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Date: 25 Jan 2005 22:34:41
From: Mark Uniacke
Subject: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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For the first time in history a Palm chess program (Palm Chess HIARCS)
defeated a Grandmaster in a 4 game Internet match. The score of 3-1 (2
wins and 2 draws) against a world top 100 chess player was an
outstanding achievement giving a performance rating of 2809 Elo.
Now you really can have a GM strength chess program in the Palm of your
hand!
Find out more and play through the games here:
http://www.hiarcs.com/phresults.htm#phvgm
Best wishes,
k
http://www.hiarcs.com
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Date: 31 Jan 2005 12:14:23
From: Mark Uniacke
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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In article <[email protected] >,
DevilsPGD <[email protected] > writes
>In message <[email protected]> "Tony
>Clark" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>As was stated previously, I have an email address that I'd prefer not to
>>hand out to Internet companies that like to sell that information to
>>spammers.
>
>But you'd not only give these companies your money, but also your credit
>card or bank account information?
>
>
I know you are talking generally but I would like to point out:
Purchases of HIARCS are made through the Share-it! service which is
governed by a strict privacy policy and is a licensee of the TRUSTe
Privacy Program.
www.hiarcs.com do not collect, hold or process your financial data.
Email addresses are never given to any third-party whatsoever.
The HIARCS privacy policy is very clear about this.
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Date: 26 Jan 2005 09:12:12
From: Mark Uniacke
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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In article <[email protected] >, Greg Cisko
<[email protected] > writes
>I tried to purchase this program. It will not accept a hotmail account. What
>is up
>with that? They just lost a purchase. Perhaps their program is not so st
>either. *DUH*
>
Free email accounts are not accepted for purchase by ShareIt for
security reasons due to a very bad history with purchases through such
accounts.
Best wishes,
k
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Date: 27 Jan 2005 02:45:19
From: Tony Clark
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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"k Uniacke" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
SNIP
>
> Free email accounts are not accepted for purchase by ShareIt for
> security reasons due to a very bad history with purchases through such
> accounts.
>
> Best wishes,
> k
What does a person's email account have to do with a purchase? If I give you
a legit credit card what do you care about my email address. Many of us use
hotmail and other free email accounts as a way to filter spam and and avoid
being harassed when companies sell email address and customer information to
others. Plus many people actually pay to use email accounts like hotmail
becasue they purchase additional storage capacity from the provider so in
effect it's not necessarily a free email account. Rejecting a purchase based
on a person's email domain seems like a rather draconian business practice
to me.
TC
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Date: 30 Jan 2005 21:35:03
From: Bill Marcum
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.palmtops.pilot.]
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:45:19 GMT, Tony Clark
<[email protected] > wrote:
>
>
> What does a person's email account have to do with a purchase? If I give you
> a legit credit card what do you care about my email address. Many of us use
> hotmail and other free email accounts as a way to filter spam and and avoid
> being harassed when companies sell email address and customer information to
> others. Plus many people actually pay to use email accounts like hotmail
> becasue they purchase additional storage capacity from the provider so in
> effect it's not necessarily a free email account. Rejecting a purchase based
> on a person's email domain seems like a rather draconian business practice
> to me.
>
Don't you need some sort of ISP to get to Hotmail? Do you have an
email address with that provider? When you buy something by mail, many
companies refuse to ship to a post office box number.
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Date: 31 Jan 2005 05:43:14
From: Tony Clark
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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"Bill cum" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.palmtops.pilot.]
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 02:45:19 GMT, Tony Clark
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
SNIP
>>
> Don't you need some sort of ISP to get to Hotmail? Do you have an
> email address with that provider? When you buy something by mail, many
> companies refuse to ship to a post office box number.
>
No you don't need an ISP to get to Hotmail. All you need is web access which
you can get at your local public library or at any Internet Cafe. Also some
ISPs only provide a single email address and there may be multiple people
who live at an address that need or want different email addresses but do
not want to pay for separate ISP plans.
As was stated previously, I have an email address that I'd prefer not to
hand out to Internet companies that like to sell that information to
spammers.
TC
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Date: 31 Jan 2005 00:17:57
From: DevilsPGD
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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In message <[email protected] > "Tony
Clark" <[email protected] > wrote:
>As was stated previously, I have an email address that I'd prefer not to
>hand out to Internet companies that like to sell that information to
>spammers.
But you'd not only give these companies your money, but also your credit
card or bank account information?
--
Give a man a fire, he'll be warm for a while.
Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Date: 31 Jan 2005 15:18:55
From: Tony Clark
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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"DevilsPGD" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]> "Tony
> Clark" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>As was stated previously, I have an email address that I'd prefer not to
>>hand out to Internet companies that like to sell that information to
>>spammers.
>
> But you'd not only give these companies your money, but also your credit
> card or bank account information?
>
>
SNIP
Most credit cards are protected from fraudulent useage.
TC
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Date: 27 Jan 2005 11:31:06
From: Joe Johnson
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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"Tony Clark" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> What does a person's email account have to do with a purchase? If I give
you
> a legit credit card what do you care about my email address. Many of us
use
> hotmail and other free email accounts as a way to filter spam and and
avoid
> being harassed when companies sell email address and customer information
to
> others. Plus many people actually pay to use email accounts like hotmail
> becasue they purchase additional storage capacity from the provider so in
> effect it's not necessarily a free email account. Rejecting a purchase
based
> on a person's email domain seems like a rather draconian business practice
> to me.
>
Agree 100%, Tony. Well said--I use a separate email account as a spam
filter.
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Date: 26 Jan 2005 21:03:27
From: DevilsPGD
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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In message <[email protected] > "Tony
Clark" <[email protected] > wrote:
>What does a person's email account have to do with a purchase? If I give you
>a legit credit card what do you care about my email address. Many of us use
>hotmail and other free email accounts as a way to filter spam and and avoid
>being harassed when companies sell email address and customer information to
>others. Plus many people actually pay to use email accounts like hotmail
>becasue they purchase additional storage capacity from the provider so in
>effect it's not necessarily a free email account. Rejecting a purchase based
>on a person's email domain seems like a rather draconian business practice
>to me.
It's really simple: Chargebacks are very expensive for a company to
process and the vast majority of chargebacks (due to credit card fraud)
come from hotmail addresses.
--
A well-dressed man walks into a bar and asks a woman to sleep
with him for $1M. The woman is excited and she gives immediate
consent: "Of course I'll sleep with you!".
Then the man asks, "will you sleep with me for $5?". The woman
indignantly replies, "Of course not! What do you think I am?".
The man replies, "We've already established what you are; now
we're merely haggling over the price."
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Date: 27 Jan 2005 10:51:14
From: Arthur Hagen
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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DevilsPGD <[email protected] > wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>
> "Tony Clark" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> What does a person's email account have to do with a purchase? If I
>> give you a legit credit card what do you care about my email
>> address. Many of us use hotmail and other free email accounts as a
>> way to filter spam and and avoid being harassed when companies sell
>> email address and customer information to others. Plus many people
>> actually pay to use email accounts like hotmail becasue they
>> purchase additional storage capacity from the provider so in effect
>> it's not necessarily a free email account. Rejecting a purchase
>> based on a person's email domain seems like a rather draconian
>> business practice to me.
>
> It's really simple: Chargebacks are very expensive for a company to
> process and the vast majority of chargebacks (due to credit card
> fraud) come from hotmail addresses.
Excuse my French, but so fucking what? In that case, the email address is
used as a demographic factor for the vendor to determine statistical *risk*.
You might as well ask for even more information, and ban purchases based on
name, race and age. I'm damn sure there's significant statistical
correlations for those factors too.
People have a *right* to be treated as innocents even when they belong to a
group with a statistical higher risk of not being innocent.
Also, believing that blocking free email accounts will help reduce fraud is
just a belief. It won't stop the bad guys from trading hacked *paid for*
email accounts (which they do) just as they trade stolen credit card
numbers. It'll more likely stop *honest* buyers.
Unless you refrain from *offering* the product to a group in the first
place, you have no right to then ban them because they belong to a certain
group that has nothing to do with the product -- *even* if you think it will
reduce *your* risk. It's *ism, whether it's based on an email address,
race, religion or hat size.
--
*Art
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Date: 27 Jan 2005 16:39:16
From: AaronJ
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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"Arthur Hagen" <[email protected] > wrote:
> you have no right to then ban them because they belong to a certain
>group that has nothing to do with the product -- *even* if you think it will
>reduce *your* risk.
Of course they have the right. It's called the free ket. And we have the
right to vote with our wallets (and of course the right to gripe about it here).
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Date: 27 Jan 2005 19:37:16
From: Arthur Hagen
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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AaronJ <[email protected] > wrote:
> "Arthur Hagen" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> you have no right to then ban them because they belong to a certain
>> group that has nothing to do with the product -- *even* if you think
>> it will reduce *your* risk.
>
> Of course they have the right. It's called the free ket.
Lassez faire, yes, but free ket, no.
A free ket gives me the right to purchase from any vendor, and the vendor
the right to sell to any ket. It doesn't give a vendor rights to refuse
a sale based on factors not related to the product -- that's a *controlled*
ket, which obviously is the opposite of a free ket.
A good example of this is DVD region codes, which does not serve a free
ket at all.
--
*Art
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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Date: 28 Jan 2005 10:55:37
From: =?UTF-8?B?TWFyZWsgU3RhbsSbaw==?=
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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Arthur Hagen napsal(a):
> AaronJ <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Arthur Hagen" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>you have no right to then ban them because they belong to a certain
>>>group that has nothing to do with the product -- *even* if you think
>>>it will reduce *your* risk.
>>
>>Of course they have the right. It's called the free ket.
>
>
> Lassez faire, yes, but free ket, no.
> A free ket gives me the right to purchase from any vendor, and the vendor
> the right to sell to any ket. It doesn't give a vendor rights to refuse
> a sale based on factors not related to the product -- that's a *controlled*
> ket, which obviously is the opposite of a free ket.
>
> A good example of this is DVD region codes, which does not serve a free
> ket at all.
>
So why Ferrary, Bentley, Aston tin, Lamborghini, and VW (with their
Phaeton) require buyers (or their drivers) to undergo a training with
the powerful car their buying, before the sale takes place? And why, if
the driver doesn't pass the test, the REFUSE to sell the car to the
buyer? Is it a discrimination of the incompetent, or an application of
the seller's right to protect himself from damages, arising from damaged
popularity in case some of the incompetent drivers smashes a bus full of
children?
Similarly, any seller has RIGHT to refuse sale to a customer he has a
reason to think would make him more bad than good, which is exactly this
case. You may think anything of this, but it's the SELLER's problem, if
he decides to not accept the buyer's money.
k
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Date: 28 Jan 2005 04:14:05
From: AaronJ
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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"Arthur Hagen" <[email protected] > wrote:
>, but free ket, no.
When *all* vendors are free to make their own lawful business decisions, even
bad ones, you have a free ket.
>It doesn't give a vendor rights to refuse a sale based on factors
>not related to the product
The vender has the right to discriminate against anything they want as long as
it's not against the law (such as race, religion, ect. in the US).
> -- that's a *controlled* ket,
It's only a controlled ket if *all* the vendors are controlled (such as
governmental rent controls in some jurisdictions).
Source: Economics 101... ;)
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Date: 27 Jan 2005 19:03:24
From: Derek
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:37:16 -0500, Arthur Hagen wrote:
> AaronJ <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Arthur Hagen" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> you have no right to then ban them because they belong to a certain
>>> group that has nothing to do with the product -- *even* if you think
>>> it will reduce *your* risk.
>>
>> Of course they have the right. It's called the free ket.
>
> Lassez faire, yes, but free ket, no.
Free ket, yes.
> A free ket gives me the right to purchase from any vendor, and the vendor
> the right to sell to any ket. It doesn't give a vendor rights to refuse
> a sale based on factors not related to the product -- that's a *controlled*
> ket, which obviously is the opposite of a free ket.
That's not really an applicable criticism. Unless HIARCS is a
monopoly, their decision on how they are going to run their business
is hardly a "controlled ket."
> A good example of this is DVD region codes, which does not serve a free
> ket at all.
Not a good example at all. Because DVD region codes are agreed upon by
all of the players in the ket. The criticism here hasn't been about
all the players in the chess software ket. It's about one site.
Businesses have the right to determine the conditions under which they
operate. They get to chose to whom they sell their product, providing
the decision isn't violating the law (discrimination, selling national
secrets, etc). They can choose not to accept all credit cards or
checks. They can set dress codes for patrons.
This particular company has chosen not to do business with people who
use free email accounts. That is, in reality, no different from
businesses that chose not to do business with Post Office boxes.
If one wants to criticize them for making a decision that is
inconvenient for some of their potential customers, so be it. But
let's not exaggerate the importance of their decision.
--
Derek
If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it
poorly.
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Date: 25 Jan 2005 23:50:15
From: Greg Cisko
Subject: Re: Palm Chess HIARCS defeats GM in internet chess match
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I tried to purchase this program. It will not accept a hotmail account. What
is up
with that? They just lost a purchase. Perhaps their program is not so st
either. *DUH*
--
[email protected]
"k Uniacke" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> For the first time in history a Palm chess program (Palm Chess HIARCS)
> defeated a Grandmaster in a 4 game Internet match. The score of 3-1 (2
> wins and 2 draws) against a world top 100 chess player was an
> outstanding achievement giving a performance rating of 2809 Elo.
>
> Now you really can have a GM strength chess program in the Palm of your
> hand!
>
> Find out more and play through the games here:
> http://www.hiarcs.com/phresults.htm#phvgm
>
> Best wishes,
> k
> http://www.hiarcs.com
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