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Date: 28 Aug 2008 01:12:44
From: Sanny
Subject: Please Analyze game between Beginner & Jester

GetClub was twice improved today still it lost to Jester. Jester found a Mate in 8 and win the game. I could not find any wrong move by GetClub but still it lost the game. Can you spot the wrong moves? Game Played between sanjay11 and beginner at GetClub.com  Jester: (White) beginner: (Black) Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM25519&game=Chess  White  Black (Jester)  (beginner) 1. e2e4{8} e7e6{0} 2. d2d4{6} d7d5{0} 3. Nb1c3{10} Bf8b4{0} 4. e4e5{6} c7c5{0} 5. a2a3{6} Bb4c3{10} 6. b2c3{12} Nb8c6{42} 7. Bf1b5{14} c5c4{44} 8. Qd1g4{16} g7g6{24} 9. Bc1g5{12} Qd8b6{12} 10. Bb5c6{12} Qb6c6{12} 11. Qg4f3{14} Bc8d7{10} 12. Bg5f6{16} Ng8f6{6} 13. Qf3f6{12} Ke8g8{10} 14. Ra1b1{14} Qc6a4{30} 15. Ke1d2{18} b7b5{10} 16. Rb1a1{14} Rf8e8{26} 17. Ng1f3{14} h7h6{26} 18. h2h4{14} Re8d8{38} 19. h4h5{14} g6h5{32} 20. Qf6h6{14} Qa4a5{20} 21. Nf3g5{18} Qa5c3{2} 22. Kd2c3{14} b5b4{0} 23. a3b4{8} Bd7a4{2}  Jester: (White) beginner: (Black) Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=DM25519&game=Chess The Score was +ve for GetClub at most of the time but suddenly Jester advanced its pawn towards the king and get 1 pawn up. And the King got trapped. Can you find which move of GetClub is wrong? Bye Sanny Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html



Date: 28 Aug 2008 23:21:16
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Please Analyze game between Beginner & Jester

On Aug 29, 12:34=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote: > > > 1. e2e4{8} e7e6{0} > > > 2. d2d4{6} d7d5{0} > > > 3. Nb1c3{10} Bf8b4{0} > > > 4. e4e5{6} c7c5{0} > > > 5. a2a3{6} Bb4c3{10} > > > 6. b2c3{12} Nb8c6{42} > > > 7. Bf1b5{14} c5c4{44} > > > 8. Qd1g4{16} g7g6{24} > > > =A0 This move needlessly weakens the dark > > squares (i.e. f6). =A0Believe it or not, in some > > positions like this Black is better off playing > > ...Kf8. > > Only 2 correct moves else the f7 pawn will get killed. > > 8.... g6 (Weakens f6 square?) > 8..... Kf8 (stops King Chastling?) > > Which is bigger error weak square or stopping the Chastling? Excellent question. But first, let's back up to move seven; ...c4 was a horrible move, and this is why the question of "what to do after Qg4" comes up. Now, which is worse: the darksquare weakening of ...g6, or the inability to castle after ...Kf8? That's a tough one. It seems to me that both cases give White a huge advantage, so it boils down to a question of who is doing the attacking, and who the defending? > How much penalty should be given for a weak square? Why not try a very small penalty, and if it needs enlargement, you can make the adjustment later. OTOH, if you make the adjustment too big, people will beat Get Club like carrots, and you won't even know why. Tactics always take precedence. > > > 9. Bc1g5{12} Qd8b6{12} > > > 10. Bb5c6{12} Qb6c6{12} > > > 11. Qg4f3{14} Bc8d7{10} > > > 12. Bg5f6{16} Ng8f6{6} > > > 13. Qf3f6{12} Ke8g8{10} > > > =A0 Without sight of the board I can tell you > > that this is suicidal; there are no defenders > > of the Kingside dark squares, thus it is > > just about time to call for the coroner and > > pick out a casket. > > If it Chastle to other side the Pawn f7 would be killed. Castling to the other side is illegal, because you can't legally move the King "through check" (across any attacked square). An alternative to castling Kingside would be the legal move ...Rg8. > And if it saves f7 with Rook then Queen will go to g7 attacking the a7 > pawn. > > So it Chastled on king side. This is okay, so long as Black immediately exchanges Queens via ...Qc7d8, but White need not cooperate. As we saw, Black was quite unaware of the looming danger to his King. > > > 14. Ra1b1{14} Qc6a4{30} > > > =A0 Excellent positional move! =A0White's Queen > > side is boxed up, and were it not for the > > minor detail of getting checkmated, Black > > would perhaps be in swell shape. > > So thats a good move. No. Black is getting mauled here. The pawns on the other wing are largely irrelevant a mere distraction from the real issue. However, the maneuver ...Qa4xa3e7 could work out okay, if White attacks very slowly, having no clue what he's doing. Have a look at 16. ...b4!, where Black at least attempts to fight back.  help bot


Date: 28 Aug 2008 22:03:14
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please Analyze game between Beginner & Jester

> =A0 Sanny, I would suggest you simply remove > this opening fromGetClub'sarsenal. =A0The > program should attempt to avoid closed > positions, and instead focus on playing the > more open ones. Instead of removing this opening I have added 6...Ne7 as you suggested. > =A0 But for the record, the move 6. ...Ne7 > would have avoided the ...g6/...Kf8 dilemma > which occurs after White plays Qg4. =A0Black > can then sacrifice the g7pawn and the h7 > pawn as well (after ...Rg8, chasing White's > Queen). =A0White, of course, is not obligated > to play Qg4 in this case. After 6...Ne7 Black can Chastle 00 when Queen comes to g4. Great Analysis. Now it would be very difficult to win Beginner Level. Bye Sanny Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


Date: 28 Aug 2008 21:34:50
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please Analyze game between Beginner & Jester

> > 1. e2e4{8} e7e6{0} > > 2. d2d4{6} d7d5{0} > > 3. Nb1c3{10} Bf8b4{0} > > 4. e4e5{6} c7c5{0} > > 5. a2a3{6} Bb4c3{10} > > 6. b2c3{12} Nb8c6{42} > > 7. Bf1b5{14} c5c4{44} > > 8. Qd1g4{16} g7g6{24} > > =A0 This move needlessly weakens the dark > squares (i.e. f6). =A0Believe it or not, in some > positions like this Black is better off playing > ...Kf8. Only 2 correct moves else the f7 pawn will get killed. 8.... g6 (Weakens f6 square?) 8..... Kf8 (stops King Chastling?) Which is bigger error weak square or stopping the Chastling? How much penalty should be given for a weak square? > > 9. Bc1g5{12} Qd8b6{12} > > 10. Bb5c6{12} Qb6c6{12} > > 11. Qg4f3{14} Bc8d7{10} > > 12. Bg5f6{16} Ng8f6{6} > > 13. Qf3f6{12} Ke8g8{10} > > =A0 Without sight of the board I can tell you > that this is suicidal; there are no defenders > of the Kingside dark squares, thus it is > just about time to call for the coroner and > pick out a casket. If it Chastle to other side the Pawn f7 would be killed. And if it saves f7 with Rook then Queen will go to g7 attacking the a7 pawn. So it Chastled on king side. > > 14. Ra1b1{14} Qc6a4{30} > > =A0 Excellent positional move! =A0White's Queen > side is boxed up, and were it not for the > minor detail of getting checkmated, Black > would perhaps be in swell shape. So thats a good move. Bye Sanny Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


Date: 28 Aug 2008 21:22:38
From: Sanny
Subject: Re: Please Analyze game between Beginner & Jester

> > Can you spot the wrong moves? > > =A0 Okay, bear with me I am going to try to > spot errors without looking at a chessboard! Here is the animated Board for your analysis. http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?id=3DDM25519&game=3DChess Bye Sanny Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


Date: 28 Aug 2008 19:12:43
From: help bot
Subject: Re: Please Analyze game between Beginner & Jester

On Aug 28, 4:12=A0am, Sanny <[email protected] > wrote: > GetClub was twice improved today still it lost to Jester. You clearly need to increase the rate of "improvement" by a factor of xsquared minus ytothenth power, squarerooted, over z cubed plus the speed of light in a Hoover vacuum times the TKfactor. > Jester found a Mate in 8 and win the game. > > I could not find any wrong move by GetClub but still it lost the game. > > Can you spot the wrong moves? Okay, bear with me I am going to try to spot errors without looking at a chessboard! > White  Black > (Jester)  (beginner) > > 1. e2e4{8} e7e6{0} > 2. d2d4{6} d7d5{0} > 3. Nb1c3{10} Bf8b4{0} > 4. e4e5{6} c7c5{0} > 5. a2a3{6} Bb4c3{10} > 6. b2c3{12} Nb8c6{42} > 7. Bf1b5{14} c5c4{44} > 8. Qd1g4{16} g7g6{24} This move needlessly weakens the dark squares (i.e. f6). Believe it or not, in some positions like this Black is better off playing ...Kf8. > 9. Bc1g5{12} Qd8b6{12} > 10. Bb5c6{12} Qb6c6{12} > 11. Qg4f3{14} Bc8d7{10} > 12. Bg5f6{16} Ng8f6{6} > 13. Qf3f6{12} Ke8g8{10} Without sight of the board I can tell you that this is suicidal; there are no defenders of the Kingside dark squares, thus it is just about time to call for the coroner and pick out a casket. > 14. Ra1b1{14} Qc6a4{30} Excellent positional move! White's Queen side is boxed up, and were it not for the minor detail of getting checkmated, Black would perhaps be in swell shape. > 15. Ke1d2{18} b7b5{10} > 16. Rb1a1{14} Rf8e8{26} > 17. Ng1f3{14} h7h6{26} > 18. h2h4{14} Hmm. Blindfolded, I cannot calculate, but I "smell" a mateinten. > ... Re8d8{38} > 19. h4h5{14} g6h5{32} > 20. Qf6h6{14} Qa4a5{20} > 21. Nf3g5{18} Qa5c3{2} Excellent counter! Always keep 'em on the defensive. > 22. Kd2c3{14} b5b4{0} > 23. a3b4{8} Bd7a4{2} Sanny, I would suggest you simply remove this opening from GetClub's arsenal. The program should attempt to avoid closed positions, and instead focus on playing the more open ones. But for the record, the move 6. ...Ne7 would have avoided the ...g6/...Kf8 dilemma which occurs after White plays Qg4. Black can then sacrifice the g7pawn and the h7 pawn as well (after ...Rg8, chasing White's Queen). White, of course, is not obligated to play Qg4 in this case. Another idea would be to completely ignore the misplaced Bishop on b5, and complete development. For instance: 7. ... Ne7 8. Qg4 OO 9. Bh6 Ng6 Again, White is in no way obligated to play Qg4 in this line.  help bot

