Main
Date: 06 May 2005 15:01:26
From: Denis
Subject: Is this endgame a draw? I ask for advice.
Dear chess friends:

In a recent game, playing the white pieces, I
reached the following position which I considered
a draw. But still, I am not sure if I overlooked
some posibility. I ask if someone could provide
an opinion about this position.



+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
8




 
Date: 08 May 2005 00:19:13
From: Denis
Subject: Re: Is this endgame a draw? I ask for advice.
Thank you Claus-Juergen.

Your answer has helped me a lot! I have the idea, but I don't know why
is a draw position. Now, I am clear that I conducted the game
incorrectly, because in previous moves I allowed the black pawn to
advance on square.

Thanks again.

Denis J. Navas



 
Date: 07 May 2005 08:35:50
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Is this endgame a draw? I ask for advice.
In article <[email protected] >,
"Denis" <[email protected] > wrote:

> 8/6k1/8/2r3PP/2p2K2/2R5/8/8 w - - 0 1

Looks like a draw to me; there are plenty of stronger players here who
might want to weigh in, but I simply can't see a way either player can
improve his position:

The white king is tied to the defense of the g-pawn. The black king
can't move away from the kingside because of the threat of h6-h7-h8. The
passed pawn advances if white moves his rook, and the black rook is
optimally placed both supporting the passed pawn and attacking the white
g-pawn - a nice example of the value of rook activity.

So the only real options are for white to pick an optimal moment to push
a pawn.

1.h6 Kg6 and the pawns come off, drawn.

So that leaves a g-pawn push, which obviously doesn't work right away
because of Rxh6 (2.Rxc4?? Rh4+ wins).

So 1.Kg4 Kh7 2.g6 Kg6 looks like a pretty solid defense. Black
threatens to take all the pawns off with 3. ... Rxh5 4.Rxc4 Rg5+ (not
Kxg6 Rc6+).

And if there was any doubt about white holding the draw, you can prove
it by sacrificing your pawns to win the black pawn.

1.Ke4! (threatens Kd4 & Rxc4) leaving black nothing better than Rxg5
2.Rxc4 Rxh5.


  
Date: 07 May 2005 15:30:07
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Claus-J=FCrgen_Heigl?=
Subject: Re: Is this endgame a draw? I ask for advice.
Ron wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Denis" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>8/6k1/8/2r3PP/2p2K2/2R5/8/8 w - - 0 1
> 1.h6 Kg6 and the pawns come off, drawn.

White can push the pawns to the 6th rank, but Black has enough
counterplay with the c-pawn.

1. Ra3 c3 2. h6+ Kg8 (2...Kg6 3. Ra6+ Kh7 4. Ra7+ Kg8 (4...Kg6?? 5. Rg7+
Kh5 6. h7 +-) 5. g6 makes no difference) 3. g6 Rc8 4. Ra1 c2 5. Rc1 Rc5
6. Ke4 Kh8 7. Kd4 Rg5 =

I also think the position is a draw.

Claus-Juergen


   
Date: 07 May 2005 15:17:33
From: Philip Feeley
Subject: Re: Is this endgame a draw? I ask for advice.
Claus-Jürgen Heigl wrote:

> Ron wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> "Denis" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> 8/6k1/8/2r3PP/2p2K2/2R5/8/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>> 1.h6 Kg6 and the pawns come off, drawn.
>
>
> White can push the pawns to the 6th rank, but Black has enough
> counterplay with the c-pawn.
>
> 1. Ra3 c3 2. h6+ Kg8 (2...Kg6 3. Ra6+ Kh7 4. Ra7+ Kg8 (4...Kg6?? 5. Rg7+
> Kh5 6. h7 +-) 5. g6 makes no difference) 3. g6 Rc8 4. Ra1 c2 5. Rc1 Rc5
> 6. Ke4 Kh8 7. Kd4 Rg5 =
>
> I also think the position is a draw.
>
> Claus-Juergen

How do you know when RPP against rp is a win or a draw? I know this
should be a simple question and that is just depends on the position of
the pieces, but what would you look for to determine?

Phil


    
Date: 08 May 2005 02:50:08
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Claus-J=FCrgen_Heigl?=
Subject: Re: Is this endgame a draw? I ask for advice.
Philip Feeley wrote:
> How do you know when RPP against rp is a win or a draw? I know this
> should be a simple question and that is just depends on the position of
> the pieces, but what would you look for to determine?

Basically this type of endgame is determined by the chance to queen a
pawn. In this case the white rook has to guard the black c-pawn which is
supported by the black rook. So the white rook is very limited to
support the advance of the white pawns. The only piece left to support
the pawns is the king, but it can be blocked by the black rook. If the
white king leaves the pawns alone to drive the black rook off, Black's
rook and king can successfully attack the white pawns. Also the black
king helps to control the advance of the pawns.

The position of the black king and pawn is far more important than the
position of the black rook in this endgame. In the original position,
the black rook, king and pawn are placed ideally. The black king is in
front of the white pawns to stop them, the black pawn is advanced enough
to let the black rook guard against an advance of the white king and the
black rook supports an advance of the c-pawn which restricts the white rook.

Some examples how the situation changes if the position is slightly altered.

Black's pawn not advanced enough:
2r5/6k1/8/2p3PP/2R2K2/8/8/8 w - -
The Black rook can't access c5 to create threats against the white
pawns. White can push his pawns.
1. Kg4! The white pawns need the support of the king. The king advances
on the h-file protected from checks by his pawns. 1...Rc6 2. Ra4! c4 3.
h6+ Kh7 (3...Kg6 4. Ra7 threat Rg7 mate) 4. Kh5 Rc5 (4...c3 5. g6+ Rxg6
6. Ra7+) 5. Ra7+ Kh8 6. h7 and there is no defense against Kh6 and g6-g7
mate.

This plan doesn't work with the black pawn at c4 because Black can drive
the white king away: 2r5/6k1/8/6PP/2p2K2/2R5/8/8 w - -

1. Kg4 Rc6 2. Ra3 c3 3. h6+ Kg6 4. Ra7?? Rc4+ 5. Kg3 c2 and Black wins.

Black king is too far away: 8/3k4/8/2r3PP/2p2K2/2R5/8/8 w - -
White wins easily: 1. h6 Ke7 (1...Ke6 2. g6 Kf6 3. g7 Rc8 4. Rg3 c3 5.
h7 c2 6. Rg1 c1Q+ 7. Rxc1 and wins) 2. h7 Rc8 3. Kf5 Kf7 (3...Rc5+ 4.
Kg6 followed by Kg7) 4. Rxc4! wins.

Black rook is away but black pawn is advanced:
8/6k1/8/6PP/r1p2K2/2R5/8/8 w - -
Black's rook can control the 5th rank, so the white king can't advance.
If the white king leaves his pawns to attack the black pawn Black can
disrupt the white pawn formation and block the pawns.
1. Ke4 (1. Ke5 Ra5+ and the white king has to return) 1...Ra5 2. Rg3 (2.
Kf4 Rc5 =) 2...c3 3. Kd3 Ra2 (3...c2 4. Kxc2 Ra2+ plan Rh2 is also
drawn) 4. Rg4 Rh2 5. h6+ Kg6 6. Kxc3 Re2 draw because White can't secure
his king against checks without leaving the pawns unprotected.

Black rook away and pawn not advanced:
8/r1p3k1/8/6PP/5K2/2R5/8/8 w - -
White wins because Black can't control 5th and 6th rank. The white king
intrudes and supports the pawns.
1. h6+ Kh7 2. Rc6 Rb7 3. Kf5 Ra7 4. Kf6 Ra8 (4...Rb7 5. g6+ Kxh6 6. g7
Kh7 7. Kf7 Rb8 8. Rc1 threat Rh1 mate 8...Kh6 9. g8Q +-) 5. Rxc7+ Kg8 6.
g6. The pawns have assumed their ideal position side by side and Black
isn't able to stop them.

An important point is that the endgame KRPPKR is won for White if both
pawns are still on the 5th rank, but it is drawn if the h-pawn has
already advanced to the 6th rank. The reason is with both pawns on the
5th rank Black has to protect both 6th and 7th rank which is impossible
whereas with the h-pawn advanced the black king can block on g6 and only
needs to protect the 6th rank. So Black can afford to part with the pawn
as soon as White has advanced the h-pawn and Black is able to control
the 6th rank.

Claus-Juergen