Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew

Date: 25 Nov 2004 11:50:38
From: Jestrada
Subject: Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew

FYI: This material is now on the web!
http://www.geocities.com/verdrahciretop/src4.html
http://www.geocities.com/verdrahciretop/src5.html

From: "Gregory Topov" <[email protected] >
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.misc
Subject: Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew
Date: Mon, 15 2004 23:26:25 -0500

Obituary to a Famous Player You Probably Never Knew
Last time GM Topov interacted with what a contributor had to say about
GM Nemovic's lack of source material for his comments on the legendary
GM Antonio Pancris. He demonstrated that GM Nemovic also neglects to
provide substantive evidence for similar comments about the German
champion GM Otto Bolshnaut. He also introduced several other aspects
of GM Bolschnaut's aggressive style of play. In this article he
introduces another great SRC player, the Russian GM Victor Seignovich.

The SR Chess world recently mourned the passing of Mikhail Seignovich,
at aged 74, the only surviving son of legendary GM Victor Seignovich.
In tribute to Mikhail, here follows an obituary of his father, clearly
a shining star in the history of SR Chess players.

The relatively unknown Russian champion Victor E. Seignovich
(1909-1931) had a brilliant but very brief career. After a tremendous
rise out of obscurity to become the Russian Junior Champion in 1926,
and national champion just three years later, Seignovich did much to
promote public interest in SR Chess by performing blindfolded
simultaneous exhibitions. The most memorable of these was his 1929
blindfolded simultaneous exhibition in the Red Square during the
national championships, during which he was seated on a post thirty
feet in the air for six hours wearing nothing but a pair of soccer
shorts, while playing a dozen promising young Russian players (the
final score was 10 wins and 2 draws, one by an accidental stalemate).
This did much to enhance the profile of SR chess in the public eye,
although it did little for Seignovich's personal health, and may well
have been a contributing factor in him turning to alcohol later in his
life. An annotated record of these games has been preserved by Dr.
Carroll Lewiston in his monumental "Standard Primer on SR Chess
Gambits and Left Wing Sacrifices" (edited and published posthumously
by his wife Alice with the help of Hattie Madd). Lord
Foxton-Burnaby-Smith's 1956 publication "Mayhem of the Masters: A
Retrospective Look at a Retroactive Decade of Russian SR Chess
Dominance" also contains a selection of Seignovich's best games from
tournament play (although strangely it includes neither of his
rekable wins with the black pieces against the American Thornton
twins at the 1927 Brussels Invitational).

Seignovich was legendary in the Russian chess schools for his tendency
to create unusual openings. The most famous of these was the murky h4
at the 1928 SR Chess Olympics, a stunning move which required his
distinguished Austrian GM opponent to ponder for 45 minutes before
resigning after seeing that the forced asymmetrical random reply of
...g5 would inevitably lead to a mate in 13 with the help of a loaded
rook. The International SR Chess Federation made significant increases
to the random factor of SR Chess in years to follow, to prevent such
controversial openings. Despite these changes to the random factor, a
study of Seignovich's early games is still an absolute necessity for
any aspiring SR Chess grandmaster. Even today the lecturers at the
"Taco Belle School of SR Chess" in Barcelona make Seignovich's
openings mandatory for their students to learn.

The world will never know what Seignovich's true potential was,
because he had to be institutionalized after suffering several
embarrassing alcohol induced delusions. The worst of these was at the
1930 Hungarian Open, when he arrived dressed as a knight, and began
eating his opponents rooks, apparently under the delusion that they
were made of swiss cheese. Seignovich had earlier been incarcerated
for an unfortunate incident involving a cheese grater and his
neighbour's pet rabbit. He died just six months later at the tender
age of 21, after choking on a golf ball which he believed to be a
boiled egg.

Seignovich's impact on the game continues to be felt especially in the
SR Chess Olympics hosted in Prague every four years, where the
"Seignovich Most Beautiful Opening Trophy" is awarded to the player
who produces the most caffeine inspired plus-minus performance of
consecutive pawn moves. His widow continued to be active after his
death for many years by selling SR chess memorabilia, and at one stage
even modelled the famous propeller hat which has since been
trade-ked by Sir Stanley himself. Seignovich's death is still felt
by SR chess players around the world, and ever since his demise, few
have dared perform simultaneous exhibitions in pole position while
wearing soccer shorts for fear of the psychotic consequences that
might follow. Nonetheless he will always be fondly remembered for his
brash combinations of light and dark squared pawn traps, and his
willingness to serve as a public advocate of SR Chess. A rook
autographed by his wife continues to have a place of honour among my
personal collection of chess memorabilia.

SRC GM Gregory Topov

In response to last week's article about GM Seignovich, Eopithecus
writes:

Have any of his games been published?

Certainly! In addition to the previously mentioned two titles, you
should also consider getting hold of Sir Humphry Footscray's
unauthorized autobiography entitled "From Humphry to Humpty: Personal
Memoirs of My Rise and Fall as a British SR Chess Champion." In
chapter five (appropriately called "From Russia Without Love: The
Seignovich Mismatch"), Sir Humphry recounts his series of six friendly
exhibition games against GM Seignovich, while he was preparing for the
British SR Chess Championship title in 1929. The match was sponsored
by the Royal British Equine Society, and featured some splendid
presentations about pasture management, parasite control and horse
handling before each game. Sir Humphry was himself an avid horse
lover, although he documents that Seignovich (only 20 at the time)
showed more interest in the lovely ladies who were handling the horses
than the horses themselves. Seignovich's interest certainly returned
when the chess boards appeared, however, because he won the match
convincingly with five wins and a draw.

Sir Humphry's book has a complete record of all six games, along with
his personal annotations. My favorite is his comment after
Seignovich's obscure 4.a4!? in game three. This is now known as the
Seignovich Crossfire Opening, with both bishops then being developed
in synchronized meter on the third rank, in preparation for a Central
Pawn Scissors attack. At the time it was a new move, however, and Sir
Humphry reks: "A genius at work, Seignovich was already thinking
Central Pawn Scissors while I was still concentrating on warming up my
seat and regretting the fact that I hadn't worn long underwear. The
game lasted only another twelve moves, with the Scissors decapitating
my short shrift knight on d5 shortly thereafter. Seeing as I couldn't
create a twin pawn parrot formation to prevent a unmatched queen
autarchy, I resigned with whatever dignity I could muster, and trudged
home in disgrace, consoling myself by nursing my remaining pride with
a glass of warm milk, a long bath, and a meditative read of the latest
proceedings of British parliament." Incomprehensible to most players
aside from grandmasters perhaps, but certainly a fitting commentary on
Seignovich's brilliance.

SRC GM Gregory Topov

Date: 27 Nov 2004 01:34:08
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski
Subject: Re: Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew

Dear SRC GM Topov,

elsewhere in the thread you ask rgcm
participants about their personal encounters
with GM Victor Seignovich.

My hands are shaking while I am typing, and
it is not due to my age but because of the
emotion.

I am sure that you remember that GrandMaster
was late to one of his tournaments in the West,
that some special arrangements had to be made
to get the tournament go smoothly. This is
how it happened. This is the first time that
this old story will see the light.

I was a young railroad worker at the time,
at the border of Poland and White Russia
which was also the border of exRussian
Empire.

I was crazy about chess. I even managed to
buy myself a tournament chess set and...
a chess clock!!! It cost me a fortune.
I never used them because my friends
were weak chess players. Thus we used
some cheap sets, and some we made ourselves.
Nevertheless, when I was by myself, I practised
using the clock, it was fun.

One evening a train from Russia arrived and
inside I saw a youngster, about 20 years
old, studying a chess position. He was
even looking into a magazine which had
chess diagrams. It was the first time that I saw
something like this, a publication with
a chess diagram.

I winked to my friends, and I challenged
that youngster. He was in no hurry to play
me until I had explained to him that
his train is going to stay put for many
hours. 4-5 hours was standard, because
before a train leaves the Russian
territory its wheels have to be adjusted
to the narrower Western rails.

He agreed to play7 a couple of blitzes. I
lost but I made it interesting. Thus we played
several games, I hardly won any but a couple.
Five minutes per game was too fast for me.
I asked him to play 15 minute games. He said
"go ahead, take 15", but I had my pride,
especially that I was older, I was 25 at the
time (I had my 100th birtday recently).
The youngster was nice, he agreed, we set both
clocks to 15 minutes, and he was happy that he
did, because he was using about all that time.
He said so himself! Now I was winning about
10-15% of the games. You may wonder how was
it possible to squeeze so many games into
a 4-5 hour long slot? -- I told you that I was
crazy about chess, that I winked to my friends.
The train stayed put at the border for oh God
knows how long! That's how later GM Seignovich
missed the beginning of the tournament at his
destination.

But he didn't seem to be sorry about the delay. He was
amused. I was finally tired of that long chess night.
It was around noon time that finally the train was
ready to go further West. Before he left, GM Seignovich
wrote down the moves from two of our games, of which
one was his brilliant win and the other was a hard
fought game in which I was lucky to finally prevail.
He asked for my name, had printed both his and mine
on the scoresheet, and dated and signed both of them.
This is how I have learned his name. At the time
I thought that GM were his initials or perhaps an
aristocratic title.

I kept those score sheets secure for years
but they didn't survive World War II.
Thus all I am left with is the memory of
a rekable, kind youngster, who loved chess
and drink as much as I did.

I remember more details of my only encounter
with a strong chess player but I have already
had your attention for too long.

Best regards,

Wlod

Date: 27 Nov 2004 16:49:00
From: Green Bastard from Parts Unknown
Subject: Re: Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew

"Wlodzimierz Holsztynski" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dear SRC GM Topov,
>
> elsewhere in the thread you ask rgcm
> participants about their personal encounters
> with GM Victor Seignovich.
>
> My hands are shaking while I am typing, and
> it is not due to my age but because of the
> emotion.
>
> I am sure that you remember that GrandMaster
> was late to one of his tournaments in the West,
> that some special arrangements had to be made
> to get the tournament go smoothly. This is
> how it happened. This is the first time that
> this old story will see the light.
>
> I was a young railroad worker at the time,
> at the border of Poland and White Russia
> which was also the border of exRussian
> Empire.
>
> I was crazy about chess. I even managed to
> buy myself a tournament chess set and...
> a chess clock!!! It cost me a fortune.
> I never used them because my friends
> were weak chess players. Thus we used
> some cheap sets, and some we made ourselves.
> Nevertheless, when I was by myself, I practised
> using the clock, it was fun.
>
> One evening a train from Russia arrived and
> inside I saw a youngster, about 20 years
> old, studying a chess position. He was
> even looking into a magazine which had
> chess diagrams. It was the first time that I saw
> something like this, a publication with
> a chess diagram.
>
> I winked to my friends, and I challenged
> that youngster. He was in no hurry to play
> me until I had explained to him that
> his train is going to stay put for many
> hours. 4-5 hours was standard, because
> before a train leaves the Russian
> territory its wheels have to be adjusted
> to the narrower Western rails.
>
> He agreed to play7 a couple of blitzes. I
> lost but I made it interesting. Thus we played
> several games, I hardly won any but a couple.
> Five minutes per game was too fast for me.
> I asked him to play 15 minute games. He said
> "go ahead, take 15", but I had my pride,
> especially that I was older, I was 25 at the
> time (I had my 100th birtday recently).
> The youngster was nice, he agreed, we set both
> clocks to 15 minutes, and he was happy that he
> did, because he was using about all that time.
> He said so himself! Now I was winning about
> 10-15% of the games. You may wonder how was
> it possible to squeeze so many games into
> a 4-5 hour long slot? -- I told you that I was
> crazy about chess, that I winked to my friends.
> The train stayed put at the border for oh God
> knows how long! That's how later GM Seignovich
> missed the beginning of the tournament at his
> destination.
>
> But he didn't seem to be sorry about the delay. He was
> amused. I was finally tired of that long chess night.
> It was around noon time that finally the train was
> ready to go further West. Before he left, GM Seignovich
> wrote down the moves from two of our games, of which
> one was his brilliant win and the other was a hard
> fought game in which I was lucky to finally prevail.
> He asked for my name, had printed both his and mine
> on the scoresheet, and dated and signed both of them.
> This is how I have learned his name. At the time
> I thought that GM were his initials or perhaps an
> aristocratic title.
>
> I kept those score sheets secure for years
> but they didn't survive World War II.
> Thus all I am left with is the memory of
> a rekable, kind youngster, who loved chess
> and drink as much as I did.
>
> I remember more details of my only encounter
> with a strong chess player but I have already
> had your attention for too long.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Wlod

You're really 100 years old, Wlod? You completed your PhD in 1965, at the
age of 59 or 60? Or am I missing something?

GB

Date: 29 Nov 2004 03:01:17
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski
Subject: Re: Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew

"Green Bastard from Parts Unknown" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<0e2qd.362742$nl.337716@pd7tw3no>...

> [...] You completed your PhD in 1965, [...]
>
> GB

Indeed, on Oct 4, 1965.

Best regards,

Wlod

Date: 28 Nov 2004 18:45:48
From: Nick
Subject: Re: Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew

"Green Bastard from Parts Unknown" <[email protected] > wrote in
message news:<0e2qd.362742$nl.337716@pd7tw3no >...(to Wlodzimierz Holsztynski):
> Wlodzimierz Holsztynski wrote:
> > (snipped)
> > I was 25 at the time (I had my 100th birtday recently). ...
>
> You're really 100 years old, Wlod? You completed your PhD in 1965,
> at the age of 59 or 60? Or am I missing something?

"Lattices with Real Numbers as Additive Operators" by W. Holsztynski
was published in 1969 in Warsaw (Warszawa) under the aegis of the
Instytut Mathematyczny Polskiej Akademii Nauk.

Date: 27 Nov 2004 18:37:27
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski
Subject: Re: Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew

"Green Bastard from Parts Unknown" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<0e2qd.362742$nl.337716@pd7tw3no>...
>
> You're really 100 years old, Wlod? You completed
> your PhD in 1965, at the
> age of 59 or 60? Or am I missing something?
>
>
> GB

I am a late bloomer.

Regards,

Wlod

Date: 27 Nov 2004 07:53:49
From: Leopold
Subject: Re: Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew

Thank you for sharing your story with us. It was very beautiful.
Leopold Lacrimosa

"Wlodzimierz Holsztynski" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dear SRC GM Topov,
>
> elsewhere in the thread you ask rgcm
> participants about their personal encounters
> with GM Victor Seignovich.
>
> My hands are shaking while I am typing, and
> it is not due to my age but because of the
> emotion.
>
> I am sure that you remember that GrandMaster
> was late to one of his tournaments in the West,
> that some special arrangements had to be made
> to get the tournament go smoothly. This is
> how it happened. This is the first time that
> this old story will see the light.
>
> I was a young railroad worker at the time,
> at the border of Poland and White Russia
> which was also the border of exRussian
> Empire.
>
> I was crazy about chess. I even managed to
> buy myself a tournament chess set and...
> a chess clock!!! It cost me a fortune.
> I never used them because my friends
> were weak chess players. Thus we used
> some cheap sets, and some we made ourselves.
> Nevertheless, when I was by myself, I practised
> using the clock, it was fun.
>
> One evening a train from Russia arrived and
> inside I saw a youngster, about 20 years
> old, studying a chess position. He was
> even looking into a magazine which had
> chess diagrams. It was the first time that I saw
> something like this, a publication with
> a chess diagram.
>
> I winked to my friends, and I challenged
> that youngster. He was in no hurry to play
> me until I had explained to him that
> his train is going to stay put for many
> hours. 4-5 hours was standard, because
> before a train leaves the Russian
> territory its wheels have to be adjusted
> to the narrower Western rails.
>
> He agreed to play7 a couple of blitzes. I
> lost but I made it interesting. Thus we played
> several games, I hardly won any but a couple.
> Five minutes per game was too fast for me.
> I asked him to play 15 minute games. He said
> "go ahead, take 15", but I had my pride,
> especially that I was older, I was 25 at the
> time (I had my 100th birtday recently).
> The youngster was nice, he agreed, we set both
> clocks to 15 minutes, and he was happy that he
> did, because he was using about all that time.
> He said so himself! Now I was winning about
> 10-15% of the games. You may wonder how was
> it possible to squeeze so many games into
> a 4-5 hour long slot? -- I told you that I was
> crazy about chess, that I winked to my friends.
> The train stayed put at the border for oh God
> knows how long! That's how later GM Seignovich
> missed the beginning of the tournament at his
> destination.
>
> But he didn't seem to be sorry about the delay. He was
> amused. I was finally tired of that long chess night.
> It was around noon time that finally the train was
> ready to go further West. Before he left, GM Seignovich
> wrote down the moves from two of our games, of which
> one was his brilliant win and the other was a hard
> fought game in which I was lucky to finally prevail.
> He asked for my name, had printed both his and mine
> on the scoresheet, and dated and signed both of them.
> This is how I have learned his name. At the time
> I thought that GM were his initials or perhaps an
> aristocratic title.
>
> I kept those score sheets secure for years
> but they didn't survive World War II.
> Thus all I am left with is the memory of
> a rekable, kind youngster, who loved chess
> and drink as much as I did.
>
> I remember more details of my only encounter
> with a strong chess player but I have already
> had your attention for too long.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Wlod

Date: 27 Nov 2004 09:19:12
From: Gregory Topov
Subject: Re: Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew

Your account certainly breathes an air of humility and authenticity, and I
am very excited to receive correspondence from someone who has actually met
Victor Seignovich in person! Nonetheless, perhaps you can confirm a few
details to verify the truth of your story.

From your account, it appears that your meeting with Seignovich was less
than a year before his death. I suspect that it was possibly when he was on
his way to the 1930 Hungarian Open? This was one of his last public
appearances prior to him being institutionalized, and he did indeed arrive
at the tournament late. As I wrote earlier, this was when his alcohol
induced delusions became public, and "he arrived dressed as a knight, and
began eating his opponents rooks, apparently under the delusion that they
were made of swiss cheese." Your story would certainly corroborate the sad
state of affairs that emerged, and would go a long way to explaining how
Seignovich had the opportuntiy to consume so much alcohol prior to the
tournament in the first place, particularly if the train was extensively
delayed. Do you remember him consuming copious amounts of alcohol? Did he
appear deluded at any point?

Further, it is widely known that Victor Seignovich had a distinct aversion
to traditional chess. I trust that throughout your account you were
referring to Stanley Random Chess (SRC), and not traditional chess? At what
point of your meeting with Seignovich did you become aware that he was
playing Stanley Random Chess? Perhaps he had some accompanying literature
with him that tipped you off? Seignovich was known to have read the
"Advanced Stanley Random Chess" by Volkington-Bovart from cover to cover at
age 6, and it was unusual for him to appear anywhere without his favorite
books!

Again, I am thoroughly excited to hear from someone who can shed light on
the bizarre events that emerged at the 1930 Hungarian Open, and look forward
to hearing more from you and others!

SRC GM Topov

--
Gregory Topov
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." - shall McLuhan

"Wlodzimierz Holsztynski" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dear SRC GM Topov,
>
> elsewhere in the thread you ask rgcm
> participants about their personal encounters
> with GM Victor Seignovich.
>
> My hands are shaking while I am typing, and
> it is not due to my age but because of the
> emotion.
>
> I am sure that you remember that GrandMaster
> was late to one of his tournaments in the West,
> that some special arrangements had to be made
> to get the tournament go smoothly. This is
> how it happened. This is the first time that
> this old story will see the light.
>
> I was a young railroad worker at the time,
> at the border of Poland and White Russia
> which was also the border of exRussian
> Empire.
>
> I was crazy about chess. I even managed to
> buy myself a tournament chess set and...
> a chess clock!!! It cost me a fortune.
> I never used them because my friends
> were weak chess players. Thus we used
> some cheap sets, and some we made ourselves.
> Nevertheless, when I was by myself, I practised
> using the clock, it was fun.
>
> One evening a train from Russia arrived and
> inside I saw a youngster, about 20 years
> old, studying a chess position. He was
> even looking into a magazine which had
> chess diagrams. It was the first time that I saw
> something like this, a publication with
> a chess diagram.
>
> I winked to my friends, and I challenged
> that youngster. He was in no hurry to play
> me until I had explained to him that
> his train is going to stay put for many
> hours. 4-5 hours was standard, because
> before a train leaves the Russian
> territory its wheels have to be adjusted
> to the narrower Western rails.
>
> He agreed to play7 a couple of blitzes. I
> lost but I made it interesting. Thus we played
> several games, I hardly won any but a couple.
> Five minutes per game was too fast for me.
> I asked him to play 15 minute games. He said
> "go ahead, take 15", but I had my pride,
> especially that I was older, I was 25 at the
> time (I had my 100th birtday recently).
> The youngster was nice, he agreed, we set both
> clocks to 15 minutes, and he was happy that he
> did, because he was using about all that time.
> He said so himself! Now I was winning about
> 10-15% of the games. You may wonder how was
> it possible to squeeze so many games into
> a 4-5 hour long slot? -- I told you that I was
> crazy about chess, that I winked to my friends.
> The train stayed put at the border for oh God
> knows how long! That's how later GM Seignovich
> missed the beginning of the tournament at his
> destination.
>
> But he didn't seem to be sorry about the delay. He was
> amused. I was finally tired of that long chess night.
> It was around noon time that finally the train was
> ready to go further West. Before he left, GM Seignovich
> wrote down the moves from two of our games, of which
> one was his brilliant win and the other was a hard
> fought game in which I was lucky to finally prevail.
> He asked for my name, had printed both his and mine
> on the scoresheet, and dated and signed both of them.
> This is how I have learned his name. At the time
> I thought that GM were his initials or perhaps an
> aristocratic title.
>
> I kept those score sheets secure for years
> but they didn't survive World War II.
> Thus all I am left with is the memory of
> a rekable, kind youngster, who loved chess
> and drink as much as I did.
>
> I remember more details of my only encounter
> with a strong chess player but I have already
> had your attention for too long.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Wlod

Date: 27 Nov 2004 21:08:46
From: Wlodzimierz Holsztynski
Subject: Re: Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew

"Gregory Topov" <[email protected] > wrote
in message news:<[email protected] >...

> Your account certainly breathes an air of humility
> and authenticity, and I am very excited to receive
> correspondence from someone who has actually met
> Victor Seignovich in person! Nonetheless, perhaps
> you can confirm a few details to verify the truth
> of your story.

Dear GrandMaster,

I'll gladly answer all your questions. I am honored
by your interest in my episode of which I am so fond.
It was only one of two cases, over all those years,
that I played a passanger (passangers were looking down
their nose on us, simple railroad workers). In the other
case my partner (or, as we say in the West--opponent)
was a complete amateur, a servant from India, he didn't
quite knew the rules. As white he would move not
one but two pawns, say to squares b3 and g3. We played
several short series of games, each consisting of about
four games. After each session he had to go to his master,
do some chores around him, like making tea, then he had
to ask for permission to play again. He won all games (and
I must add that he made it look easy) but for the last game,
after which he didn't play anymore. Oh, no, it was not because
he lost to me but because after the game he had belched when
he addressed his master. You see, it was only before the
last game that my Indian partner agreed to have some vodka.
I was surprised that after that one tea glass he didn't
look stronger, he seemed a little bit disoriented. Anyway,
his master would not let him to continue our games.
I was somewhat sorry, no big deal, the Indian guy was
not any GrandMaster like GM Seignovich, he was just
a sharp, talented amateur.

Of course I am glad to clarify any points. When one gets
somewhat older one likes to reminisce nonstop. The fact
that we are talking about events from three quarters of
a century ago is not much of an obstacle as long as my
memory serves me well, and it does. The difficulty is
elsewhere. Today we look differntly at things, we have
different perception, different priorities. And this
can fool me too! I've written that the standard stop
for the trains was about 4-5 hours, and that in the
particular case the train was waiting for the realingment
about 18h. Actually you should double these figures.
The standard delay was at least ten hours long. And that
chess session with GM Victor Seignovich had lasted some
36h, a day and a half. Today everything happens fast.
It is hard even for me to believe that so many people
would spent so much time at our stop train doing nothing.

It was all blurr to me even then, at the time, except for
the chess. We were taking breaks to eat, and when the nature
called. Once or twice GrandMaster played a game on the side
with one of my friends, while seriously concentrating on me.
He didn't like the distraction and asked nicely to let him
play just me. I didn't say a word but inside I was very proud
of monopolizing his chess attention.

> From your account, it appears that your meeting
> with Seignovich was less than a year before his death.
> I suspect that it was possibly when he was on
> his way to the 1930 Hungarian Open? This was one of
> his last public appearances prior to him being
> institutionalized, and he did indeed arrive
> at the tournament late. As I wrote earlier, this
> was when his alcohol induced delusions became
> public, and "he arrived dressed as a knight, and
> began eating his opponents rooks, apparently under
> the delusion that they were made of swiss cheese."
> Your story would certainly corroborate the sad
> state of affairs that emerged, and would go a long
> way to explaining how Seignovich had the opportunity
> to consume so much alcohol prior to the
> tournament in the first place, particularly if the
> train was extensively delayed. Do you remember
> him consuming copious amounts of alcohol? Did he
> appear deluded at any point?

Suddenly I feel a bit sad, possibly even guilty.
I mean the vodka angle, so to speak.

Sure. Of course, we ate during the breaks, but
we were drinking non-stop. You need to understand
the circumstances. Grandmaster seemed perfectly
normal to me. The way he dressed didn't surprise me
because I was taking everything in stride. I've seen
people dressing in every each way. This was a train stop
where you could see a lot of different people from different
places, and from different social strata. I assumed that he
was an aristocrat and that's why he dressed somewhat differently.
His hands were very smooth, very gentle, he never did any
physical work in his life, I am sure of this.

From what you write it seems that he was on his way
to Budapest. Thus it would be a roundabout way.
There was also a more direct, Southern route but
this part of the world was always in some turmoil
or another, if not outright boiling then at least
simmering, there was always a trouble, especially
South of us. Thus we were getting a lot of trains
and passangers who meant to go South. It was actually
quite normal, it was common.

Yes, while we were taking breaks for eating, etc,
we played and drank virtually nonstop. That's how
we used to live. There were thirty to sixty male
railroad workers living in four barracks, who had
nothing to do but to drink and to play chess. Vodka
was cheap because it was samogon (moonshine). The
nearest small town was about hundred miles away
(which was a significant distance in those days),
the nearest villages were ten-fifteen miles away.
During the winter we would attend village dances.
We always went well prepared, and the farm boys
were prepared too, so that after dances always
someone got hurt (I mean dead or wishing to be dead)
-- it was great. That was the only entertainment
that we had.

GM Seignovich was not rough like us physically, but
drinking wise I didn't see any problem, he fit with
the rest of us perfectly. I never gave it another
tought until now. He was very normal, we enjoyed
each other company, he was not delusional, not at all.
All of us had that v.a.g. (vodka absorbing gene),
including the GrandMaster. I would never guess that
GrandMaster Seignovich would have any problem
with alcohol (except for not having enough of it).
He was not like that Indian servant, for whom I was
sorry--he didn't take to vodka instantly, he needed
time to adjust. That's why I am sure that this
amateur Indian never became a professional chessplayer.
If it were not for his master I would fix it, and we
would all hear about his achievements.

> Further, it is widely known that Victor Seignovich
> had a distinct aversion to traditional chess. I trust
> that throughout your account you were referring to
> Stanley Random Chess (SRC), and not traditional chess?
> At what point of your meeting with Seignovich did you
> become aware that he was playing Stanley Random Chess?
> Perhaps he had some accompanying literature with him
> that tipped you off? Seignovich was known to have read
> the "Advanced Stanley Random Chess" by Volkington-Bovart
> from cover to cover at age 6, and it was unusual for him
> to appear anywhere without his favorite books!

Yes, there were some books in his compartment.
I couldn't care less at the time about "literature".
Remember that we had people from all over the world.
We played with all kind of rules. I was used to
be told about rules suddenly in the middle of the
game. Some guys would get into a fight on such occasions.
I was a quiet big bear and hardly ever had to get mad.
I was willing to play by most any rules (I have mentioned
the weird openings by the Indian guy). I am sorry that
after three quarters of a century and many buckets of vodka
I can't tell you that I remember perfectly the rules we
played by. I remember that I accepted his rules without
any quarrel. He explained them very clearly.

I enjoyed the challenge of various rules except when
some fellow workers tried to cheat. They would
suddenly say: you didn't see that you could take
my rook with your queen, so now I take your queen
off the board. I learned to tell them in advance:
I see that I can take that rook, which you hang on
purpose, you, sneaky bastard, but instead of snatching
it I am going to checkmate you in four. It was a nuisance
but then you don't get a grandmaster or even an Indian
amateur at such a remote hole every day.

> Again, I am thoroughly excited to hear from someone
> who can shed light on the bizarre events that emerged
> at the 1930 Hungarian Open, and look forward
> to hearing more from you and others!
>
> SRC GM Topov

Thank you GrandMaster. I enjoy reading about the time
of my youth, when chess and vodka were so important.
I guess, GM Victor was stronger than me in the first one,
while I was in the latter.

Best regards,

Wlod

Date: 28 Nov 2004 19:28:53
From: Jennifer Hootie
Subject: Re: Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew

Dear Mr. Wlodzimierz Holsztynski,
Your moving account about your chance encounter with Seignovich left me in
tears. I am greatly indebted to you for sharing this wonderful and
heartwarming story. I plan to include a chapter about Seignovich in my
forthcoming unauthorized autobiography. I would be most grateful if you
would allow me the liberty of quoting you as a source? Certainly you have
done much to enlighten the Stanley Random Chess playing community's
understanding of Seignovich's last movements prior to his final tournament
in 1930.
In appreciation,

SR Chess GM Gregory Topov
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." - shall McLuhan

"Wlodzimierz Holsztynski" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Gregory Topov" <[email protected]> wrote
> in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > Your account certainly breathes an air of humility
> > and authenticity, and I am very excited to receive
> > correspondence from someone who has actually met
> > Victor Seignovich in person! Nonetheless, perhaps
> > you can confirm a few details to verify the truth
> > of your story.
>
> Dear GrandMaster,
>
> I'll gladly answer all your questions. I am honored
> by your interest in my episode of which I am so fond.
> It was only one of two cases, over all those years,
> that I played a passanger (passangers were looking down
> their nose on us, simple railroad workers). In the other
> case my partner (or, as we say in the West--opponent)
> was a complete amateur, a servant from India, he didn't
> quite knew the rules. As white he would move not
> one but two pawns, say to squares b3 and g3. We played
> several short series of games, each consisting of about
> four games. After each session he had to go to his master,
> do some chores around him, like making tea, then he had
> to ask for permission to play again. He won all games (and
> I must add that he made it look easy) but for the last game,
> after which he didn't play anymore. Oh, no, it was not because
> he lost to me but because after the game he had belched when
> he addressed his master. You see, it was only before the
> last game that my Indian partner agreed to have some vodka.
> I was surprised that after that one tea glass he didn't
> look stronger, he seemed a little bit disoriented. Anyway,
> his master would not let him to continue our games.
> I was somewhat sorry, no big deal, the Indian guy was
> not any GrandMaster like GM Seignovich, he was just
> a sharp, talented amateur.
>
> Of course I am glad to clarify any points. When one gets
> somewhat older one likes to reminisce nonstop. The fact
> that we are talking about events from three quarters of
> a century ago is not much of an obstacle as long as my
> memory serves me well, and it does. The difficulty is
> elsewhere. Today we look differntly at things, we have
> different perception, different priorities. And this
> can fool me too! I've written that the standard stop
> for the trains was about 4-5 hours, and that in the
> particular case the train was waiting for the realingment
> about 18h. Actually you should double these figures.
> The standard delay was at least ten hours long. And that
> chess session with GM Victor Seignovich had lasted some
> 36h, a day and a half. Today everything happens fast.
> It is hard even for me to believe that so many people
> would spent so much time at our stop train doing nothing.
>
> It was all blurr to me even then, at the time, except for
> the chess. We were taking breaks to eat, and when the nature
> called. Once or twice GrandMaster played a game on the side
> with one of my friends, while seriously concentrating on me.
> He didn't like the distraction and asked nicely to let him
> play just me. I didn't say a word but inside I was very proud
> of monopolizing his chess attention.
>
> > From your account, it appears that your meeting
> > with Seignovich was less than a year before his death.
> > I suspect that it was possibly when he was on
> > his way to the 1930 Hungarian Open? This was one of
> > his last public appearances prior to him being
> > institutionalized, and he did indeed arrive
> > at the tournament late. As I wrote earlier, this
> > was when his alcohol induced delusions became
> > public, and "he arrived dressed as a knight, and
> > began eating his opponents rooks, apparently under
> > the delusion that they were made of swiss cheese."
> > Your story would certainly corroborate the sad
> > state of affairs that emerged, and would go a long
> > way to explaining how Seignovich had the opportunity
> > to consume so much alcohol prior to the
> > tournament in the first place, particularly if the
> > train was extensively delayed. Do you remember
> > him consuming copious amounts of alcohol? Did he
> > appear deluded at any point?
>
> Suddenly I feel a bit sad, possibly even guilty.
> I mean the vodka angle, so to speak.
>
> Sure. Of course, we ate during the breaks, but
> we were drinking non-stop. You need to understand
> the circumstances. Grandmaster seemed perfectly
> normal to me. The way he dressed didn't surprise me
> because I was taking everything in stride. I've seen
> people dressing in every each way. This was a train stop
> where you could see a lot of different people from different
> places, and from different social strata. I assumed that he
> was an aristocrat and that's why he dressed somewhat differently.
> His hands were very smooth, very gentle, he never did any
> physical work in his life, I am sure of this.
>
> From what you write it seems that he was on his way
> to Budapest. Thus it would be a roundabout way.
> There was also a more direct, Southern route but
> this part of the world was always in some turmoil
> or another, if not outright boiling then at least
> simmering, there was always a trouble, especially
> South of us. Thus we were getting a lot of trains
> and passangers who meant to go South. It was actually
> quite normal, it was common.
>
> Yes, while we were taking breaks for eating, etc,
> we played and drank virtually nonstop. That's how
> we used to live. There were thirty to sixty male
> railroad workers living in four barracks, who had
> nothing to do but to drink and to play chess. Vodka
> was cheap because it was samogon (moonshine). The
> nearest small town was about hundred miles away
> (which was a significant distance in those days),
> the nearest villages were ten-fifteen miles away.
> During the winter we would attend village dances.
> We always went well prepared, and the farm boys
> were prepared too, so that after dances always
> someone got hurt (I mean dead or wishing to be dead)
> -- it was great. That was the only entertainment
> that we had.
>
> GM Seignovich was not rough like us physically, but
> drinking wise I didn't see any problem, he fit with
> the rest of us perfectly. I never gave it another
> tought until now. He was very normal, we enjoyed
> each other company, he was not delusional, not at all.
> All of us had that v.a.g. (vodka absorbing gene),
> including the GrandMaster. I would never guess that
> GrandMaster Seignovich would have any problem
> with alcohol (except for not having enough of it).
> He was not like that Indian servant, for whom I was
> sorry--he didn't take to vodka instantly, he needed
> time to adjust. That's why I am sure that this
> amateur Indian never became a professional chessplayer.
> If it were not for his master I would fix it, and we
> would all hear about his achievements.
>
> > Further, it is widely known that Victor Seignovich
> > had a distinct aversion to traditional chess. I trust
> > that throughout your account you were referring to
> > Stanley Random Chess (SRC), and not traditional chess?
> > At what point of your meeting with Seignovich did you
> > become aware that he was playing Stanley Random Chess?
> > Perhaps he had some accompanying literature with him
> > that tipped you off? Seignovich was known to have read
> > the "Advanced Stanley Random Chess" by Volkington-Bovart
> > from cover to cover at age 6, and it was unusual for him
> > to appear anywhere without his favorite books!
>
> Yes, there were some books in his compartment.
> I couldn't care less at the time about "literature".
> Remember that we had people from all over the world.
> We played with all kind of rules. I was used to
> be told about rules suddenly in the middle of the
> game. Some guys would get into a fight on such occasions.
> I was a quiet big bear and hardly ever had to get mad.
> I was willing to play by most any rules (I have mentioned
> the weird openings by the Indian guy). I am sorry that
> after three quarters of a century and many buckets of vodka
> I can't tell you that I remember perfectly the rules we
> played by. I remember that I accepted his rules without
> any quarrel. He explained them very clearly.
>
> I enjoyed the challenge of various rules except when
> some fellow workers tried to cheat. They would
> suddenly say: you didn't see that you could take
> my rook with your queen, so now I take your queen
> off the board. I learned to tell them in advance:
> I see that I can take that rook, which you hang on
> purpose, you, sneaky bastard, but instead of snatching
> it I am going to checkmate you in four. It was a nuisance
> but then you don't get a grandmaster or even an Indian
> amateur at such a remote hole every day.
>
> > Again, I am thoroughly excited to hear from someone
> > who can shed light on the bizarre events that emerged
> > at the 1930 Hungarian Open, and look forward
> > to hearing more from you and others!
> >
> > SRC GM Topov
>
> Thank you GrandMaster. I enjoy reading about the time
> of my youth, when chess and vodka were so important.
> I guess, GM Victor was stronger than me in the first one,
> while I was in the latter.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Wlod

Date: 28 Nov 2004 19:32:27
From: Jennifer Hootie
Subject: Re: Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew

Sorry for submitting my previous message without typing anything. Trying
again:

As an avid SR Chess fan, thank you to both Mr. Topov and Mr. Holsztynski.

-Jennifer

Gregory Topov wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dear Mr. Wlodzimierz Holsztynski,
> Your moving account about your chance encounter with Seignovich left me in
> tears. I am greatly indebted to you for sharing this wonderful and
> heartwarming story. I plan to include a chapter about Seignovich in my
> forthcoming unauthorized autobiography. I would be most grateful if you
> would allow me the liberty of quoting you as a source? Certainly you have
> done much to enlighten the Stanley Random Chess playing community's
> understanding of Seignovich's last movements prior to his final tournament
> in 1930.
> In appreciation,
>
> SR Chess GM Gregory Topov
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." - shall McLuhan
>
> "Wlodzimierz Holsztynski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Gregory Topov" <[email protected]> wrote
> > in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > > Your account certainly breathes an air of humility
> > > and authenticity, and I am very excited to receive
> > > correspondence from someone who has actually met
> > > Victor Seignovich in person! Nonetheless, perhaps
> > > you can confirm a few details to verify the truth
> > > of your story.
> >
> > Dear GrandMaster,
> >
> > I'll gladly answer all your questions. I am honored
> > by your interest in my episode of which I am so fond.
> > It was only one of two cases, over all those years,
> > that I played a passanger (passangers were looking down
> > their nose on us, simple railroad workers). In the other
> > case my partner (or, as we say in the West--opponent)
> > was a complete amateur, a servant from India, he didn't
> > quite knew the rules. As white he would move not
> > one but two pawns, say to squares b3 and g3. We played
> > several short series of games, each consisting of about
> > four games. After each session he had to go to his master,
> > do some chores around him, like making tea, then he had
> > to ask for permission to play again. He won all games (and
> > I must add that he made it look easy) but for the last game,
> > after which he didn't play anymore. Oh, no, it was not because
> > he lost to me but because after the game he had belched when
> > he addressed his master. You see, it was only before the
> > last game that my Indian partner agreed to have some vodka.
> > I was surprised that after that one tea glass he didn't
> > look stronger, he seemed a little bit disoriented. Anyway,
> > his master would not let him to continue our games.
> > I was somewhat sorry, no big deal, the Indian guy was
> > not any GrandMaster like GM Seignovich, he was just
> > a sharp, talented amateur.
> >
> > Of course I am glad to clarify any points. When one gets
> > somewhat older one likes to reminisce nonstop. The fact
> > that we are talking about events from three quarters of
> > a century ago is not much of an obstacle as long as my
> > memory serves me well, and it does. The difficulty is
> > elsewhere. Today we look differntly at things, we have
> > different perception, different priorities. And this
> > can fool me too! I've written that the standard stop
> > for the trains was about 4-5 hours, and that in the
> > particular case the train was waiting for the realingment
> > about 18h. Actually you should double these figures.
> > The standard delay was at least ten hours long. And that
> > chess session with GM Victor Seignovich had lasted some
> > 36h, a day and a half. Today everything happens fast.
> > It is hard even for me to believe that so many people
> > would spent so much time at our stop train doing nothing.
> >
> > It was all blurr to me even then, at the time, except for
> > the chess. We were taking breaks to eat, and when the nature
> > called. Once or twice GrandMaster played a game on the side
> > with one of my friends, while seriously concentrating on me.
> > He didn't like the distraction and asked nicely to let him
> > play just me. I didn't say a word but inside I was very proud
> > of monopolizing his chess attention.
> >
> > > From your account, it appears that your meeting
> > > with Seignovich was less than a year before his death.
> > > I suspect that it was possibly when he was on
> > > his way to the 1930 Hungarian Open? This was one of
> > > his last public appearances prior to him being
> > > institutionalized, and he did indeed arrive
> > > at the tournament late. As I wrote earlier, this
> > > was when his alcohol induced delusions became
> > > public, and "he arrived dressed as a knight, and
> > > began eating his opponents rooks, apparently under
> > > the delusion that they were made of swiss cheese."
> > > Your story would certainly corroborate the sad
> > > state of affairs that emerged, and would go a long
> > > way to explaining how Seignovich had the opportunity
> > > to consume so much alcohol prior to the
> > > tournament in the first place, particularly if the
> > > train was extensively delayed. Do you remember
> > > him consuming copious amounts of alcohol? Did he
> > > appear deluded at any point?
> >
> > Suddenly I feel a bit sad, possibly even guilty.
> > I mean the vodka angle, so to speak.
> >
> > Sure. Of course, we ate during the breaks, but
> > we were drinking non-stop. You need to understand
> > the circumstances. Grandmaster seemed perfectly
> > normal to me. The way he dressed didn't surprise me
> > because I was taking everything in stride. I've seen
> > people dressing in every each way. This was a train stop
> > where you could see a lot of different people from different
> > places, and from different social strata. I assumed that he
> > was an aristocrat and that's why he dressed somewhat differently.
> > His hands were very smooth, very gentle, he never did any
> > physical work in his life, I am sure of this.
> >
> > From what you write it seems that he was on his way
> > to Budapest. Thus it would be a roundabout way.
> > There was also a more direct, Southern route but
> > this part of the world was always in some turmoil
> > or another, if not outright boiling then at least
> > simmering, there was always a trouble, especially
> > South of us. Thus we were getting a lot of trains
> > and passangers who meant to go South. It was actually
> > quite normal, it was common.
> >
> > Yes, while we were taking breaks for eating, etc,
> > we played and drank virtually nonstop. That's how
> > we used to live. There were thirty to sixty male
> > railroad workers living in four barracks, who had
> > nothing to do but to drink and to play chess. Vodka
> > was cheap because it was samogon (moonshine). The
> > nearest small town was about hundred miles away
> > (which was a significant distance in those days),
> > the nearest villages were ten-fifteen miles away.
> > During the winter we would attend village dances.
> > We always went well prepared, and the farm boys
> > were prepared too, so that after dances always
> > someone got hurt (I mean dead or wishing to be dead)
> > -- it was great. That was the only entertainment
> > that we had.
> >
> > GM Seignovich was not rough like us physically, but
> > drinking wise I didn't see any problem, he fit with
> > the rest of us perfectly. I never gave it another
> > tought until now. He was very normal, we enjoyed
> > each other company, he was not delusional, not at all.
> > All of us had that v.a.g. (vodka absorbing gene),
> > including the GrandMaster. I would never guess that
> > GrandMaster Seignovich would have any problem
> > with alcohol (except for not having enough of it).
> > He was not like that Indian servant, for whom I was
> > sorry--he didn't take to vodka instantly, he needed
> > time to adjust. That's why I am sure that this
> > amateur Indian never became a professional chessplayer.
> > If it were not for his master I would fix it, and we
> > would all hear about his achievements.
> >
> > > Further, it is widely known that Victor Seignovich
> > > had a distinct aversion to traditional chess. I trust
> > > that throughout your account you were referring to
> > > Stanley Random Chess (SRC), and not traditional chess?
> > > At what point of your meeting with Seignovich did you
> > > become aware that he was playing Stanley Random Chess?
> > > Perhaps he had some accompanying literature with him
> > > that tipped you off? Seignovich was known to have read
> > > the "Advanced Stanley Random Chess" by Volkington-Bovart
> > > from cover to cover at age 6, and it was unusual for him
> > > to appear anywhere without his favorite books!
> >
> > Yes, there were some books in his compartment.
> > I couldn't care less at the time about "literature".
> > Remember that we had people from all over the world.
> > We played with all kind of rules. I was used to
> > be told about rules suddenly in the middle of the
> > game. Some guys would get into a fight on such occasions.
> > I was a quiet big bear and hardly ever had to get mad.
> > I was willing to play by most any rules (I have mentioned
> > the weird openings by the Indian guy). I am sorry that
> > after three quarters of a century and many buckets of vodka
> > I can't tell you that I remember perfectly the rules we
> > played by. I remember that I accepted his rules without
> > any quarrel. He explained them very clearly.
> >
> > I enjoyed the challenge of various rules except when
> > some fellow workers tried to cheat. They would
> > suddenly say: you didn't see that you could take
> > my rook with your queen, so now I take your queen
> > off the board. I learned to tell them in advance:
> > I see that I can take that rook, which you hang on
> > purpose, you, sneaky bastard, but instead of snatching
> > it I am going to checkmate you in four. It was a nuisance
> > but then you don't get a grandmaster or even an Indian
> > amateur at such a remote hole every day.
> >
> > > Again, I am thoroughly excited to hear from someone
> > > who can shed light on the bizarre events that emerged
> > > at the 1930 Hungarian Open, and look forward
> > > to hearing more from you and others!
> > >
> > > SRC GM Topov
> >
> > Thank you GrandMaster. I enjoy reading about the time
> > of my youth, when chess and vodka were so important.
> > I guess, GM Victor was stronger than me in the first one,
> > while I was in the latter.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Wlod
>
>

Date: 29 Nov 2004 17:13:53
From: michael adams
Subject: Re: Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew

Jennifer Hootie wrote:
>
> Sorry for submitting my previous message without typing anything. Trying
> again:
>
> As an avid SR Chess fan, thank you to both Mr. Topov and Mr. Holsztynski.
>
> -Jennifer

OMG, a true birth-giving experience - thankyou, thankyou so much, & yes
I have my 'y mother of god' wall-patch. Thankyou once again, omg!..

>
> Gregory Topov wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Dear Mr. Wlodzimierz Holsztynski,
> > Your moving account about your chance encounter with Seignovich left me in
> > tears. I am greatly indebted to you for sharing this wonderful and
> > heartwarming story. I plan to include a chapter about Seignovich in my
> > forthcoming unauthorized ..

<snipped >

.

zzzzz..

Date: 28 Nov 2004 19:29:59
From: Gregory Topov
Subject: Re: Obituary to a brilliant player you probably never knew