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Main
Date: 06 Oct 2008 20:34:05
From: samsloan
Subject: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
Take a look at:
http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/10/spice-cup.html
Through her ubiquitous "anonymous" posters, Susan Polgar is attacking
the New York Times, demanding that its reporter be fired.
He had better watch out. Next thing, Susan Polgar will sue his ass,
claiming that he is persecuting her because she is a woman and of
foreign descent.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 14 Oct 2008 08:45:08
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
On Oct 14, 11:19=A0am, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> The comparison of what? When a subject begins as the strongest tournament
> *category*, then this means the average of the players' ratings which
> determine the tournament level.
>
> Here we have the Sloan switching topics to individual ratings of /some/ o=
f
> the players - and a little below he switches yet again to not-ratings, bu=
t
> world positions - either current ones or
>
> =A0 =A0 "...at some time in the past".
>
> I can only assume that the NY Times are reading the Sloan somewhere and n=
ot
> the Polgar everywhere else, or in fact, asking USCF people any questions
> about what they report - or contain anyone with knowledge of what a
> tournament is on their staff.
>
> In which case why not compare the SPICE event with Lone Pine or even
> Cambridge Springs since what is being compared continuously shifts even t=
o
> "...some time in the past", and now its about 'world class players' not
> category of tournament.
>
> Naturally, Sam Sloan does not think he is attacking anything here, except
> the literal truth - its other people who are doing the attacking, the peo=
ple
> who merely say what a Category rating is - and to which Sam Sloan is
> entirely wrong.
>
> The Sloan has stated that he is not obsessed by Susan Polgar, despite the
> evidence of his 10,00 posts about her - I think its therfore equitable to
> grant him that he is not obssessed with being correct either.
>
> The very strange thing here is that he submitted his 'argument' to a just=
ice
> in order that that the person should compare what he says with what who h=
e
> accuses says.
>
> Phil Innes
The press release issued by Texas Tech University stated:
"Texas Tech University=92s Susan Polgar Institute for Chess Excellence
announced Thursday it has assembled the strongest field of chess
grandmasters in U.S. round-robin history for its 2008 SPICE Cup
International Invitational Tournament."
This statement was not true as there have been at least four
tournaments stronger than that.
Now, Susan Polgar and Phil Innes are relentlessly attacking the New
York Times for making this true statement.
Probably next time the New York Times and other major media will
simply no longer report on any event involving Susan Polgar.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 13 Oct 2008 16:32:08
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
On Oct 13, 6:51 pm, Mike Murray <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:22:44 -0400, "Chess One" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Name 5-yr peak 1-1-1978
> > Spassky: 2680 2630
> > Larsen: ----- 2620
> > Portisch: ----- 2630
> > Unzicker: 2590 2525
> > Petrosian: 2680 2620
> > Najdorf: 2635 2525
> > Ivkov: 2570 2515
> > Donner: 2500 2490
> >**Therefore, even with these retro-ratings, and even with some players
> >assessed at their peak, the last 3 players seriously reduce the Category
> >rating to less tha XV, - these 8 players average 2,569 in '78 - and even
> >given these means the current SPICE XV stands as being correct as highest.
>
> So what does "highest" mean?
>
> The number of players in the rating pool is much larger now than in
> 1978, which makes it almost certain that many more players will be
> rated above 2600 (or "x"). Unless the distribution changed in the 20
> intervening years, this would be true even the current crop of GMs
> played at a *lower* level of absolute strength than the GMs of 1978.
>
> The fact is the competitors at Santa Monica represented a much greater
> sampling of truly world-class players than did those in this year's
> Spice Cup.
>
> So, the often repeated claim of "highest rated" may be true (but
> slightly misleading in implication), but the single claim of
> "strongest" cannot be sustained.
The comparison is more extreme than that.
The higest rated player in the SPICE Cup was Harikrishna, rated 2659.
Second highest was Onischuk, rated 2644.
Harikrishna is ranked number 62 in the world. Onischuk is ranked
number 82 in the world.
None of the other players in the SPICE Cup were in the top 100 in the
world.
http://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men
By comparison, ALL of the players in both the First and the Second
Piatigorsky Cup either were in the top 20 in the world or had been in
the top 20 in the world at some time in the past.
In short, ALL of the players in either of the two Piatagorsky Cups
were or had been "World Class" players. NONE of the players in the
SPICE Cup have ever been World Class players.
None of this should distract from the fact that Susan Polgar has
accomplished a great and beneficial thing by putting together this
tournament. However, she ruins it by attacking the New York Times
after the Times correctly pointed out that Zsuzsa's tournament was NOT
the strongest tournament ever played in the USA.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 14 Oct 2008 11:19:14
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
"samsloan" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:9f5998fc-b47d-418a-bb8e-5e5d89bcdf69@u65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 13, 6:51 pm, Mike Murray <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:22:44 -0400, "Chess One" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Name 5-yr peak 1-1-1978
>> > Spassky: 2680 2630
>> > Larsen: ----- 2620
>> > Portisch: ----- 2630
>> > Unzicker: 2590 2525
>> > Petrosian: 2680 2620
>> > Najdorf: 2635 2525
>> > Ivkov: 2570 2515
>> > Donner: 2500 2490
>> >**Therefore, even with these retro-ratings, and even with some players
>> >assessed at their peak, the last 3 players seriously reduce the Category
>> >rating to less tha XV, - these 8 players average 2,569 in '78 - and
>> >even
>> >given these means the current SPICE XV stands as being correct as
>> >highest.
>>
>> So what does "highest" mean?
>>
>> The number of players in the rating pool is much larger now than in
>> 1978, which makes it almost certain that many more players will be
>> rated above 2600 (or "x"). Unless the distribution changed in the 20
>> intervening years, this would be true even the current crop of GMs
>> played at a *lower* level of absolute strength than the GMs of 1978.
>>
>> The fact is the competitors at Santa Monica represented a much greater
>> sampling of truly world-class players than did those in this year's
>> Spice Cup.
>>
>> So, the often repeated claim of "highest rated" may be true (but
>> slightly misleading in implication), but the single claim of
>> "strongest" cannot be sustained.
>
> The comparison is more extreme than that.
The comparison of what? When a subject begins as the strongest tournament
*category*, then this means the average of the players' ratings which
determine the tournament level.
Here we have the Sloan switching topics to individual ratings of /some/ of
the players - and a little below he switches yet again to not-ratings, but
world positions - either current ones or
"...at some time in the past".
I can only assume that the NY Times are reading the Sloan somewhere and not
the Polgar everywhere else, or in fact, asking USCF people any questions
about what they report - or contain anyone with knowledge of what a
tournament is on their staff.
In which case why not compare the SPICE event with Lone Pine or even
Cambridge Springs since what is being compared continuously shifts even to
"...some time in the past", and now its about 'world class players' not
category of tournament.
Naturally, Sam Sloan does not think he is attacking anything here, except
the literal truth - its other people who are doing the attacking, the people
who merely say what a Category rating is - and to which Sam Sloan is
entirely wrong.
The Sloan has stated that he is not obsessed by Susan Polgar, despite the
evidence of his 10,00 posts about her - I think its therfore equitable to
grant him that he is not obssessed with being correct either.
The very strange thing here is that he submitted his 'argument' to a justice
in order that that the person should compare what he says with what who he
accuses says.
Phil Innes
> The higest rated player in the SPICE Cup was Harikrishna, rated 2659.
> Second highest was Onischuk, rated 2644.
>
> Harikrishna is ranked number 62 in the world. Onischuk is ranked
> number 82 in the world.
>
> None of the other players in the SPICE Cup were in the top 100 in the
> world.
>
> http://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men
>
> By comparison, ALL of the players in both the First and the Second
> Piatigorsky Cup either were in the top 20 in the world or had been in
> the top 20 in the world at some time in the past.
>
> In short, ALL of the players in either of the two Piatagorsky Cups
> were or had been "World Class" players. NONE of the players in the
> SPICE Cup have ever been World Class players.
>
> None of this should distract from the fact that Susan Polgar has
> accomplished a great and beneficial thing by putting together this
> tournament. However, she ruins it by attacking the New York Times
> after the Times correctly pointed out that Zsuzsa's tournament was NOT
> the strongest tournament ever played in the USA.
>
> Sam Sloan
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Date: 13 Oct 2008 15:29:54
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
On Oct 13, 5:57=A0pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "samsloan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:5c7cbb11-be2c-4c5c-b200-7a207a2d67ca@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 13, 4:33 pm, Rob <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > This is so useless. You would find a hair to split on Yule Brynner's
> > head.
>
> That is absolutely true, but remember that it was Susan Polgar, whom
> you generally support, who started this debate by repeatedly attacking
> the New York Times reporter over this issue.
>
> **Attacking, says Sloan, by stating that they were wrong, as wrong as USC=
F,
> Sloan - get it? Do you get that 10,000 posts about Susan Polgar equals [f=
or
> better or worse] an obsession on your part? And why would a justice not w=
ish
> to know this, whether you have a ligitmate argument or the usual trash?
>
> Phil Innes
The New York Times was not wrong. The New York Times was correct. A
press release by Texas Tech University stated that the SPICE Cup held
in Lubbock Texas was the strongest chess tournament ever in the
history of the United States.
That was not true. There have been at least four tournaments that were
stronger.
Susan Polgar would do well to leave this issue alone. Every time she
brings it up, she goes that much deeper in the hole.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 13 Oct 2008 13:37:04
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
On Oct 13, 4:33=A0pm, Rob <[email protected] > wrote:
> This is so useless. You would find a hair to split on Yule Brynner's
> head.
That is absolutely true, but remember that it was Susan Polgar, whom
you generally support, who started this debate by repeatedly attacking
the New York Times reporter over this issue.
Sam Sloan
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Date: 13 Oct 2008 17:57:15
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
"samsloan" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:5c7cbb11-be2c-4c5c-b200-7a207a2d67ca@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 13, 4:33 pm, Rob <[email protected] > wrote:
> This is so useless. You would find a hair to split on Yule Brynner's
> head.
That is absolutely true, but remember that it was Susan Polgar, whom
you generally support, who started this debate by repeatedly attacking
the New York Times reporter over this issue.
**Attacking, says Sloan, by stating that they were wrong, as wrong as USCF,
Sloan - get it? Do you get that 10,000 posts about Susan Polgar equals [for
better or worse] an obsession on your part? And why would a justice not wish
to know this, whether you have a ligitmate argument or the usual trash?
Phil Innes
Sam Sloan
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Date: 13 Oct 2008 13:33:32
From: Rob
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
This is so useless. You would find a hair to split on Yule Brynner's
head.
On Oct 7, 1:52=A0pm, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 7, 2:44=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 7, 2:30=A0pm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 7, 2:17=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 7, 6:34=A0am, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 6, 11:34=A0pm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Take a look at:http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/10/spice-cu=
p.html
>
> > > > > > Through her ubiquitous "anonymous" posters, Susan Polgar is att=
acking
> > > > > > the New York Times, demanding that its reporter be fired.
>
> > > > > > He had better watch out. Next thing, Susan Polgar will sue his =
ass,
> > > > > > claiming that he is persecuting her because she is a woman and =
of
> > > > > > foreign descent.
>
> > > > > > Sam Sloan
>
> > > > > Also, take a look athttp://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtop=
ic.php?f=3D4&t=3D1526
>
> > > > > Under the header "Questionable journalism?"
> > > > > Susan Polgar and Gregory Alexander are attacking the New York Tim=
es
> > > > > for "nit-picking".
>
> > > > > Sam Sloan
>
> > > > =A0 What is the NY Times reporter's source for his statement that "=
Texas
> > > > Tech said the Spice Cup was the strongest invitational tournament t=
o
> > > > be held in the United States"? Who at Texas Tech said this, when,
> > > > where? Did any such statement actually appear anywhere under Texas
> > > > Tech auspices?
> > > > =A0 It does not appear that Polgar herself has issued any such
> > > > statement; rather, she said "the 2008 SPICE Cup [will be] the highe=
st
> > > > rated 10 person International RR event in U.S. history." That's not=
at
> > > > all the same thing as McClain reports.
>
> > > The New York Times quoted a press release from Texas Tech that has
> > > been on the USCF website since July 10, 2008. If this was wrong Susan
> > > had an obligation as a USCF Board member and as director of the SPICE
> > > Program to correct it:
>
> > >http://main.uschess.org/content/view/8558/319/
>
> > =A0 Couldn't get that link to work.
>
> > > 2008 SPICE Cup to Break Records =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Print =A0 =A0 =A0=
=A0 =A0 E-mail
> > > By Cory Chandler
> > > July 12, 2008
> > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > > DATE: July 10, 2008
> > > CONTACT: Cory Chandler, [email protected]
> > > (806) 742-2136
>
> > > 2008 SPICE Cup is the Highest Rated 10-player International Round-
> > > Robin in U.S. History
>
> > > Texas Tech University=92s Susan Polgar Institute for Chess Excellence
> > > announced Thursday it has assembled the strongest field of chess
> > > grandmasters in U.S. round-robin history for its 2008 SPICE Cup
> > > International Invitational Tournament.
>
> > =A0 =A0Hmmm, I see. Thank you. The headline is accurate, but the senten=
ce
> > following is highly questionable.
>
> Right, it says:
>
> Texas Tech University=92s Susan Polgar Institute for Chess Excellence
> announced Thursday it has assembled the strongest field of chess
> grandmasters in U.S. round-robin history.
>
> US history starts in 1789. The USCF rating system started in 1950 and
> the FIDE rating system started in 1970.
>
> If the announcement said that it was "the highest rated tournament
> under the FIDE rating system since 1970" few would have disputed it.
>
> Sam Sloan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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Date: 13 Oct 2008 02:23:36
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
Sorry, either I made a mistake or Susan was in the middle of changing
her website and her "false claims" did not appear momentarily.
Susan often changes her website. She has changed the picture of
herself in the upper right corner several times in the last few days
after one reader said that her picture made her appear old, worn out
and tired.
The following false claims have reappeared:
=E2=99=A6 Winner of 4 Women=E2=80=99s World Championships (Under 16, Blitz,=
Rapid, and
Classical)
=E2=99=A6 The only World Champion in history to win the triple-crown (Blitz=
,
Rapid and Classical World Championships)
This is new. This is the first time she has explained that "Winner of
4 Women=E2=80=99s World Championships" means "Under 16, Blitz, Rapid, and
Classical". I do not know of anyone who agrees with her that winning
the "Under-16" championship constitutes winning Women=E2=80=99s World
Championships. Also, the "Blitz, Rapid" events were not official FIDE
events. These were events her father organized in Budapest. The Real
World Champion, Xie Jun, did not play and the main competition was her
own sisters, Judit and Sophia.
Sam Sloan
On Oct 13, 5:08=C2=A0am, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 7, 8:51=C2=A0am, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > ButPolgar'spuffery comes along with her claim that she won the
> > Woman'sWorldChampionship four times, when she did not, that she won
> > the "Triple Crown of Chess" when there is no such title and that she
> > is the number onerankedwoman in the USA when she is not.
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> I believe, but I am not sure, that Polgar has made some changes in the
> last few days to the claims that she has been making about herself onhttp=
://susanpolgar.blogspot.com
>
> She no longer claims to have won the Woman's World Championship four
> times or to have won the "Triple Crown" in chess.
>
> She still has a lot of false claims posted on her blog. For example:
>
> =E2=99=A6 #1 ranked woman chess player in the world at the age of 15 (rem=
ain
> in the top 3 in the world for 23 straight years)
> =E2=99=A6 Currently ranked #1 in the United States
> =E2=99=A6 Award-winning and best-selling chess author in numerous languag=
es
> =E2=99=A6 First ever recipient of the =E2=80=9CChess Educator of the Year=
=E2=80=9D award
> (2003)
>
> Susan has never been ranked number one in the world on the official
> FIDE rating list. However, she was tied with Maya Chiburdanidze with a
> rating of 2430 on a 1985 FIDE Rating list. Since 1992 she had been
> ranked in the top three in only a few of the official rating lists.
>
> Susan is not ranked number one in the US now. The number one ranking
> has been held by either Irina Krush or Anna Zatonskih for the last
> several years. If Susan came back and played I doubt that she could
> beat either one of them now, due to her age and inactivity. Remember
> that the last time Susan played in an open rated tournament was the
> 2005 US Amateur Team East and there her performance rating for the
> tournament was 2173. I do not believe that either Anna Zatonskih or
> Irina Krush have ever had such a poor result. Here are the official
> current top rankings:
>
> 1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Zatonskih, Anna (12873912) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0NY =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0USA =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2498
> 2 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Krush, Irina (12543137) NY =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0USA=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2493
>
> As far as I know, Susan's books are only published in English. None of
> them have received awards, other than the awards she gives herself.
>
> I have never heard of the title of =C2=A0=E2=80=9CChess Educator of the Y=
ear=E2=80=9D. This
> sounds like something that Truong awarded her.
>
> By claiming to have achieved things that she has not actually
> achieved, Susan Polgar is cheating those who have worked hard to
> actually achieve those things. For example, Susan is right now
> cheating Anna Zatonskih, who is a very active player, of the
> recognition Anna has earned and deserves for being both the US Woman's
> Champion and currently the highest ranked player on the official list.
>
> Sam Sloan
|
| | |
Date: 13 Oct 2008 17:34:41
From: =?utf-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_R.?=
Subject: AW: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
samsloan wrote:
> Sorry, either I made a mistake or Susan was in the middle of changing
> her website and her "false claims" did not appear momentarily.
>
> Susan often changes her website. She has changed the picture of
> herself in the upper right corner several times in the last few days
> after one reader said that her picture made her appear old, worn out
> and tired.
>
> The following false claims have reappeared:
>
> ♦ Winner of 4 Women’s World Championships (Under 16, Blitz, Rapid, and
> Classical)
> ♦ The only World Champion in history to win the triple-crown (Blitz,
> Rapid and Classical World Championships)
>
> This is new. This is the first time she has explained that "Winner of
> 4 Women’s World Championships" means "Under 16, Blitz, Rapid, and
> Classical". I do not know of anyone who agrees with her that winning
> the "Under-16" championship constitutes winning Women’s World
> Championships. Also, the "Blitz, Rapid" events were not official FIDE
> events. These were events her father organized in Budapest. The Real
> World Champion, Xie Jun, did not play and the main competition was her
> own sisters, Judit and Sophia.
>
> Sam Sloan
The Chinese Chess World Championship that Sloan claimed to
have won had no official sanction either.
There isn't now and there never was a special Championship in
Chinese Chess for FWD's (Foreign White Devils).
|
| |
Date: 13 Oct 2008 02:08:05
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
On Oct 7, 8:51=C2=A0am, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> ButPolgar'spuffery comes along with her claim that she won the
> Woman'sWorldChampionship four times, when she did not, that she won
> the "Triple Crown of Chess" when there is no such title and that she
> is the number onerankedwoman in the USA when she is not.
>
> Sam Sloan
I believe, but I am not sure, that Polgar has made some changes in the
last few days to the claims that she has been making about herself on
http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com
She no longer claims to have won the Woman's World Championship four
times or to have won the "Triple Crown" in chess.
She still has a lot of false claims posted on her blog. For example:
=E2=99=A6 #1 ranked woman chess player in the world at the age of 15 (remai=
n
in the top 3 in the world for 23 straight years)
=E2=99=A6 Currently ranked #1 in the United States
=E2=99=A6 Award-winning and best-selling chess author in numerous languages
=E2=99=A6 First ever recipient of the =E2=80=9CChess Educator of the Year=
=E2=80=9D award
(2003)
Susan has never been ranked number one in the world on the official
FIDE rating list. However, she was tied with Maya Chiburdanidze with a
rating of 2430 on a 1985 FIDE Rating list. Since 1992 she had been
ranked in the top three in only a few of the official rating lists.
Susan is not ranked number one in the US now. The number one ranking
has been held by either Irina Krush or Anna Zatonskih for the last
several years. If Susan came back and played I doubt that she could
beat either one of them now, due to her age and inactivity. Remember
that the last time Susan played in an open rated tournament was the
2005 US Amateur Team East and there her performance rating for the
tournament was 2173. I do not believe that either Anna Zatonskih or
Irina Krush have ever had such a poor result. Here are the official
current top rankings:
1 Zatonskih, Anna (12873912) NY USA 2498
2 Krush, Irina (12543137) NY USA 2493
As far as I know, Susan's books are only published in English. None of
them have received awards, other than the awards she gives herself.
I have never heard of the title of =E2=80=9CChess Educator of the Year=E2=
=80=9D. This
sounds like something that Truong awarded her.
By claiming to have achieved things that she has not actually
achieved, Susan Polgar is cheating those who have worked hard to
actually achieve those things. For example, Susan is right now
cheating Anna Zatonskih, who is a very active player, of the
recognition Anna has earned and deserves for being both the US Woman's
Champion and currently the highest ranked player on the official list.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 12 Oct 2008 07:00:15
From:
Subject: Re: More honking of the wild sloon
|
On Oct 11, 8:32=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> 3) Even if the USCF assigned ratings to all the players in the
> Piatigorsky Cup, in 1966 Najdorf, Donner, Unzicker and Ivkov would
> almost certainly have been rated in the 2500s. They didn't start
> giving out 2600 ratings to all and sundry until quite recently. This,
> however, _is_ subject to test. Find a 1967 annual rating list and look
> up the ratings. If you're too lazy or stupid to do so (what do I mean,
> "if"?), shut up and crawl back under your rock.
I don't believe the Piatigorsky Cup tournaments were USCF-rated,
except perhaps games between two Americans. Nor did any of the foreign
players there have a USCF rating at that time, as far as I can tell.
Checking the rating list in the December 1966 Chess Life, the only
Piatigorsky Cup contestants I can find are the Americans: Fischer (who
played in 1966), Reshevsky (1963 and 1966) and Benko (1963). They are
rated 2713, 2626 and 2542 respectively. Nothing for Larsen, Petrosian,
Spassky, Keres, Donner, Unzicker, Najdorf et al.
For what it's worth, I can supply ratings from Elo's "The Rating of
Chessplayers Past and Present." He provides a full list, current as of
1 January 1978, of GMs and IMs, giving their 1-1-1978 rating and, in
some cases, their best 5-year average rating, whenever that may have
been. Here is what he has for the non-American players from Santa
Monica 1966:
Name 5-yr peak 1-1-1978
Spassky: 2680 2630
Larsen: ----- 2620
Portisch: ----- 2630
Unzicker: 2590 2525
Petrosian: 2680 2620
Najdorf: 2635 2525
Ivkov: 2570 2515
Donner: 2500 2490
As far as 1966 is concerned, Unzicker, Petrosian, Ivkov and Donner
were probably at or near their peaks at that time. Spassky and Larsen
were probably near but not quite at their peaks yet, Fischer was
definitely not yet at his peak, while Najdorf and Reshevsky were past
theirs.
|
| | |
Date: 13 Oct 2008 15:22:44
From: Chess One
Subject: Re: More honking of the wild sloon
|
<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Oct 11, 8:32 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> 3) Even if the USCF assigned ratings to all the players in the
> Piatigorsky Cup, in 1966 Najdorf, Donner, Unzicker and Ivkov would
> almost certainly have been rated in the 2500s. They didn't start
> giving out 2600 ratings to all and sundry until quite recently. This,
> however, _is_ subject to test. Find a 1967 annual rating list and look
> up the ratings. If you're too lazy or stupid to do so (what do I mean,
> "if"?), shut up and crawl back under your rock.
I don't believe the Piatigorsky Cup tournaments were USCF-rated,
except perhaps games between two Americans. Nor did any of the foreign
players there have a USCF rating at that time, as far as I can tell.
Checking the rating list in the December 1966 Chess Life, the only
Piatigorsky Cup contestants I can find are the Americans: Fischer (who
played in 1966), Reshevsky (1963 and 1966) and Benko (1963). They are
rated 2713, 2626 and 2542 respectively. Nothing for Larsen, Petrosian,
Spassky, Keres, Donner, Unzicker, Najdorf et al.
For what it's worth, I can supply ratings from Elo's "The Rating of
Chessplayers Past and Present." He provides a full list, current as of
1 January 1978, of GMs and IMs, giving their 1-1-1978 rating and, in
some cases, their best 5-year average rating, whenever that may have
been. Here is what he has for the non-American players from Santa
Monica 1966:
Name 5-yr peak 1-1-1978
Spassky: 2680 2630
Larsen: ----- 2620
Portisch: ----- 2630
Unzicker: 2590 2525
Petrosian: 2680 2620
Najdorf: 2635 2525
Ivkov: 2570 2515
Donner: 2500 2490
**Therefore, even with these retro-ratings, and even with some players
assessed at their peak, the last 3 players seriously reduce the Category
rating to less tha XV, - these 8 players average 2,569 in '78 - and even
given these means the current SPICE XV stands as being correct as highest.
Of course this is understandable to all, except for Sam Sloan and the NY
Times [who get their chessic advice from the 8-ball?] and USCF; the current
tournament was always the strongest 10 player rr Cat XV, simply because
there was never any higher tournament held. The Sloan will not answer these
factual objections since he has moved on to toilets, what is written on
their walls, and if that is some equivalent to his own utterances in a
court, and if the very idea of being equivalent to toilet graffitum is a
'defence'. Well, I suppose the justices could decide if there is even a
theoretical basis for someone of such standand to suffer reduction in the
mind's of the chess public. And they could as well argue if you could get
all Paris in a bottle - what is notable in these affairs is that the
obsessive attention of Sloan to Polgar is not admitted here publicly by the
Sloan, and instead he suggests to us all [gasp fpor breath] that the inverse
is true: that he is so fascinating or important or something, that a world
champion became obsessed by it, 2,500 instances followed. And [b] if it
wasn't her, it was her now husband who needed to deflate the Sloan lesser
than toilets have lessened others. Quite why anyone would want to do this as
an anon and 2,500 times is entirely unclear, as the Sloan himself would put
it, since I have merely done it a few hundred times, as have you, dear
newsgroup reader, and we have no need to pretend to be him to refute him -
or not to own our own comments, since they seem sensible to us to say, and
are very generally not contested criticisms of the real and really elusive
Sloan. Phil Innes
As far as 1966 is concerned, Unzicker, Petrosian, Ivkov and Donner
were probably at or near their peaks at that time. Spassky and Larsen
were probably near but not quite at their peaks yet, Fischer was
definitely not yet at his peak, while Najdorf and Reshevsky were past
theirs.
|
| |
Date: 11 Oct 2008 17:32:56
From:
Subject: Re: More honking of the wild sloon
|
samsloan wrote:
> On Oct 11, 7:38=EF=BF=BDpm, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > samsloan wrote:
> > > Oct 11, 2:29 am, [email protected] wrote:
> > > > samsloan wrote:
> > > > > "It is sad to see a few people who have done virtually zero for c=
hess
> > > > > using the NY Times article to make wild attacks and insults towar=
d
> > > > > innocent people without even checking the facts.
> >
> > > > > "Best wishes,
> > > > > "Susan Polgar
> > > > > "http://www.SusanPolgar.blogspot.com
> > > > > "http://www.SusanPolgar.com"
> >
> > > > This almost certainly refers to McClain pimping for your crackpot
> > > > lawsuits, by printing your crazy allegations without any serious fa=
ct-
> > > > checking. Whatever one thinks of Polgar and Truong, treating a
> > > > vexatious litigant like you as a reliable source shows very poor
> > > > judgment on McClain's part.
> >
> > > > > Have you noticed how Susan Polgar claims that her SPICE Cup was t=
he
> > > > > strongest RR tournament in US history because the Second Piatagor=
sky
> > > > > Cup, with Fischer, Spassky and Petrosian, was a double round robi=
n
> > > > > whereas her tournament was only a single round robin?
> >
> > > > > Sam Sloan
> >
> > > > Can you document Polgar actually saying that, or is it another of y=
our
> > > > hallucinations? The press release I saw described it as "the Highes=
t
> > > > Rated 10-player International Round-Robin in U.S. History," which i=
s
> > > > technically true -- FIDE didn't have a rating system in 1966. (It's
> > > > also weasel-worded PR flackery, but that's another matter.)
> >
> > > The Second Piatigorsky Cup had Petrosian and Spassky, Bobby Fischer,
> > > Samuel Reshevsky, Bent Larsen (Denmark), Lajos Portisch (Hungary),
> > > Wolfgang Unzicker (West Germany), Miguel Najdorf (Argentina), Borisla=
v
> > > Ivkov (Yugoslavia), and Jan Hein Donner (Netherlands). It was a ten-
> > > player double round robin.
> >
> > > Susan Polgar's SPICE Cup had Alexander Onischuk, Harikrishna Pentala,
> > > Varuzhan Akobian, Leonid Kritz, Gregory Kaidanov, Julio Becerra,
> > > Victor Mikhalevski, Kamil Miton, Hannes Stefansson and Eugene
> > > Perelshteyn. It was a ten-player round robin.
> >
> > > Susan Polgar states that it is "debatable" which one was stronger, bu=
t
> > > that her's was the strongest ten-player round robin because the Secon=
d
> > > Piatigorsky Cup was a ten player double round-robin.
> >
> > > Do you think that it is "debatable"? If so, which side of this debate
> > > would you like to take?
> >
> > > Sam Sloan
> >
> > So, as I asked before, can you document Polgar actually saying that?
>
> Susan wrote: "In both emails, I clearly did not use the word strongest
> which may or may not be true but definitely highly debateable since
> some other big tournaments were from different time and it is
> difficult to compare. I clearly stated "Highest rated 10-player
> international round robin chess tournament in U.S. history!" so that
> there can be absolutely no dispute. It clearly defines as a 10-player
> event, round robin and not double round robin, and it includes
> International players so there would be no comparison to U.S.
> championships.
>
> Susan states above that it is "debateable" as the whether her SPICE
> Cup won by Harikrishna Pentala was stronger than the Second
> Piatigorsky won by Spassky.
>
> So, I am asking you: Which side of this debate would you like to take?
>
> Her claim that the SPICE CUP is the highest rated is not clear either.
> Although FIDE Ratings did not exist in 1966, USCF ratings had been
> long established. In spite of the tremendous rating inflation since
> 1966 it is still likely that the Second Piatigorsky was higher rated.
>
>
> Sam Sloan
1) You just conceded that you are a liar (or, to frame it in the
manner most favorable to you, a blithering idiot).
2) I am inclined to agree that the 2nd Piatigorsky Cup was stronger,
and probably the first as well (Keres, Petrosian, Najdorf, Olafsson,
Reshevsky, Gligoric, Benko, Panno). But since the hypothesis is
inherently untestable without a time machine, arguing about it is
utterly pointless.
3) Even if the USCF assigned ratings to all the players in the
Piatigorsky Cup, in 1966 Najdorf, Donner, Unzicker and Ivkov would
almost certainly have been rated in the 2500s. They didn't start
giving out 2600 ratings to all and sundry until quite recently. This,
however, _is_ subject to test. Find a 1967 annual rating list and look
up the ratings. If you're too lazy or stupid to do so (what do I mean,
"if"?), shut up and crawl back under your rock.
|
| |
Date: 11 Oct 2008 16:53:42
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: More honking of the wild sloon
|
On Oct 11, 7:38=A0pm, Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
<[email protected] > wrote:
> samsloan wrote:
> > Oct 11, 2:29 am, [email protected] wrote:
> > > samsloan wrote:
> > > > "It is sad to see a few people who have done virtually zero for che=
ss
> > > > using the NY Times article to make wild attacks and insults toward
> > > > innocent people without even checking the facts.
>
> > > > "Best wishes,
> > > > "Susan Polgar
> > > > "http://www.SusanPolgar.blogspot.com
> > > > "http://www.SusanPolgar.com"
>
> > > This almost certainly refers to McClain pimping for your crackpot
> > > lawsuits, by printing your crazy allegations without any serious fact=
-
> > > checking. Whatever one thinks of Polgar and Truong, treating a
> > > vexatious litigant like you as a reliable source shows very poor
> > > judgment on McClain's part.
>
> > > > Have you noticed how Susan Polgar claims that her SPICE Cup was the
> > > > strongest RR tournament in US history because the Second Piatagorsk=
y
> > > > Cup, with Fischer, Spassky and Petrosian, was a double round robin
> > > > whereas her tournament was only a single round robin?
>
> > > > Sam Sloan
>
> > > Can you document Polgar actually saying that, or is it another of you=
r
> > > hallucinations? The press release I saw described it as "the Highest
> > > Rated 10-player International Round-Robin in U.S. History," which is
> > > technically true -- FIDE didn't have a rating system in 1966. (It's
> > > also weasel-worded PR flackery, but that's another matter.)
>
> > The Second Piatigorsky Cup had Petrosian and Spassky, Bobby Fischer,
> > Samuel Reshevsky, Bent Larsen (Denmark), Lajos Portisch (Hungary),
> > Wolfgang Unzicker (West Germany), Miguel Najdorf (Argentina), Borislav
> > Ivkov (Yugoslavia), and Jan Hein Donner (Netherlands). It was a ten-
> > player double round robin.
>
> > Susan Polgar's SPICE Cup had Alexander Onischuk, Harikrishna Pentala,
> > Varuzhan Akobian, Leonid Kritz, Gregory Kaidanov, Julio Becerra,
> > Victor Mikhalevski, Kamil Miton, Hannes Stefansson and Eugene
> > Perelshteyn. It was a ten-player round robin.
>
> > Susan Polgar states that it is "debatable" which one was stronger, but
> > that her's was the strongest ten-player round robin because the Second
> > Piatigorsky Cup was a ten player double round-robin.
>
> > Do you think that it is "debatable"? If so, which side of this debate
> > would you like to take?
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> So, as I asked before, can you document Polgar actually saying that?
Susan wrote: "In both emails, I clearly did not use the word strongest
which may or may not be true but definitely highly debateable since
some other big tournaments were from different time and it is
difficult to compare. I clearly stated "Highest rated 10-player
international round robin chess tournament in U.S. history!" so that
there can be absolutely no dispute. It clearly defines as a 10-player
event, round robin and not double round robin, and it includes
International players so there would be no comparison to U.S.
championships.
Susan states above that it is "debateable" as the whether her SPICE
Cup won by Harikrishna Pentala was stronger than the Second
Piatigorsky won by Spassky.
So, I am asking you: Which side of this debate would you like to take?
Her claim that the SPICE CUP is the highest rated is not clear either.
Although FIDE Ratings did not exist in 1966, USCF ratings had been
long established. In spite of the tremendous rating inflation since
1966 it is still likely that the Second Piatigorsky was higher rated.
Also, remember that it is Susan who is aggressively attacking the New
York Times on her blog. The New York Times has no interest in pursuing
this debate.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 11 Oct 2008 03:22:51
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
Oct 11, 2:29 am, [email protected] wrote:
> samsloan wrote:
> > "It is sad to see a few people who have done virtually zero for chess
> > using the NY Times article to make wild attacks and insults toward
> > innocent people without even checking the facts.
>
> > "Best wishes,
> > "Susan Polgar
> > "http://www.SusanPolgar.blogspot.com
> > "http://www.SusanPolgar.com"
>
> This almost certainly refers to McClain pimping for your crackpot
> lawsuits, by printing your crazy allegations without any serious fact-
> checking. Whatever one thinks of Polgar and Truong, treating a
> vexatious litigant like you as a reliable source shows very poor
> judgment on McClain's part.
>
> > Have you noticed how Susan Polgar claims that her SPICE Cup was the
> > strongest RR tournament in US history because the Second Piatagorsky
> > Cup, with Fischer, Spassky and Petrosian, was a double round robin
> > whereas her tournament was only a single round robin?
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> Can you document Polgar actually saying that, or is it another of your
> hallucinations? The press release I saw described it as "the Highest
> Rated 10-player International Round-Robin in U.S. History," which is
> technically true -- FIDE didn't have a rating system in 1966. (It's
> also weasel-worded PR flackery, but that's another matter.)
The Second Piatigorsky Cup had Petrosian and Spassky, Bobby Fischer,
Samuel Reshevsky, Bent Larsen (Denmark), Lajos Portisch (Hungary),
Wolfgang Unzicker (West Germany), Miguel Najdorf (Argentina), Borislav
Ivkov (Yugoslavia), and Jan Hein Donner (Netherlands). It was a ten-
player double round robin.
Susan Polgar's SPICE Cup had Alexander Onischuk, Harikrishna Pentala,
Varuzhan Akobian, Leonid Kritz, Gregory Kaidanov, Julio Becerra,
Victor Mikhalevski, Kamil Miton, Hannes Stefansson and Eugene
Perelshteyn. It was a ten-player round robin.
Susan Polgar states that it is "debatable" which one was stronger, but
that her's was the strongest ten-player round robin because the Second
Piatigorsky Cup was a ten player double round-robin.
Do you think that it is "debatable"? If so, which side of this debate
would you like to take?
Sam Sloan
|
| | |
Date: 12 Oct 2008 01:38:54
From: Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer
Subject: More honking of the wild sloon
|
samsloan wrote:
> Oct 11, 2:29 am, [email protected] wrote:
> > samsloan wrote:
> > > "It is sad to see a few people who have done virtually zero for chess
> > > using the NY Times article to make wild attacks and insults toward
> > > innocent people without even checking the facts.
> >
> > > "Best wishes,
> > > "Susan Polgar
> > > "http://www.SusanPolgar.blogspot.com
> > > "http://www.SusanPolgar.com"
> >
> > This almost certainly refers to McClain pimping for your crackpot
> > lawsuits, by printing your crazy allegations without any serious fact-
> > checking. Whatever one thinks of Polgar and Truong, treating a
> > vexatious litigant like you as a reliable source shows very poor
> > judgment on McClain's part.
> >
> > > Have you noticed how Susan Polgar claims that her SPICE Cup was the
> > > strongest RR tournament in US history because the Second Piatagorsky
> > > Cup, with Fischer, Spassky and Petrosian, was a double round robin
> > > whereas her tournament was only a single round robin?
> >
> > > Sam Sloan
> >
> > Can you document Polgar actually saying that, or is it another of your
> > hallucinations? The press release I saw described it as "the Highest
> > Rated 10-player International Round-Robin in U.S. History," which is
> > technically true -- FIDE didn't have a rating system in 1966. (It's
> > also weasel-worded PR flackery, but that's another matter.)
>
> The Second Piatigorsky Cup had Petrosian and Spassky, Bobby Fischer,
> Samuel Reshevsky, Bent Larsen (Denmark), Lajos Portisch (Hungary),
> Wolfgang Unzicker (West Germany), Miguel Najdorf (Argentina), Borislav
> Ivkov (Yugoslavia), and Jan Hein Donner (Netherlands). It was a ten-
> player double round robin.
>
> Susan Polgar's SPICE Cup had Alexander Onischuk, Harikrishna Pentala,
> Varuzhan Akobian, Leonid Kritz, Gregory Kaidanov, Julio Becerra,
> Victor Mikhalevski, Kamil Miton, Hannes Stefansson and Eugene
> Perelshteyn. It was a ten-player round robin.
>
> Susan Polgar states that it is "debatable" which one was stronger, but
> that her's was the strongest ten-player round robin because the Second
> Piatigorsky Cup was a ten player double round-robin.
>
> Do you think that it is "debatable"? If so, which side of this debate
> would you like to take?
>
> Sam Sloan
So, as I asked before, can you document Polgar actually saying that?
|
| |
Date: 10 Oct 2008 19:29:34
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
Here is another attack by Susan Polgar:
"If picking on one debateable sentence written by a non-chess player
out of more than one hundred from SPICE makes better news for the NY
Times then so be it. I cannot control what is written in the NY Times.
"My last response to Mr. McClain was:
"Thank you Dylan for covering the SPICE Cup.
"Best wishes,
"Susan Polgar
"It is sad to see a few people who have done virtually zero for chess
using the NY Times article to make wild attacks and insults toward
innocent people without even checking the facts.
"Best wishes,
"Susan Polgar
" http://www.SusanPolgar.blogspot.com
" http://www.SusanPolgar.com "
http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1526
However, the "wild attacks" are coming from Susan Polgar and her
cronies against the New York Times and its reporter, not the other way
around. The Times report was accurate. Texas Tech University announced
that the tournament was the strongest in US history. That was not
true. It was not debatable. It was simply not true. Why does Susan
Polgar keep attacking the New York Times for writing a true and
accurate report of her event. Would she have preferred that the Times
not report on the event at all? And who is making "wild insults"
here? Anybody other than Susan Polgar?
Have you noticed how Susan Polgar claims that her SPICE Cup was the
strongest RR tournament in US history because the Second Piatagorsky
Cup, with Fischer, Spassky and Petrosian, was a double round robin
whereas her tournament was only a single round robin?
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 10 Oct 2008 19:14:13
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
Here is the latest attack piece by Susan Polgar:
"In both emails, I clearly did not use the word strongest which may or
may not be true but definitely highly debateable since some other big
tournaments were from different time and it is difficult to compare. I
clearly stated "Highest rated 10-player international round robin
chess tournament in U.S. history!" so that there can be absolutely no
dispute. It clearly defines as a 10-player event, round robin and not
double round robin, and it includes International players so there
would be no comparison to U.S. championships.
"I also sent the same info to over 40 media (chess and non-chess)
sources."
"Susan Polgar
"http://www.SusanPolgar.blogspot.com
"http://www.SusanPolgar.com"
http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1526
However, the New York Times did not say that Susan herself said that
the SPICE tournament was the strongest in US history. Rather, the New
York Times said that Texas Tech University said that, which was
correct, because Texas Tech University clearly did say that.
So, why is Susan Polgar attacking the New York Times and its reporter?
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 07 Oct 2008 12:29:08
From: SBD
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
On Oct 7, 1:52=A0pm, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> If the announcement said that it was "the highest rated tournament
> under the FIDE rating system since 1970" few would have disputed it.
It is interesting to try to determine how much of this is needed
criticism in the name of accuracy and how much of it is a tempest in a
teacup.
You see this sort of thing all the time. In Tim Taylor's Pawn
Sacrifice!, blurbs refer both to the book as a pioneering work and an
"in-depth study." It is not a bad little book at all, but it really is
neither of those things, something of the first and none of the
second. But having published a few books, I know how blurb-writers get
carried away (and the author doesn't always see those or sometimes
have much say), so I wouldn't doubt that some PR guy at TTU did the
same thing. But you do have to advertise in this world. And that makes
for exaggerated copy.
The NYT report seems accurate, and hardly worth all the effort Polgar
and her followers put into disputing it, but they seem to live for
this sort of controversy, as does Sloan. I am beginning to find the
whole group "birds of a feather." It's the chess equivalent of the
Hatfields and McCoys.
It strikes me as the sort of thing best ignored, get on to the next
even stronger SPICE tournament, etc. Let the naysayers chatter.
|
| |
Date: 07 Oct 2008 11:52:43
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
On Oct 7, 2:44=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 7, 2:30=A0pm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 7, 2:17=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 7, 6:34=A0am, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 6, 11:34=A0pm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > Take a look at:http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/10/spice-cup.=
html
>
> > > > > Through her ubiquitous "anonymous" posters, Susan Polgar is attac=
king
> > > > > the New York Times, demanding that its reporter be fired.
>
> > > > > He had better watch out. Next thing, Susan Polgar will sue his as=
s,
> > > > > claiming that he is persecuting her because she is a woman and of
> > > > > foreign descent.
>
> > > > > Sam Sloan
>
> > > > Also, take a look athttp://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic=
.php?f=3D4&t=3D1526
>
> > > > Under the header "Questionable journalism?"
> > > > Susan Polgar and Gregory Alexander are attacking the New York Times
> > > > for "nit-picking".
>
> > > > Sam Sloan
>
> > > =A0 What is the NY Times reporter's source for his statement that "Te=
xas
> > > Tech said the Spice Cup was the strongest invitational tournament to
> > > be held in the United States"? Who at Texas Tech said this, when,
> > > where? Did any such statement actually appear anywhere under Texas
> > > Tech auspices?
> > > =A0 It does not appear that Polgar herself has issued any such
> > > statement; rather, she said "the 2008 SPICE Cup [will be] the highest
> > > rated 10 person International RR event in U.S. history." That's not a=
t
> > > all the same thing as McClain reports.
>
> > The New York Times quoted a press release from Texas Tech that has
> > been on the USCF website since July 10, 2008. If this was wrong Susan
> > had an obligation as a USCF Board member and as director of the SPICE
> > Program to correct it:
>
> >http://main.uschess.org/content/view/8558/319/
>
> =A0 Couldn't get that link to work.
>
> > 2008 SPICE Cup to Break Records =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Print =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 E-mail
> > By Cory Chandler
> > July 12, 2008
> > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> > DATE: July 10, 2008
> > CONTACT: Cory Chandler, [email protected]
> > (806) 742-2136
>
> > 2008 SPICE Cup is the Highest Rated 10-player International Round-
> > Robin in U.S. History
>
> > Texas Tech University=92s Susan Polgar Institute for Chess Excellence
> > announced Thursday it has assembled the strongest field of chess
> > grandmasters in U.S. round-robin history for its 2008 SPICE Cup
> > International Invitational Tournament.
>
> =A0 =A0Hmmm, I see. Thank you. The headline is accurate, but the sentence
> following is highly questionable.
Right, it says:
Texas Tech University=92s Susan Polgar Institute for Chess Excellence
announced Thursday it has assembled the strongest field of chess
grandmasters in U.S. round-robin history.
US history starts in 1789. The USCF rating system started in 1950 and
the FIDE rating system started in 1970.
If the announcement said that it was "the highest rated tournament
under the FIDE rating system since 1970" few would have disputed it.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 07 Oct 2008 11:44:55
From:
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
On Oct 7, 2:30=A0pm, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 7, 2:17=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 7, 6:34=A0am, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 6, 11:34=A0pm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Take a look at:http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/10/spice-cup.ht=
ml
>
> > > > Through her ubiquitous "anonymous" posters, Susan Polgar is attacki=
ng
> > > > the New York Times, demanding that its reporter be fired.
>
> > > > He had better watch out. Next thing, Susan Polgar will sue his ass,
> > > > claiming that he is persecuting her because she is a woman and of
> > > > foreign descent.
>
> > > > Sam Sloan
>
> > > Also, take a look athttp://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.p=
hp?f=3D4&t=3D1526
>
> > > Under the header "Questionable journalism?"
> > > Susan Polgar and Gregory Alexander are attacking the New York Times
> > > for "nit-picking".
>
> > > Sam Sloan
>
> > =A0 What is the NY Times reporter's source for his statement that "Texa=
s
> > Tech said the Spice Cup was the strongest invitational tournament to
> > be held in the United States"? Who at Texas Tech said this, when,
> > where? Did any such statement actually appear anywhere under Texas
> > Tech auspices?
> > =A0 It does not appear that Polgar herself has issued any such
> > statement; rather, she said "the 2008 SPICE Cup [will be] the highest
> > rated 10 person International RR event in U.S. history." That's not at
> > all the same thing as McClain reports.
>
> The New York Times quoted a press release from Texas Tech that has
> been on the USCF website since July 10, 2008. If this was wrong Susan
> had an obligation as a USCF Board member and as director of the SPICE
> Program to correct it:
>
> http://main.uschess.org/content/view/8558/319/
Couldn't get that link to work.
> 2008 SPICE Cup to Break Records =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Print =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
=A0 E-mail
> By Cory Chandler
> July 12, 2008
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> DATE: July 10, 2008
> CONTACT: Cory Chandler, [email protected]
> (806) 742-2136
>
> 2008 SPICE Cup is the Highest Rated 10-player International Round-
> Robin in U.S. History
>
> Texas Tech University=92s Susan Polgar Institute for Chess Excellence
> announced Thursday it has assembled the strongest field of chess
> grandmasters in U.S. round-robin history for its 2008 SPICE Cup
> International Invitational Tournament.
Hmmm, I see. Thank you. The headline is accurate, but the sentence
following is highly questionable.
|
| |
Date: 07 Oct 2008 11:30:04
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
On Oct 7, 2:17=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 7, 6:34=A0am, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 6, 11:34=A0pm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Take a look at:http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/10/spice-cup.html
>
> > > Through her ubiquitous "anonymous" posters, Susan Polgar is attacking
> > > the New York Times, demanding that its reporter be fired.
>
> > > He had better watch out. Next thing, Susan Polgar will sue his ass,
> > > claiming that he is persecuting her because she is a woman and of
> > > foreign descent.
>
> > > Sam Sloan
>
> > Also, take a look athttp://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php=
?f=3D4&t=3D1526
>
> > Under the header "Questionable journalism?"
> > Susan Polgar and Gregory Alexander are attacking the New York Times
> > for "nit-picking".
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> =A0 What is the NY Times reporter's source for his statement that "Texas
> Tech said the Spice Cup was the strongest invitational tournament to
> be held in the United States"? Who at Texas Tech said this, when,
> where? Did any such statement actually appear anywhere under Texas
> Tech auspices?
> =A0 It does not appear that Polgar herself has issued any such
> statement; rather, she said "the 2008 SPICE Cup [will be] the highest
> rated 10 person International RR event in U.S. history." That's not at
> all the same thing as McClain reports.
The New York Times quoted a press release from Texas Tech that has
been on the USCF website since July 10, 2008. If this was wrong Susan
had an obligation as a USCF Board member and as director of the SPICE
Program to correct it:
http://main.uschess.org/content/view/8558/319/
2008 SPICE Cup to Break Records Print E-mail
By Cory Chandler
July 12, 2008
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
DATE: July 10, 2008
CONTACT: Cory Chandler, [email protected]
(806) 742-2136
2008 SPICE Cup is the Highest Rated 10-player International Round-
Robin in U.S. History
Texas Tech University=92s Susan Polgar Institute for Chess Excellence
announced Thursday it has assembled the strongest field of chess
grandmasters in U.S. round-robin history for its 2008 SPICE Cup
International Invitational Tournament.
|
| |
Date: 07 Oct 2008 11:17:02
From:
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
On Oct 7, 6:34=A0am, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> On Oct 6, 11:34=A0pm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Take a look at:http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/10/spice-cup.html
>
> > Through her ubiquitous "anonymous" posters, Susan Polgar is attacking
> > the New York Times, demanding that its reporter be fired.
>
> > He had better watch out. Next thing, Susan Polgar will sue his ass,
> > claiming that he is persecuting her because she is a woman and of
> > foreign descent.
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> Also, take a look athttp://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=
=3D4&t=3D1526
>
> Under the header "Questionable journalism?"
> Susan Polgar and Gregory Alexander are attacking the New York Times
> for "nit-picking".
>
> Sam Sloan
What is the NY Times reporter's source for his statement that "Texas
Tech said the Spice Cup was the strongest invitational tournament to
be held in the United States"? Who at Texas Tech said this, when,
where? Did any such statement actually appear anywhere under Texas
Tech auspices?
It does not appear that Polgar herself has issued any such
statement; rather, she said "the 2008 SPICE Cup [will be] the highest
rated 10 person International RR event in U.S. history." That's not at
all the same thing as McClain reports.
|
| |
Date: 07 Oct 2008 10:47:13
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
On Oct 7, 1:34=A0pm, "Chess One" <[email protected] > wrote:
> Who then is the #1 ranked? Is there really any woman with a stronger rati=
ng
> in the US? I thought Susan Polgar was about 100 points clear of all rival=
s -
> but perhaps Sam Sloan will now think I 'attack' him, rather than address =
a
> plain fact?
>
> Phil Innes
Thank you for asking.
This information is available on the USCF website:
http://main.uschess.org/component/option,com_top_players/Itemid,371?op=3Dli=
st&month=3D0810&f=3DTopWomen&h=3DTop%20Women
Here are the top ten players in the USA:
1 Zatonskih, Anna (12873912) NY USA 2498
2 Krush, Irina (12543137) NY USA 2493
3 Goletiani, Rusudan (12807449) NY USA 2384
4 Rohonyan, Katerine (12973020) WA USA 2335
5 Abrahamyan, Tatev (12851435) CA USA 2328
6 Tuvshintugs, Batchimeg (12925481) CA USA 2312
7 Melekhina, Alisa (12726115) PA USA 2310
8 Shahade, Jennifer (20058274) PA USA 2301
9 Battsetseg, Tsagaan (12719650) MD USA 2256
10 Zenyuk, Iryna (12846035) NY USA 2249
As you can plainly see, Susan Polgar is not even in the top ten.
Sam Sloan
|
| | |
Date: 08 Oct 2008 03:49:38
From: Bob
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
samsloan wrote:
> Susan Polgar
And yet Susan is still rated higher thatn any of these.
http://main.uschess.org/assets/msa_joomla/MbrDtlMain.php?12452240
Just another problem with the USCF website. I suppose the list you
cited was of "active" players, but this is just a guess and not sted on
the website.
--
|
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Date: 07 Oct 2008 05:51:20
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
Susan Polgar organized a tournament with ten players that nobody ever
heard of but all of whom have very high ratings.
She deserves full credit for that.
All she had to do was say that it was "one of the strongest
tournaments ever heard in the USA" and everybody would have agreed.
But her publicist had to say that it was the "strongest". That is
where the trouble lies.
Now, it is entirely possible that Pentala Harikrishna, Alexander
Onischuk, Varuzhan Akobian and Leonid Kritz really are stronger than
Capablanca, Lasker and Alekhine who played in New York 1924. We will
never know because Capablanca, Lasker and Alekhine are all dead and
Pentala Harikrishna, Alexander Onischuk, Varuzhan Akobian and Leonid
Kritz all come armed with computer databases that have figured out
their opening moves before they even sit down to play.
It is also possible that Pentala Harikrishna, Alexander Onischuk,
Varuzhan Akobian and Leonid Kritz are stronger than Fischer, Spassky
and Petrosian who played in the Piatagorsky Cup. Nobody will ever
really know.
But Polgar's puffery comes along with her claim that she won the
Woman's World Championship four times, when she did not, that she won
the "Triple Crown of Chess" when there is no such title and that she
is the number one ranked woman in the USA when she is not.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 07 Oct 2008 03:56:01
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
On Oct 7, 5:23=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
> As for the anonymous trolls, what part of "anonymous" is confusing to you=
? For
> all we know, they could be you, trying to discredit Polgar by
> pretending to be an insane supporter.
Sorry, but I know exactly what "anonymous trolls" means on Polgar's
websites.
It means something that Polgar or Truong wrote that they do not want
to sign their names too.
There are hundreds of examples of this. Some "anonymous troll" will
attack a person and then Polgar will write something like "Don't
attack that person. He is such a nice guy in spite of his character
flaws." This makes Polgar seem to be the voice of moderation when
actually it was her or Truong who wrote both postings.
Sam Sloan
|
| |
Date: 07 Oct 2008 03:34:54
From: samsloan
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
On Oct 6, 11:34=A0pm, samsloan <[email protected] > wrote:
> Take a look at:http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/10/spice-cup.html
>
> Through her ubiquitous "anonymous" posters, Susan Polgar is attacking
> the New York Times, demanding that its reporter be fired.
>
> He had better watch out. Next thing, Susan Polgar will sue his ass,
> claiming that he is persecuting her because she is a woman and of
> foreign descent.
>
> Sam Sloan
Also, take a look at
http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3D4&t=3D1526
Under the header "Questionable journalism?"
Susan Polgar and Gregory Alexander are attacking the New York Times
for "nit-picking".
Sam Sloan
|
| | |
Date: 07 Oct 2008 10:53:46
From: Brian Lafferty
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
samsloan wrote:
> On Oct 6, 11:34 pm, samsloan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Take a look at:http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/10/spice-cup.html
>>
>> Through her ubiquitous "anonymous" posters, Susan Polgar is attacking
>> the New York Times, demanding that its reporter be fired.
>>
>> He had better watch out. Next thing, Susan Polgar will sue his ass,
>> claiming that he is persecuting her because she is a woman and of
>> foreign descent.
>>
>> Sam Sloan
>
> Also, take a look at
> http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1526
>
> Under the header "Questionable journalism?"
> Susan Polgar and Gregory Alexander are attacking the New York Times
> for "nit-picking".
>
> Sam Sloan
I think she should join McClain and the NY Times in her "defamation"
action. They clearly don't like her and they are tearing down
everything she and hubby do because she is of Eastern European heritage.
They probably wish she was still in Forrest Hill running these
tournaments out of the Polgar Chess Center. Shame on the Times for
pointing out the truth. Shame!
|
| |
Date: 07 Oct 2008 02:23:40
From:
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
samsloan wrote:
> Take a look at:
> http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/10/spice-cup.html
>
> Through her ubiquitous "anonymous" posters, Susan Polgar is attacking
> the New York Times, demanding that its reporter be fired.
>
> He had better watch out. Next thing, Susan Polgar will sue his ass,
> claiming that he is persecuting her because she is a woman and of
> foreign descent.
>
> Sam Sloan
This is a good example of why, no matter what Truong and Polgar may
have done, I still find them more tolerable than some of the bottom-
feeding vermin on the other side. (In case I'm being too subtle, Sam,
that refers to you.) Anyone who bothers to look at the link will see
that Polgar _correctly_ rebukes McClain for misquoting. As for the
anonymous trolls, what part of "anonymous" is confusing to you? For
all we know, they could be you, trying to discredit Polgar by
pretending to be an insane supporter.
(Parenthesis for donkeys: The previous sentence in paranoid drivel. It
is, however, the same kind of paranoid drivel the Sloon tried to
peddle in his nutcase lawsuit. Live by it, die by it.)
|
| | |
Date: 07 Oct 2008 11:18:46
From: Brian Lafferty
Subject: Re: Now Susan Polgar is Attacking the New York Times
|
[email protected] wrote:
>
> samsloan wrote:
>> Take a look at:
>> http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/10/spice-cup.html
>>
>> Through her ubiquitous "anonymous" posters, Susan Polgar is attacking
>> the New York Times, demanding that its reporter be fired.
>>
>> He had better watch out. Next thing, Susan Polgar will sue his ass,
>> claiming that he is persecuting her because she is a woman and of
>> foreign descent.
>>
>> Sam Sloan
>
>
> This is a good example of why, no matter what Truong and Polgar may
> have done, I still find them more tolerable than some of the bottom-
> feeding vermin on the other side. (In case I'm being too subtle, Sam,
> that refers to you.) Anyone who bothers to look at the link will see
> that Polgar _correctly_ rebukes McClain for misquoting............
From the TTU web site:
"Texas Tech University�s Susan Polgar Institute for Chess Excellence
announces it has assembled the *strongest field of chess grandmasters in
U.S. round-robin history* for its 2008 SPICE Cup International
Invitational Tournament."
|
|
