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Date: 03 Mar 2008 06:17:30
From: KPR
Subject: My Levitt IQ is 45
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"In 1988, British Grandmaster Jon Levitt came up with the Levitt equation.
His equation says that a player with an IQ of Y, after many years of
tournament play and study, would tend to have a chess Elo rating of about
10Y + 1000. So if Fischer's IQ was 180, then his Elo rating would be 10x180
+ 1000 or 2800. Fischer's Elo rating was 2785. His maximum USCF rating was
2825. "
My chess rating is 1450 (Freechess.org blitz rating). So, my IQ is 45.
(45x10+1000=1450). My blitz rating though is an average blitz rating, but
many lower ratings are still on the way. It could be accurate.
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Date: 19 Mar 2008 17:11:30
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Fischer's IQ (was: My Levitt IQ is 45)
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On 19, 9:40 am, [email protected] wrote:
> > The number given for BobbyFischer's IQ has
> > only an unsupported anecdote as its source;
> > after years of asking for substantiation of this
> > claim, I have yet to see anything whatsoever
> > beyond "that guy said so".
>
> This subject came up yesterday in Edward Winter's "Chess Notes"
> column (see CN#5471, a bit down from the top of this link:http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/index.html#5469._What). Winter
> reports:
>
> At present, the best we can offer is the following passage from page
> 22 of Profile of a Prodigy by Frank Brady (New York, 1973):
>
> 'Recently, I spoke to a professor who used to work in the Grade
> Advisor's Office at Erasmus Hall while Bobby was a student there.
>
> "His IQ was in the 180s", he said. "Give or take a point or two. He
> was definitely a 'high' genius, but with no interest or capacity for
> schoolwork."'
Exactly. This guy said so, according to
Frank Brady-- a very pro-Fischer writer.
When I read about IQ tests, they suggest
that the kind given to the general public, as
here at a high school, are *not* designed
to measure the intelligence of exceptional
people, but rather a more limited range.
I expect members of Mensa, for instance,
to claim that only /their/ tests can be relied
upon to determine if someone is a "high
genius" or not; such tests ignore the little
people, and attempt to sort out the st
from the very, very st folks. No test at
a public high school would be designed to
sort out the super-geniuses from the dolts.
The lack of any substantive evidence, in
conjunction with tossing out a number
like "the 180s", which is high even for
those tests which allow for such a score,
render the anecdote as rather dubious.
Look at the comment above: "no interest
or capacity for schoolwork"; in my
experience of these tests, school work is
/precisely/ what is being measured-- not
"intelligence", as I understand the word.
Apart from logical thinking skills, every
question amounts to "have you been
taught this or that fact in school?" So
obviously, if BF indeed had no interest or
capacity for such work, his score on a
normal IQ test would be poor, despite a
great /capacity/ for other types of
learning.
I'm not saying that Bobby Fischer was
stupid, or even not-st; what I'm saying
is the anecdote is unconvincing, and it
appears to contain self-contradiction, in
addition to its evident lack of any
documentation or substantiation from
any other source.
Additionally, an IQ score is calculated
as a /quotient/, with age as a crucial
factor. Suppose that the guy was dead
wrong, and that BF learned everything he
knew at Erasmus High School, before
dropping out to just play chess. His IQ
could conceivably drop as he got older,
since he was studying a subject which
was not on any IQ test: chess. As best
I can recall, every single question at
Tickle.com, for instance, was one that
had nothing whatever to do with chess,
but instead, facts and vocabulary and
other knowledge I learned while *in*
school [or from Wikipedia.com ; >D].
-- help bot
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Date: 19 Mar 2008 06:40:50
From:
Subject: Fischer's IQ (was: My Levitt IQ is 45)
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On 3, 3:29 pm, help bot <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> The number given for BobbyFischer's IQ has
> only an unsupported anecdote as its source;
> after years of asking for substantiation of this
> claim, I have yet to see anything whatsoever
> beyond "that guy said so".
This subject came up yesterday in Edward Winter's "Chess Notes"
column (see CN#5471, a bit down from the top of this link:
http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/index.html#5469._What). Winter
reports:
At present, the best we can offer is the following passage from page
22 of Profile of a Prodigy by Frank Brady (New York, 1973):
'Recently, I spoke to a professor who used to work in the Grade
Advisor's Office at Erasmus Hall while Bobby was a student there.
"His IQ was in the 180s", he said. "Give or take a point or two. He
was definitely a 'high' genius, but with no interest or capacity for
schoolwork."'
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Date: 04 Mar 2008 06:53:25
From: help bot
Subject: Re: My Levitt IQ is 45
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On 4, 8:51 am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> > > > Sanny - which federation rates you at 1100?
>
> > > People on this newsgroup told me I am 1100 Rated after seeing my game
> > > at GetClub, Earlier I used to think I am 1200.
>
> > Their estimation of your rating was kind to the extrene. I don't think
> > you could make 600 in a rated tournament.- Hide quoted text -
>
> At GetClub a strange thing has happened.
>
> Beginner: 990 Rating
> Easy: 750 Rating
> Normal: 375 Rating
> Master: 400 Rating
>
> So the Higher Levels are much lower rating than Easy Levels.
>
> As Zebediah beat the Higher Levels so badly that they went down. And
> after improvement everyone is playing Beginner/ Easy and loosing to it
> So Beginner & Easy are gaining points and Higher Levels are having
> ratings as low as 300-400.
Sanny, you could reduce this discrepancy
by simply playing the levels against one another
now and then, so that (presumably) the higher
ones would beat the lower ones and their GC
ratings would converge.
One caveat however: human players might be
inclined to take their games against the slower
levels more seriously, and so play stronger
against them than what I have called "offhand"
style games against the Beginner level. Look
at the move times, for instance, and you will
probably find that human players are moving
much more rapidly against Beginner and Easy
than against Master and Advance levels.
-- help bot
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Date: 04 Mar 2008 05:51:09
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: My Levitt IQ is 45
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> > > Sanny - which federation rates you at 1100?
>
> > People on this newsgroup told me I am 1100 Rated after seeing my game
> > at GetClub, Earlier I used to think I am 1200.
>
> Their estimation of your rating was kind to the extrene. I don't think
> you could make 600 in a rated tournament.- Hide quoted text -
At GetClub a strange thing has happened.
Beginner: 990 Rating
Easy: 750 Rating
Normal: 375 Rating
Master: 400 Rating
So the Higher Levels are much lower rating than Easy Levels.
As Zebediah beat the Higher Levels so badly that they went down. And
after improvement everyone is playing Beginner/ Easy and loosing to it
So Beginner & Easy are gaining points and Higher Levels are having
ratings as low as 300-400.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 04 Mar 2008 18:36:31
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: My Levitt IQ is 45
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Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> At GetClub a strange thing has happened.
>
> Beginner: 990 Rating
> Easy: 750 Rating
> Normal: 375 Rating
> Master: 400 Rating
>
> So the Higher Levels are much lower rating than Easy Levels.
That's because, as far as I can see, your rating system is something
you made up yourself rather than a system that's actually been shown
to work.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Edible Crystal Atlas (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a map of the world but it's completely
transparent and you can eat it!
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Date: 04 Mar 2008 04:47:05
From: SBD
Subject: Re: My Levitt IQ is 45
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On 4, 2:35=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> On 4, 4:53=A0am, SBD <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 3, 2:00=A0pm, SBD <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On 3, 11:48=A0am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > My IQ was 120 So Max rating I can get is 2200 But I am only 1100 Rat=
ed
> > > > Player. May be if I try more I can have a rating of 2200.
>
> > > Yes 10-15 years of dedicated study (4-5 hours per day) and tournament
> > > play should do it.
>
> > Sanny - which federation rates you at 1100?
>
> People on this newsgroup told me I am 1100 Rated after seeing my game
> at GetClub, Earlier I used to think I am 1200.
>
> Bye
> Sanny
Their estimation of your rating was kind to the extrene. I don't think
you could make 600 in a rated tournament.
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Date: 04 Mar 2008 00:35:09
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: My Levitt IQ is 45
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On 4, 4:53=A0am, SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> On 3, 2:00=A0pm, SBD <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 3, 11:48=A0am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > My IQ was 120 So Max rating I can get is 2200 But I am only 1100 Rated=
> > > Player. May be if I try more I can have a rating of 2200.
>
> > Yes 10-15 years of dedicated study (4-5 hours per day) and tournament
> > play should do it.
>
> Sanny - which federation rates you at 1100?
People on this newsgroup told me I am 1100 Rated after seeing my game
at GetClub, Earlier I used to think I am 1200.
Bye
Sanny
Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
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Date: 03 Mar 2008 15:53:28
From: SBD
Subject: Re: My Levitt IQ is 45
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On 3, 2:00=A0pm, SBD <[email protected] > wrote:
> On 3, 11:48=A0am, Sanny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > My IQ was 120 So Max rating I can get is 2200 But I am only 1100 Rated
> > Player. May be if I try more I can have a rating of 2200.
>
> Yes 10-15 years of dedicated study (4-5 hours per day) and tournament
> play should do it.
Sanny - which federation rates you at 1100?
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Date: 03 Mar 2008 12:00:28
From: SBD
Subject: Re: My Levitt IQ is 45
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On 3, 11:48=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote:
> My IQ was 120 So Max rating I can get is 2200 But I am only 1100 Rated
> Player. May be if I try more I can have a rating of 2200.
Yes 10-15 years of dedicated study (4-5 hours per day) and tournament
play should do it.
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Date: 03 Mar 2008 11:29:52
From: help bot
Subject: Re: My Levitt IQ is 45
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On 2, 11:17 pm, "KPR" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "In 1988, British Grandmaster Jon Levitt came up with the Levitt equation.
> His equation says that a player with an IQ of Y, after many years of
> tournament play and study, would tend to have a chess Elo rating of about
> 10Y + 1000. So if Fischer's IQ was 180, then his Elo rating would be 10x180
> + 1000 or 2800. Fischer's Elo rating was 2785. His maximum USCF rating was
> 2825. "
The number given for Bobby Fischer's IQ has
only an unsupported anecdote as its source;
after years of asking for substantiation of this
claim, I have yet to see anything whatsoever
beyond "that guy said so".
In addition, that number would have been the
score earned before dropping out of high school,
while the FIDE and USCF ratings listed above
are *peak* numbers from many years later. FYI:
one's IQ scores can vary significantly over time,
especially if one shuts oneself off from the world,
studying tiddlywinks (or chess).
In my limited experience with IQ tests, they
seemed to be an attempt to estimate one's
*knowledge* of things taught in schools, not
one's intelligence /per se/. For instance, two
identical twins could be separated, with one
being taught lots of words and then given the
IQ test, presumably scoring well in vocabulary,
while the other could be deprived of this until
right *after* the test, on which he presumably
would score relatively poorly in vocabulary.
Afterwards, we could have two nearly-
identical intellects, but the test scores would
indicate that one of these two could not attain
as high a chess rating as the other. I think
this indicates that IQ scores are not at all the
same as "intelligence", as the word is most
commonly understood. Perhaps it would be
an improvement to change the letters to "EQ",
or education quotient... .
-- help bot
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Date: 03 Mar 2008 09:48:55
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: My Levitt IQ is 45
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On 3, 5:26=A0pm, David Richerby <[email protected] >
wrote:
> KPR <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "In 1988, British Grandmaster Jon Levitt came up with the Levitt
> > equation. =A0His equation says that a player with an IQ of Y, after
> > many years of tournament play and study, would tend to have a chess
> > Elo rating of about 10Y + 1000. So if Fischer's IQ was 180, then his
> > Elo rating would be 10x180 + 1000 or 2800. Fischer's Elo rating was
> > 2785. His maximum USCF rating was 2825. "
>
> > My chess rating is 1450 (Freechess.org blitz rating). So, my IQ is
> > 45. =A0(45x10+1000=3D1450). My blitz rating though is an average blitz
> > rating, but many lower ratings are still on the way. It could be
> > accurate.
>
> `Many years of tournament play and study' is in no way the same thing
> as playing a few blitz games online. =A0Levitt is trying to estimate
> your potential maximum rating if you worked hard enough. =A0In other
> words, he's saying that most people's chess rating is *at most*
> 10xIQ+1000; the converse is that most people's IQ is *at least*
> (rating-1000)/10. =A0It's a fair bet that your IQ is at least 45.
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
=A0Electronic Sword (TM): it's likewww.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/=A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 a razor-sharp blade but it uses
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 electricity!
My IQ was 120 So Max rating I can get is 2200 But I am only 1100 Rated
Player. May be if I try more I can have a rating of 2200.
Bye
Sanny
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Date: 03 Mar 2008 12:26:40
From: David Richerby
Subject: Re: My Levitt IQ is 45
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KPR <[email protected] > wrote:
> "In 1988, British Grandmaster Jon Levitt came up with the Levitt
> equation. His equation says that a player with an IQ of Y, after
> many years of tournament play and study, would tend to have a chess
> Elo rating of about 10Y + 1000. So if Fischer's IQ was 180, then his
> Elo rating would be 10x180 + 1000 or 2800. Fischer's Elo rating was
> 2785. His maximum USCF rating was 2825. "
>
> My chess rating is 1450 (Freechess.org blitz rating). So, my IQ is
> 45. (45x10+1000=1450). My blitz rating though is an average blitz
> rating, but many lower ratings are still on the way. It could be
> accurate.
`Many years of tournament play and study' is in no way the same thing
as playing a few blitz games online. Levitt is trying to estimate
your potential maximum rating if you worked hard enough. In other
words, he's saying that most people's chess rating is *at most*
10xIQ+1000; the converse is that most people's IQ is *at least*
(rating-1000)/10. It's a fair bet that your IQ is at least 45.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Electronic Sword (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a razor-sharp blade but it uses
electricity!
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