Playing with Human Opponents at GetClub

Date: 11 Nov 2006 01:28:30
From: Sanny
Subject: Playing with Human Opponents at GetClub

Now it is easy to play with Human Opponents.

Start a game: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Whenever you play game with computer. Login and keep the Search Window
open minimized and when someone searches you You can start a game with
Human Opponent.

1. Login First. 2. Click above button again.
3. Keep it Open (Minimized) for others to choose you.
4. If someone would like to play Chess with you, Then you will get a
request Alert

Please Let me know, if it is easy now to wait for other Human
Opponents.
Start a game: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

You just need to Type whether you want Black/White pieces and Those who
are happy with your Profile can play with you.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 12 Nov 2006 23:57:53
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

Sanny wrote:

> > I tried Internet Explorer 7 tonight, and it failed to
> > load the chess Java applet, saying that Microsoft
> > could not identitfy the software's publisher. By
> > default, my version of IE will not load "Active X"
> > controls from an unidentified publisher. Clearly,
> > this new version of IE not only features powerful
> > tools, but also *safeguards*.
>
>
> Just visit http://www.java.com/en/download/windows_ie.jsp
>
> And download Java for your Internet Explorer.

Okay, this link works and I downloaded the latest
and greatest Java, yet the speed problem persists,
no matter whether I log on using Firefox or Internet
Explorer 7.

With the new IE version 7, music plays -- which
I cannor hear with Firefox on the same Web page.

The new Java version appears to update or connect
to Sanny's Web site more frequently than before,
yet the analysis still loses ground, like before. I
was unable to make any headway at all in my game
due to this problem. Strange. I was expecting the
new Java version to blast through a six-ply analysis
like greased lightning, and kick my slow butt.

-- help bot

Date: 12 Nov 2006 22:48:53
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

> I tried Internet Explorer 7 tonight, and it failed to
> load the chess Java applet, saying that Microsoft
> could not identitfy the software's publisher. By
> default, my version of IE will not load "Active X"
> controls from an unidentified publisher. Clearly,
> this new version of IE not only features powerful
> tools, but also *safeguards*.

Just visit http://www.java.com/en/download/windows_ie.jsp

And download Java for your Internet Explorer.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 12 Nov 2006 22:04:45
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

help bot wrote:
> Kenneth Sloan wrote:
>
> > It always amazes me when people make false claims that are so easily
> > checked.
> >
> > I'll believe the advertised times when you add a CLOCK to the display,
> > and forfeit a player (computer or human) when the time limit is reached.
>
>
> I'm not sure that Sanny himself has any idea as to
> how his chess program works.
>
> Here is a suggestion: since the chess program seems
> to download itself to the user's computer and then start
> a game, just use the user's computer's clock to determine
> the "real" time, and that to determine when the program
> will execute the best move it has found so far, upon
> striking the time limit for a given move. This method
> should solve most of the current problems, except this
> one, which I think is critical:
> The program's display will show a retrograde motion,
> dropping back a few plys at times and thus, tossing all
> that analysis it has done in the trash. Other programs
> like Jester do not seem to have this problem. One
> prominent ad on Sanny's site talks about how computers
> can do things faster and more reliably than humans, so
> this is in no sense restricted to just the chess engine.
> In order to back up this ad, this problem needs to be
> addressed.

I tried Internet Explorer 7 tonight, and it failed to
load the chess Java applet, saying that Microsoft
could not identitfy the software's publisher. By
default, my version of IE will not load "Active X"
controls from an unidentified publisher. Clearly,
this new version of IE not only features powerful
tools, but also *safeguards*.
Since all my "bookks" disappeared, I am
back using my old Mozilla Firfox browser.

-- help bot

Date: 12 Nov 2006 21:32:03
From: help bot
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

Kenneth Sloan wrote:

> It always amazes me when people make false claims that are so easily
> checked.
>
> I'll believe the advertised times when you add a CLOCK to the display,
> and forfeit a player (computer or human) when the time limit is reached.

I'm not sure that Sanny himself has any idea as to
how his chess program works.

Here is a suggestion: since the chess program seems
to download itself to the user's computer and then start
a game, just use the user's computer's clock to determine
the "real" time, and that to determine when the program
will execute the best move it has found so far, upon
striking the time limit for a given move. This method
should solve most of the current problems, except this
one, which I think is critical:
The program's display will show a retrograde motion,
dropping back a few plys at times and thus, tossing all
that analysis it has done in the trash. Other programs
like Jester do not seem to have this problem. One
prominent ad on Sanny's site talks about how computers
can do things faster and more reliably than humans, so
this is in no sense restricted to just the chess engine.
In order to back up this ad, this problem needs to be
addressed.

-- help bot

Date: 12 Nov 2006 02:19:35
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

Dave (from the UK) wrote:
> Sanny wrote:
> > It was a wonderful day for me today, as we found a good technique to
> > increase the Game Speed. Now the Game Plays in Advertised Time.
>
> Sanny, was there any point in you advertising speeds it never did? To
> say it "Now the game plays in advertised times" implies you know fully
> well it did not play in the times you advertised. So why advertise those
> times?
>

Earlier 50-60% moves were made in time. Now 90-95% of the moves will be
made within time.

Chess game is vast So we can never say which move will take exactly how
much time.

With Each Level increase the Depth of Moves is increased by 1. So each
succeding level takes 2-3 times longer than preceding level.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 15 Nov 2006 01:00:34
From: Patrick Volk
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

On 12 Nov 2006 02:19:35 -0800, "Sanny" <[email protected] > wrote:

>
>Dave (from the UK) wrote:
>> Sanny wrote:
>> > It was a wonderful day for me today, as we found a good technique to
>> > increase the Game Speed. Now the Game Plays in Advertised Time.
>>
>> Sanny, was there any point in you advertising speeds it never did? To
>> say it "Now the game plays in advertised times" implies you know fully
>> well it did not play in the times you advertised. So why advertise those
>> times?
>>
>
>Earlier 50-60% moves were made in time. Now 90-95% of the moves will be
>made within time.
>
>Chess game is vast So we can never say which move will take exactly how
>much time.
>
>With Each Level increase the Depth of Moves is increased by 1. So each
>succeding level takes 2-3 times longer than preceding level.

I have to agree with Kenneth here. If you state the time per move, you
should be able to follow it. On slow computers, it will play easier.

A couple of tricks to consider, if you haven't already:

Hope you're not throwing away your analysis on each move. Sounds like
you might be (if you've done a full 2-ply search, the next move you
should only need to do a 1-ply). If you're doing more than 2, it helps
even more.

Alpha-Beta pruning - highly recommended. Checking the entire depth for
a move that throws a queen away shouldn't be evaluated.

Use an opening book, and use the time while you're running the book to
calculate moves and calibrate your timer.

Use the time the player is making his move to evaluate as well.

Sounds like you're stopping on a ply, and not on the stated time.

You also should make sure you have the memory capped. If you're
treating it as a 2 GB machine, most machines will thrash horribly.

>
>Bye
>Sanny
>
>Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 12 Nov 2006 10:42:57
From: Kenneth Sloan
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

Sanny wrote:
> Dave (from the UK) wrote:
>> Sanny wrote:
>>> It was a wonderful day for me today, as we found a good technique to
>>> increase the Game Speed. Now the Game Plays in Advertised Time.
>> Sanny, was there any point in you advertising speeds it never did? To
>> say it "Now the game plays in advertised times" implies you know fully
>> well it did not play in the times you advertised. So why advertise those
>> times?
>>
>
> Earlier 50-60% moves were made in time. Now 90-95% of the moves will be
> made within time.

That has not been my experience.
>
> Chess game is vast So we can never say which move will take exactly how
> much time.

This is the root of the problem. You appear to not understand that it
is perfectly possible to make moves in EXACTLY the required time. The
fact that your program can't do that is the first and most obvious
indication that the program is of very low quality. If you can't even
meet the time control (a SELF IMPOSED time control!) it's hard to see
how the program can find quality chess moves. And, of course, it doesn't.
>
> With Each Level increase the Depth of Moves is increased by 1. So each
> succeding level takes 2-3 times longer than preceding level.

Only if you let it.

>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>

--
Kenneth Sloan [email protected]
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/

Date: 12 Nov 2006 14:37:30
From: Bjoern
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

Sanny wrote:
> Dave (from the UK) wrote:
>
>>Sanny wrote:
>>
>>>It was a wonderful day for me today, as we found a good technique to
>>>increase the Game Speed. Now the Game Plays in Advertised Time.
>>
>>Sanny, was there any point in you advertising speeds it never did? To
>>say it "Now the game plays in advertised times" implies you know fully
>>well it did not play in the times you advertised. So why advertise those
>>times?
>>
>
>
> Earlier 50-60% moves were made in time. Now 90-95% of the moves will be
> made within time.

Have you ever tested your game yourself recently???

The only time when it makes moves quickly is in the endgame when it is
lost anyway (and when there are not so many options for both sides).
During the middle game moves still take up 15-20 minutes on beginner level.

http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM4963&game=Chess
(and if you want to improve your programs evaluation algorithm, you
could try to figure out what induced it to sacrifice pieces like it did
in this game)

> Chess game is vast So we can never say which move will take exactly how
> much time.

You could just program the game so that it makes the best move it has
found by the time the preset time has expired. Could you comment why on
earth you are not doing that?

You might claim that difficult positions might require a lot of thought,
but you should still set a maximum time (e.g. up to 10s for normal
situations 20s for difficult ones?).

So, why are you not doing that? Are you incapable to do that due to a
lack of programming skills?

> With Each Level increase the Depth of Moves is increased by 1. So each
> succeding level takes 2-3 times longer than preceding level.

Ah, now you are telling us that you have been lying to us all the time
and the levels have very little to do with the time the move takes to
calculate, but rather with an extra move of depth for each. Additionally
this clearly shows why the program is much, much slower on less modern
computers. You do realise that I have a very fast computer and anyone
who has a slower one will take even longer before your program moves?

So, basically we have to expect that normal level can take easily up to
80 minutes or so, master 160min and advanced over 3 hours. In fact that
seems to match the observed behaviour of your program on those levels
rather well.

To be honest those are just inacceptable times for a move and you should
do a better job with your programming (for a start you should actually
force the program to make its moves in time even if it hasn't reached
the depth that you desire).

The problem your program has in the middle game is that it is getting
swamped by the number of variations that are possible and tries to
calculate them all, which just takes too long.

Date: 12 Nov 2006 01:36:16
From: SBD
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

You actually have to be a long-term Borat fan to fully get the joke
Sanny, but I am pleased to see you took it so well. Have fun with your
program.

Date: 12 Nov 2006 00:40:37
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

SBD wrote:
> Sanny wrote:
> > It was a wonderful day for me today, as we found a good technique to
> > increase the Game Speed. Now the Game Plays in Advertised Time.
>
> In my country there is problem,
> and that problem is Sanny.
>
> He have a game that play badly,
> but he always disagree.
>
> He say he give money to winner,
> but he never give it out.
>
> He no improve program without more money,
> he is a great big lout.
>
> Game always play slow,
> because chess moves are too beeg,
>
> Throw the game down the well,
> so chessplayers can be free.
>
> Grab it by the horns,
> and we have a beeg partee.

Nice Joke or a Nice Poem but it was a good Start..

TRUTH is now the Game plays very fast and well.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 12 Nov 2006 10:36:08
From: Kenneth Sloan
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

Sanny wrote:
> SBD wrote:
>> Sanny wrote:
>>> It was a wonderful day for me today, as we found a good technique to
>>> increase the Game Speed. Now the Game Plays in Advertised Time.
>> In my country there is problem,
>> and that problem is Sanny.
>>
>> He have a game that play badly,
>> but he always disagree.
>>
>> He say he give money to winner,
>> but he never give it out.
>>
>> He no improve program without more money,
>> he is a great big lout.
>>
>> Game always play slow,
>> because chess moves are too beeg,
>>
>> Throw the game down the well,
>> so chessplayers can be free.
>>
>> Grab it by the horns,
>> and we have a beeg partee.
>
>
> Nice Joke or a Nice Poem but it was a good Start..
>
> TRUTH is now the Game plays very fast and well.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
>

That has not been my experience.

--
Kenneth Sloan [email protected]
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/

Date: 12 Nov 2006 00:02:34
From: SBD
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

Sanny wrote:
> It was a wonderful day for me today, as we found a good technique to
> increase the Game Speed. Now the Game Plays in Advertised Time.

In my country there is problem,
and that problem is Sanny.

He have a game that play badly,
but he always disagree.

He say he give money to winner,
but he never give it out.

He no improve program without more money,
he is a great big lout.

Game always play slow,
because chess moves are too beeg,

Throw the game down the well,
so chessplayers can be free.

Grab it by the horns,
and we have a beeg partee.

Date: 11 Nov 2006 23:11:51
From: Sanny
Subject: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

It was a wonderful day for me today, as we found a good technique to
increase the Game Speed. Now the Game Plays in Advertised Time.

Beginner Level: 10-20 seconds
Easy Level: 30- 40 seconds
Normal Level: 1-2 minutes.

Play a game at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

It gives me a good relief that now the Game is playing not only strong
but also quite faster than it used to be.

So Now, I feel you can play higher level also.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

Date: 12 Nov 2006 12:32:36
From: Kenneth Sloan
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

Sanny wrote:
> It was a wonderful day for me today, as we found a good technique to
> increase the Game Speed. Now the Game Plays in Advertised Time.
>
> Beginner Level: 10-20 seconds

Nope. I just played a game at Beginner level. Move times in the
middlegame averaged 5 minutes per move.

It always amazes me when people make false claims that are so easily
checked.

I'll believe the advertised times when you add a CLOCK to the display,
and forfeit a player (computer or human) when the time limit is reached.

--
Kenneth Sloan [email protected]
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/

Date: 12 Nov 2006 09:03:20
From: Chris F.A. Johnson
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

On 2006-11-12, Sanny wrote:
>
> It was a wonderful day for me today, as we found a good technique to
> increase the Game Speed. Now the Game Plays in Advertised Time.
>
> Beginner Level: 10-20 seconds
> Easy Level: 30- 40 seconds
> Normal Level: 1-2 minutes.

I have been playing a game at normal level for two or three days!
Most of the moves have taken well over an hour. Some much longer.

A few times I have reloaded the page or restarted the browser (once
after about a 6-hour wait for a move) and it has move almost
immediately on restarting. This does not always work.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org >
===================================================================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Date: 12 Nov 2006 09:50:48
From: Dave (from the UK)
Subject: Re: GAME Speed Dramatically Improved.

Sanny wrote:
> It was a wonderful day for me today, as we found a good technique to
> increase the Game Speed. Now the Game Plays in Advertised Time.

Sanny, was there any point in you advertising speeds it never did? To
say it "Now the game plays in advertised times" implies you know fully
well it did not play in the times you advertised. So why advertise those
times?

It's much the same with the prizes you aware. You quote prizes in $, but
really the prizes allow those that win them to play extra games for
free. Nothing more, nothing less. So why not say your prizes are 100
extra games, 1000 extra games, or whatever the case might be?

ICC has prizes which are sometimes real cash (so they quote in $'s) and
are sometimes extensions to ICC membership. In the latter case they are
quoted as membership extensions and not in $.

You would do a lot better to be honest about your prizes and times to move.

--
Dave (from the UK)

Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
It is always of the form: [email protected]
Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

http://witm.sourceforge.net/ (Web based Mathematica front end)