Waiting for Getclub to move ...

Date: 19 Jan 2007 07:37:48
From: Ron
Subject: Waiting for Getclub to move ...

500 seconds and counting. (On 10 sec/mov.)

I'm black.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.cd ed 5.dc d4 6. Ne4 Nc6 7.Bf4 Nf6 8.Qd3

Wow. Despite being out of book from its fourth move, the computer has
yet to completely embarrass itself. This is surprising. I wouldn't say
it's playing well, mind you - few strong players would choose the early
pawn grab on c5.

8. ... Nxe4 9.Qxe4+ Be6 10.b4?

You knew it was coming. The computer hangs a pawn for nada.

10. ... Nxb4 11.a3 Nc6 12. Nf3 Bxc5

Black is clearly better.

13.Bd2? (the computer should be developing) h6?!

Strictly not necessary, but I'm trying to keep things simple, counting
on the computer to make errors. The point is that 13. ... 0-0 14.Ng5
(which I think even Sannybot would see) wins my useful bishop.

14.Rg1 ??

The funny thing is, against a strong opponent, this sort of move would
make me think for a long time. Is it secretly a strong move, intending
to attack my just-weakened kingside?

But this isn't a plan most good computers would find (even if it was any
good). There's no way in hell Sannybot finds such a plan. I don't even
bother to calculate if my comings moves will hit home before a kingside
pawn storm can hit me.

14. ... 0-0! 15. a4?

Clearly the computer has no idea what to do here.

15. ... Bd5 16.Qd3 Nb4

16. Qg4 would have at least required calculation on my part. White's
simply now allowing my pieces to take up aggressive squares with tempo.

17.Qf5 d3!

And the computer's position falls apart. This is the move where it
thinks for over 600 seconds before playing.

18.Rc1

At least this is, quite possibly, the best move.

18. ... Nc2+ 19.Rxc2 dc 20.Qxc2 Rc8 21.Qd3 Qb6!

Okay, this move was fun. Honestly, it's been a while since I've had any
reason to play a move which required even this much calculation against
Sannybot. Obviously, 22.Qxe4 Bxf2+ 23.Kd1 Qb1+ leads to mate, so ...

22. e4 ?

A move only Sannybot could love. Although, of course, it's dead lost
anyway, 22. e3 made infinitely more sense.

22 ... Bxf2+ 23.Ke2 Bc4 24.Qxc4 Rxc4 25.Rh1

I suppose this is no worse than any other move.

25. ... Rxe4+ 26.Be3 Qxe3+ 27.Kd1 Rd8+ 28.Kc2+ Qc5+

This looks like one of those positions where there's probably a quicker
mate, but that would require me to think. Although since it's going to
take over 90 seconds to figure out it's next move, maybe I should figure
out the quickest mate ... just so I can go to bed at a reasonable hour.

29.Kb3 Rb4+

and he's going to make me play it out another move?

30. Ka2 Qc2 0-1

Date: 21 Jan 2007 00:19:58
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub will play in time from now on.

Sanny wrote:

> Now Easy Level will play like Normal Level.
> Normal Level will play like Advance Level (As game speed increased
> Advance level is also fast.)
> Master Level will go much deeper and take lot of time So that Strong
> players start loosing from it.

Well, that's not bad, for a beginner. Here is how a real pro does
it:

"The flagon with the dragon holds the croisson that is poison;
the vessel with the pestle holds the brew that is true."

You see, the addition of rhyme and rhythm makes all the difference.
Of course, it also helps if you add in Danny Kaye, and have some
semblance of a plot.

-- help bot

Date: 19 Jan 2007 23:47:04
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub will play in time from now on.

help bot wrote:
> Sanny wrote:
>
> > > We could almost stop calling you a liar if you'd stop claiming that
> > > level thought for 10 seconds a move.
>
> No doubt there are some here who will continue to moan even when the
> program is moving quickly enough to "beat them like a carrot". Some
> people are chronic complainers; it's what they live for.
>
> I have been playing recently and find that the move times are much
> faster than before, allowing me to play almost any level I wish, and
> still
> (eventually) finish the games. The truth is, Sanny's program is now
> playing more like a typical human player than ever before, even
> sometimes
> requiring me to see deep tactical tricks in order to win material in
> midgame.
>
> One issue which could be improved is the program's decided tendency
> to move its Queen much too early. For instance, after 1.d4 I decided
> to
> try ...d6, to hopefully take it out of book early. It worked, as the
> very next
> move demonstrated clearly: 2.Qd3. In this game, I was not able to
> *easily*
> exploit the early Queen move, but a little later on I allowed the
> program to
> snatch a poisoned pawn, and there followed a decisive fork. Yet this
> was
> due to a tactical error caused by a lack of tactical-search depth.
> This
> same lack of tactical-search depth reappeared at the end, where I had
> three Rooks against a King, and the program did not manage to avoid a
> fairly simple mate-in-three threat. On the other hand, it played
> reasonably
> quickly.
>

Now on do not play with Master Level. as it will think a lot longer.

As the game speed has been improved and I find strong players easily
beating higher levels.

Now Easy Level will play like Normal Level.
Normal Level will play like Advance Level (As game speed increased
Advance level is also fast.)
Master Level will go much deeper and take lot of time So that Strong
players start loosing from it.

Start playing with lower levels else you may endup in Large times
Games. Let me know if you like the increasing of strength of
easy/Normal Levels.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 19 Jan 2007 23:45:00
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub will play in time from now on.

Date: 19 Jan 2007 23:00:39
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GetClub will play in time from now on.

Sanny wrote:

> > We could almost stop calling you a liar if you'd stop claiming that
> > level thought for 10 seconds a move.

No doubt there are some here who will continue to moan even when the
program is moving quickly enough to "beat them like a carrot". Some
people are chronic complainers; it's what they live for.

I have been playing recently and find that the move times are much
faster than before, allowing me to play almost any level I wish, and
still
(eventually) finish the games. The truth is, Sanny's program is now
playing more like a typical human player than ever before, even
sometimes
requiring me to see deep tactical tricks in order to win material in
midgame.

One issue which could be improved is the program's decided tendency
to move its Queen much too early. For instance, after 1.d4 I decided
to
try ...d6, to hopefully take it out of book early. It worked, as the
very next
move demonstrated clearly: 2.Qd3. In this game, I was not able to
*easily*
exploit the early Queen move, but a little later on I allowed the
program to
snatch a poisoned pawn, and there followed a decisive fork. Yet this
was
due to a tactical error caused by a lack of tactical-search depth.
This
same lack of tactical-search depth reappeared at the end, where I had
three Rooks against a King, and the program did not manage to avoid a
fairly simple mate-in-three threat. On the other hand, it played
reasonably
quickly.

-- help bot

Date: 19 Jan 2007 22:20:39
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GetClub will play in time from now on.

> If it plays without ever going above 40 seconds a move on that level
> I'll consider it.
>
> And, what do you know ... it just did. It may have even never gotten to
> 30.
>
> We could almost stop calling you a liar if you'd stop claiming that
> level thought for 10 seconds a move.

Here is a game played by cfaz with Beginner Level in which cfaz won in
86 Moves. A very long game.

Beginner (White), cfaz (Black)

Recorded Game at:
http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM5917&game=Chess

Lets see how much time Beginner Level took.

Total Moves: 86

Moves that took 10-20 seconds: 65 out of 86 (75%)
Moves that took more than 20 seconds: 21 out of 86 (25%)
Moves that took more than 30 seconds: 11 out of 86 (12%)
Moves that took more than 40 seconds: 4 out of 86 (4 %)
Moves that took more than 50 seconds: 1 out of 86 (1%)

So one can see 75% of the moves were made in 10-20 seconds.
88% of the moves were made within 30 seconds
96% of the moves were made within 40 seconds
99% of the moves were made within 50 seconds.

This was a long game so we get good records of time taken for different
moves.

I hope now everyone is satisfied with the time it takes to make a move.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 19 Jan 2007 00:41:12
From: Sanny
Subject: GetClub will play in time from now on.

Ron wrote:
> 500 seconds and counting. (On 10 sec/mov.)
>
> I'm black.
>
> 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.cd ed 5.dc d4 6. Ne4 Nc6 7.Bf4 Nf6 8.Qd3
>
> Wow. Despite being out of book from its fourth move, the computer has
> yet to completely embarrass itself. This is surprising. I wouldn't say
> it's playing well, mind you - few strong players would choose the early
> pawn grab on c5.
>
> 8. ... Nxe4 9.Qxe4+ Be6 10.b4?
>
> You knew it was coming. The computer hangs a pawn for nada.
>
> 10. ... Nxb4 11.a3 Nc6 12. Nf3 Bxc5
>
> Black is clearly better.
>
> 13.Bd2? (the computer should be developing) h6?!
>
> Strictly not necessary, but I'm trying to keep things simple, counting
> on the computer to make errors. The point is that 13. ... 0-0 14.Ng5
> (which I think even Sannybot would see) wins my useful bishop.
>
> 14.Rg1 ??
>
> The funny thing is, against a strong opponent, this sort of move would
> make me think for a long time. Is it secretly a strong move, intending
> to attack my just-weakened kingside?
>
> But this isn't a plan most good computers would find (even if it was any
> good). There's no way in hell Sannybot finds such a plan. I don't even
> bother to calculate if my comings moves will hit home before a kingside
> pawn storm can hit me.
>
> 14. ... 0-0! 15. a4?
>
> Clearly the computer has no idea what to do here.
>
> 15. ... Bd5 16.Qd3 Nb4
>
> 16. Qg4 would have at least required calculation on my part. White's
> simply now allowing my pieces to take up aggressive squares with tempo.
>
> 17.Qf5 d3!
>
> And the computer's position falls apart. This is the move where it
> thinks for over 600 seconds before playing.
>
> 18.Rc1
>
> At least this is, quite possibly, the best move.
>
> 18. ... Nc2+ 19.Rxc2 dc 20.Qxc2 Rc8 21.Qd3 Qb6!
>
> Okay, this move was fun. Honestly, it's been a while since I've had any
> reason to play a move which required even this much calculation against
> Sannybot. Obviously, 22.Qxe4 Bxf2+ 23.Kd1 Qb1+ leads to mate, so ...
>
> 22. e4 ?
>
> A move only Sannybot could love. Although, of course, it's dead lost
> anyway, 22. e3 made infinitely more sense.
>
> 22 ... Bxf2+ 23.Ke2 Bc4 24.Qxc4 Rxc4 25.Rh1
>
> I suppose this is no worse than any other move.
>
> 25. ... Rxe4+ 26.Be3 Qxe3+ 27.Kd1 Rd8+ 28.Kc2+ Qc5+
>
> This looks like one of those positions where there's probably a quicker
> mate, but that would require me to think. Although since it's going to
> take over 90 seconds to figure out it's next move, maybe I should figure
> out the quickest mate ... just so I can go to bed at a reasonable hour.
>
> 29.Kb3 Rb4+
>
> and he's going to make me play it out another move?
>
> 30. Ka2 Qc2 0-1

Now some shuffling was made, lets see if the game plays in advertised
time. (Close the Chess Window. Restart game in a new browser so that
updated version of game is loaded in the browser.
or Click http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html )

10-20 sec / move Only in occasions it will go beyond 30 seconds.

I played 2 games with Beginner Level and found it is plaing faster than
earlier.

So you can easily goto higher levels to play stronger chess in time.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 20 Jan 2007 00:45:06
From: Ron
Subject: Re: GetClub will play in time from now on.

In article <[email protected] >,
"Sanny" <[email protected] > wrote:

> 10-20 sec / move Only in occasions it will go beyond 30 seconds.
>
> I played 2 games with Beginner Level and found it is plaing faster than
> earlier.

If it plays without ever going above 40 seconds a move on that level
I'll consider it.

And, what do you know ... it just did. It may have even never gotten to
30.

We could almost stop calling you a liar if you'd stop claiming that
level thought for 10 seconds a move.