Pirc with 3.Nc3 g6 4.Bf4. How to react ?

Date: 01 Jan 2005 14:12:30
From: Jerome Zago
Subject: Pirc with 3.Nc3 g6 4.Bf4. How to react ?

This isn't covered by the following books IMHO:
- Lev Alburt - Pirc Alert!
- Joe Gallagher - Starting out: the Pirc/Modern

It doesn't seem bad though, because it prepares 5.Qd2 and it covers e5. What
should I do against this variation with black ? 4...Bg7, 4...c6, something
else ? I play 4...c6 against 4.Be3 and 4...Fg7 against 4.Bg5.

Thanks for your time.

--
Fingerprint: 8741 62F1 586D D440 C5CA D1CA CBE5 669A 7EA5 D9F9

Date: 05 Jan 2005 12:54:48
From: Randy Bauer
Subject: Re: Pirc with 3.Nc3 g6 4.Bf4. How to react ?

"Jerome Zago" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This isn't covered by the following books IMHO:
> - Lev Alburt - Pirc Alert!
> - Joe Gallagher - Starting out: the Pirc/Modern
>
> It doesn't seem bad though, because it prepares 5.Qd2 and it covers e5.
> What
> should I do against this variation with black ? 4...Bg7, 4...c6, something
> else ? I play 4...c6 against 4.Be3 and 4...Fg7 against 4.Bg5.
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
4.Bf4 could conceivably transpose to lines where white plays Be3/Bg5 and,
after Qd2, eventually Bh6. There is coverage of 4.Bf4 independently in some
other Pirc books. Nunn and McNabb's The Ultimate Pirc analyze 4.Bf4 Bg7
5.Qd2 (5.h3 0-0 6.Nf3 c5 7.dxc5 Qa5 8.Bd3 Qxc5 9.0-0 Nc6 10.Re1 Be6 11.a3
Rac8 12.Qc1 Rfd8 = Shirazi-D.Gurevich, USA Ch. 1986) 5...c6 (5...0-0 6.0-0-0
c6 7.Bh6 is one of those transpositions to lines normally seen after 4.Be3)
6.h3 (6.Bh6 again transposes to more normal lines) 6...b5 7.Bd3 Nh5 8.Be3
Nd7 9.Nf3 Qa5 10.0-0 0-0 11.Ne2! (11.b4 Qxb4 12.a4 bxa4 13.Nd5 Qxd2 14.Nxe7+
Kh8 15.Nxd2 c5! 16.c3 Nb6 =) 11...Qxd2 12.Nxd2 f5 13.f3 f4 14.Bf2 Rb8 15.a4
b4 16.Nb3 Nb6 17.Be1! with an edge for white, Bareev-Goldin, USSR Cht 1988.

They also mention 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Bf4 0-0 6.Qd2, when white often angles for the
types of Bh6 positions. I would tend to prefer lines where black isn't so
accomodating with 5...0-0 (which they also say is most common but not
necessarily best). The alternatives include 5...Nc6 (aiming for a logical
...e5 that will point out one of the problems with the bishop placement),
5...c6 (typical queenside expansion, especially if white is considering
castling long) and 5...c5 6.dxc5 Qa5.

Among other Pirc works, Videcki's The Pirc Defense suggests 4...a6!? (but
also notes that 4...Nbd7 5.Nf3 Bg7 transposes elsewhere) 5.e5 (again 5.Nf3
transposes to coverage elsewhere) 5...Nh5 6.Be3 Nc6 7.Be2 Ng7 8.f4 Nf5 9.Bf2
dxe5 10.dxe5 h5 11.Nf3 Bh6 12.Qxd8+ Nxd8 13.g3 Bd7 14.0-0 Ne6 =
Hamdouchi-Beliavsky, Las Vegas 1999. This is one of those games where you
might say something like "remember kids, Big Al is a professional; don't try
this at home."

Finally, An Explosive Repertoire for Black (Yrjola and Tella) says that
4.Bf4 "is not a very well known idea but it is no so easy to face. The
potential problem compared to Be3 is that the bishop is on a more vulnerable
square." They analyze 4...c6 5.Qd2 b5 (they note that 5...Nbd7 6.Nf3 Qa5 is
another interesting method, but 5...Bg7 6.Bh6 falls in with white's plans)
6.Bd3 (less active is 6.a3 Nbd7 7.Nf3 Nb6 8.h3 Bg7 9.Bd3 0-0 10.0-0 a6 11.e5
dxe5 12.dxe5 Nfd6 = Lutikov-Karasev, Rostov 1976) 6...Nbd7 7.Nf3 Nb68.h3 Bg7
9.Bh6 0-0 10.Bxg7 Kxg7 11.0-0 Qc7 12.a4 b4 13.Ne2 a5 14.Ng3 e5 (they suggest
that 14...c5!? 15.e5 dxe5 16.dxe5 Ng8 looks playable and more solid) 15.c3
bxc3 16.Qxc3 with a slight advantage for white, Kuzmin-Ponoiov, Donetsk Z
1998.

Personally, I'd delay ...Bg7 for awhile, which falls into white's plans,
probably with 4...c6. The idea of 5...Nbd7 and 6...Qa5 appeals to me a bit
more than 5...b5, which, unless white castles queenside, may just prove to
be loosening. As noted in other replies, there are several reasonable
replies available to black.

Randy Bauer

Date: 07 Jan 2005 01:01:33
From: Antonio Torrecillas
Subject: Re: Pirc with 3.Nc3 g6 4.Bf4. How to react ?

En/na Randy Bauer ha escrit:

> (...) Finally, An Explosive Repertoire for Black (Yrjola + Tella) says that
> 4.Bf4 "is not a very well known idea but it is no so easy to face. The
> potential problem compared to Be3 is that the bishop is on a more vulnerable
> square." They analyze 4...c6 5.Qd2 b5 (they note that 5...Nbd7 6.Nf3 Qa5 is
> another interesting method, but 5...Bg7 6.Bh6 falls in with white's plans)
> (...)
>
> Personally, I'd delay ...Bg7 for awhile, which falls into white's plans,
> probably with 4...c6. The idea of 5...Nbd7 and 6...Qa5 appeals to me a bit
> more than 5...b5, which, unless white castles queenside, may just prove to
> be loosening. As noted in other replies, there are several reasonable
> replies available to black.
>
> Randy Bauer

Hello Mr Bauer (and group),

I sometimes try to discover what were the choices of stronger players as
a complement to my studies of some line.

That 4.Bf4 seems an interesting way to put some problems to black.

In that case, 4...c6 was the choice of Ponoiov and in but
unfortunately I have only one game of each player with that line (I
don't know if they feel confortable and would repeat the same line).

Your choice 4.Bf4 c6 5.Qd2 Nbd7!? 6.Nf3 Qa5 seems very interersting. I
have check it in my database and it appears 10 times.
- 5 of those games continued with 7.e5 which seems critical.
Hamdouchi-in 1999 game continued 7.e5 de5 8.de5 Ng4 and here white
can play 9.e6!? which can be considered as "thematical". I have no games
with that 9.e6, and only one more game with 8.de5 which continued with
8...Nh5 (Gavrikov-TCheskovski 2001)
* Fritz8 considers that position as advantage for white despite being a
pawn down (usually a bad notice for black).
* But Hamdouchi who can be considered an specialist in that line (He was
white too in 4...a6 Beliavski game) played 3 years later a different
move (7.Bd3: Hamdouchyi-Lesky, 2002). Curiously Hamdouchy rejected 7.e5
de5 8.de5 and the interesting alternative 7.e5 de5 8.Ne5.

... Have you any opinion about 4.Bf4 c6 5.Qd2 Nbd7!? 6.Nf3 Qa5 7.e5!?

AT

Date: 01 Jan 2005 20:18:23
From: Tiger Legion
Subject: Re: Pirc with 3.Nc3 g6 4.Bf4. How to react ?

Date: 02 Jan 2005 02:23:53
From: Antonio Torrecillas
Subject: Re: Pirc with 3.Nc3 g6 4.Bf4. How to react ?

En/na Tiger Legion ha escrit:
> "Jerome Zago" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>This isn't covered by the following books IMHO:
>>- Lev Alburt - Pirc Alert!
>>- Joe Gallagher - Starting out: the Pirc/Modern
>>
>>It doesn't seem bad though, because it prepares 5.Qd2 and it covers e5.
>>What
>>should I do against this variation with black ? 4...Bg7, 4...c6, something
>>else ? I play 4...c6 against 4.Be3 and 4...Fg7 against 4.Bg5.
>>
>>Thanks for your time.
>>
>>--
>
> Quick sequence against Junior 8 just as a curiousity:
>
> 1. e4 d6
> 2. d4 Nf6
> 3. Nc3 g6
> 4. Bf4 Bg7
> 5. Qd2 O-O
> 6. Bh6 e5
> 7. d5 Ne4
> 8. Ne4 Qh4
> 9. Bg7 Qe4
> 10. Be2 Kg7
> 11. Nf3 Nd7
> 12. Ng5 Qf5
>
> 4. Bf4 is a book move for Junior--- no suprise there.

Here you have some choices from Top players:
4... Bg7 Kramnik
4... a6 Beliavski
4... c6 in, Ponoiov

AT

Date: 01 Jan 2005 19:01:08
From:
Subject: Re: Pirc with 3.Nc3 g6 4.Bf4. How to react ?

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 14:12:30 +0100, Jerome Zago
<[email protected] > wrote:

>This isn't covered by the following books IMHO:
>- Lev Alburt - Pirc Alert!
>- Joe Gallagher - Starting out: the Pirc/Modern
>
>It doesn't seem bad though, because it prepares 5.Qd2 and it covers e5. What
>should I do against this variation with black ? 4...Bg7, 4...c6, something
>else ? I play 4...c6 against 4.Be3 and 4...Fg7 against 4.Bg5.
>
>Thanks for your time.

My thoughts on this is an immediate 4...Nh5 as this will put the
question to the bishop on f4. This bishop has to be harrassed as soon
as possible because if it's allowed to stay on f4 the threat of White
pushing for e5 becomes overwhelming. Interesting that this variation
isn't covered. Very curious indeed.

Date: 05 Jan 2005 12:58:01
From: Randy Bauer
Subject: Re: Pirc with 3.Nc3 g6 4.Bf4. How to react ?

<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 14:12:30 +0100, Jerome Zago
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>This isn't covered by the following books IMHO:
>>- Lev Alburt - Pirc Alert!
>>- Joe Gallagher - Starting out: the Pirc/Modern
>>
>>It doesn't seem bad though, because it prepares 5.Qd2 and it covers e5.
>>What
>>should I do against this variation with black ? 4...Bg7, 4...c6, something
>>else ? I play 4...c6 against 4.Be3 and 4...Fg7 against 4.Bg5.
>>
>>Thanks for your time.
>
> My thoughts on this is an immediate 4...Nh5 as this will put the
> question to the bishop on f4. This bishop has to be harrassed as soon
> as possible because if it's allowed to stay on f4 the threat of White
> pushing for e5 becomes overwhelming. Interesting that this variation
> isn't covered. Very curious indeed.

While ...Nh5 hitting the bishop may prove useful (such as if the knight is
kicked by e4-e5), I wouldn't do it immediately. After 4...Nh5 5.Be3 the
knight can end up looking kind of funny, and white can continue with normal
plans associated with Be3 -- Qd2, Bh6 for example. The knight might end up
as a target or looking kind of funny hanging out on h5.

Randy Bauer