Main
Date: 02 Jan 2008 10:17:17
From: Chess Hack
Subject: Is there any real need for me to upgrade from recently purchased
I am a long time Chessmaster user, but for some reason my copy of CM9
freezes up on my computer with TheKing.exe eating up 100% CPU time!
This prompted me to look into Fritz as an alternative since my level
of play is not really novice or beginner, and yet I am not really a
great player either. I don't even know my rating! At any rate, I
found a copy of Fritz 8 Deluxe at a local GameStop store for $10 and
bought it.

All I can say is wow! This program is light years ahead of CM9 (or
any previous versions) in terms of sophistication and tools to help me
get actually better at chess. The CM line had good tools also, but as
a professional programmer I feel pretty comfortable with Fritz's
interface, even as clunky as it is at times.

I see that the program is up to version 11 now, but the reviews seem
spotty, claiming little if any real value to upgrading from an
interface standpoint. My computer is a fairly modern one with an AMD
Sempron 64FX 3100+ processor with 1.5 GB memory, an ATI 1300X Pro
video card and a Soundblaster xTreme gamer sound card. I like what I
see with Fritz and I feel like I would never buy another CM product
for various reasons, but is there any compelling reason for a guy at
my level to upgrade past Fritz 8 at this point?

Thanks in advance.




 
Date: 04 Jan 2008 06:53:30
From: Duncan Smith
Subject: Re: Is there any real need for me to upgrade from recently purchased

>
> Even if they are fixed, you'll find new bugs of equal stupidity and
> annoyance. ChessBase seems to have near-zero interest in fixing
> bugs. It's an attitude that I just can't understand -- maybe it's
> because they have serious competitors in terms of engine strength but
> there are no Elo ratings for quality of user interface.

Oh, that's a shame. Maybe I wont bother reporting it - nothing lets a
good product down so massively as a little lack of attention to detail
on the UI. Do you know of another product with a more reliable
interface that conforms to proper Windows standards? I'd seriously
consider switching when I next choose to upgrade. I'm a novice not a
grandmaster so the ability to beat Kasparov is of little importance to
me right now.

Thanks,

Duncan


  
Date: 04 Jan 2008 15:22:49
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Is there any real need for me to upgrade from recently purchased
Duncan Smith <[email protected] > wrote:
> Do you know of another product with a more reliable interface that
> conforms to proper Windows standards?

ChessBase and Chessmaster both have odd interfaces so I think you'll
have to look at the free alternatives.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Aquatic Revolting Tool (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a screwdriver but it'll turn your
stomach and it lives in the sea!


 
Date: 03 Jan 2008 09:59:46
From: Duncan Smith
Subject: Re: Is there any real need for me to upgrade from recently purchased

>
> All I can say is wow! This program is light years ahead of CM9 (or
> any previous versions) in terms of sophistication and tools to help me
> get actually better at chess. The CM line had good tools also, but as
> a professional programmer I feel pretty comfortable with Fritz's
> interface, even as clunky as it is at times.
>

I can't speak for v8, but I have v9 which I bought a few years back
and only recently started using on a regular basis. Comparing it to
v11 (out of interest) I didn't see any reason to upgrade unless you
need a stronger engine (unlikely?), or you're into the drop-down
robotic 3d eye candy (No thanks!).

I know what you mean about the clunky interface though. On the whole,
it's a well written piece of software, but it is let down by some
serious bugs/non-standard UI guidelines.

These range from minor accelerometer mis-matches on menus, to annoying
bugs like not saving settings, or using different handicap values for
'Patzer' depending upon the button you happened to have clicked before-
hand.

I was going to ask Chessbase whether these have been patched, if
they're fixed in a later version then it could be worth an upgrade -
don't think we should have to pay the full price again though...

Regards,

Duncan


  
Date: 04 Jan 2008 10:50:21
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Is there any real need for me to upgrade from recently purchased
Duncan Smith <[email protected] > wrote:
> I was going to ask Chessbase whether these have been patched
> if they're fixed in a later version then it could be worth an
> upgrade -

Even if they are fixed, you'll find new bugs of equal stupidity and
annoyance. ChessBase seems to have near-zero interest in fixing
bugs. It's an attitude that I just can't understand -- maybe it's
because they have serious competitors in terms of engine strength but
there are no Elo ratings for quality of user interface. Well,
actually, it's most likely because ChessBase are more interested in
making money than producing a really high-quality product.

> don't think we should have to pay the full price again though...

Aw but how is ChessBase going to pay the programmers of the world's
flashiest and most pointless graphics if you don't pay the full price
again and again?


Dave.

--
David Richerby Technicolor Evil Hi-Fi (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a music system but it's genuinely evil
and in realistic colour!


 
Date: 03 Jan 2008 05:02:10
From: Chess Hack
Subject: Re: Is there any real need for me to upgrade from recently purchased
On Jan 2, 11:49 pm, Tony M <[email protected] > wrote:

> Are you running Vista? From what I've read previously on this
> newsgroup, CM9K doesn't work under Vista.

Oh, sorry -- I'm running XP Home and will be until this machine dies
and then it is on to Linux for me. I got playing around with CM9 a
bit last night and I shut down my firewall, virus and spyware scanners
and (patiently) switched the board over to 2D and it played "alright"
in that way. I'm gonna play more with it tonight to see if screen
resolutions (mine:1280x1024 32bit color) to see if that helps more.
Still, I like Fritz a lot so far, although it is tough to navigate.
I'm glad I'm an IT guy and can wade through it, but I wonder how the
average Joe deals with it. That would explain the occasional "bad
review" of Fritz I think.


 
Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Is there any real need for me to upgrade from recently purchased


  
Date: 03 Jan 2008 12:36:47
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Is there any real need for me to upgrade from recently purchased
tin Brown <

 
Date:
From: Martin Brown
Subject: Re: Is there any real need for me to upgrade from recently purchased


  
Date: 03 Jan 2008 17:54:24
From: Tony M
Subject: Re: Is there any real need for me to upgrade from recently purchased Fritz 8 Deluxe?
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 00:48:50 -0800 (PST), tin Brown
<


  
Date: 03 Jan 2008 11:11:15
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: Is there any real need for me to upgrade from recently purchased
tin Brown <

 
Date: 03 Jan 2008 04:49:00
From: Tony M
Subject: Re: Is there any real need for me to upgrade from recently purchased Fritz 8 Deluxe?
On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:17:17 -0800 (PST), Chess Hack
<[email protected] > wrote:

>I am a long time Chessmaster user, but for some reason my copy of CM9
>freezes up on my computer with TheKing.exe eating up 100% CPU time!
>This prompted me to look into Fritz as an alternative since my level
>of play is not really novice or beginner, and yet I am not really a
>great player either. I don't even know my rating! At any rate, I
>found a copy of Fritz 8 Deluxe at a local GameStop store for $10 and
>bought it.
>
>All I can say is wow! This program is light years ahead of CM9 (or
>any previous versions) in terms of sophistication and tools to help me
>get actually better at chess. The CM line had good tools also, but as
>a professional programmer I feel pretty comfortable with Fritz's
>interface, even as clunky as it is at times.
>
>I see that the program is up to version 11 now, but the reviews seem
>spotty, claiming little if any real value to upgrading from an
>interface standpoint. My computer is a fairly modern one with an AMD
>Sempron 64FX 3100+ processor with 1.5 GB memory, an ATI 1300X Pro
>video card and a Soundblaster xTreme gamer sound card. I like what I
>see with Fritz and I feel like I would never buy another CM product
>for various reasons, but is there any compelling reason for a guy at
>my level to upgrade past Fritz 8 at this point?
>
>Thanks in advance.

Unless you're concerned with sheer playing strength, or want to
upgrade your Playchess subscription, there's probably not a really
compelling reason to upgrade. The GUI is slightly updated, but not
enough to justify a $50 purchase, IMO. You got Fritz at a pretty
decent price.

Are you running Vista? From what I've read previously on this
newsgroup, CM9K doesn't work under Vista.

Tony


 
Date: 02 Jan 2008 19:04:11
From: Richard
Subject: Re: Is there any real need for me to upgrade from recently purchased
Chess Hack wrote:
> I am a long time Chessmaster user, but for some reason my copy of CM9
etc
>
> Thanks in advance.



I still like my copy of Fritz 4 to be honest.