Promoting chess discussion.
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Chess Forum Promoting chess discussion. |
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(NoMoreChess) wrote: > Yes; and the happy-medium would be a player who sometimes grabs material in >order to win, In my day, I won a lot more games than I lost by grabbing a pawn. One of my favorite things was to beat them with that pawn! ------------------------------------- Replace you know what by "j" to email. |
>In my day, About 1963, as I recall. :-) >...I won a lot more games than I lost by grabbing a pawn. One >of my favorite things was to beat them with that pawn! Many players become desperate upon losing a mere pawn, and play recklessly for attack upon the enemy King. Unfortunately, this can sometimes lead to a lucky, "brilliant-looking" win, by the total fish who earlier had blindly overlooked the loss of a pawn. :-) |
(NoMoreChess) wrote: >>In my day, > > > About 1963, as I recall. :-) That's not too far off. :-( ------------------------------------- Replace you know what by "j" to email. |
(NoMoreChess) wrote: > Bobby Fischer, in his early years, was an example of a famous player who >often leaned toward pawn-grubbing as a handy means to victory over his >opponents. In his one and only game with the great Botvinnik, Bobby snatched a >pawn from the grand old master, right in the opening! Even against Boris >Spassky in 1968 or 1969, Fischer grabbed -- and stubbornly held onto -- an >extra pawn in a King's Gambit, only to lose by a pawn-grubber's nose. :-) But he almost beat Botvinnik because of that extra pawn. (He said that he should have.) ------------------------------------- Replace you know what by "j" to email. |
>But he almost beat Botvinnik because of that extra pawn. (He said >that he should have.) In most of Bobby's "failures," (and this could include "only" drawing Botvinnik), his many fans attempted to "justify" things somehow. For example, when Fischer allowed his Bishop to be trapped (on h2) against Spassky, half the world tried to "prove" that he had not thrown the game away by a hideous tactical oversight. As I seem to recall, it was Botvinnik who maintained that Bobby should have, with proper play, won the *actual* ending in their game. Bobby, OTOH, maintained that he was "winning" in a Queen ending which never arose, but could possibly have arisen. All the study thereafter seems to have eroded his contention, including later work by Kasparov, who "found (yet) another way to draw." Unfortunately, DeepBlue never rendered a "final solution" on this matter, but I am confident that one day, computers (Fritz 129.6) will solve it. BTW, that game against Botvinnik was NOT a good example of the lowly, pawn-grubbing style, for the pawn that Fischer (quite brilliantly) won in the opening, was taken in the violent fracas of heated battle, not scraped-up from the chessboard, like roadkill, for possum-stew. |
(NoMoreChess) wrote: > As I seem to recall, it was Botvinnik who maintained that Bobby should have, >with proper play, won the *actual* ending in their game. I played through it quickly today from Fischer's book. It sort of implied that Botvinnik thought Fischer should have won before adjournment, but by that time it was drawn. > BTW, that game against Botvinnik was NOT a good example of the lowly, >pawn-grubbing style, for the pawn that Fischer (quite brilliantly) won in the >opening, ... Right. Someone else mentioned it as an example. ------------------------------------- Replace you know what by "j" to email. |
[email protected]... > >When I think of "grubbing," I think of a gorilla picking (poking) at an old > >rotten log, looking for grubs > Yes; and the happy-medium would be a player who sometimes grabs material in > order to win, sometimes sacrifices for the initiative, and sometimes neither of > the above -- depending purely upon his position, not his predisposition. Thank you all. Fred |
> "Ajeje Brazov" <[email protected]> wrote: >> I'm not an English native speaker and I found in a book the sentence *pawn >> grubbing style* that I can't understand, even with the use of a good >> dictionary (the word grub is obscure to me). Please can you help me to >> understand what kind of style is the author talking about? > > When I think of "grubbing," I think of a gorilla picking (poking) at an > old rotten log, looking for grubs (wormlike insects). Perhaps the verb > has taken on a less-visual meaning, but in the context of "pawn > grubbing" I would guess a style of play in chess often called "pawn > hunting" where a player looks to gain material wherever he can find it > and hold on. I think it's probably something like that, yes. To grub is to dig at the surface of the ground looking for food, which doesn't really make sense in terms of capturing pawns -- you don't have to go looking for them. A more usual term would be `pawn grabbing', which would be capturing pawns at any opportunity. There's another possible meaning by analogy with `money-grubber', an old term, now out of use, for somebody who is very mean. So a pawn-grubber could be somebody who will never give away even a pawn for any reason. I think the first meaning is more likely but it's a rather confusing term even for a native speaker! In common usage, a grub is an insect larva (a baby insect, like a worm) and grub is a slang term for food. Dave. -- David Richerby Generic Book (TM): it's like a www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ romantic novel but it's just like all the others! |
<[email protected] > wrote: >There's another possible meaning by analogy with `money-grubber', an old >term, now out of use, for somebody who is very mean. So a pawn-grubber >could be somebody who will never give away even a pawn for any reason. I >think the first meaning is more likely but it's a rather confusing term >even for a native speaker! I still see "money-grubber" (or "moneygrubber") and "money-grubbing" being used. They aren't obsolete terms just yet. Tony |
> David Richerby <[email protected]> wrote: >> There's another possible meaning by analogy with `money-grubber', an >> old term, now out of use, for somebody who is very mean. > > I still see "money-grubber" (or "moneygrubber") and "money-grubbing" > being used. They aren't obsolete terms just yet. Yes, you're right. I misread the dictionary: what it actually says is that `grub' is an obsolete synonym for `moneygrubber'. I'm not quite sure why my own experience that `moneygrubber' is, indeed, current didn't override this mistake. :-) Dave. -- David Richerby Addictive Psychotic Vomit (TM): it's www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a pile of puke but it wants to kill you and you can never put it down! |
<[email protected] > wrote: >When I think of "grubbing," I think of a gorilla picking (poking) at an old >rotten log, looking for grubs (wormlike insects). Perhaps the verb has taken >on a less-visual meaning, but in the context of "pawn grubbing" ... It also might be a corruption of "grabbing", with bad connotations intended. ------------------------------------- Replace you know what by "j" to email. |