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Date: 25 Apr 2005 16:48:35
From: Lee Harris
Subject: Can you identify computer play?
If I play online with someone, and suspect they are using some program in
the background, is there a way that you can tell or at least strongly
suggest they are doing so?






 
Date: 01 May 2005 15:26:11
From: Error Flink
Subject: Re: Can you identify computer play?
Ron is absolutely correct. I don't know why people repeat that way too
simple "Fritz agreements" idea all the time. Didn't they ever study a
random master game from the old days, where computers didn't even exist
yet...? I mean, it should be obvious that, for example, Chigorin wasn't
a computer cheater :-) Still, you'll find many of his middle- and
endgame moves among Fritz' 3 multi-pv variants. The better his moves
are, the more often Fritz will agree.

Today's chess programs are strong, because they can make the same moves
like strong humans do. Which means, strong humans will often make moves
which good progs will play es well. It's not so simple. You have to
search for deep, difficult tactics played within short time, and even
then you need to find more than one or two examples before it creates a
reasonable suspicion.

Also, it may be that the cheater doesn't use Fritz but another engine,
and/or custom settings resulting in disagreements with a default Fritz.



 
Date: 01 May 2005 22:56:01
From: bruno
Subject: Re: Can you identify computer play?
Save the game and then run it trough fritz and compare it with the moves you
see in fritz analysis.
If most of the moves are in one of the top 3 lines of fritz you can be
pretty sure he used a computer.
Also if he uses a few seconds for dead obvious moves and takes about the
same amount of time for each move you should be suspicious.


"Lee Harris" <[email protected] > schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]
> If I play online with someone, and suspect they are using some program in
> the background, is there a way that you can tell or at least strongly
> suggest they are doing so?
>




  
Date: 01 May 2005 21:36:36
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Can you identify computer play?
In article <[email protected] >,
"bruno" <[email protected] > wrote:

> Save the game and then run it trough fritz and compare it with the moves you
> see in fritz analysis.
> If most of the moves are in one of the top 3 lines of fritz you can be
> pretty sure he used a computer.

This is absolute bullshit.

In most games between reasonably strong players, most moves will be one
of Fritz's top three choices. Not all of their moves, of course, but a
hell of a lot will be.

That being said, one sign that someone ISN'T a computer is that they
three-and-four move tactics (whether or not you saw them) - so analyzing
with fritz can be useful. Similarly, computers don't make speculative
sacrifices, so either of the above can be used to rule out computer play.

Computers show themselves the most in endgames and in closed positions,
particularly when they don't have a lot of time.


   
Date: 02 May 2005 01:40:28
From: bruno
Subject: Re: Can you identify computer play?
> This is absolute bullshit.
>
> In most games between reasonably strong players, most moves will be one
> of Fritz's top three choices. Not all of their moves, of course, but a
> hell of a lot will be.


I'm a helper at worldchessnetwork.com and I know that's the way they check
computer users.
And I know strong players will play a lot of the same moves, but if in a
blitz game somebody plays consistently all fritz moves even in positions
with many possible alternatives then he is most likely using a computer.




 
Date: 25 Apr 2005 19:53:30
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Can you identify computer play?
In article <[email protected] >,
"Lee Harris" <[email protected] > wrote:

> If I play online with someone, and suspect they are using some program in
> the background, is there a way that you can tell or at least strongly
> suggest they are doing so?

Occasionally -- but, it's really hard.

As someone who's been accused of using a computer online (because I have
horrid bughouse rating, a good standard rating, and I like increments),
I want to encourage you to be very, very careful throwing accusations
around.

There are some situations where it's obvious -- particularly in closed
positions, where a computer will just make a completely nonsensical
move, especially when short on time. There are other situations where
it's obvious in the other direction: unsound sacrifices, etc. But most
of the time it's very hard to tell.

Furthermore, most of the accusations I've seen have been based on a
player who hangs material one game executing a pretty combination in
another, or a player playing a series of very weak games followed by a
series of very strong one. But in my experience, both of those things
happen fairly regularly to a lot of class players, particularly in
short, online games.

If you want to post the game, I'm sure some folks here will be happy to
take a look at it, and if there's anything obvious they'll say so.

-Ron


 
Date: 25 Apr 2005 20:28:53
From: Antonio Torrecillas
Subject: Re: Can you identify computer play?
En/na Lee Harris ha escrit:
> If I play online with someone, and suspect they are using some program in
> the background, is there a way that you can tell or at least strongly
> suggest they are doing so?

You can post here the MAX information about that player and the games
and sure anyone here has something to say.

In my opinion the best test is the opinion of an strong player who knows
well how different is computer play to human play.

AT