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Main
Date: 13 Dec 2008 08:24:24
From: Sanny
Subject: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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Peter played against Master Level and win in just 4 moves.
Master level was thinking 1 hour on each move.
Master Level found Mate and Resigned at 4th move.
This is the Shortest mate at GetClub Chess. And may be the worlds
shortest game
Game Played between peter and master at GetClub.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
peter: (White)
master: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM34042&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White -- Black
(peter) -- (master)
1. Nb1-c3{2} d7-d5{0}
2. d2-d4{8} f7-f6{2299}
3. e2-e3{2} g7-g5{4362}
4. Bf1-d3{3} Nb8-d7{3537}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
peter: (White)
master: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM34042&game=Chess
Was the Game really Forced Mate at 4th move? Was there no move to
defend the King at 4th move? What do other Chess engines say about
last move.
Does Rybka/ Fritz see Forced Mate at 4th Move? Since GetClub thought 1
hour before resigning. It looks like there is Mate in 16/ 18 Which
Master Level saw and Resigned.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 19 Dec 2008 11:40:00
From: None
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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On Dec 18, 11:05=A0pm, "Bob Campbell" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "Patrick Volk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > That statement is bogus. What is your basis?
>
> The voices in his head.
>
> Seriously, why do people keep responding to this troll? =A0 Just filter h=
im
> out. =A0 He has no clue.
YES!!! Please don't feed the Sanny troll.
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Date: 17 Dec 2008 11:37:25
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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On Dec 17, 3:54=A0am, Martin Brown <
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Date: 17 Dec 2008 11:22:49
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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On Dec 16, 11:05=A0pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
Allow me to now assist myself in my own struggles...
> > =A0 4.Bd3
>
> > =A0 It's unclear why *White* does not immediately play 4.Qh5+ Kd7 follo=
wed
> > by 5.h4 or 5.e4, starting a lethal attack.
>
> =A0 Now our hero, Mr. Kingston, seems confounded
> by GetClub's inability to find the best moves. =A0One
> is left almost speechless.
The GetClub program was, in fact, *Black* in this
game. What was I thinking?
> > Relatively best was 4...Nh6,
> > so that if 5.Qh5+ Nf7, though White would still stand better.
>
> =A0 A mere glance by Rybka indicates that in
> this line White can effectively open the h-
> file via 6. h4, and she scores this as more
> advantageous than the alternative defense,
> 4. ...Be6. =A0(Note that pushing by with ...g4
> simply hangs the d-pawn.)
That was just about as confusing as it could
be.
To clarify, I meant the Rybka rejects Fritz's
move, ...Nh6, because White can then open
and exploit the h-file. Rybka prefers ...Be6
as the best defense, and scores it as less
than a pawn advantage for White.
I took the dogs outside a few minutes ago,
slipped on the ice (well-disguised by a thin
layer of snow) and smacked my head on the
cement before I even knew what hit me!
Oddly enough, this brain damage seems
to have helped me to clarify my thoughts a
bit.
-- help bot
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Date: 17 Dec 2008 10:58:09
From:
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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On Dec 17, 1:19=A0pm, Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Dec 13, 4:24=A0pm, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
----=AD-----
> > peter: (White)
> > master: (Black)
> > Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> > View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM34042&gam=
e=3DChess
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
----=AD-----
>
> > White -- Black
> > (peter) -- (master)
>
> > 1. Nb1-c3 d7-d5
> > 2. d2-d4 f7-f6
> > 3. e2-e3 g7-g5
> > 4. Bf1-d3 Nb8-d7
>
> "The Everbrown Game".
This game is so bad that it, plus your dubbing it "Everbrown,"
reminds me of a dreadful joke from a Monty Python skit:
Q: What's brown, and sounds like a bell?
A. Dung!
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Date: 17 Dec 2008 10:19:10
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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On Dec 13, 4:24=A0pm, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
> peter: (White)
> master: (Black)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM34042&game=
=3DChess
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
>
> White -- Black
> (peter) -- (master)
>
> 1. Nb1-c3 d7-d5
> 2. d2-d4 f7-f6
> 3. e2-e3 g7-g5
> 4. Bf1-d3 Nb8-d7
"The Everbrown Game".
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Date: 16 Dec 2008 20:05:00
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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On Dec 13, 12:11=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> > White -- Black
> > (peter) -- (master)
>
> > 1. Nb1-c3{2} d7-d5{0}
> > 2. d2-d4{8} f7-f6{2299}
> > 3. e2-e3{2} g7-g5{4362}
> > 4. Bf1-d3{3} Nb8-d7{3537}
> OK, now we're heading toward the Veresov System. Black has many good
> replies here, including 2...Nf6, 2...Bf5, 2...e6 (which after 3.e5
> transposes to the French)
In one breath Mr. Kingston tells us that Black
has "good" replies, but in the very next breath
he notes a transposition to the heinous French
Defense; why am I somehow reminded of the
inimitable "logic" of a Sam Sloan?
> =A0 2...f6?!
> =A0 Eh? Not mentioned in Bellin's "Queens Pawn: Veresov System," and
> probably for good reason. It's no good trying to enforce e7-e5 right
> now, because after d4xe5 Black's d-pawn is hanging.
It is very strange, and yet hardly surprising,
that Mr. Kingston attempts to ascribe the art
of strategic planning to the GetClub program.
The less said about this sort of Kingstonian
fantasizing, the better.
> =A0 3.e3
>
> =A0 Nothing especially good or bad about this move.
>
> =A0 3...g5??
>
> =A0 But there is everything bad about this! Sanny, your so-called
> "master-level" program is playing like an idiot. Aside from perhaps
> 3...Bg4, this is probably the worst move on the board.
Allow me to assist Mr.Kingston in his struggles
with chess analysis:
The absolute worst move in this position was in
fact ...Bh3. (This is because the Bishop can then
be captured, you see.)
> =A0 4.Bd3
>
> =A0 It's unclear why White does not immediately play 4.Qh5+ Kd7 followed
> by 5.h4 or 5.e4, starting a lethal attack.
Now our hero, Mr. Kingston, seems confounded
by GetClub's inability to find the best moves. One
is left almost speechless.
> =A0 4...Nd7???
>
> =A0 No "perhaps" about it, this IS the worst move on the board, the
> knight occupying the king's only flight square.
The one time in this game where there are in
fact /two equally horrible moves/, has our hero,
Mr. Kingston, certain-sure that there is but one
worst move.
> Apparently the
> "master" level cannot see a mate in one.
In reality, GC's Master level routinely sees
mate /several moves ahead/. There is very
likely a bug which has caused this particular
fiasco; nevertheless, our hero Kingston has
somehow managed to wander down a wrong
path using his indescribable wit as guide.
> Relatively best was 4...Nh6,
> so that if 5.Qh5+ Nf7, though White would still stand better.
A mere glance by Rybka indicates that in
this line White can effectively open the h-
file via 6. h4, and she scores this as more
advantageous than the alternative defense,
4. ...Be6. (Note that pushing by with ...g4
simply hangs the d-pawn.)
Well, that's all for now. If Mr. Kingston
needs any more help in his difficult struggles
with logic or with elementary chess analysis,
I am glad to help.
-- help bot
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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Date: 16 Dec 2008 05:32:26
From:
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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On Dec 16, 5:37=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > > =A0 I don't know where you get that idea, Sanny. Please present your
> > > analysis. Certainly after 4.Bd3 White stands better, but Black can
> > > defuse the immediate danger with 4...Nh6 or 4...Be6.
>
> > Or 4. .. g4 (which for a long time Shredder prefers). Eventually it
> > agrees Nh6 is best. But the best move isn't needed to avoid a forced
> > mate in 20 ply. Overnight analysis of all lines on Shredder10 reveals
> > that at full depth search to ply20 with selective extensions out to
> > ply 62 not even the worst materially losing moves allow white a quick
> > win inside the search horizon.
>
> I tested the moves on different level and could not find any Mate. So
> there must be some type of error in calculation by Master Level.
Well, waddya know? For once Sanny acknowledges reality.
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Date: 16 Dec 2008 03:22:31
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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I am sure it was in a William Hartston book where someone resigns
after a couple of moves because he has seen a mate in 20. He does it
to show how good he is.
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Date: 16 Dec 2008 02:37:49
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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> > =A0 I don't know where you get that idea, Sanny. Please present your
> > analysis. Certainly after 4.Bd3 White stands better, but Black can
> > defuse the immediate danger with 4...Nh6 or 4...Be6.
>
> Or 4. .. g4 (which for a long time Shredder prefers). Eventually it
> agrees Nh6 is best. But the best move isn't needed to avoid a forced
> mate in 20 ply. Overnight analysis of all lines on Shredder10 reveals
> that at full depth search to ply20 with selective extensions out to
> ply 62 not even the worst materially losing moves allow white a quick
> win inside the search horizon.
I tested the moves on different level and could not find any Mate. So
there must be some type of error in calculation by Master Level.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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Date: 15 Dec 2008 22:18:20
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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> > Should I see this move that this
> > is forced mate or not? Or do you have some other move to test?
>
> =A0 Just test 4...Nh6 for now. If you have time, try 4...Be6 too.- Hide q=
uoted text -
I tried setting the position and played with different levels. None of
them could find the Mate.
Beginner: 14 depth, Played Nf3 (1.91) 15 sec
Easy: 16 depth, Played Nf3 (2.71) 30 sec
Normal: 18 depth, Played Qh5+ (2.69) 588 sec
Master: 19 depth, Played Qh5+ (2.45) 860 sec
Looks like it was because of some error. I need to look what may have
happened at that time. I will reset the board to old position and see
if it resigns again.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 15 Dec 2008 20:40:57
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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On Dec 14, 5:48=A0am, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> Previously, the shortest game by a master went like this:
>
> 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nd2 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. h3 Ne3
>
> and now White, the former Champion of France, resigned because his
> queen is lost. If he plays 5. fxe3 then Qh4+ /and mate follows/.
Can Mr. Sloan demonstrate the follow-up
which forces checkmate? I see nothing
after ...Qh4++ except to offer a draw and
then resign, leap onto the table and scream
"why must I lose to this idiot!", then go and
stand in a corner, mumbling to yourself;
stand on your head; swat at invisible flies;
run naked through the hotel shouting "fire!";
and finally, claim it was not you but an
impostor who played those moves. Insist
to the ratings committee that the game
should not count for rating purposes, and
threaten to resign your title if they dare
rate that impostor's game as your own... .
-- help bot
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Date: 15 Dec 2008 20:12:03
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
On Dec 13, 8:24 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> Master Level found Mate and Resigned at 4th move.
Nonsense.
> Since GetClub thought 1 hour before resigning.
> It looks like there is Mate in 16/ 18 Which
> Master Level saw and Resigned.
GetClub Master Level didn't see a thing.
Sanny, if you believe, that GetClub saw a forced mate,
the bet on it say $2K. Many of us would agree to play
black, after 4th white move, against GetClub. Since GetClub
saw a forced mate it should be able to win for white in
one minute but let it have two hours.
The only problem is that GetClub might cheat.
On the other hand it's not a problem in the
case of the other side, let it use Rybka or even
the Dog All Barky, since GetClub will checkmate it
all the same.
So, are you ready to put $2K in escrow?
I would agree that I win the bet only if
I actually win the game, and would give
GetClub draw odds. But how to make sure that
GetClub is not cheating? This is essential,
because black has an clearly inferior position,
which translates into a lost game if GetClub were
to use help from rybka or another strong
engine.
I would have hard time to set up such a match
for logistic reasons but I am sure that
others would be happy to oblige you, Sanny,
and to win easy $2K with a smile. But first,
what do you say, Sanny? Do you still firmly
believe that master Level saw a forced mate? Then
put you money where your mouth is.
Wlod
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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Date: 15 Dec 2008 09:29:57
From:
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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On Dec 15, 12:02=A0pm, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > > And today it found a Mate in 16 ... 20 which no other Chess Engine
> > > could found. Even Taylor Kingston do not bilieve that the game has
> > > Mate in 16 ... 20
>
> > =A0 Sanny, let me make this perfectly clear: your program did NOT find
> > any forced mate in 16, or 20, or any number of moves. In the position
> > in question, there is no forced mate in 16 or 20. The fact that you
> > cannot present any supporting analysis, or even say whether the mate
> > is 16 or 20 moves, shows that you're talking through your hat.
>
> Yes I am taking with hat because GetClub ha played 5000 Games and
> whenever it resigns It does when It sees a forced mate in 10-12.
>
> It takes just 10 sec to find Mate in 10. It thought for 1 hour before
> resigning So it resigned after 3600 sec
>
> Time to find a Mate in 11 is double than to find mate in 10.
> Mate in 11 10*2 =3D 20 sec
> Time to find a Mate in 12 is double than to find mate in 11.
> Mate in 12 20*2 =3D 40 sec
>
> We continue further.
>
> Mate in 13 40*2 =3D 80 sec
> Mate in 14 80*2 =3D 160 sec
> Mate in 15 160*2 =3D 320 sec
> Mate in 16 320*2 =3D 640 sec
> Mate in 17 640*2 =3D 1280 sec
> Mate in 18 1280*2 =3D 2560 sec
> Mate in 19 2560*2 =3D 5120 sec
>
> So in 5120 is will see a Mate in 19.
Sanny, this is bullshit. Your program cannot see 19 moves ahead any
more than a pig can fly.
> Now to really see there is Mate in 19/ 20 or not. We can play a few
> moves.
>
> Please tell me the move that Black can play after 3. Bd3 which will
> not allow white to Mate.
I presume you mean 4.Bd3? I mean, the game actually went 1.Nc3 d5
2.d4 f6 3.e3 g5?? 4.Bd3. Pretty much anything other than 4...Nd7 or
4...Bd7 avoids mate next move. However, Fritz8 considers 4...Nh6
relatively best, while Rybka prefers 4...Be6.
> I will arrange that position and see if it finds forced Mate with that
> move or not?
Yes, that is what people have been asking you to do for several days
now. You're just now catching on?
> You said 3.... Nh6 Can save the Mate.
No, I said 4...Nh6.
> Should I see this move that this
> is forced mate or not? Or do you have some other move to test?
Just test 4...Nh6 for now. If you have time, try 4...Be6 too.
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Date: 15 Dec 2008 09:02:35
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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> > And today it found a Mate in 16 ... 20 which no other Chess Engine
> > could found. Even Taylor Kingston do not bilieve that the game has
> > Mate in 16 ... 20
>
> =A0 Sanny, let me make this perfectly clear: your program did NOT find
> any forced mate in 16, or 20, or any number of moves. In the position
> in question, there is no forced mate in 16 or 20. The fact that you
> cannot present any supporting analysis, or even say whether the mate
> is 16 or 20 moves, shows that you're talking through your hat.
Yes I am taking with hat because GetClub ha played 5000 Games and
whenever it resigns It does when It sees a forced mate in 10-12.
It takes just 10 sec to find Mate in 10. It thought for 1 hour before
resigning So it resigned after 3600 sec
Time to find a Mate in 11 is double than to find mate in 10.
Mate in 11 10*2 =3D 20 sec
Time to find a Mate in 12 is double than to find mate in 11.
Mate in 12 20*2 =3D 40 sec
We continue further.
Mate in 13 40*2 =3D 80 sec
Mate in 14 80*2 =3D 160 sec
Mate in 15 160*2 =3D 320 sec
Mate in 16 320*2 =3D 640 sec
Mate in 17 640*2 =3D 1280 sec
Mate in 18 1280*2 =3D 2560 sec
Mate in 19 2560*2 =3D 5120 sec
So in 5120 is will see a Mate in 19.
Now to really see there is Mate in 19/ 20 or not. We can play a few
moves.
Please tell me the move that Black can play after 3. Bd3 which will
not allow white to Mate.
I will arrange that position and see if it finds forced Mate with that
move or not?
You said 3.... Nh6 Can save the Mate. Should I see this move that this
is forced mate or not? Ot do you have some other move to test?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 18 Dec 2008 22:57:16
From: Patrick Volk
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:02:35 -0800 (PST), Sanny
<[email protected] > wrote:
>> > And today it found a Mate in 16 ... 20 which no other Chess Engine
>> > could found. Even Taylor Kingston do not bilieve that the game has
>> > Mate in 16 ... 20
>>
>> � Sanny, let me make this perfectly clear: your program did NOT find
>> any forced mate in 16, or 20, or any number of moves. In the position
>> in question, there is no forced mate in 16 or 20. The fact that you
>> cannot present any supporting analysis, or even say whether the mate
>> is 16 or 20 moves, shows that you're talking through your hat.
>
>Yes I am taking with hat because GetClub ha played 5000 Games and
>whenever it resigns It does when It sees a forced mate in 10-12.
>
>It takes just 10 sec to find Mate in 10. It thought for 1 hour before
>resigning So it resigned after 3600 sec
That statement is bogus. What is your basis?
>
>Time to find a Mate in 11 is double than to find mate in 10.
>Mate in 11 10*2 = 20 sec
>Time to find a Mate in 12 is double than to find mate in 11.
>Mate in 12 20*2 = 40 sec
>
>We continue further.
Off the cliff....
>
>Mate in 13 40*2 = 80 sec
>Mate in 14 80*2 = 160 sec
>Mate in 15 160*2 = 320 sec
>Mate in 16 320*2 = 640 sec
>Mate in 17 640*2 = 1280 sec
>Mate in 18 1280*2 = 2560 sec
>Mate in 19 2560*2 = 5120 sec
It's closer to exponential.
For a first half-move, there's 20 possibilities. 20 in the response.
That's not 40 total possibilities, but 400. Guesstimate 30 possible
responses to that, and you have 12,000. 30 = 360,000. 30 (could be
higher, but we'll stay semi-conservative) = 10,800,000. Black move
(another 30) = 324,000,000
Unless you're using some quantum powerstep processor, it's not going
to scale linearly.
You're program should keep a list of the best lines... if you can dump
it out (line and score), we might be able to help.
Otherwise you're talking through an oriface which doesn't normally
talk.
I also doubt you're going more than 4 ply, based on my analysis. Lucky
if you're really going more than one.
<captainobvious >
This is why you need A-B pruning. If you go to a preset depth, you're
going to burn clock checking all the garbage moves. Run through all
the 1-ply moves, score them, and take the top 10 to the second ply.
Worst case (which seems to be the case here) is you try and run 20 ply
on the first possible move.
Knowing your apparent background, I hope you're not trying to use a
database to store all the possible moves.
</captainobvious >
>
>So in 5120 is will see a Mate in 19.
Riiiiight.
>
>Now to really see there is Mate in 19/ 20 or not. We can play a few
>moves.
>
>Please tell me the move that Black can play after 3. Bd3 which will
>not allow white to Mate.
>
>I will arrange that position and see if it finds forced Mate with that
>move or not?
>
>You said 3.... Nh6 Can save the Mate. Should I see this move that this
>is forced mate or not? Ot do you have some other move to test?
>
>Bye
>Sanny
>
>Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: 18 Dec 2008 23:05:09
From: Bob Campbell
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
"Patrick Volk" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That statement is bogus. What is your basis?
The voices in his head.
Seriously, why do people keep responding to this troll? Just filter him
out. He has no clue.
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Date: 15 Dec 2008 08:42:33
From:
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
On Dec 15, 11:19=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > Sanny once asked what more could be done to improve the program. I
> > think we can now declare that it has reached a pinnacle; there is
> > nothing that can be done to improve on this game. Perhaps it should be
> > left for posterity, and our descendants can pride themselves on how
> > wonderful their programs are compared to what people had to live with
> > in the primitve 21st century.
>
> > Jerry Spinrad-
>
> True now there is no scope of improvement. Lat improvement that was
> done was yesterday. Still if someone complains then the program is
> corrected. But now Its not possible to improve it further.
>
> I am happy to know that GetClub program now give good challenge to
> even strong players.
It does not.
> And today it found a Mate in 16 ... 20 which no other Chess Engine
> could found. Even Taylor Kingston do not bilieve that the game has
> Mate in 16 ... 20
Sanny, let me make this perfectly clear: your program did NOT find
any forced mate in 16, or 20, or any number of moves. In the position
in question, there is no forced mate in 16 or 20. The fact that you
cannot present any supporting analysis, or even say whether the mate
is 16 or 20 moves, shows that you're talking through your hat.
What your program *_did_* find was a suicidal help-mate in one.
Perhaps you should quit trying to make this a playing program, and
instead make it a compositional aid. ;-)
> Nowadays even beginner Level is giving good Challenge to human
> opponents.
>
> Only player who is still unbeatable are those taking help from other
> commercial programs. Now no Human can challenge the higher levels.
>
> I am glad with GetClub Performance. And GetClub will be remembered as
> a best Chess program developed.
If it is at all remembered, it will be for the ludicrous discrepancy
between what it actually can do and what you claim it can do.
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Date: 15 Dec 2008 08:19:26
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
> Sanny once asked what more could be done to improve the program. I
> think we can now declare that it has reached a pinnacle; there is
> nothing that can be done to improve on this game. Perhaps it should be
> left for posterity, and our descendants can pride themselves on how
> wonderful their programs are compared to what people had to live with
> in the primitve 21st century.
>
> Jerry Spinrad-
True now there is no scope of improvement. Lat improvement that was
done was yesterday. Still if someone complains then the program is
corrected. But now Its not possible to improve it further.
I am happy to know that GetClub program now give good challenge to
even strong players.
And today it found a Mate in 16 ... 20 which no other Chess Engine
could found. Even Taylor Kingston do not bilieve that the game has
Mate in 16 ... 20
Nowadays even beginner Level is giving good Challenge to human
opponents.
Only player who is still unbeatable are those taking help from other
commercial programs. Now no Human can challenge the higher levels.
I am glad with GetClub Performance. And GetClub will be remembered as
a best Chess program developed.
And if the improvements continue It will take the crown of top
engines. But that still is too far to say.
Only Time will tell what happens next.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
|
| |
Date: 15 Dec 2008 07:59:44
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
On Dec 13, 10:24=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Peter played against Master Level and win in just 4 moves.
>
> Master level was thinking 1 hour on each move.
>
> Master Level found Mate and Resigned at 4th move.
>
> This is the Shortest mate at GetClub Chess. And may be the worlds
> shortest game
>
> Game Played between peter and master at GetClub.com
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD-----
> peter: (White)
> master: (Black)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM34042&game=
=3DChess
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD-----
>
> White -- Black
> (peter) -- (master)
>
> 1. Nb1-c3{2} d7-d5{0}
> 2. d2-d4{8} f7-f6{2299}
> 3. e2-e3{2} g7-g5{4362}
> 4. Bf1-d3{3} Nb8-d7{3537}
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD-----
> =A0peter: (White)
> master: (Black)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM34042&game=
=3DChess
>
> Was the Game really Forced Mate at 4th move? Was there no move to
> defend the King at 4th move? What do other Chess engines say about
> last move.
>
> Does Rybka/ Fritz see Forced Mate at 4th Move? Since GetClub thought 1
> hour before resigning. It looks like there is Mate in 16/ 18 Which
> Master Level saw and Resigned.
>
> Bye
Sanny once asked what more could be done to improve the program. I
think we can now declare that it has reached a pinnacle; there is
nothing that can be done to improve on this game. Perhaps it should be
left for posterity, and our descendants can pride themselves on how
wonderful their programs are compared to what people had to live with
in the primitve 21st century.
Jerry Spinrad
|
| | |
Date: 18 Dec 2008 22:34:22
From: Patrick Volk
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 07:59:44 -0800 (PST),
"[email protected]" <[email protected] >
wrote:
>On Dec 13, 10:24�am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Peter played against Master Level and win in just 4 moves.
>>
>> Master level was thinking 1 hour on each move.
>>
>> Master Level found Mate and Resigned at 4th move.
>>
>> This is the Shortest mate at GetClub Chess. And may be the worlds
>> shortest game
>>
>> Game Played between peter and master at GetClub.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------�-----
>> peter: (White)
>> master: (Black)
>> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM34042&game=Chess
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------�-----
>>
>> White -- Black
>> (peter) -- (master)
>>
>> 1. Nb1-c3{2} d7-d5{0}
>> 2. d2-d4{8} f7-f6{2299}
>> 3. e2-e3{2} g7-g5{4362}
>> 4. Bf1-d3{3} Nb8-d7{3537}
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------�-----
>> �peter: (White)
>> master: (Black)
>> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM34042&game=Chess
>>
>> Was the Game really Forced Mate at 4th move? Was there no move to
>> defend the King at 4th move? What do other Chess engines say about
>> last move.
>>
>> Does Rybka/ Fritz see Forced Mate at 4th Move? Since GetClub thought 1
>> hour before resigning. It looks like there is Mate in 16/ 18 Which
>> Master Level saw and Resigned.
>>
>> Bye
>
>Sanny once asked what more could be done to improve the program. I
>think we can now declare that it has reached a pinnacle; there is
>nothing that can be done to improve on this game. Perhaps it should be
>left for posterity, and our descendants can pride themselves on how
>wonderful their programs are compared to what people had to live with
>in the primitve 21st century.
I just had a wicked idea... It's so simple it might work...
Sanny, you need to make an OwnGoal level, where you do your best to
lose the game as quickly as possible. Once you get the program
consistently losing in 2-3 moves (not as easy as it sounds), then
theoretically, all you have to do it turn the equalies around, and it
should go from there.
>
>Jerry Spinrad
|
| |
Date: 15 Dec 2008 00:35:47
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
Lazard WON the game in question. Tim Krabb=E9 has this to say at
http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/records/records.htm :
"There are draws in 2, 1 and even 0 moves, forfeited games of 1 move,
joke games of 3 moves and what not, but the shortest decisive game
ever played in a serious tournament is:
1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 c6 3.e3 Qa5+ and White resigned.
It happened in Djordjevic - Kovacevic, Bela Crkva 1984
and Vassallo - Gamundi, tt Spain, Salamanca 1998.
This position occurred more often, and White did not always resign; in
Mory - Hareux, Besan=E7on 1999, he even drew.
But nothing will prevent "Gibaud - Lazard, Paris 1924, 4 moves" being
published as the shortest decisive "master game": 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nd2 e5
3.dxe5 Ng4 4.h3 Ne3 and White resigned. Almost everything is incorrect
about that statement: it was not a master game, White was perhaps not
poor Gibaud, it was not played in 1924, it was 5 instead of 4 moves -
and even at 4 moves, it would have had to share honours with other
games.
What is true is that in his autobiography, Lazard gave a friendly
game "Amateur" - Lazard, played in Paris, "around 1922", which went
1.d4 d5 2.b3 Nf6 3.Nd2 e5 4.dxe5 Ng4 5.h3 Ne3 and White resigned.
Here, 5.h3 is not as stupid a blunder as in the shorter version,
because White could at least have hoped to gain a tempo after 5...Nxe5
6.Bb2. "Amateur" becoming Gibaud, and Gibaud the proverbial patzer, is
not Lazard's fault; he mentioned "a very strong player whose talent is
done no justice by this game."
In fact, Gibaud was champion of France no less than four times. He
didn't like this 4-move game going around with his name attached. And
when in 1937 the British magazine Chess published it as "the shortest
tournament game ever played, from a Paris Championship", he protested
his innocence.
In the next issue, Chess answered: "He never lost any tournament
game in four moves. Searching his memory he recalls a skittles he once
played against Lazard, a game of the most light-hearted variety, in
which, his attention momentarily distracted by the arrival of his
friend Muffang, he played a move which allowed a combination of this
genre - but certainly not four moves after the commencement of the
game. Rumour, he said, must have woven strange tales about this game."
Lazard was of master strength too, but he is better known as a
composer of endgame studies and problems.
An even more understandable variation of this game has occurred
several times: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nd2 e5 3.dxe5 Ng4 4.Ngf3 Be7 5.h3 Ne3 etc. "
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2008 22:56:44
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
> > Since in 1 hour GetClub see till 18-20 depth. I assume it found a mate
> > in 16/ 20 before resigning.
>
> Is there no way of analyzing the stuff that the program found? Cant you
> have it look at the potition again and see if and how it sees a forced
> mate?
If you have Fritz/ Chess Master/ Rybka then you can have them analyze
the position for 1-2 hours and they will tell if there is Mate in 16/
17/ 18/ 19/ 20/ 21 ... or Mate in 25
Master Level took 1 hour to find the Mate it means It will take a very
long time for other Chess Engines to find the Mate. And Humans get
Tired So they cannot see the Mate as they cannot study this position
for 2-3 hours continiously.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2008 14:43:05
From: MeaningWhat
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
Sanny schrieb:
>>> Since in 1 hour GetClub see till 18-20 depth. I assume it found a mate
>>> in 16/ 20 before resigning.
>> Is there no way of analyzing the stuff that the program found? Cant you
>> have it look at the potition again and see if and how it sees a forced
>> mate?
>
> If you have Fritz/ Chess Master/ Rybka then you can have them analyze
> the position for 1-2 hours and they will tell if there is Mate in 16/
> 17/ 18/ 19/ 20/ 21 ... or Mate in 25
>
i know that other chess programs can find a mate if there is one, the
question is WHAT did YOUR programm find? You want to know what YOUR
program did after all. So, let it calculate, look at the output and see
what it found and why exactly it resigned. And for everybodys interest,
post the results here.
THEN you can compare the result with other proven programs and see if it
was the same result or if YOUR program made a fault.
> Master Level took 1 hour to find the Mate it means It will take a very
> long time for other Chess Engines to find the Mate. And Humans get
> Tired So they cannot see the Mate as they cannot study this position
> for 2-3 hours continiously.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
>
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2008 22:53:32
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
> > Has anyone used fritz/ Ryka to find how long it take to find the Mate
> > and What is depth/ ply of Mate?
>
> =A0 Sanny, in the position after 4.Bd3, there is no forced mate to be
> found. Face it, your program just f---ed up (hardly the first time).
Ok whats your move after B-d3 I will setup the board and see what
Master Reply to your move.
As there are 100s of possible moves. I will just show you mate with
the best move by black.
1. Nb1-c3{2} d7-d5{0}
2. d2-d4{8} f7-f6{2299}
3. e2-e3{2} g7-g5{4362}
4. Bf1-d3{3} ?????????
Tell your move and lets see if Master Level can beat you with White or
not? Since you have Fritz8 yoiu can run it for 2 hours and see if
there is any forced Mate or not
GetClub only resigns when there is no way to escape and there is a
Forced Mate otherwise it plays atleast some move and keep the game
open.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2008 20:04:48
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
On Dec 14, 6:24=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Dec 14, 4:48=A0am, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Sanny's game is not merely the shortest game. It is the shortest game
> > by a master.
>
> > Previously, the shortest game by a master went like this:
>
> > 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nd2 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. h3 Ne3
>
> > and now White, the former Champion of France, resigned because his
> > queen is lost. If he plays 5. fxe3 then Qh4+ and mate follows.
>
> Lazard never played any such game.
Lazard claimed that he had never played any such game.
However, this game appears in many books as having been played by
Lazard.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2008 20:00:10
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
On Dec 15, 12:14=A0am, "Alessandro J." <[email protected] > wrote:
> On 14 Dic, 19:15, Offramp <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I wish people would stop saying this was a four-move loss.
> > It was a five-move loss.
> As I understand it, on move 4 Getclub pondered matters at considerable
> length, and after an hour's deliberation came up with the seriously
> flawed 4. ... Nbd7 ??
Getclub did not just think about transient things like "moves".
Getclub also listens to Radiohead albums, and recordings of Samuel
Beckett plays, while on the move.
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2008 16:14:15
From: Alessandro J.
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
On 14 Dic, 19:15, Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
> I wish people would stop saying this was a four-move loss.
> It was a five-move loss.
>
> Alan
As I understand it, on move 4 Getclub pondered matters at considerable
length, and after an hour's deliberation came up with the seriously
flawed 4. ... Nbd7 ??, played it on the board, and realising within
nanoseconds that it allowed mate in 1, had the decency to resign
without waiting for it's opponent's move.
That's a lot better than Kramnik could do against Fritz, and suffered
humiliation at the board by getting checkmated rather than doing the
decent thing and resigning as soon as he played his losing move ;
infact, he didn't even see it, whereas getclub spotted its' blunder
immediately.
New ratings - Master Elo 2822 ( Kramnik's rating + 50 points for
improvement )
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2008 10:15:21
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
I wish people would stop saying this was a four-move loss.
It was a five-move loss.
Alan
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2008 07:11:50
From:
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
On Dec 14, 1:00=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > > After Bd3 there was a Forced Mate in 16/20
What the hell do you mean by "16/20"? Is it mate in 16, or mate in
20? Not at all the same thing.
> > =A0 I don't know where you get that idea, Sanny. Please present your
> > analysis. Certainly after 4.Bd3 White stands better, but Black can
> > defuse the immediate danger with 4...Nh6 or 4...Be6.
> I assume it found a mate
> in 16/ 20 before resigning.
Oh, so you're just *_assuming_* it found a mate. You have no
analysis demonstrating a mate, then. Sanny, you know the joke about
the meaning of "assume," don't you?
> Has anyone used fritz/ Ryka to find how long it take to find the Mate
> and What is depth/ ply of Mate?
Sanny, in the position after 4.Bd3, there is no forced mate to be
found. Face it, your program just f---ed up (hardly the first time).
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2008 05:57:30
From: Alessandro J.
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
On 14 Dic, 10:22, Bjoern <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> Really, you do look icreasingly like a hoax or a parody.
>
> Do we know it's not Tina Fey? Sanny currently seems like an overdone
> parody of his own delusions at the moment.
I've come to the same conclusion a while back ; all evidence points to
the conclusion that " Sanny " is probably a group of people who are on
some internet experiment, as no rational human being would carry
himself in this manner. Having said that, there's a guy over at the
Italian chess newsgroup who has a similar mode of operation, and he
exists for real, so maybe there is some individual somewhere called
Sanjay who is trying to build a super chess program, though I do
wonder about his wellbeing.
I say just take his posts at face value and enjoy them : how more
inconsiderate are Sanny's comedic gems to the constant mud slinging
that goes on amongst some of the regulars ? At least they are not long
winded, and any one with a small understanding of chess can enjoy
them, though recently he really is going over the top, this last 4
move loss really does seem far too contrived, for anyone's standards.
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2008 03:24:43
From:
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
On Dec 14, 4:48=A0am, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> Sanny's game is not merely the shortest game. It is the shortest game
> by a master.
>
> Previously, the shortest game by a master went like this:
>
> 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nd2 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. h3 Ne3
>
> and now White, the former Champion of France, resigned because his
> queen is lost. If he plays 5. fxe3 then Qh4+ and mate follows.
Lazard never played any such game.
|
| |
Date: 14 Dec 2008 02:48:45
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
Sanny's game is not merely the shortest game. It is the shortest game
by a master.
Previously, the shortest game by a master went like this:
1. d4 Nf6 2. Nd2 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. h3 Ne3
and now White, the former Champion of France, resigned because his
queen is lost. If he plays 5. fxe3 then Qh4+ and mate follows.
Sanny's master program has shortened that record by one move.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 13 Dec 2008 22:09:50
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
> Would it be possible to get Peter's views on the game? Can you contact
> him?-
Peter visits this newsgroup often. I am sure he will read and reply
very soon. He has told us that he uses Glaurang to compete with
GetClub. Which is very strong and can beat the higher levels of
GetClub.
Other players do not play even with Easy & Normal Levels only a few
with Commercial Chess programs try the Master Level.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
|
| | |
Date: 14 Dec 2008 10:22:48
From: Bjoern
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
Sanny wrote:
>> Would it be possible to get Peter's views on the game? Can you contact
>> him?-
>
> Peter visits this newsgroup often. I am sure he will read and reply
> very soon.
Probably not. It seems quite probably that he's died of laughter.
Sanny wrote:
> I only showyou the games where GetClub looses. While there are many
> games where it has won and I do not post them here. Because to improve
> GetClub I have to focus on lost games and not those which he wins.
What games has it won recently? Looking at the front page it seems like
it has won 3 games out of the last 50 games played (!!!). That is
stunningly pathetic.
Just download GnuChess for free and use it to analyze the games, it's
not like it needs human insight or a commerical program to point out how
badly GetClub plays.
Really, you do look icreasingly like a hoax or a parody.
Do we know it's not Tina Fey? Sanny currently seems like an overdone
parody of his own delusions at the moment.
|
| |
Date: 13 Dec 2008 22:00:16
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
> > After Bd3 there was a Forced Mate in 16/20
>
> =A0 I don't know where you get that idea, Sanny. Please present your
> analysis. Certainly after 4.Bd3 White stands better, but Black can
> defuse the immediate danger with 4...Nh6 or 4...Be6.
Master Level Resigned after thinking 1 hour. GetClub resigns only when
It has found a forced Mate. Since It took 1 hour to find this Mate I
assume It found Mate after 16 - 20 ply.
Normally Beginner Level sees Mate in 10-12
Normally Easy Level sees Mate in 12-14
Normally Normal Level sees Mate in 14-16
Normally Master Level sees Mate in 16-18
Since in 1 hour GetClub see till 18-20 depth. I assume it found a mate
in 16/ 20 before resigning.
Peter uses another Chess Program Glaurang which is very fast and can
easily beat the higher Levels of GetClub.
Has anyone used fritz/ Ryka to find how long it take to find the Mate
and What is depth/ ply of Mate?
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
|
| | |
Date: 15 Dec 2008 03:48:11
From: MeaningWhat
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
Sanny schrieb:
>>> After Bd3 there was a Forced Mate in 16/20
>> I don't know where you get that idea, Sanny. Please present your
>> analysis. Certainly after 4.Bd3 White stands better, but Black can
>> defuse the immediate danger with 4...Nh6 or 4...Be6.
>
> Master Level Resigned after thinking 1 hour. GetClub resigns only when
> It has found a forced Mate. Since It took 1 hour to find this Mate I
> assume It found Mate after 16 - 20 ply.
>
> Normally Beginner Level sees Mate in 10-12
> Normally Easy Level sees Mate in 12-14
> Normally Normal Level sees Mate in 14-16
> Normally Master Level sees Mate in 16-18
>
> Since in 1 hour GetClub see till 18-20 depth. I assume it found a mate
> in 16/ 20 before resigning.
>
Is there no way of analyzing the stuff that the program found? Cant you
have it look at the potition again and see if and how it sees a forced
mate?
> Peter uses another Chess Program Glaurang which is very fast and can
> easily beat the higher Levels of GetClub.
>
> Has anyone used fritz/ Ryka to find how long it take to find the Mate
> and What is depth/ ply of Mate?
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>
>
>
|
| |
Date: 13 Dec 2008 14:52:36
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
Right at the last knockings, this thread is the funniest I have read
this year. It is so - what? - Clouseau-like.
|
| |
Date: 13 Dec 2008 13:30:09
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
On Dec 13, 4:01=A0pm, Offramp <[email protected] > wrote:
> Would it be possible to get Peter's views on the game? Can you contact
> him?
One suspects that "Peter" might actually
have been GetClub's own Baby level, for it
set up for a mate-in-twenty faster than any
known commercial program ever could.
We're not talking leading-edge here; we're
talking /bleeding-edge/ stuff. Rybka team:
eat your hearts out.
-- help bot
|
| |
Date: 13 Dec 2008 13:21:21
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
On Dec 13, 12:59=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> > After Bd3 there was a Forced Mate in 16/20
> =A0 I don't know where you get that idea, Sanny. Please present your
> analysis. Certainly after 4.Bd3 White stands better, but Black can
> defuse the immediate danger with 4...Nh6 or 4...Be6.
>
> > What do other Chess engines
> > say after analyzing 1 hour?
>
> =A0 Neither Fritz8 nor Rybka see any forced mate in 16 or 20.
Obviously, either Rybka and Fritz need work,
or else we can safely conclude that Sanny has
finally mastered tactics to the point where his
contraption is, just like Ace Ventura, the best
there is -- at tactics.
Now Master level resigns even before Rybka
has a clue why. This is the latest installment
in a long line of "improvements" by Sanny's
crack programming team. Their motto:
"Nobody does it better".
-- help bot
|
| |
Date: 13 Dec 2008 13:01:00
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
|
On Dec 13, 4:24=A0pm, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Peter played against Master Level and win in just 4 moves.
>
> Master level was thinking 1 hour on each move.
>
> Master Level found Mate and Resigned at 4th move.
>
> This is the Shortest mate at GetClub Chess. And may be the worlds
> shortest game
>
> Game Played between peter and master at GetClub.com
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
> peter: (White)
> master: (Black)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM34042&game=
=3DChess
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
>
> White -- Black
> (peter) -- (master)
>
> 1. Nb1-c3{2} d7-d5{0}
> 2. d2-d4{8} f7-f6{2299}
> 3. e2-e3{2} g7-g5{4362}
> 4. Bf1-d3{3} Nb8-d7{3537}
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
> =A0peter: (White)
> master: (Black)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM34042&game=
=3DChess
>
> Was the Game really Forced Mate at 4th move? Was there no move to
> defend the King at 4th move? What do other Chess engines say about
> last move.
>
> Does Rybka/ Fritz see Forced Mate at 4th Move? Since GetClub thought 1
> hour before resigning. It looks like there is Mate in 16/ 18 Which
> Master Level saw and Resigned.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Would it be possible to get Peter's views on the game? Can you contact
him?
|
| |
Date: 13 Dec 2008 12:04:25
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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On Dec 13, 5:11=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> =A0 This is not the shortest game ever. Aside from, say, a time forfeit
> where no moves at all are made,
Oddly enough, this jewel-like game may have set one record.
White took 15 seconds for all his moves.
Black took in all 2 hours and 50 minutes, including just under an hour
for the memorable 4...Nd7??? which allowed a mate in 1.
Has any other game which ended in mate on move 5 had a time
differential of 2h 50 mins?
(Black is pondering his 4th move)
Arbiter: " I am sorry Master Getclub... You have lost on time!"
"Master Getclub: "But I was just about to play Nd7!"
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Date: 13 Dec 2008 11:47:17
From: Offramp
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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The memoravle game in pgn
[Event "Getclub"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.12.13"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Peter"]
[Black "Getclub, Master Level"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D00"]
[BlackElo "2400"]
[Annotator "Taylor Kingston & Offramp"]
[PlyCount "9"]
[EventDate "2008.12.12"]
[EventType "game"]
[EventCountry "USA"]
[SourceDate "2008.12.13"]
1. Nc3 {This could be the worst of the top ten opening moves} d5
{...And this
is the best reply. "This is fine, probably the best reply to White's
somewhat
eccentric opening." - Taylor Kingston} 2. d4 {Played after 8 seconds
thought.
"OK, now we're heading toward the Veresov System. Black has many good
replies
here, including 2...Nf6, 2...Bf5, 2...e6 (which after 3.e5 transposes
to the
French), 2...c6 (which after 3.e4 transposes to the Caro-Kann), 2...f5
(which
transposes to the Dutch),and even 2...e5!?, an interesting gambit seen
in
Watson-Bellin, Blackpool Open 1978, and before that in Hachaturov-
Shavlyuk,
Moscow Central CC semi-final 1960." - Taylor Kingston. Getclub Master
now
thought for 38 and a half minutes before replying} f6 {!? "Eh? Not
mentioned in
Bellin's "Queens Pawn: Veresov System," and probably for good reason.
It's no
good trying to enforce e7-e5 right now, because after d4xe5 Black's d-
pawn is
hanging. The text move does little besides hinder Black's development
by
taking f6 away from his knight." - Taylor Kingston} 3. e3 {Played
after 2
seconds thought. "Nothing especially good or bad about this move."
Taylor
Kingston.} g5 {?? 73 minutes thought went into this. "But there is
everything bad about this! Sanny, your so-called "master-level"
program is
playing like an idiot. Aside from perhaps 3...Bg4, this is probably
the worst
move on the board." - Taylor Kingston} 4. Bd3 {3 seconds on this.} ({
"It's unclear why White does not immediately play} 4. Qh5+ Kd7 5. h4 {
starting a lethal attack." - Taylor Kingston} ({or} 5. e4)) {
Getclub Master now pondered its position for 59 minutes before
uncorking} 4...
Nd7 {??? "No "perhaps" about it, this IS the worst move on the board,
the
knight occupying the king's only flight square. Apparently the
"master" level
cannot see a mate in one. Relatively best was 4...Nh6, so that if
5.Qh5+ Nf7,
though White would still stand better. But now it's all over.} 5. Qh5#
{
Times: White: 15 seconds. Black: 2 hrs 50 mins. Possibly the largest
ever
time difference in a game that ended in mate on the 5th move. Peter
must be
thinking what an incredibly easy game this chess is. Back to the
drawing board!
} 1-0
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Date: 13 Dec 2008 11:22:45
From:
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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On Dec 13, 12:29=A0pm, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Nd7 is the last move played at random before resign. Since all moves
> lead to Mate in 16/ 20 it resigned playing a random move.
Just assuming for the sake of argument that after 4.Bd3 White does
have a forced mate in at most 20 moves, it's still absolute
foolishness for your program then to play a move that allows a mate in
one. Very few grandmasters, let alone the kind of person who plays
GetClub, can see all the way to a mate in 20, and they are very
unlikely to find it at the board.
Rather than giving up immmediately, your program should play on,
finding the best moves it can, whether a distant mate is possible or
not. Instead, it committed suicide at the first sign of trouble.
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Date: 13 Dec 2008 09:59:26
From:
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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On Dec 13, 12:29=A0pm, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > =A0 4.Bd3
>
> > =A0 It's unclear why White does not immediately play 4.Qh5+ Kd7 followe=
d
> > by 5.h4 or 5.e4, starting a lethal attack.
>
> After Bd3 there was a Forced Mate in 16/20
I don't know where you get that idea, Sanny. Please present your
analysis. Certainly after 4.Bd3 White stands better, but Black can
defuse the immediate danger with 4...Nh6 or 4...Be6.
> What do other Chess engines
> say after analyzing 1 hour?
Neither Fritz8 nor Rybka see any forced mate in 16 or 20.
> > =A0 4...Nd7???
>
> > =A0 No "perhaps" about it, this IS the worst move on the board, the
> > knight occupying the king's only flight square. Apparently the
> > "master" level cannot see a mate in one. Relatively best was 4...Nh6,
> > so that if 5.Qh5+ Nf7, though White would still stand better. But now
> > it's all over.
>
> Nd7 is the last move played at random before resign. Since all moves
> lead to Mate in 16/ 20 it resigned playing a random move.
Again, I'd like to see what analysis you have demonstrating this
forced mate in 16.
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Date: 13 Dec 2008 09:29:19
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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> =A0 4.Bd3
>
> =A0 It's unclear why White does not immediately play 4.Qh5+ Kd7 followed
> by 5.h4 or 5.e4, starting a lethal attack.
After Bd3 there was a Forced Mate in 16/20 What do other Chess engines
say after analyzing 1 hour?
> =A0 4...Nd7???
>
> =A0 No "perhaps" about it, this IS the worst move on the board, the
> knight occupying the king's only flight square. Apparently the
> "master" level cannot see a mate in one. Relatively best was 4...Nh6,
> so that if 5.Qh5+ Nf7, though White would still stand better. But now
> it's all over.
Nd7 is the last move played at random before resign. Since all moves
lead to Mate in 16/ 20 it resigned playing a random move.
How much time does Fritz took to find a forced Mate? Master took 1
hour to see Mate in 16 / 20
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 13 Dec 2008 09:11:32
From:
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game. (Mate in 4 moves)
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On Dec 13, 11:24=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Peter played against Master Level and win in just 4 moves.
>
> Master level was thinking 1 hour on each move.
>
> Master Level found Mate and Resigned at 4th move.
>
> This is the Shortest mate at GetClub Chess. And may be the worlds
> shortest game
>
> Game Played between peter and master at GetClub.com
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD-----
> peter: (White)
> master: (Black)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM34042&game=
=3DChess
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD-----
>
> White -- Black
> (peter) -- (master)
>
> 1. Nb1-c3{2} d7-d5{0}
> 2. d2-d4{8} f7-f6{2299}
> 3. e2-e3{2} g7-g5{4362}
> 4. Bf1-d3{3} Nb8-d7{3537}
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD-----
> =A0peter: (White)
> master: (Black)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM34042&game=
=3DChess
>
> Was the Game really Forced Mate at 4th move? Was there no move to
> defend the King at 4th move? What do other Chess engines say about
> last move.
>
> Does Rybka/ Fritz see Forced Mate at 4th Move? Since GetClub thought 1
> hour before resigning. It looks like there is Mate in 16/ 18 Which
> Master Level saw and Resigned.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
This is not the shortest game ever. Aside from, say, a time forfeit
where no moves at all are made, the shortest possible game played to
mate is on along these lines: 1.g4 e5 2.f4??? Qh4#.
Your "master" level fell victim to the same theme.
1.Nc3 d5
This is fine, probably the best reply to White's somewhat eccentric
opening.
2.d4
OK, now we're heading toward the Veresov System. Black has many good
replies here, including 2...Nf6, 2...Bf5, 2...e6 (which after 3.e5
transposes to the French), 2...c6 (which after 3.e4 transposes to the
Caro-Kann), 2...f5 (which transposes to the Dutch),and even 2...e5!?,
an interesting gambit seen in Watson-Bellin, Blackpool Open 1978, and
before that in Hachaturov-Shavlyuk, Moscow Central CC semi-final
1960.
2...f6?!
Eh? Not mentioned in Bellin's "Queens Pawn: Veresov System," and
probably for good reason. It's no good trying to enforce e7-e5 right
now, because after d4xe5 Black's d-pawn is hanging. The text move does
little besides hinder Black's development by taking f6 away from his
knight.
3.e3
Nothing especially good or bad about this move.
3...g5??
But there is everything bad about this! Sanny, your so-called
"master-level" program is playing like an idiot. Aside from perhaps
3...Bg4, this is probably the worst move on the board.
4.Bd3
It's unclear why White does not immediately play 4.Qh5+ Kd7 followed
by 5.h4 or 5.e4, starting a lethal attack.
4...Nd7???
No "perhaps" about it, this IS the worst move on the board, the
knight occupying the king's only flight square. Apparently the
"master" level cannot see a mate in one. Relatively best was 4...Nh6,
so that if 5.Qh5+ Nf7, though White would still stand better. But now
it's all over.
5.Qh5 mate.
And Sanny claims what, a 2400 rating for this level? Whack off about
2000 points, I'd say.
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Date: 13 Dec 2008 08:58:03
From: jefk
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest Chess Game/worlds worst chess program ?
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brilliant game, Sanny (or was it someone
pretending to be you maybe);
ah well, here's my response; well done by getclub to achieve nr 1
placing for worlds worst chess program; but it could have done better:
after 1.Nc3 ? (d4 would be faster) f6!
2.e4 g5!!
3. Qh5 mate
maybe you can adjust your opening book in such
a way that you are mated in a faster way.
and btw, its not losing chess what its playing,
than usually pieces are given away,
see eg. the sjeng version of losing/give-away chess.
best regards
jef
PS why did you post this in rec.games.chess.politics ?
do you want your program to play like Sam Sloan ?
then you might try the Damiano defence;
also lots of fun..
:)
On 13 dec, 17:24, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Peter played against Master Level and win in just 4 moves.
>
> Master level was thinking 1 hour on each move.
>
> Master Level found Mate and Resigned at 4th move.
>
> This is the Shortest mate at GetClub Chess. And may be the worlds
> shortest game
>
> Game Played between peter and master at GetClub.com
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
> peter: (White)
> master: (Black)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM34042&game=
=3DChess
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
>
> White -- Black
> (peter) -- (master)
>
> 1. Nb1-c3{2} d7-d5{0}
> 2. d2-d4{8} f7-f6{2299}
> 3. e2-e3{2} g7-g5{4362}
> 4. Bf1-d3{3} Nb8-d7{3537}
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
> =A0peter: (White)
> master: (Black)
> Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
> View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM34042&game=
=3DChess
>
> Was the Game really Forced Mate at 4th move? Was there no move to
> defend the King at 4th move? What do other Chess engines say about
> last move.
>
> Does Rybka/ Fritz see Forced Mate at 4th Move? Since GetClub thought 1
> hour before resigning. It looks like there is Mate in 16/ 18 Which
> Master Level saw and Resigned.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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