar. I wonder how much he gets paid for
this support?
cus Roberts
|
| | |
Date: 06 Dec 2007 16:17:27
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:9c6755eb-4f52-43ad-94ff-2cc40baf3fff@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 6, 12:35 pm, "Chess One" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:71177e12-38d8-4f7b-91ff-5326b5987983@j44g2000hsj.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
>> > that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
>> > the international chess community to the former world champion. It
>> > should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
>> > attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.
>>
>> While I agree at a personal level with Jerry Spinrad about the importance
>> of
>> Kasparov's public stance in support of democratic practice in Russia - I
>> would first like to see USCF support democracy in chess in this country
>> by
>> allowing USCF members to actually comment on 'chess governance'.
>>
>> Should it fail to do that then it is likely to be dismissed has
>> hypocritical.
>>
>> Secondly, I would then like to see USCF, via advocacy for Kasparov if it
>> deems it prospective, to then advocate for democracy in Fide.
>>
>> Should both the above be attained, then by all means let us support
>> democracy in the wider sphere of national politics.
>>
>> > Even if the cause was not important of itself (I feel it definitely
>> > is), this is a rare opportunity for the USCF to be part of positive
>> > publicity about chess; a chess player is acting like a true hero. Let
>> > us celebrate that fact while we give him what little support we are
>> > able to provide.
>>
>> I very much like this sentiment. Would that USCF's support be credible.
>> At a
>> personal level I agree completely.
>>
>> Phil Innes
>>
>>
>>
>> > Jerry Spinrad (who still has not been able to get onto the USC orum)-
>> > Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Here comes Phil Innes. The United States should interfere in the
> internal affairs of the Government of Russia.
Actually, I said 2 rather different things cus - 2 very difficult things
to do before 'interfering' with any idea of democracy since it seems to me
that if you cannot demonstrate it, then you have nothing to talk about.
> This is none of our business. Is it fair? No. Do we want Phil Innes to
> interfere in the affairs of Russia, No.?
Of course we don't want Phil Innes to interfere with 'affairs' in Russia,
especially since these affairs are only quasi-democratic to begin with, and
by all accounts queasy-democratic in practice.
> What is our business (United States of America) is the death threats
> made of his associates - namely Susan Polgar. The United States
> Should prosecute Paul Troung, husband of Susan Polgar, and stay the
> hell away from liberals from the northeast
> Who profit from the molestation of children in chess.
>
> Phil Innes works with Susan Polgar. I wonder how much he gets paid for
> this support?
cus - if someone threatened me I would not speculate on usenet. You do.
This may only be a tempermental difference in our personalities.
I am not sure about your reference to molesting children, since when I raise
the issue of standards I never see you on the ramparts.
Phil Innes
>
> cus Roberts
|
| |
Date: 06 Dec 2007 12:59:08
From: SBD
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
On Dec 6, 12:57 pm, zdrakec <[email protected] > wrote:
> I certainly agree with your points about Kasparov. However, I must
> respectfully disagree about the USCF having any involvement. The
> function of the USCF is to promote chess in the United States; it has
> (in my humble opinion) no business taking any sort of political stand
> on non-chess issues.
Agreed. It isn't their mission.
But chessplayers within the USCF or just in general, could form, oh,
what is the name of the physicians' organization against nuclear arms?
Alzheimer's moment.... but such a group could be international.
|
| | |
Date: 06 Dec 2007 16:43:16
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
"SBD" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Dec 6, 12:57 pm, zdrakec <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I certainly agree with your points about Kasparov. However, I must
>> respectfully disagree about the USCF having any involvement. The
>> function of the USCF is to promote chess in the United States; it has
>> (in my humble opinion) no business taking any sort of political stand
>> on non-chess issues.
>
>
> Agreed. It isn't their mission.
>
> But chessplayers within the USCF or just in general, could form, oh,
> what is the name of the physicians' organization against nuclear arms?
> Alzheimer's moment.... but such a group could be international.
Medecin sans Frontieres. A local guy in our town won a Nobel for his work
[that's 4 Nobels for our town].
I know a Swedish gal my own age who is an MD. She has been to Africa twice
with this program. Tough to read her personal writing though, since she says
that somewhat more than half of the time she is reduced to nursing [which is
of great need there] and cannot practice her science as a doctor.
Sweden gives more money per capita to programs like this [and in contrast
with USA, more money in absolute amount too] and, while this Scandinavian
country provides a formidable lead in world conscience, I still accept her
50% effectiveness report by virtue of her own experience there. I also
accept that as being the superior opinion in contribution and experience of
its effect.
While I like the spirit of Jerry Spinrad's post, nevertheless it must be
said that unless chess has something to say about democratic process which
it can usefully contribute by virtue of its own demonstrated process, it
should hold its council. USCF is no exemplar of any democratic idea, and
FIDE is a democratic absurdity.
To have read the recent messages here provided by Larry Parr, citing Larry
Evans' new title on the real zeitgeist in chess, is enough to cause any
candid opinion, pause. Yet even in our game, you will note the contentious
denial thrown at what Evan's says.
In this sense cus Roberts is right if his intent was to say: We should
make peace in our own house before venturing abroad.
Where, do you think, is there a will to do that?
Phil Innes
|
| |
Date: 06 Dec 2007 10:57:06
From: zdrakec
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
On Dec 6, 11:47 am, "[email protected]"
<[email protected] > wrote:
> Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
> that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
> the international chess community to the former world champion. It
> should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
> attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.
>
> Even if the cause was not important of itself (I feel it definitely
> is), this is a rare opportunity for the USCF to be part of positive
> publicity about chess; a chess player is acting like a true hero. Let
> us celebrate that fact while we give him what little support we are
> able to provide.
>
> Jerry Spinrad (who still has not been able to get onto the USC orum)
I certainly agree with your points about Kasparov. However, I must
respectfully disagree about the USCF having any involvement. The
function of the USCF is to promote chess in the United States; it has
(in my humble opinion) no business taking any sort of political stand
on non-chess issues.
Regards,
zdrakec
|
| |
Date: 06 Dec 2007 13:35:39
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: USCF should Support Kasparov
|
<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:71177e12-38d8-4f7b-91ff-5326b5987983@j44g2000hsj.googlegroups.com...
> Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
> that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
> the international chess community to the former world champion. It
> should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
> attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.
While I agree at a personal level with Jerry Spinrad about the importance of
Kasparov's public stance in support of democratic practice in Russia - I
would first like to see USCF support democracy in chess in this country by
allowing USCF members to actually comment on 'chess governance'.
Should it fail to do that then it is likely to be dismissed has
hypocritical.
Secondly, I would then like to see USCF, via advocacy for Kasparov if it
deems it prospective, to then advocate for democracy in Fide.
Should both the above be attained, then by all means let us support
democracy in the wider sphere of national politics.
> Even if the cause was not important of itself (I feel it definitely
> is), this is a rare opportunity for the USCF to be part of positive
> publicity about chess; a chess player is acting like a true hero. Let
> us celebrate that fact while we give him what little support we are
> able to provide.
I very much like this sentiment. Would that USCF's support be credible. At a
personal level I agree completely.
Phil Innes
> Jerry Spinrad (who still has not been able to get onto the USC orum)
|
|
