Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

Date: 27 Oct 2006 02:59:16
From: Sanny
Subject: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

Two new Players at GetClub Chess are giving Tough Competition and will
win this months Prize no doubt.

Playing at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Here is the Scores for this month. With Numer of Wins with different
Levels

Chrisf : Points Awarded 49.9, He may win $5.00 this month.
Beginner:3 Easy:0 Normal:8 Master:8 Advance:3

Zebediah : Points Awarded 41, He may win $2.00 this month.
Beginner:0 Easy:1 Normal:2 Master:12 Advance:0

Nomorechess : Points Awarded 24.1, He may win $1.00 this month.
Beginner:7 Easy:7 Normal:6 Master:1 Advance:0

Once can see Nomorechess Mostly playes with Lower Level, But he plays
lots of games to reach the Top.

Chrisf is only player which has beaten Advance Level other than Bobby
Pfusher. It takes 1 hour per move I do not understand how he finished
such games.

Zebediah has won most of the Games and may come in TOP 3 in 2-3 months.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 04 Nov 2006 18:03:47
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

Ralf Callenberg wrote:
> 31.10.2006 07:12, help bot:
> > As far as I can tell, it is the fact that an
> > internet connection can be broken, along with the
> > program's apparent reliance upon that connection which
> > has caused many of the complaints about speed of
> > play. Were Sanny's chess program simply downloaded
> > and then executed on each player's own computer, things
> > might be very different.
>
> It's a Java Applet and once you opened the page it is downloaded and
> running on your computer. You may try this out: start an unrated game
> (best on beginners level) and after one move unplug your computer from
> the net. You will see, that it continues playing. There is some
> communication during the game to the server, especially for recording
> the games, but it is not related to the playing itself.

Okay, I will try that in an unrated game. But if it does
play normally, this indicates the program's problems
are not related to my wireless internet connection, and
that would mean Sanny's program is in dire need of
repair.

-- help bot

Date: 31 Oct 2006 22:25:08
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

Ruud wrote:

> I thought it might have something to do with the programming skills, but you
> could be right also.

Apparently Jester also uses Java, but without any
problems like the one with Sanny's program, so I am
still in the dark as to why this retro-analysis occurs.

> But you have to agree with me, when you are pointed out a fluke in your
> work, your logical respons would be to communicate about it, maybe say 'thx'
> to the feed-back. This is not the case

In particular, one poster (maybe you?) here gave a
link to a free site which tests for HTML errors, and to
this Sanny's response was negative -- because his
site was riddled with errors, according to the test.
Yet I have -- countless times -- met with a similar
response after say, making a move which refuted
my opponent's last. Logic goes out the window, to
be usurped by emotion. This is why I never liked you
humans.

> Thus proves the fact, that this is just advertizements for a website he
> delivers.
> AND: in a newsgroup: spam/advertizing is not done.

I believe it is allowable, so long as it is restricted to
an appropriate newsgroup (as here, with Sanny's chess
program) and limited such as not to become a nuisance.
Once again, what *you* choose to label as spam is not
necessarily spam to everyone else. Just because the
program is not world class, does not make it spam.
And (one more time) the fact remains that this thread,
just like others before it, is clearly labeled as to subject
matter. A st guy ought to be able to find some way
to avoid reading about GetClub, by looking at the thread
title before reading what's in the thread. This means that
only the dumb ones should be complaining about getting
spammed, right? ; >D

-- help bot

Date: 30 Oct 2006 22:12:58
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

Ruud wrote:

> I have never, nor will ever put down on other peoples achievements,
> especially in computer-programming (I know too little about it to justify
> it).
> I've never put down Sanny's work. I've played his game once, won easy and
> said so in my comments, adding that the programm had some faults, according
> to chess-rules.
> The point is, that where it's about the chess-game, there are many negative
> posts, because it doesnt' live up to the expectations, raised by the author,
> and the author doesn't respond to those posts.
> The counterpart only being, that 'Sanny is a nice person', as if that
> matters.
> When I look at the communications that are going on (and not at the
> chessgame), I must feel amused, only because I don't want to get irritated.
> And that is annoying in itself.

From what I have seen here, Sanny was "brutalized" for
making unfounded claims regarding the greatness of his
program, apparently out of a combination of ignorance
and hyper-optimism. A confessed weak player, who
cannot except on rare flukes defeat his own Beginner
level, Sanny was in no postion to accurately assess his
program's strength, and an examination of the program
reveals its creators were not even familiar with the rules,
for example, regarding checkmate and draws. In view
of these facts, it is somewhat rekable that they (a
supposed "team" of programmers) were able to get the
program up to its current level, which in my opinion plays
decent chess. As far as I can tell, it is the fact that an
internet connection can be broken, along with the
program's apparent reliance upon that connection which
has caused many of the complaints about speed of
play. Were Sanny's chess program simply downloaded
and then executed on each player's own computer, things
might be very different. I have trouble imagining such a
program "forgetting" that it finished analysing, say, the
6th ply, and reverting back to ply 3 -- which is how things
often work now.
In fact, were it not for this problem I probably would have
had the time to give Sanny some much-needed help in
improving the program. Instead, I have to worry that my
notebook's battery will run down before I can get halfway
through a single game against a lower level.

Here is another thing: the thread titles clearly show
that Sanny's supposed "spam" relates to his Web site,
so how can any rational being claim he is spamming,
(unless they are too dim-witted to read the thread title
and just skip over it)?

Regarding this thread's title, the "tough competition" is
between those other guys, since I cannot compete
under these circumstances. Last time I checked, they
had already left my current point total in the dust --
nailing down the two really "big" prizes ($5 and $2).

-- help bot

Date: 04 Nov 2006 12:04:21
From: Ralf Callenberg
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

31.10.2006 07:12, help bot:
> As far as I can tell, it is the fact that an
> internet connection can be broken, along with the
> program's apparent reliance upon that connection which
> has caused many of the complaints about speed of
> play. Were Sanny's chess program simply downloaded
> and then executed on each player's own computer, things
> might be very different.

It's a Java Applet and once you opened the page it is downloaded and
running on your computer. You may try this out: start an unrated game
(best on beginners level) and after one move unplug your computer from
the net. You will see, that it continues playing. There is some
communication during the game to the server, especially for recording
the games, but it is not related to the playing itself.

Greetings,
Ralf

Date: 31 Oct 2006 11:41:04
From: Ruud
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

"help bot" <[email protected] > schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
>
> Ruud wrote:
>
>> I have never, nor will ever put down on other peoples achievements,
>> especially in computer-programming (I know too little about it to justify
>> it).
>> I've never put down Sanny's work. I've played his game once, won easy and
>> said so in my comments, adding that the programm had some faults,
>> according
>> to chess-rules.
>> The point is, that where it's about the chess-game, there are many
>> negative
>> posts, because it doesnt' live up to the expectations, raised by the
>> author,
>> and the author doesn't respond to those posts.
>> The counterpart only being, that 'Sanny is a nice person', as if that
>> matters.
>> When I look at the communications that are going on (and not at the
>> chessgame), I must feel amused, only because I don't want to get
>> irritated.
>> And that is annoying in itself.
>
>
> From what I have seen here, Sanny was "brutalized" for
> making unfounded claims regarding the greatness of his
> program, apparently out of a combination of ignorance
> and hyper-optimism. A confessed weak player, who
> cannot except on rare flukes defeat his own Beginner
> level, Sanny was in no postion to accurately assess his
> program's strength, and an examination of the program
> reveals its creators were not even familiar with the rules,
> for example, regarding checkmate and draws.

I thought it might have something to do with the programming skills, but you
could be right also.
If Sanny himself would have explained that to me , I might have given more
feed-back, played his game some more to see if it's developed.

> In view
> of these facts, it is somewhat rekable that they (a
> supposed "team" of programmers) were able to get the
> program up to its current level, which in my opinion plays
> decent chess.

yes, that's true.
But you have to agree with me, when you are pointed out a fluke in your
work, your logical respons would be to communicate about it, maybe say 'thx'
to the feed-back. This is not the case (untill yesterday, after I pointed
out this disturbed me).
Thus proves the fact, that this is just advertizements for a website he
delivers.
AND: in a newsgroup: spam/advertizing is not done.

Date: 30 Oct 2006 03:14:33
From: Sanny
Subject: Game Improved again

> I have never, nor will ever put down on other peoples achievements,
> especially in computer-programming (I know too little about it to justify
> it).
> I've never put down Sanny's work. I've played his game once, won easy and
> said so in my comments, adding that the programm had some faults, according

Thanks for your suggestions, Now a bit of arrangment was done So that
it do not overlook good moves

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

I hope now you will find better games with new improvement made.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 29 Oct 2006 23:01:08
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

Ruud Heuvelman wrote:
> > I enjoy bashing Sanny's program because, much like
> > a typical human player, it plays decent-looking moves
> > but every now and then overlooks some "petite
> > combination", as Capablanca would say. My beef is
> > not with Sanny's boasting here, nor really with the
> > slowness of the program,
>
> There are in fact hundreds, or perhaps even thousands of chess programms
> written, and available via internet. Lots of them have ratings of over 2000
> elo as well, but also starters of 1300.
> If all of the authors would plug their produce in the spammers-like fashion
> Sanny does, trying to make money (where they in fact make it available for
> free, + you learn a lot more. I'll show you if u want; you really don't have
> to pay!!!!!), you would talk differently, I'm sure.

Right. And if you are in a crowded elevator and
all of its occupants were to fart at the same moment,
they would all be guilty of conspiracy to commit
murder (by poison gas)! This is why I always use the
stairs.

----------

What you consider spam might well be considered
keting by others, like Sanny. I am quite aware
of the fact that my games and Sanny's amatuerish
chess program are not "world class", and may well be
seen as cluttering up rgc by some, while others may
find them amusing -- just as with a multitude of other
posters' comments, some of which relate to very
specific agendas. This focus upon the rating or
strength of Sanny's program overlooks the fact that
not everyone wants a sparring partner, so to speak,
which can win every game via brute force. To me,
this focus has but one evident motive: ad hominem.
Sanny's many exaggerations (yes, I am being overly
kind here) ought not to stress you so much that you
feel obligated to assasinate him. Rather, you need
merely take note of this tendency and all the more
carefully scrutinize any successive claims on his part,
dismissing those whuch are not backed up by facts.

--------

Let's have a quick look at one of the most-mentioned
competitors: Jester. After reading several postings in
which Jester was highly praised here, I went and had a
look. Sure enough, it was *much* faster, and appeared
to be immune to many of the problems which plague
Sanny's program. Yet I found the chess board itself to
be a serious issue in that it was too small, and perhaps
the men were more difficult to distinguish -- the pawns
being oversized, for example. In sum, much stronger
but far from ideal for me, since I do not visualize in my
head so much as by staring at the screen and trying
(without great sucess) to magine the men moving on
the graphic board.
Another issue entirely is the idea that when facing an
opponent which "sees" everything, it tends to kill off
one's hopes of winning, and an occasional draw brings
me no great excitement either. What's my goal
supposed to be -- hang on for thirty-five moves before
going down for the count? Not a very lofty goal. Maybe
a quality chess program is so strong these days that its
great strength is also its greatest weakness? Or maybe
my problem is that when playing such a machine, I feel
as though I am probing for tiny programming errors, as
opposed to having a contest of ideas.

-- help bot

Date: 30 Oct 2006 11:45:27
From: Ruud
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

"help bot" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Ruud Heuvelman wrote:
>> > I enjoy bashing Sanny's program because, much like
>> > a typical human player, it plays decent-looking moves
>> > but every now and then overlooks some "petite
>> > combination", as Capablanca would say. My beef is
>> > not with Sanny's boasting here, nor really with the
>> > slowness of the program,
>>
>> There are in fact hundreds, or perhaps even thousands of chess programms
>> written, and available via internet. Lots of them have ratings of over
>> 2000
>> elo as well, but also starters of 1300.
>> If all of the authors would plug their produce in the spammers-like
>> fashion
>> Sanny does, trying to make money (where they in fact make it available
>> for
>> free, + you learn a lot more. I'll show you if u want; you really don't
>> have
>> to pay!!!!!), you would talk differently, I'm sure.
>
>
> Right. And if you are in a crowded elevator and
> all of its occupants were to fart at the same moment,
> they would all be guilty of conspiracy to commit
> murder (by poison gas)! This is why I always use the
> stairs.

Pretty sure it would be caused by spam. ;-)

>
> What you consider spam might well be considered
> keting by others, like Sanny. I am quite aware
> of the fact that my games and Sanny's amatuerish
> chess program are not "world class", and may well be
> seen as cluttering up rgc by some, while others may
> find them amusing -- just as with a multitude of other
> posters' comments, some of which relate to very
> specific agendas. This focus upon the rating or
> strength of Sanny's program overlooks the fact that
> not everyone wants a sparring partner, so to speak,
> which can win every game via brute force. To me,
> this focus has but one evident motive: ad hominem.
> Sanny's many exaggerations (yes, I am being overly
> kind here) ought not to stress you so much that you
> feel obligated to assasinate him. Rather, you need
> merely take note of this tendency and all the more
> carefully scrutinize any successive claims on his part,
> dismissing those whuch are not backed up by facts.
>
> --------
>
> Let's have a quick look at one of the most-mentioned
> competitors: Jester. After reading several postings in
> which Jester was highly praised here, I went and had a
> look. Sure enough, it was *much* faster, and appeared
> to be immune to many of the problems which plague
> Sanny's program. Yet I found the chess board itself to
> be a serious issue in that it was too small, and perhaps
> the men were more difficult to distinguish -- the pawns
> being oversized, for example. In sum, much stronger
> but far from ideal for me, since I do not visualize in my
> head so much as by staring at the screen and trying
> (without great sucess) to magine the men moving on
> the graphic board.
> Another issue entirely is the idea that when facing an
> opponent which "sees" everything, it tends to kill off
> one's hopes of winning, and an occasional draw brings
> me no great excitement either. What's my goal
> supposed to be -- hang on for thirty-five moves before
> going down for the count? Not a very lofty goal. Maybe
> a quality chess program is so strong these days that its
> great strength is also its greatest weakness? Or maybe
> my problem is that when playing such a machine, I feel
> as though I am probing for tiny programming errors, as
> opposed to having a contest of ideas.

I have never, nor will ever put down on other peoples achievements,
especially in computer-programming (I know too little about it to justify
it).
I've never put down Sanny's work. I've played his game once, won easy and
said so in my comments, adding that the programm had some faults, according
to chess-rules.
The point is, that where it's about the chess-game, there are many negative
posts, because it doesnt' live up to the expectations, raised by the author,
and the author doesn't respond to those posts.
The counterpart only being, that 'Sanny is a nice person', as if that
matters.
When I look at the communications that are going on (and not at the
chessgame), I must feel amused, only because I don't want to get irritated.
And that is annoying in itself.

Date: 28 Oct 2006 01:21:58
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> In rec.games.chess.computer Smegma Bin Cummin <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <> $5, $2 and $1 prizes? Really?
> >>
> >
> > Gee, how much are you putting up? Zero? Maybe you should put up a $1000
> > chess challenge against Sam Sloan? The last guy that did that got stomped
> > and lost his money too.

Who lost his $1,000 to Sam Sloan?

> I guess my point is that it isn't much of a reward. The value itself isn't
> there. However, consider the sttourney tournaments on ICC. You get a free
> month of service when you win. Now, that has greater value in the sense that
> you had fun playing and you received extended privileges. In fact, it's
> monetary value is stil only about $5.
>
> So, my point is that $1, $2 and $5 is more of a hassle to collect and has
> little value. Sanny has been rather obnoxious in this forum up until now, and
> my post reflects that as well.

Sanny's prizes are not any hassle to collect; they are
awarded automatically and all you do is log on and see
that your remaining free games number has increased.
Clearly, in order to know this one would have to have at
some time actually won such a prize. ; >D

I enjoy bashing Sanny's program because, much like
a typical human player, it plays decent-looking moves
but every now and then overlooks some "petite
combination", as Capablanca would say. My beef is
not with Sanny's boasting here, nor really with the
slowness of the program, but with the retro-analysis
problem whereby the program repeatedly reverts back
to a search-depth it already completed. This slows
things down to a crawl; in fact, many of my games at
the lower levels take longer than the "one hour per
move" which Sanny recently mentioned with regard
to the Advance level someone else is beating up on.
Once I get back into shape chesswise, I will be flying
to Manilla to play Mr. Sloan for $1 million -- winner take
all. After thrashing him, I plan to play Gordy for $2
million in Vegas (a bullet chess match). Then off to
Iceland for the real challenge.

-- help bot

Date: 30 Oct 2006 13:31:16
From: Duncan Oxley
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

"help bot" <[email protected] > wrote

>
> Who lost his $1,000 to Sam Sloan?
>

Bill Brock lost the match. A few people put up the money.

On ICC I have saved the games and you can access them
by typing on ICC: finger GRUDGE05

--Duncan

Date: 28 Oct 2006 12:26:02
From: Ruud Heuvelman
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

> I enjoy bashing Sanny's program because, much like
> a typical human player, it plays decent-looking moves
> but every now and then overlooks some "petite
> combination", as Capablanca would say. My beef is
> not with Sanny's boasting here, nor really with the
> slowness of the program,

There are in fact hundreds, or perhaps even thousands of chess programms
written, and available via internet. Lots of them have ratings of over 2000
elo as well, but also starters of 1300.
If all of the authors would plug their produce in the spammers-like fashion
Sanny does, trying to make money (where they in fact make it available for
free, + you learn a lot more. I'll show you if u want; you really don't have
to pay!!!!!), you would talk differently, I'm sure.

Date: 28 Oct 2006 15:56:46
From: Smegma Bin Cummin
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

"Ruud Heuvelman" < > If all of the authors would plug their produce in the
spammers-like fashion Sanny does, trying to make money (where they in fact
make it available for free, + you learn a lot more. I'll show you if u
want; >>

I thought Sanny was TOTALLY FREE? I guess not? What are the best FREE Chess
websites/programs that are on the internet?

Date: 28 Oct 2006 23:27:15
From: Ruud
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

"Smegma Bin Cummin" <[email protected] > schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> "Ruud Heuvelman" <> If all of the authors would plug their produce in the
> spammers-like fashion Sanny does, trying to make money (where they in fact
> make it available for free, + you learn a lot more. I'll show you if u
> want;>>
>
> I thought Sanny was TOTALLY FREE? I guess not? What are the best FREE
> Chess
> websites/programs that are on the internet?

To play totally free:
Platform on which to play:
Arena: http://www.playwitharena.com/ (choose Arena-downloads and save the
download)

Engines with which to play:
http://www.uciengines.de/UCI-Engines/uci-engines.html (check Toga,
Gambitfruit, Rybka, Spike, Glaurung, Naum as the best)
or: http://wbec-ridderkerk.nl/html/enginesindex.htm
or: http://wbec-ridderkerk.nl/html/newspage.htm
or: http://wbec-ridderkerk.nl/html/lastupdates.htm
or: http://www.rybkachess.com/index.php?auswahl=Download+demo (free Rybka
1.0, better than most commercial engines)

Rating lists: http://wbec-ridderkerk.nl/html/BayesianElo_ed12.htm

You don't have to play for free games, cause all your games are free to
begin with. GM-level, or engines of modest rating, etc..
(How about this for a plug.;-)).
Greetings from Ruud.

Date: 27 Oct 2006 12:20:13
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

In rec.games.chess.computer Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> Two new Players at GetClub Chess are giving Tough Competition and will
> win this months Prize no doubt.
>

$5, $2 and $1 prizes? Really?

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0

Date: 27 Oct 2006 09:36:13
From: Smegma Bin Cummin
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" < > $5, $2 and $1 prizes? Really?
>

Gee, how much are you putting up? Zero? Maybe you should put up a $1000
chess challenge against Sam Sloan? The last guy that did that got stomped
and lost his money too.

Date: 27 Oct 2006 19:52:32
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Tough Competition at GetClub Chess by new Players.

In rec.games.chess.computer Smegma Bin Cummin <[email protected] > wrote:
> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <> $5, $2 and $1 prizes? Really?
>>
>
> Gee, how much are you putting up? Zero? Maybe you should put up a $1000
> chess challenge against Sam Sloan? The last guy that did that got stomped
> and lost his money too.
>

I guess my point is that it isn't much of a reward. The value itself isn't
there. However, consider the sttourney tournaments on ICC. You get a free
month of service when you win. Now, that has greater value in the sense that
you had fun playing and you received extended privileges. In fact, it's
monetary value is stil only about $5.

So, my point is that $1, $2 and $5 is more of a hassle to collect and has
little value. Sanny has been rather obnoxious in this forum up until now, and
my post reflects that as well.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0