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Date: 01 Nov 2006 23:54:36
From: John Evans
Subject: Chess Etiquette - Part 1
It might be just me, but are chess players forgetting some common social
skills at tournaments. It might just be me getting older or I'm just
noticing it now, but I've been seeing a lot of just poor behavior. Perhaps
it's just a reflection on society in general, but it gave me inspiration to
write an article on the subject. If you are interested please read:

http://growwithchess.com/2006/11/chess-etiquette-part-1.html

--
Thanks,
John
http://growwithchess.com/






 
Date: 02 Nov 2006 04:42:18
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Chess Etiquette - Part 1

Dave (from the UK) wrote:
> John Evans wrote:
> ...
> The thing that gets me is someone offering a draw in a clearly lost
> position. This game I (handle g8wrb) played on ICC this evening. At move
> 44, my opponent offers me a draw. I sent him a tell
>
> me: "Do you think it will be a draw? I am not sure"
> him/her: "I guess not"
> me: "no, me neither"
>
> After the game, I said I'll play him again, but would rather he did not
> offer a draw in a clearly lost position. I think it is an insult to the
> intelligence of your opponent to offer a draw in a lost position, but
> some insist on doing it.
>
> Another trick is for someone to want to abort a game if you are winning.
> The infamous 'jechess' on ICC did that to me once. He is a better player
> than me, but I suspect his rating (1929, best 2005) is somewhat inflated
> due to his methods of avoiding a loss.

Offered a draw by one in a losing position should elicit ONE response
from you: DECLINED.

There is no reason to become upset or otherwise stressed about it. My
opponent the other night played for 30 moves to win a K+Q vs. K+RP game
where my king was in the RP's corner, pawn on the 7th, and his king out
to pasture across the board. I offered a draw at the beginning of the
sequence, he refused, and played on in futility for another 30 moves.

He was a lawyer. Go figure.

If someone wants to abort the game to avoid a loss, I'm pretty ure
there are things you can do about that (ICC: noescape perhaps) to
avoid that.

FICS,ICC, Playchess - they are all the same: there are hundreds of
players whose rating are way over-inflated because they seek out
exclusively lower-rated competition. An 1800 player constanly playing
1600's and winning *can* theoretically improve his rating to 1900, but
he cannot improve his 'game' to that level. Typically, he get's mopped
up by true 1800's. Don't be that guy!

You can, most probably, safely play (read: expect reasonable chance of
winning a game against) opponents rated between 200-300 points higher
than you on ICC/Playchess and expect resonable results. That, in fact,
is what my formula is set to on ICC.

Most players in the aformentioned categories fear losing so much that
the devise ways to avoid a loss at all costs, instead of doing the work
to improve their game. Most of them are mousetrap/bullet/blitz junkies
who claim some brilliant knowledge of the opening (read: Ray Gordon)
and fear 'giving away' their secrets. Most would get crushed by any
legit rated player. Don't be that guy!

Want to improve? http://chess-training.blogspot.com



  
Date: 03 Nov 2006 18:21:35
From: bellatori
Subject: Re: Chess Etiquette - Part 1
Back in the 70's when I played a lot of OTB chess there was a strong player
(BCF 200+) who was notorious for withdrawing from tournaments if he lost
in the first round. In those days a withdrawal at this stage meant that
your score was annulled and therefore did not count against your
grading... the corollary was the poor sap who had put in all the effort
did not get the benefit of the win... fortunately grading is more
sophisticated now. the bottom line is that no matter what the majority do
there are always poor losers (and the occasional poor winner!) who just
piss off the rest of us. On the bright side, you can usually avoid them in
a repeat and its not your Karma that takes a beating.

AMICI SUMUS
Jo



 
Date: 02 Nov 2006 00:38:55
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Chess Etiquette - Part 1

Dave (from the UK) wrote:

> The thing that gets me is someone offering a draw in a clearly lost
> position.

> After the game, I said I'll play him again, but would rather he did not
> offer a draw in a clearly lost position. I think it is an insult to the
> intelligence of your opponent to offer a draw in a lost position, but
> some insist on doing it.


I agree with your attitude, however it should be noted
that there are more than a few players who will accept
such an offer if they are worried they will mess up the
win. I personally witnessed a couple of games where
two of the local masters were completely outplayed,
and in desperate attempts to salvage something, offered
draws to the same opponent, who instantly accepted
both times. In the same position (which I admit was
extremely unlikely to occur), I would have refused and
indeed, taken the offer as an insult to my intelligence.
But it worked! These guys took chances, got "busted",
and then, like Harry Houdini, escaped in one piece.
Such "successes" as these encourage this type of
player to continue this kind of behavior, since it can be
richly rewarded (with "free" rating points and possibly
even some extra prize money). The solution seems to
be, instead of rewarding this kind of behavior, instant
punishment (like say, a mincemeat pie in the face) to
"condition" them not to offer such draws. If they like
mincemeat, then perhaps a better choice would be a
rhubarb pie. If they like both mincemeat and rhubarb,
then try spraying lemon juice in their eyes while
stomping on thier toes. If none of these ideas work,
then I'm afraid you will just have to bite the bullet and
agree to a draw.

-- torture bot



 
Date: 02 Nov 2006 05:44:50
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: Chess Etiquette - Part 1
John Evans wrote:
> It might be just me, but are chess players forgetting some common social
> skills at tournaments. It might just be me getting older or I'm just
> noticing it now, but I've been seeing a lot of just poor behavior. Perhaps
> it's just a reflection on society in general, but it gave me inspiration to
> write an article on the subject. If you are interested please read:
>
> http://growwithchess.com/2006/11/chess-etiquette-part-1.html
>

The thing that gets me is someone offering a draw in a clearly lost
position. This game I (handle g8wrb) played on ICC this evening. At move
44, my opponent offers me a draw. I sent him a tell

me: "Do you think it will be a draw? I am not sure"
him/her: "I guess not"
me: "no, me neither"

After the game, I said I'll play him again, but would rather he did not
offer a draw in a clearly lost position. I think it is an insult to the
intelligence of your opponent to offer a draw in a lost position, but
some insist on doing it.

Another trick is for someone to want to abort a game if you are winning.
The infamous 'jechess' on ICC did that to me once. He is a better player
than me, but I suspect his rating (1929, best 2005) is somewhat inflated
due to his methods of avoiding a loss.

It's not one of my best games, since he tried hard to lose, rather than
me play well to win. But a win is a win, and they have been a bit too
rare recently - I lost nearly 200 points in about a week.


[Event "ICC 45 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2006.11.01"]
[Round "-"]
[White "dsreddy00"]
[Black "g8wrb"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ICCResult "White checkmated"]
[WhiteElo "1296"]
[BlackElo "1344"]
[Opening "French: advance, Nimzovich system"]
[ECO "C02"]
[NIC "FR.03"]
[Time "19:55:45"]
[GameType "ICCStandard"]
[TimeControl "2700+0"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Bb5 Bd7 6. Bxc6 bxc6 7. Nc3 cxd4 8.
Qxd4 Qb6 9. Qg4 Ne7 10. O-O c5 11. Rd1 c4 12. Be3 Qxb2 13. Bd4 Qxc2 14. Rab1
Qg6 15. Qf4 Nf5 16. Bxa7 Rxa7 17. Rb8+ Ke7 18. Nh4 Nxh4 19. Qxh4+ f6 20. Qd4
Rc7 21. Qb6 Rc8 22. Qd6+ Ke8 23. Rxc8+ Bxc8 24. Qc6+ Kd8 25. Nb5 Qe8 26.
Qb6+ Ke7 27. Qc7+ Qd7 28. Qc5+ Kf7 29. Nd6+ Bxd6 30. exd6 Rd8 31. Ra1 Qxd6
32. Qa7+ Qd7 33. Qa8 Qb7 34. Qxb7+ Bxb7 35. a4 Rc8 36. Kf1 c3 37. Ke1 d4 38.
a5 Ba6 39. Kd1 c2+ 40. Kd2 d3 41. f3 Ke7 42. g4 Kd6 43. h4 Ke5 44. g5 Kf4
45. gxf6 gxf6 46. h5 Kxf3 47. Rf1+ Kg4 48. Rxf6 Rc6 49. Rf7 c1=Q#
{White checkmated}
0-1



--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)


  
Date: 02 Nov 2006 09:24:25
From: Ange1o DePa1ma
Subject: Re: Chess Etiquette - Part 1
"Dave (from the UK)" <[email protected] >
wrote in message news:[email protected]
> John Evans wrote:
>> It might be just me, but are chess players forgetting some common social
>> skills at tournaments. It might just be me getting older or I'm just
>> noticing it now, but I've been seeing a lot of just poor behavior.
>> Perhaps it's just a reflection on society in general, but it gave me
>> inspiration to write an article on the subject. If you are interested
>> please read:
>>
>> http://growwithchess.com/2006/11/chess-etiquette-part-1.html
>>
>
> The thing that gets me is someone offering a draw in a clearly lost
> position. This game I (handle g8wrb) played on ICC this evening. At move
> 44, my opponent offers me a draw. I sent him a tell
>
> me: "Do you think it will be a draw? I am not sure"
> him/her: "I guess not"
> me: "no, me neither"
>
> After the game, I said I'll play him again, but would rather he did not
> offer a draw in a clearly lost position. I think it is an insult to the
> intelligence of your opponent to offer a draw in a lost position, but some
> insist on doing it.
>
> Another trick is for someone to want to abort a game if you are winning.
> The infamous 'jechess' on ICC did that to me once. He is a better player
> than me, but I suspect his rating (1929, best 2005) is somewhat inflated
> due to his methods of avoiding a loss.

I've played 50,000 blitz games on ICC, mostly late at night. I'd estimate
that no more than a couple of hundred opponents have ever offered a draw in
a dead lost position. When it's happened I think it's been more of a joke
than serious nastiness. As with usenet trolls, the best policy is to ignore
them. They always resign on the next move or so. Over all my games, perhaps
10 opponents have "bugged" me for a draw move after move in lost positions.
I ignore them, too.

Disconnecting in a lost position is a much more serious problem. Currently,
ICC has a "noescape" setting which forfeits players who disconnect for any
reason during a game. Unfortunately -- and quite stupidly, if you ask me --
both players must check this option for it to take effect. Whenever this
happens to me, and it does reasonably often (I'm guessing 0.5-1% of my
games), I immediately do a request-win Joeschmoe [explanation]. The game is
always adjudicated in my favor.

The biggest problem on ICC is cheaters. When I'm on a roll, close to or
above a 2000 rating in blitz, I am playing very very well. When I'm in this
frame of mind and a 1847 player beats me to a pulp 10 games in a row, he is
cheating. I don't give a crap what ICC says. I've played in hundreds of
mini-matches on the server where this has happened -- my opponent doesn't
mis a single tactic, hardly uses any time, and just wins game after game
after game. These guys are so stupid they don't even throw me a game once in
a while to deflect suspicion.

You don't need to use a computer for *every* move to cheat, by the way.

Another technique, which I assume is even more common than computer
cheating, is to have a higher-rated buddy play the game for you. Considering
the fact that there are THOUSANDS of players all over the world who can beat
me close to 100% of the time, such a person is not that hard to find.

Overall, though, the etiquette on ICC is very, very good indeed.




  
Date: 02 Nov 2006 06:59:26
From: Ron
Subject: Re: Chess Etiquette - Part 1
In article <[email protected] >,
"Dave (from the UK)"
<[email protected] > wrote:

> The thing that gets me is someone offering a draw in a clearly lost
> position. This game I (handle g8wrb) played on ICC this evening. At move
> 44, my opponent offers me a draw. I sent him a tell
>
> me: "Do you think it will be a draw? I am not sure"
> him/her: "I guess not"
> me: "no, me neither"

I've had people ask to abort when they were in clearly losing positions.
My standard response is, "I think you misspelled 'resign.'"

I've also responded with "Ha" to some particularly silly draw offers -
although most of the time I just ignore them.

Just as obnoxious are the people who berate you to accept a draw in a
position that's probably drawn.

Over all, though, these things are pretty rare. The vast majority of the
people I play slow games against are perfectly polite about them.

(Although I have found, online, much better sportsmanship at slower time
controls than at faster ones).

-Ron


   
Date: 02 Nov 2006 13:39:54
From: Thomas T. Veldhouse
Subject: Re: Chess Etiquette - Part 1
In rec.games.chess.computer Ron <[email protected] > wrote:
> (Although I have found, online, much better sportsmanship at slower time
> controls than at faster ones).
>

I don't play blitz games [nothing less than 20 0 in fact], but I have noticed
some unsportsman like activity there as well. I have been in a clearly
winning position and my opponent, rather than resign ... or move, will simply
sit there until the time runs out, which can be a 10 or 15 minute wait in some
cases. It has happened several times.

I have also had opponents feign disconnects [apparently pull the connection]
at the most opportune time of CLEARLY lost. Usually, this is resolved via
adjudication as these opponents never return.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0




   
Date: 02 Nov 2006 08:23:06
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: Chess Etiquette - Part 1
Ron wrote:

> I've had people ask to abort when they were in clearly losing positions.
> My standard response is, "I think you misspelled 'resign.'"

Nice one, I will have to remember that one.

> I've also responded with "Ha" to some particularly silly draw offers -
> although most of the time I just ignore them.

I usually do but today I decided to ask for his opinion whether it was a
draw.

> Just as obnoxious are the people who berate you to accept a draw in a
> position that's probably drawn.

I've not had that, but only today I had someone just ignore my requests
for a draw in a position that was *certainly* drawn. We both had 2 pawns
and we both had a bishop. But the bishops were on opposite colours and
there was no way a pawn could be advanced without loss. Perhaps my
opponent did not realise it was a certain draw, but he should have done.

The other one I have had is where I have offered a draw, but it been
declined. Then my opponent blunders and then offers me a draw.

> Over all, though, these things are pretty rare. The vast majority of the
> people I play slow games against are perfectly polite about them.

Yes, agreed. In fact, I once had an opponent offer a draw after I'd
blundered a piece. He said he did not want to win by a blunder. It must
have cost him quite a few points, as he was rated significantly higher
than me. I've played him about 6 times, and he has always won, apart
from this occasion when he offered a draw after my blunder.

> (Although I have found, online, much better sportsmanship at slower time
> controls than at faster ones).

I don't play fast time-constants much, but I think you are right based
on my limited experience of blitz.

I tend to do what someone told me is an 'integrity check'. If someone
has a lot of stored games where they have disconnected, then I will not
bother playing them.

I once has someone lose a game against me when he disconnected in a
clearly losing position on ICC. Although I have noescape on, he did not,
so I was surprised he lost. The admins told me there is a 'disconnectors
list' where people get put if they regularly disconnect.
> -Ron


--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)


 
Date: 01 Nov 2006 18:09:56
From: Inconnux
Subject: Re: Chess Etiquette - Part 1

John Evans wrote:
> It might be just me, but are chess players forgetting some common social
> skills at tournaments. It might just be me getting older or I'm just
> noticing it now, but I've been seeing a lot of just poor behavior. Perhaps
> it's just a reflection on society in general, but it gave me inspiration to
> write an article on the subject. If you are interested please read:
>
> http://growwithchess.com/2006/11/chess-etiquette-part-1.html
>
> --
> Thanks,
> John
> http://growwithchess.com/

My experience at the whole ONE tourny that ive been in is actually
been quite the opposite. Most people were very friendly, even to a
complete patzer like me. (although everyones first question when they
started talking was 'whats your rating??')

We did have one guy whos cell phone went off twice during the day
When it did most people just started chuckling.

I found that chess players tend to be far more polite than in other
social activities that ive been involved in...



  
Date: 02 Nov 2006 02:32:52
From: John Evans
Subject: Re: Chess Etiquette - Part 1
This is absolutely not intended to describe the majority of players. I think
most players are great chess citizens, but there are a few that this topic
is extremely relevent to.

Keep playing tournaments and I'm sure you will see them

--
Thanks,
John
http://growwithchess.com/
"Inconnux" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> John Evans wrote:
>> It might be just me, but are chess players forgetting some common social
>> skills at tournaments. It might just be me getting older or I'm just
>> noticing it now, but I've been seeing a lot of just poor behavior.
>> Perhaps
>> it's just a reflection on society in general, but it gave me inspiration
>> to
>> write an article on the subject. If you are interested please read:
>>
>> http://growwithchess.com/2006/11/chess-etiquette-part-1.html
>>
>> --
>> Thanks,
>> John
>> http://growwithchess.com/
>
> My experience at the whole ONE tourny that ive been in is actually
> been quite the opposite. Most people were very friendly, even to a
> complete patzer like me. (although everyones first question when they
> started talking was 'whats your rating??')
>
> We did have one guy whos cell phone went off twice during the day
> When it did most people just started chuckling.
>
> I found that chess players tend to be far more polite than in other
> social activities that ive been involved in...
>




   
Date: 02 Nov 2006 03:56:19
From:
Subject: Re: Chess Etiquette - Part 1
"John Evans" <[email protected] > wrote:
> This is absolutely not intended to describe the majority of players. I
> think most players are great chess citizens, but there are a few that
> this topic is extremely relevent to.
>
> Keep playing tournaments and I'm sure you will see them

Golf is pretty much the same, although I must admit to having gotten
seriously ticked off on one occasion. Our foursome had caught up the
foursome ahead of us on the tee. The last guy to shoot would take a few
practice swings, go back and sight over his ball toward the dogleg, then
take a few practice swings, go back and sight over his ball again. Finally,
I muttered, "Just hit the fuckin' ball!" He glared at me and made a mighty
swing, slicing his ball into the next fairway. Of course, it was my fault.
;-D

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !
~Semper Fi~