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Date: 25 Oct 2008 19:50:04
From: Tantale
Subject: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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I just made it today
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=y2tTxDaJmdg
JMRW
http://www.jmrw.com/
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Date: 27 Oct 2008 10:37:31
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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On Oct 25, 10:50=A0pm, "Tantale" <[email protected] > wrote:
> I just made it today
>
> http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dy2tTxDaJmdg
>
> JMRWhttp://www.jmrw.com/
Isn't a queen vs two knights a draw if played properly. :)
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Date: 06 Nov 2008 08:18:27
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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On Nov 6, 7:30=A0pm, Martin Brown <
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Date: 09 Nov 2008 19:15:35
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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chessplayer <[email protected] > wrote:
> Martin Brown <
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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Date: 06 Nov 2008 05:39:33
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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On Nov 6, 3:57=A0pm, Martin Brown <
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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Date: 04 Nov 2008 09:03:18
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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On Nov 4, 12:13=A0am, Martin Brown <
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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Date: 03 Nov 2008 21:43:49
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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On Oct 28, 2:45=A0pm, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
> >>> Isn't a queen vs two knights a draw if played properly. :)
>
> >> No. =A0Except in positions where the side with the knights can
> >> capture the queen or is stalemated, the queen wins.
> Actually, there aren't any stalemates possible.
Wrong. One method of winning is to capture one
of the two Knights, and in doing so, there arises a
possibility of stalemate (which must be avoided in
order to win). For instance:
Black: Kh8, Ng8
White: Kg6, Qd8
White has just captured one of the Knights on d8,
but fails to win due to stalemate.
-- help bot
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Date: 05 Nov 2008 18:48:24
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
> David Richerby <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> David Richerby wrote:
>>>> Except in positions where the side with the knights can capture
>>>> the queen or is stalemated, the queen wins.
>>
>> Actually, there aren't any stalemates possible.
>
> Wrong. One method of winning is to capture one of the two Knights,
> and in doing so, there arises a possibility of stalemate (which must
> be avoided in order to win). For instance:
>
> Black: Kh8, Ng8 White: Kg6, Qd8
Sure but I meant that there is no way to arrange two kings, two
knights of the same colour and one queen of the opposite colour on the
board such that the side to move is stalemated. Clearly, in any
situation where one side has a queen, there is the possibility that
the opponent will blunder material and the player with the queen will
blunder into a stalemate.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Sumerian Cat (TM): it's like a cat
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ that's really old!
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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Date: 03 Nov 2008 04:36:34
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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On Nov 3, 5:13=A0pm, Martin Brown <
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Date: 03 Nov 2008 04:33:57
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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On Nov 3, 5:13=A0pm, Martin Brown <
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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Date: 01 Nov 2008 01:55:07
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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On Oct 31, 6:38=A0pm, Martin Brown <
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Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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Date: 03 Nov 2008 17:38:42
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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Martin Brown <
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Date: 31 Oct 2008 05:25:47
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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On Oct 29, 12:45=A0am, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
> chessplayer <[email protected]> wrote:
> > David Richerby <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> chessplayer <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> Isn't a queen vs two knights a draw if played properly. :)
>
> >> No. =A0Except in positions where the side with the knights can
> >> capture the queen or is stalemated, the queen wins.
>
> Actually, there aren't any stalemates possible.
>
> > Its tough enough to fork the king and one knight. If you are not
> > careful the game could end with you getting forked. But of course if
> > one is careful its an easy win. But with two knights one would
> > assume that the person could draw the game.
>
> Well, against a five-man tablebase, one would be assuming incorrectly,
> except for pathological positions.
I did a detailed computer analysis with 2 knights to white vs Queen
for black. It comes up a draw every single time. Now either the
program is screwed up or its a draw every time. I guess if white (in
this instance makes a mistake) than the Queen can get a knight and
then its all over. But if white plays properly vs black than 2 knights
can always draw vs the Queen. However, as I stated maybe my program is
not good enough and getting a draw is easy against it while against a
superior program it might be a win for black. :)
>
> > Is it a difficult theoritical win or relatively easy. :)
>
> No idea. =A0You can Google it just as well as I can.
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Sad=
istic Generic Windows (TM): it'swww.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/=A0 =A0 =
=A0 like a graphical user interface but
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 it's just like all the others and it
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 wants to hurt you!
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Date: 31 Oct 2008 18:03:03
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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chessplayer <[email protected] > wrote:
> David Richerby <[email protected]> wrote:
>> chessplayer <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Its tough enough to fork the king and one knight. If you are not
>>> careful the game could end with you getting forked. But of course
>>> if one is careful its an easy win. But with two knights one would
>>> assume that the person could draw the game.
>>
>> Well, against a five-man tablebase, one would be assuming incorrectly,
>> except for pathological positions.
>
> I did a detailed computer analysis with 2 knights to white vs Queen
> for black. It comes up a draw every single time.
Well, your analysis was wrong, then. Even strong computers are often
relatively weak in the endgame, without tablebases.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Surprise Adult Pants (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a well-tailored pair of trousers that
you won't want the children to see
but not like you'd expect!
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Date: 28 Oct 2008 11:40:30
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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On Oct 28, 1:30=A0am, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
> In article <[email protected].=
com >,
>
> chessplayer =A0<[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Oct 25, 10:50=3DA0pm, "Tantale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> I just made it today
>
> >>http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=3D3Dy2tTxDaJmdg
>
> >> JMRWhttp://www.jmrw.com/
>
> >Isn't a queen vs two knights a draw if played properly. :)
>
> No. =A0Except in positions where the side with the knights can capture
> the queen or is stalemated, the queen wins.
Its tough enough to fork the king and one knight. If you are not
careful the game could end with you getting forked. But of course if
one is careful its an easy win. But with two knights one would assume
that the person could draw the game. Is it a difficult theoritical win
or relatively easy. :)
>
> =A0http://tinyurl.com/6awajx
>
> (which points to
>
> =A0http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3DK0fm_3Mx5iMC&pg=3DPA278&lpg=3DPA2=
78&dq...
>
> )
>
> Dave.
> --
> David Richerby =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Old-Fas=
hioned Voodoo Puzzle (TM): it'swww.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/=A0 =A0 l=
ike an intriguing conundrum that has
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 mystical powers but it's perfect for
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 your grandparents!
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Date: 01 Nov 2008 01:56:53
From: chessplayer
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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On Oct 31, 11:03=A0pm, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
> chessplayer <[email protected]> wrote:
> > David Richerby <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> chessplayer <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> Its tough enough to fork the king and one knight. If you are not
> >>> careful the game could end with you getting forked. But of course
> >>> if one is careful its an easy win. But with two knights one would
> >>> assume that the person could draw the game.
>
> >> Well, against a five-man tablebase, one would be assuming incorrectly,
> >> except for pathological positions.
>
> > I did a detailed computer analysis with 2 knights to white vs Queen
> > for black. It comes up a draw every single time.
>
> Well, your analysis was wrong, then. =A0Even strong computers are often
> relatively weak in the endgame, without tablebases.
I still believe that theoritically its a draw. However, in
practicality its quite difficult to manouver the knights so well and
all it takes is one mistake upon which the player with the queen can
capture one knight and once that happens its a relatively
straightforward win for the queen. But I still maintain that in theory
its a draw. :)
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Surpri=
se Adult Pants (TM): it's likewww.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/=A0 =A0 =
=A0a well-tailored pair of trousers that
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0you won't want the children to see
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0but not like you'd expect!
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Date: 28 Oct 2008 19:45:42
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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chessplayer <[email protected] > wrote:
> David Richerby <[email protected]> wrote:
>> chessplayer <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Isn't a queen vs two knights a draw if played properly. :)
>>
>> No. Except in positions where the side with the knights can
>> capture the queen or is stalemated, the queen wins.
Actually, there aren't any stalemates possible.
> Its tough enough to fork the king and one knight. If you are not
> careful the game could end with you getting forked. But of course if
> one is careful its an easy win. But with two knights one would
> assume that the person could draw the game.
Well, against a five-man tablebase, one would be assuming incorrectly,
except for pathological positions.
> Is it a difficult theoritical win or relatively easy. :)
No idea. You can Google it just as well as I can.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Sadistic Generic Windows (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a graphical user interface but
it's just like all the others and it
wants to hurt you!
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Date: 27 Oct 2008 20:30:16
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Video of the longest win of a queen over two horses
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In article <[email protected] >,
chessplayer <[email protected] > wrote:
>On Oct 25, 10:50=A0pm, "Tantale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I just made it today
>>
>> http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dy2tTxDaJmdg
>>
>> JMRWhttp://www.jmrw.com/
>
>Isn't a queen vs two knights a draw if played properly. :)
No. Except in positions where the side with the knights can capture
the queen or is stalemated, the queen wins.
http://tinyurl.com/6awajx
(which points to
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=K0fm_3Mx5iMC&pg=PA278&lpg=PA278&dq=endgame+KQ+KNN&source=web&ots=ASiEO79NLZ&sig=EUhuSkhaKnl1K6JRkCRUjoX5fek&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
)
Dave.
--
David Richerby Old-Fashioned Voodoo Puzzle (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like an intriguing conundrum that has
mystical powers but it's perfect for
your grandparents!
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